Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:21
Adam Denley
The city and the territory have made a lot of talk about how they want to find ways to decarbonize and, you know, reduce their economic arms and things like that. And, and but what we're we're still sort of continuing these same sort of patterns that are leading people to think that the only viable option for travel around the city, is to use a car.

00:00:21:24 - 00:00:24:07
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah.

00:00:24:09 - 00:00:28:14
Becca Denley
I like how you use you often coined the term a. It's overkill.

00:00:28:16 - 00:00:29:07
Adam Denley
Yeah, yeah.

00:00:29:11 - 00:00:47:20
Becca Denley
So, you know, typically you said a kilometer is but typically your, your distances are two kilometers or a kilometer to get somewhere. But the default is get in my car, go to do the thing and come back again. And it can change if, if we only had the proper infrastructure.

00:00:47:22 - 00:01:13:23
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Adam and Becca Denley, from Yellowknife up in the Northwest Territories of Canada. We are going to be talking about, their initiative to get more people writing more often way up there in the great White North. Let's get right to it with Adam and Becca.

00:01:13:25 - 00:01:18:06
John Simmerman
Becca and Adam, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:18:09 - 00:01:18:23
Adam Denley
Hey, John.

00:01:18:26 - 00:01:20:21
Becca Denley
Thanks for having us.

00:01:20:23 - 00:01:27:02
John Simmerman
I love giving my guests an opportunity to introduce themselves. So, who the heck is Becca and Adam?

00:01:27:05 - 00:01:46:10
Becca Denley
Well, I guess I'll start and start with Becca. So, my name is Becca Donnelly, and I live in Yellowknife, northwest Territories, and I'm the program creator of shift, NWT, which is a bike share program that started up this past summer. And I'm an architect by trade.

00:01:46:13 - 00:01:47:05
John Simmerman
Okay.

00:01:47:08 - 00:02:18:12
Adam Denley
Yeah. Adam. And, I'm Adam. I, I'm a bush pilot by profession, which means that I sort of specialize in flying to places that don't have runways or on floats in the summer and on skis in the winter and on, you know, big balloon tires. At other times. And, and, you know, we both get involved in this, like, advocacy space, after, I took a job in Denmark for, just a little under three years and saw what they've done with their infrastructure over there.

00:02:18:12 - 00:02:23:06
Adam Denley
And, and then we became kind of annoyed that we didn't have that over here.

00:02:23:06 - 00:02:25:15
Becca Denley
So,

00:02:25:17 - 00:02:27:22
Adam Denley
We've become active in that space.

00:02:27:25 - 00:02:58:21
John Simmerman
That's fascinating. Yeah. It's amazing how many stories, include, like a trip somewhere else. You know, you mentioned Denmark or some people say. Oh, yeah, we, I had an opportunity to do, like, an exchange program in, in, the Netherlands or we visited there and, you know, it had a major influence and impact on what was it about being in Denmark that really just kind of said, wait a minute, we could do this in Yellowknife as well.

00:02:58:26 - 00:03:03:16
John Simmerman
And oh, by the way, let's let's pull this up your way.

00:03:03:19 - 00:03:06:25
Becca Denley
There, there. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I see where.

00:03:06:25 - 00:03:25:14
John Simmerman
I am way down here. I'm almost as far south as you can get. You know, it's it's pretty far down there. But, yeah, I was like, wait a minute. Yellowknife. Where is Yellowknife? Oh, m g yeah, that is amazing.

00:03:25:16 - 00:03:43:14
Adam Denley
Yeah. Wow. Well, we kind of realized that, like, my daily commute while we were in Denmark was about 30 minutes by bike. You know, it was. We lived sort of at the top of the hill. So it was kind of 20 minutes on the way to work and 30 minutes on the way back. And, that amounted to, I can't remember if it was 5 or 8km.

00:03:43:16 - 00:03:44:09
Becca Denley
I think about eight.

00:03:44:09 - 00:04:08:10
Adam Denley
It might have been eight. Yeah. Well, the entire city of Yellowknife, is only about eight kilometers from sort of stem to stern. So we figured if if I can do that, you know, if I can easily make that can move there, why can't we do it in the city? And I, I had, you know, spent time biking before in your life and I found the whole thing frustrating and, and I thought, okay, so obviously the problem isn't quite right.

00:04:08:10 - 00:04:18:23
Adam Denley
So, so so what is the problem? Right. And we, we just kind of figure there's really no reason that we shouldn't be able to, to live the same lifestyle when we come back to your life.

00:04:18:25 - 00:04:33:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I guess my question is, since the distances are relatively small within the village, within the city, eight kilometers. It's. What is the problem? You just mentioned it.

00:04:33:25 - 00:04:56:12
Becca Denley
Infrastructure? Yeah, that's the base of it. There's a lot, as you can see from this, this photo, this is from the critical mass bike ride that we did in April on Earth Day. 110 of us, I think, was about that. Rode our bikes across town. And I mean, to get from this, from the two locations, it was about three kilometers.

00:04:56:13 - 00:05:16:27
Becca Denley
Yeah, that was wasn't it? Was an enjoyable ride. You can see we're all bundled up. There was still snow on the ground at this point. So cold. Cold is never the issue with biking. You can always dress for the weather. The issue is, where do we bike? You see little kids here? Of course. This is a critical mass bike ride.

00:05:16:27 - 00:05:28:15
Becca Denley
Everyone's out together. So we took up a whole lane of of driving, a whole car laying, if you will, and, and we had a great time, biking in City Hall.

00:05:28:17 - 00:05:48:15
Adam Denley
Yeah. I mean, like, like most cities in North America, we have kind of unnecessarily wide roads which should give should give space for a cyclist. But first of all, it's still unpleasant because there's traffic maneuvering around you. But also in the winter, there's snow maintenance which we can attend on later is pretty poor. So that available space really shrinks.

00:05:48:17 - 00:06:10:05
Adam Denley
And then, they don't salt the roads up here. They just lay down brick because quite a for a lot of the winter, it's sort of too cold for salt work anyways. But what that means is that in the spring, there's a lot of gravel and dust in the air. That tends to persist for a long time before enough, you know, they wait until the last snowfall is finished before they actually clean it up.

00:06:10:07 - 00:06:30:07
Adam Denley
So in the meantime, the edges of the roads are all full of gravel and dust. And, you know, you're it's you can feel it in your teeth and, you know, it's actually it's a problem for people who have respiratory condition. So there are big stretches where traveling by bike is unpleasant. Just because of the road conditions available to us.

00:06:30:09 - 00:06:49:25
Becca Denley
We also have very, very large trucks here. Yeah, lots of them. So riding on in the summertime, we like to ride on the street. If you do it on the street all winter as well. But it's quite scary, being out there. So when I ask other parents, like, why aren't you biking your kids to school?

00:06:49:28 - 00:06:55:28
Becca Denley
They look at me like I'm crazy because they're too afraid, and we want to change that.

00:06:56:00 - 00:07:10:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. You sure do. You do want to change that. And, and here's, a little, snapshot of, the healthy choices award, going to you back, to try to help decrease some of those barriers. Talk a little bit about this.

00:07:10:23 - 00:07:34:00
Becca Denley
Yeah. It was it's a great program, the Healthy Choices Fund, from the government of the Northwest Territories. And they're looking for programs that get people active. And. Well, we wanted to, to create a program that allowed people to test out different types of bikes, because now we have e-bikes, we have cargo bikes. We sell a lot of those in Denmark, and they're amazing.

00:07:34:02 - 00:08:01:22
Becca Denley
And they're game changers. And in getting around, so we put a put together a program that has upright city bikes, e-bikes, e cargo bikes and trikes, because maybe you have issues with, balance, but you really want to try changing how you get around in your everyday. And that was the key point of this program, is it's not providing people with a way to just borrow a bike for a day.

00:08:01:24 - 00:08:20:11
Becca Denley
It was really about creating an opportunity for someone to borrow a bike for two weeks at a time. So, people come on the day that they pick up their bike, we introduce how to take care of your bike, the locking system. How to if you're new to an e-bike, how to how to use it, how to charge your bike battery.

00:08:20:11 - 00:08:42:19
Becca Denley
And then for two weeks, people bring that up, bike home and use it as their main form of transportation. And, and we found that the program was quite a success. People love being able to to get their kids in a cargo bike and go, do you drop off in the morning was so much fun. So that that was the one that was booked up all the time.

00:08:42:19 - 00:08:50:10
Becca Denley
We had a waitlist and many people couldn't get on the on the program this summer. So, next summer we hope to run it again.

00:08:50:13 - 00:08:55:05
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, you mentioned winter.

00:08:55:07 - 00:08:56:10
Becca Denley
Yeah.

00:08:56:13 - 00:09:27:19
John Simmerman
And the great thing about spending time in Denmark is especially if you're there in the the colder winter months, you get to experience winter and you get to experience the fact that people ride there all year round, regardless of the weather. And it also reminds me to this, this image here reminds me of, Oulu, Finland, which I would say is one of the great winter cycling, capitals, that we have worldwide.

00:09:27:22 - 00:10:02:27
John Simmerman
And it also provides, I think, an interesting reframing of how cities, remote cities and cities in colder areas can, can, can actually find a path forward. Pardon the pun, you know, a path forward. And they actually use they're very suburban in context. They're in old Finland and they use an entire network of pathways and trails, that, that get people riding, and walking away from the motor vehicles.

00:10:02:29 - 00:10:24:15
Adam Denley
Yeah. And they, they're, they're not doing anything surprising there. Right. Like, yeah. All they're doing is they have, strict standards in place and they, they contract out the snow clearing. And, the contractors have big incentives to make sure that they abide by the, the standards and big penalties if they don't. So that's it. There's no, there's no sort of surprising secret.

00:10:24:20 - 00:10:41:09
Adam Denley
This, this photo was taken on them. There's a trail called the Frame Lake Trail with the frame lake is kind of the, the the lake at the center of the city. And, and there's a big, multi-use trail that follows one side of the lake, and it connects you from the downtown to the end of town where we live.

00:10:41:12 - 00:11:07:27
Adam Denley
And this year it's been really nicely, reliably cleared of snow. I mean, it's not the folks in all the luxury wouldn't be satisfied, but but for us, it's, it's excellent. It's totally usable, and it's been reliable. So it's funny, like, the problem for us is actually getting on to the most used trail, because the sidewalks and the roads and the intersections approaching it are are, you know, a hazard, and a challenge.

00:11:07:27 - 00:11:29:02
Adam Denley
And then once you get on the trail, it's, you know, you're you're on easy street. Yeah. And all all last winter, I've. I rode my bike pretty well all winter. We only arrived in the back in North America in December of last year. And, and when I, when I came back, I learned that my driver's license expired, so I had to kind of start all over again.

00:11:29:05 - 00:11:48:11
Adam Denley
You know, for, for, for about a month that I could only drive if Becca was there to supervise me because. Because her license had not expired. So, so as I rode my bike to work all the time and I. The coldest I think I ever wrote, it was about -36 Celsius, which is, I don't know, -30 or so Fahrenheit.

00:11:48:13 - 00:12:07:18
Adam Denley
And, and, yeah, I was shocked to find out that the problem wasn't me. The problem was that, you know, the grease on all the bike components starts to kind of hard enough. But, but, yeah, my my personal comfort was not the issue. And, and so the issue becomes the availability of safe transit corridors.

00:12:07:20 - 00:12:32:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. And it's interesting to, when I interviewed Pekka to Kola there in Oslo, we talked a little bit about the fact that it's it's not this battle that they do to try to remove all the snow as much as ensuring that things are conditions are cold enough so that they can condition the snow. And so their their equipment is a little different.

00:12:32:13 - 00:12:56:29
John Simmerman
It's not scraping it all off all the time, continually doing a battle. It's it's conditioning it, you know, kind of giving it a texture and making it grippy so that people can ride. And of course, the kids just ride at incredible rates, you know, like 70 to 80% of the kids ride to school because the schools are on the network of separated, multi-use pathways like we have here on screen right now.

00:12:57:02 - 00:13:17:08
John Simmerman
And then, you know, the snow is cold enough and grippy enough. The question I have for you, since you're here in North America, way up in North America, is, is global warming and climate change kind of messing with the fact that it's you getting a constant, thaw and freeze cycle?

00:13:17:11 - 00:13:41:18
Becca Denley
Yeah, it's definitely an issue up here. And we, we, we tend to get snow in October. That's when it first lands. This picture here was taken around October 20th, I believe. But shortly thereafter, all this snow that had landed on that one night was so wet and thick and hard to get through. And then it stayed there.

00:13:41:18 - 00:14:22:02
Becca Denley
Because the way that we do snow removal is also let it sit for a while, because it's supposed to be so cold. You let it sit, it sort of builds up this, this base layer, and you drive on top of it, which we're finding is not working anymore because because of the change in temperatures. So now we're seeing fluctuating temperatures that, that mean that there is warmer times and then the snow is, is harder to get through, and then it gets cold and then it's frozen and strange formations and, and the biggest issue you see is that people with mobility issues are getting stranded and they're they're staying at home for weeks at

00:14:22:02 - 00:14:29:19
Becca Denley
a time because there's not enough clearing. And, there's not a there's no accessibility for them.

00:14:29:22 - 00:14:58:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a really, really good point. Because when you think of people with mobility issues and the propensity for slips and falls, it's a whole nother ball game between having really cold temperatures and having really, you know, grippy, sort of a crunchy snow. You know, we had mentioned before we hit the record button that, some of the videos are just the sound of it is just sort of like that, that dry crunchiness underneath the tires and all that.

00:14:58:08 - 00:15:27:12
John Simmerman
That's that's much different than when you do see the variability in temperatures. And you have a freeze overnight when it got kind of wet and slushy during the day, you wake up to kind of a black ice sort of feel, and it's really easy to, you know, lose your footing and slip and, and especially with somebody with mobility issues, the elderly, to your point back, it's you can feel like you're a prisoner at home because it's so the conditions are so slippery out there.

00:15:27:14 - 00:15:49:00
Adam Denley
And, usually. So we lived in Illinois for about 13 years. We moved away for three, and then we've just come back and, historically, what happens is that somewhere around October, the temperature peaks. It takes a big dive. And then we sort of very quickly get to temperatures around -15, -12, 20, which is. So that's around zero degrees Fahrenheit.

00:15:49:02 - 00:16:09:18
Adam Denley
And, and then it, you know, gets colder from there. But over the course of the winter, it stays for long stretches, somewhere between -20 and -40 degrees. The last couple of winters, and I mean, it sounds horrifying, but it's actually, it's, it's, it's it's great. That's sort of what we're accustomed to. And we rely on it because we have things like, you know, we build ice roads and things like that.

00:16:09:20 - 00:16:30:26
Adam Denley
So we rely on those cold temperatures. But for the past couple of winters, we've had problems with freezing rain. And that's not a phenomenon that is historic to this area. So and then, yeah, you want to talk about difficulty with mobility, like, that's, that's a huge, huge problem. And, and this is a new phenomenon that we've only noticed in the past couple of winters.

00:16:30:28 - 00:16:38:10
Adam Denley
But it happened last December, and it's happened again this December. And so this is a kind of a new reality that we're we're laboring under.

00:16:38:13 - 00:17:16:09
John Simmerman
You know, it's I like to, you know, it's it goes by many different names, you know, whether you want to call it global warming or climate change or global weirding. It's like, you know, the I it was you know, we had a massive, massive blizzard here and in Austin when the, the polar vortex, you know, dropped all the way down because the jet stream was such that, we're starting to see, you know, just really, really weird types of weather events that happen, because the prevailing jet streams aren't what they, you know, had been for hundreds of years, etc..

00:17:16:11 - 00:17:46:19
John Simmerman
And so, you know, we'll get plunged into I think it was like eight days a week of, you know, below freezing and, you know, in Austin, Texas, we we can't necessarily handle 8 to 10in of snow. And, everybody lost power. So we, you know, we're without power for an entire week. So imagine going through, you know, a really, really cold event like you're used to, but also trying to do that with no power and no heating.

00:17:46:22 - 00:18:08:18
John Simmerman
It is like, oh, yeah, I can kind of see that we're, we're camping here a little bit. But getting away from from weather report, I want to focus in on the fact that. So yeah, you guys, you know, you go off and you do your thing a little bit, and then you come back to Yellowknife and you get motivated to to make a change.

00:18:08:21 - 00:18:31:01
John Simmerman
And so you shift gears a bit and you're like, okay, we're ready to make a shift here. Yellowknife. Are you. Talk a little bit about the website here and, and what you all are trying to do and how you're being received by some of your friends, family and acquaintances there in Yellowknife.

00:18:31:04 - 00:18:53:22
Adam Denley
Well, I mean, when we were, we knew before we even left Denmark that, like, you know, this was going to be our project, that we were working on and back. And I would sort of talk about, like, what is it that is preventing people from, from taking up this, this kind of active mobility lifestyle? And, and this was Becca's grand idea, so.

00:18:53:24 - 00:19:19:10
Becca Denley
Well, take it away, Becca. All right? Yeah. You know, part of the original concept was, how can we get funding to help people, have access to cool bikes that they can ride around Yellowknife, and. But how can we also, use that funding to maybe create temporary bike lanes and, make some change in how the streets are set up?

00:19:19:13 - 00:19:43:23
Becca Denley
And we quickly realized, through our advocacy in the city and presenting to the city council about, okay, you need to do some temporary bike lanes over here. We're not able to get to the framework trail very easily. People are afraid of biking. And all of that conversation seemed like we weren't getting anywhere. And so you have to step back a bit and think, okay, how how do we start out?

00:19:43:28 - 00:20:04:13
Becca Denley
And so the the program became just about, getting people giving accessibility to people to, have a bike be able to choose biking in their every day, and, and test it out because some people were on the fence about whether or not they wanted to buy an e-bike. And some people had never even heard of a cargo bike up here.

00:20:04:13 - 00:20:16:28
Becca Denley
So this is a very new model in Yellowknife. Being able to put your kids or all of your groceries in a cargo bike and use that instead of instead of a minivan to get around.

00:20:17:01 - 00:20:31:26
Adam Denley
So, and we were we were trying to think of what are the what are the excuses that people give? Like, if we were I mean, not that we're these kind of people, but if we were the kind of person to say, like, why aren't you riding your bike? What are the excuses people with you with, well, you know, I have a bike, but it's not comfortable.

00:20:32:01 - 00:20:50:10
Adam Denley
So we made sure that we had, like a city bike available, one of these ones with a step through frame with a very upright, sort of relaxed seating posture. Not sort of a leaning over the handlebars like a, you know, like a, like a racing bike. We thought, well, that's one. Okay. What about, you know, I don't like showing up to work all sweaty.

00:20:50:10 - 00:21:06:06
Adam Denley
I'm out of shape. Okay, so we got the same style of city bike, but with an electric motor. And it's just the pedal assist motors. They don't have the throttle. For the 80s that you still, you still have to be pedaling, but you get to choose, you know, how much pedaling do you you need to do?

00:21:06:08 - 00:21:23:29
Adam Denley
And then we thought, okay, well, another complaint might be that, you know, getting a little older and I'm concerned about my balance and, and I'm not super comfortable. And so we thought, okay, well, let's make sure we have tricycles available. Right. And again, if someone has limited mobility, then they also, you know, might want an electric assist.

00:21:23:29 - 00:21:37:19
Adam Denley
So those ones that also also have electric motors. And then we thought, well, you know, I'd like to use a bike, but I have to drop my kids off at daycare in the morning. So we thought, well, then let's make sure that we have cargo box available. And then by that point we could kind of cover all the business.

00:21:37:19 - 00:21:55:02
Adam Denley
And so we we used that to launch the program, but we figured we wanted to have a kind of bike available for what whatever a person's circumstance might be, so that they could try it out and, and see if they had the right equipment, see if it was something that would, that would help them in their, in their life.

00:21:55:04 - 00:22:10:22
Becca Denley
And we and we coached them a bit on, how, you know, where, where do we go around on, city streets and where are the multi-use trails that you can use because some of them don't even know where the multi-use trails are, because there's not a lot of signage in town telling people that, oh, no, this isn't a sidewalk.

00:22:10:22 - 00:22:39:26
Becca Denley
It's actually where you can ride your bike as well. So there is a lot of, education involved in introducing the people to bikes as well. And and it really the response was very positive. A lot of people were interested in trying trying the bikes. I have a I have a pretty cool story, actually. One of my colleagues that I work with, in my normal day job, when I'm not doing all this fun advocacy stuff and she's like, oh yeah, I'd really like to try one of those bikes.

00:22:39:26 - 00:23:03:08
Becca Denley
And so she signed up for the program. She lasted three days, started looking at ordering her own e-bike, told me on the fourth day, I'm not going to need your bike tomorrow. I'm. I bought a new bike and by day five, she had bought her new bike, which is an exact replica of the bikes that we were using with the basket with, everything, all the hoops and whistles.

00:23:03:10 - 00:23:25:20
Becca Denley
And so I was able to pass that borrowed bike on to another person so that they could try it for the remainder of her two week session. So she then had her own e-bike know. It was pretty incredible. But she, she, she had thought about biking as a sport and she used to like biking. And she was she was thinking, well, I can't do them the biking anymore.

00:23:25:20 - 00:23:54:27
Becca Denley
That's a sport. But she hadn't realized that it can also be a form of transportation. And to Adam and I, biking is not a sport. It is totally an extension of our legs to get us to where we need to go. And it's so it's surprising how many people just don't don't make that connection yet. So now we have a lot of people that have tried the program that have now realized, oh, this is this is a part of transportation.

00:23:55:00 - 00:24:00:07
Becca Denley
We don't have to go by car all the time. Yeah. Wow. And and I think that this.

00:24:00:09 - 00:24:43:17
John Simmerman
That also kind of points back to the experience in Denmark to where, you know, to, to get on a bike is just like you said, it's an extension of your feet. It's like pedestrian. Plus, as Chris Bramlett likes to say, it, it and so there's a pragmatic sort of thought to it is. Yeah, I mean, this is just a mobility tool for us, but it's really not the fault of society to be able to believe that it's something else because we've been so scripted and framed, that, you know, bikes are two things, you know, kind of here in North America, traditionally over the last 50, 60, 70, 80 years is it's toys

00:24:43:17 - 00:25:10:03
John Simmerman
for kids. And it's, it's it's, you know, it's a racing thing. It's, it's a, it's a sport. And so realizing the pragmatism of being able to, use a bike for a short trip because and here's an overview of, of, you know, the city from, from above. If you're if you're distances are not that great. I mean, you mentioned it earlier, Adam.

00:25:10:03 - 00:25:37:04
John Simmerman
You know, I mean, this is not a huge place. It's just a matter of. So the distances are very bikeable. But we just need to work on that environment and that infrastructure so that it's perceived as being safe and inviting for people of all ages and abilities to not have to, like, dress for battle, just dress for the weather conditions and your destination and go.

00:25:37:06 - 00:26:02:02
Adam Denley
Yeah, yeah, right. And there's nothing about the streetscape up here as it currently stands. That is indicates that, that a bike is part of the road network, right? Like, if you're biking, you're sort of shouldering in the space that that is meant to be designed for cars. So you're right, there's there's nothing about the environment that encourages people to, to give it a try.

00:26:02:04 - 00:26:22:17
Adam Denley
So and I mean, even we like, you know, we have a network of, multi-use paths. They're not super well connected, but we do have them, but there's no signage, right? So a person who's walking down, that, like, it might just look like a sidewalk and a person walking on the sidewalk will see an adult coming on a bicycle and wonder why they're on the sidewalk and why they're not on the road.

00:26:22:20 - 00:26:43:17
Adam Denley
Because there's there's no signage to welcome, you know, cyclists onto that space. I mean, it has it is a cyclist because it's like, it's it's, you know. Yeah. That's just an image. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Like, I don't consider myself a cyclist. I never cycle for recreation. I don't do it. I don't go for a bike ride around the block.

00:26:43:20 - 00:26:55:15
Adam Denley
I go for a bike ride to work, to the grocery store, to, you know, to whatever. You know, I run errands on my bike. I don't, I don't I don't do it for fun. But it is fun, right? Like it's I don't need to go cycling recreationally. It's already had enough fun.

00:26:55:18 - 00:26:57:00
Becca Denley
Yeah.

00:26:57:03 - 00:27:02:03
John Simmerman
So, Becca, you're wearing a special shirt there from time to time?

00:27:02:03 - 00:27:07:11
Becca Denley
I am, yeah, I'm just going to show it to the camera a little bit.

00:27:07:13 - 00:27:08:08
Adam Denley
There you go.

00:27:08:10 - 00:27:10:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. Thank you.

00:27:10:05 - 00:27:11:29
Becca Denley
Thanks, Tom. Yes.

00:27:11:29 - 00:27:45:13
John Simmerman
Thanks, Tom. That Tom's been on the podcast twice now, and, you know, the the that shirt especially is one that sort of tells his life story is that he just wanted to be able to walk or bike with his kids to school or to other places, and became radicalized as an activist. And, and for him, you know, that was truly extraordinary in the sense that, you know, his previous career as an advertising agency guy was working in the automobile industry.

00:27:45:15 - 00:27:53:12
John Simmerman
And so it was really a huge shift for him. You're wearing that shirt for a reason.

00:27:53:15 - 00:28:33:02
Becca Denley
Tell us what. Yeah. Well, it happened to us, too. We did not expect this at all. We did not, expect that we would become these advocates. But we're living it. And, I mean, it started about a year before we were we knew we were coming back to Canada, and we were preparing ourselves mentally. And our kids, who are amazing, they in Denmark were able to go around on their bikes on their own with so much autonomy to go to swimming lessons, to go to their, their school on a bike or walking.

00:28:33:04 - 00:28:52:24
Becca Denley
But we didn't have to worry about them. They were on these nice dedicated bike lanes and and multi-use paths. And we were we were worried about what was going to happen. When we came back to Illinois. We thought to ourselves, okay, how are we going to get the girls to school? How are they going to get to all their activities?

00:28:52:28 - 00:29:16:19
Becca Denley
Are we going to have to drive them around everywhere? Because that's what people do here. They are basically glorified taxi drivers. Oh, there's a great picture of that when we, yeah, probably in our first year in Denmark on a beautiful multi-use path. And wow, it just, you know, you look into their eyes after that, they realize that they can do this on their own.

00:29:16:19 - 00:29:28:23
Becca Denley
And here their, their ages are probably like five and seven, I really expect, now they're nine and 11 and they have great independence even here in Yellowknife. So, that's fantastic.

00:29:28:26 - 00:29:48:15
Adam Denley
And the other thing is having that, you know, being comfortable with the, with their safety as a as they, you know, would travel around the community that totally unburdened us. Right? We didn't have to be offering them all over the place or supervising them everywhere. Like we could send them out the door to their swimming lessons and know that they'd be perfectly safe all the way there and all the way back.

00:29:48:17 - 00:30:03:00
Adam Denley
And then we could we we regained all that time, for ourselves. So like, it was it's not just a benefit for the children, though. It absolutely is. It's a it was it was a great benefit for us as well.

00:30:03:03 - 00:30:26:02
Becca Denley
Yeah. So so this t shirt I, I had to get it I, we spent so much time at City hall of presenting reasons why we need better. Infrastructure. And we want, we want complete streets. We want environments where people feel welcome to just be and and we have great opportunity to do that here. It's just it just might take a long time.

00:30:26:02 - 00:30:29:17
Becca Denley
So we spent a lot of time at City Hall. Yeah.

00:30:29:19 - 00:30:53:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you mentioned a couple of different things there that I want. I kind of hone in on in one. I want to pull this photo here of of this crossing. You call this a safe crossing? Here at this location. Walk us through why you wanted to share this image, and then I'm going to make an observation.

00:30:53:13 - 00:30:53:21
Becca Denley
Yeah.

00:30:53:21 - 00:31:12:06
Adam Denley
Do you want it? Yeah. So, the big summer event in Yellowknife is a music festival called folk on the rocks that's been running since for probably the 70s. And it's not just folk music, it's all kinds of music. And it goes over the course of a weekend. And, it's incredible. A lot of fun. They have a site sort of right on the lake.

00:31:12:09 - 00:31:29:20
Adam Denley
You know, it's all outdoors. You get incredibly sandy. You have a wonderful time. There's good food and vendors and things like that, but it's, it's a it's just a little bit outside of town. And to get to there, you have to travel down the highway. It's it's not a big highway. It's one lane in either direction.

00:31:29:23 - 00:31:45:14
Adam Denley
But it's still, you know, highway speeds. And the parking at the facility is very limited, which means that people end up just kind of walking down the side of the highway. And so they encroach a little bit on the driving light lane. But everyone, you know, everyone is okay with it because it's folk on the rocks, right?

00:31:45:14 - 00:32:01:00
Adam Denley
It's, you know, it's the one big weekend a year. But we, you know, we realized that if you wanted to bike there and we did, you can't do it because, there's all these cars that are already pushing into the driving lane. If you want to stay out of the door zone, you've got to be really well.

00:32:01:00 - 00:32:23:14
Adam Denley
And into the driving lane. And then you're really, really in the way of a highway traffic. And so we we've petitioned the territorial government, to put up, a temporary bike lane. And all we asked them to do was put up pylons along the, shoulder, the painted shoulder, so that people couldn't park there.

00:32:23:16 - 00:32:42:02
Adam Denley
Because we figured if there are enough parked cars, there's sort of just enough room, to have, to have a bike lane in that space. And they agreed. And they also put in, basically like a, an on demand pedestrian crossing there. So the amount of these temporary posts, you push a button, the lights flash, and, and then you can get across the highway.

00:32:42:04 - 00:33:04:04
Adam Denley
So, as, as actual safer infrastructure goes, it's pretty weak. But it was a huge, huge, benefit to the people using that space. And, and it helped us get sort of safely across the highway so that we could get onto that, that little bike lane blocked off by cones. And it made an incredible difference.

00:33:04:07 - 00:33:24:05
Adam Denley
There was a ton of people that were that cycled out there. All the bike racks were full. We had to go to, you know, to a local store and borrow their bike racks so that there would be enough facilities for everyone. And, there was, there was no great inconvenience for parking. You know, people found other places to park with it without much concern.

00:33:24:07 - 00:33:41:00
Adam Denley
And something that was noticed after the fact, just kind of anecdotally, is that the traffic flow out of the, festival grounds, at the end of the day, the traffic flow is smoother. Because you didn't have this mess of people getting to their cars and then having to do a big one, 80 in the middle of the highway.

00:33:41:00 - 00:33:52:27
Adam Denley
And, you know, the getting out of a facility was way faster and easier. Because, we, we remove this, this, ad hoc parking space program.

00:33:53:00 - 00:34:21:16
John Simmerman
You know, I wanted to hone in on that and, and kind of point out, too, that in these sorts of rural environments where you kind of have to deal with what you've been dealt in terms of the cards that you've been dealt. You do have a situation where, yeah, this, this sort of shoulder unprotected, etc., but at the same time, you can see that, you know, hey, we've got some space.

00:34:21:16 - 00:34:45:19
John Simmerman
But the other thing that that it comes to mind too, is and we talked about this earlier, is that necessity to, to, you know, kind of figure out a way to share some space. And so if the only space that you have available that's safe to you is and perceived as being safe for all ages and abilities is sharing space with pedestrians, so be it.

00:34:45:19 - 00:35:15:12
John Simmerman
And then you need to like, make sure that everybody is kind of on the same page in terms of what's appropriate behavior. And that's what we see when we see, you know, multi-use paths and people being able to share space in an environment, you know, like, we have in this, you know, photograph here is that, you know, you're not going to be on a racing bike and traveling at, you know, huge great speeds because you've got kids on, on, you know, this facility, it's shared space.

00:35:15:14 - 00:35:46:01
John Simmerman
And again, going back to the example of the blue, where the the space is physically removed from the automobiles. I just think that there's so much opportunity for cities and rural environments and places where, there are some very, you know, delightful and, pleasant and, you know, attractors like lakes and, and and, and places that people want to go and visit.

00:35:46:03 - 00:36:08:22
John Simmerman
What better way than to have an entire network of connected infrastructure off street network infrastructure. And, you know, a lot of people come up and say, well, oh, but the cost is just too extreme. We can't do this. And it's like it's a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on, you know, what we were looking at earlier, which is motor vehicle infrastructure.

00:36:08:22 - 00:36:33:00
John Simmerman
The, you know, the the amount of money that gets sunk into, you know, this type of infrastructure, highway types of infrastructure, you know, those pathways having a, you know, a physically separated pathway that kind of parallels this and is off to the side. And I guarantee you, the right of way of these highway zones are massive because they plan on expanding it at some point in time.

00:36:33:00 - 00:36:59:26
John Simmerman
They always do that. And so, you know, it's there. But in the interim, this shoulder, this sort of shared shoulder of being able to, you know, bike to this meaningful destination and this, this, music festival, that's brilliant. And good job to you guys for like, coming up with a creative solution to at least be able to get there and it just warms my heart to hear that so many other people rode their bikes there, too.

00:36:59:29 - 00:37:19:21
Adam Denley
Yeah. And and like, in kids and families and older people. Right. And, and, you know, having the cones kind of did two jobs like it prevented the parking, which is sort of the main job, but also just like psychologically, it's a it's a visible barrier. It's invisible separation. Right. Like it, you know, it's it just puts into your mind that this is my space.

00:37:19:21 - 00:37:27:17
Adam Denley
And, you know, the cars have the car space. And so you don't you it just it feels as if,

00:37:27:19 - 00:37:28:06
John Simmerman
And I wonder if.

00:37:28:06 - 00:37:29:09
Adam Denley
Your lesson on.

00:37:29:12 - 00:37:39:02
John Simmerman
What we're talking about. We're talking about the those, pylons. Those cones right there. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Brilliant, brilliant.

00:37:39:04 - 00:37:59:29
Adam Denley
And, you know, you mentioned. Oh, again. And the other thing about who's that? They're not they don't have a dense, building plan. Right? Like they're they're quite a sprawling city. So it's not it's not like they've got this very old fashioned, very dense, you know, ancient European city built like there, there are quite sprawling, sprawling, not too different from a lot of North American cities.

00:38:00:01 - 00:38:06:17
Adam Denley
So so, you know, we talk about how this doesn't work because it's for all but obviously there are ways around it, right? Yeah.

00:38:06:19 - 00:38:37:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Oh, and I do see that we also have another view of that. Those pylons. There we go. Yeah very very simple. It did that. But yeah I'm glad you brought that up Adam. The the beauty of Oslo and why I love it so much is because it is sprawling. Because the distances are greater than your typical, you know, example from, you know, from Europe of, oh, well, this is Utrecht and it's the distances are really, really, you know, short and, and there's lots and lots of density there and.

00:38:37:23 - 00:39:03:14
John Simmerman
Oh yes, it's a very, very much a form factor of single family homes, distances that are, that are spread out. But the fact that they did it sort of intelligently and built in that network of pathways to be able to deliver everybody from the kiddos on up to the elderly to their meaningful destinations on safe and inviting shared use paths, is just absolutely brilliant.

00:39:03:17 - 00:39:28:12
John Simmerman
And to to your point to Adam, is that there are some sections that are get a little bit more intense and the potential conflicts between pedestrians and number of cyclists, you know, sort of increase. And in those areas there's like physically separated, you know, designate space. It's really, really wide. And a portion of it is just for pedestrians and a portion of it is for people on bikes.

00:39:28:14 - 00:39:34:17
John Simmerman
But then in the more rural environments, in the through the forest, then it's just sort of shared space.

00:39:34:19 - 00:39:39:02
Becca Denley
So amazing. We've got to go visit. Yeah, yeah.

00:39:39:04 - 00:39:52:26
John Simmerman
I, I wanted to visit the summer I was over in Europe for 60 days this, this this year. And, and, I kept communicating with my friends and. Oh, Lou. And they tend to take off in the summertime.

00:39:52:29 - 00:39:54:12
Becca Denley
Occasionally they're like.

00:39:54:12 - 00:39:58:17
John Simmerman
Come back in the winter. I'm like, okay.

00:39:58:19 - 00:40:00:17
Becca Denley
It's a good idea. I should do that.

00:40:00:24 - 00:40:24:03
John Simmerman
I know, I think, I think I should. I want to give another plug to your fleet of bikes here. And so this is a nice little, shot of of some of them. I'm not seeing the trike in this particular, image here. So talk a little bit more about the structure of how they're there. You know, the business is kind of situated.

00:40:24:03 - 00:40:43:19
John Simmerman
You mentioned like a two week, period, that the one person does. Is it is it done like that? Is it done is is like rentals for a chunk of time, or is there a subscription model where, you know, people, you know, kind of take the bike and they're paying, you know, like on a monthly basis and they continue to use it.

00:40:43:19 - 00:41:05:21
Becca Denley
But yeah, it's completely free and that it was important that it be completely free. So basically we we it's wonderful. The entire thing is done on a volunteer basis. We have we had a couple of friends that were able to put together the website with us, which was very helpful because we're not very tech savvy.

00:41:05:23 - 00:41:34:08
Becca Denley
And so, we, we set it up so through bookable, which is a great platform to, to be a two week period. People could only come on, we picked a Sunday at 1230 to drop off the bike. And then we had volunteers to help, you know, make sure everything is okay with the bike. We we made sure the chains, the chains are all oiled, and did a checklist of making sure everything's good and then pass it on to the next, participants.

00:41:34:08 - 00:41:53:16
Becca Denley
They would arrive around 1:00 on a Sunday afternoon and we introduced the bikes to them because they had already signed up for them through the website. So we already had people booked up, and that way I could communicate with them. Part of the model is also getting feedback from the participants. We wanted to understand, what is it?

00:41:53:18 - 00:42:12:24
Becca Denley
What what do you do before you start renting this bike? Do you ever go biking? And we wanted to find out, what what kind of lives people were living and whether or not this is a very new thing for them. And then, after their two week session, we would send out a follow up questionnaire to find out how did it go.

00:42:12:25 - 00:42:36:19
Becca Denley
We wanted to collect data so that we can communicate this with, with various, entities like, city Yellow to show them how this is working and how people really do want this, show it to, the Healthy Choices Fund that really got the funding for the bikes from so that they understand that this is a program we're funding again.

00:42:36:21 - 00:42:43:02
Becca Denley
And so we do want to do this again next summer. But there are expenses that we have to source.

00:42:43:04 - 00:42:46:03
John Simmerman
All right. Yeah. Fantastic.

00:42:46:04 - 00:43:08:12
Adam Denley
And I mean, we started we sort of going through the, the data from those questionnaires. We've only sort of just started looking at it, but, but the thing that jumped out right off the bat was that, you know, for the overwhelming number of respondents, it was fun and it was easy. And that was that was just what we wanted to demonstrate, right?

00:43:08:12 - 00:43:25:04
Adam Denley
That you can it's not a big hurdle to, to make this a part of your lifestyle. And, and you'll enjoy it right? Instead of just having to drive across town to get to where you're going, your commute becomes a part of the day that you look forward to. It serves your, you know, like physical needs for activity.

00:43:25:04 - 00:43:42:02
Adam Denley
It's sort of like psychological needs for activity. It's, if you are traveling on things like the frame like trail, you get to be in the trees along the lakeshore, you know, traveling by other people, walking and cycling. It's, it does all these services and, and you don't just lose that time. My.

00:43:42:02 - 00:43:50:12
John Simmerman
Question, my question for you guys is, how much did you have to pay all these actors to, to to have to stage this?

00:43:50:15 - 00:43:50:19
Adam Denley
Yeah.

00:43:50:19 - 00:43:51:17
Becca Denley
That's funny.

00:43:51:19 - 00:44:09:14
Adam Denley
So yeah, yelling at the entire population of Yellowknife is somewhere north of 20,000. So it's it's a city. So it's a pretty small city. And that's the biggest city in the territory. Wow. And we had over 100 people, in this critical mass, and we just sort of advertised on Facebook and put up fliers on message boards around towns and things like that.

00:44:09:14 - 00:44:17:14
Adam Denley
So, I mean, it's a pretty it's a pretty big sample for a city of the only 20,000, right? Like it's a pretty big representation.

00:44:17:17 - 00:44:24:06
John Simmerman
I think it it brings up the point that there is such a latent desire and need.

00:44:24:08 - 00:44:58:06
Adam Denley
Yeah. And again, it's fun, right. Like it was it was it was fun to do the, the shift program is sort of gone to sleep now for the winter. Because we kind of agonized about whether we wanted to continue lending the bikes over the winter time. But in the end, we thought that, the road conditions are are so bad that we just we especially because it's encouraging people who are not, avid bikers already to give it a try, which means there'll be people that are less experienced and less equipment and, and the risk of injuries was just kind of too high.

00:44:58:09 - 00:45:07:19
Becca Denley
We do hope in the future that, we could do a winter version as well. And, well, we'll keep that in our back, the back pockets until later. Yeah.

00:45:07:21 - 00:45:14:16
John Simmerman
That's right. Yeah. I think writing for a look like this, you gotta give it a try at some point. And this is classic.

00:45:14:18 - 00:45:15:25
Adam Denley
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:15:27 - 00:45:16:24
Becca Denley
And it's like the.

00:45:16:25 - 00:45:20:20
John Simmerman
So is this this is, this is, this is classic right here.

00:45:20:23 - 00:45:48:23
Becca Denley
Yeah. There are girls. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And we do have quite a large population of winter bikers. And it's apparent when you go downtown and you see. But they take a lot of the bike racks away in winter. A lot of their businesses do, which is very frustrating for some of the winter bikers. But then they just end up parking their bikes right on the side of the road next to parking standards and things like that, like, like post and and whatnot.

00:45:48:23 - 00:45:54:12
Becca Denley
So you really do see how many people think that biking in winter is just fine.

00:45:54:14 - 00:46:31:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. This story sort of reminds me a little bit too, of the experience in Winnipeg. And, I interviewed, Aaron Ruediger, who had a wonderful podcast, called the, The Plain Bicycle Project podcast. And really, highlighting the, the initiative there where they were bringing over these abandoned bikes, from the Netherlands. And then they like to say that we're dropping these, these relaxed upright bikes, just plain bicycles in on the community there in Winnipeg.

00:46:31:23 - 00:46:57:14
John Simmerman
And they they termed it a culture bomb of where they're just like, you know, starting to like, you know, infiltrate in and, and just gradually change the culture because as I mentioned earlier and said earlier, alluded to earlier, is that it seems like there's a pent up demand and need for wanting to be able to get around in an alternative way.

00:46:57:16 - 00:47:06:14
John Simmerman
And you said it there earlier, Adam. It's it's fun. Who wouldn't want to get around in some other way.

00:47:06:16 - 00:47:23:09
Adam Denley
Yeah, yeah. We I remember talking with Andre, who's, sorry. His name escapes me now, but, I remember talking to him too, because we. That was that was an approach that we considered. We thought, well, you know, can we get maybe can we get these guys to ship us some of the bicycles that they brought over, or is this a model that we could replicate?

00:47:23:11 - 00:47:46:13
Adam Denley
And our conclusion was just that by the time they got up here, the, the cost, you know, the price point we have to attach to them was just it was higher than people were going to be willing to pay for a second hand bicycle so that there wasn't going to be, you know, appropriate approach. But we still managed to get a, you know, a slightly more North American version of those bikes in the form of the city bikes that we got.

00:47:46:15 - 00:47:50:15
Adam Denley
But yeah, that whole project was fascinating. Such a cool story.

00:47:50:17 - 00:48:15:16
John Simmerman
Yeah. I'll be sure to include, links in the show notes to this episode, to, Erin's podcast. She did in a series of limited series about the Plain Bicycle Project. And then I interviewed her twice, and, also interviewed, Patty, the bicycle mayor there in Winnipeg. So that's another, upcoming episode that, well, it's actually going to be out by the time this one gets out, but,

00:48:15:18 - 00:48:16:18
Becca Denley
That's good stuff, right?

00:48:16:22 - 00:48:21:00
John Simmerman
Whatever we talked about yet that you want to leave the audience with.

00:48:21:03 - 00:48:22:29
Becca Denley
You know, Peter.

00:48:23:01 - 00:48:23:18
Adam Denley
Snow.

00:48:23:18 - 00:48:28:10
Becca Denley
Clearing. Yeah, I don't know. Well.

00:48:28:10 - 00:48:50:28
John Simmerman
I mean, yeah. So you mentioned the snow clearing. We do have a good, I think, photo that kind of looks at that as as a bit of a challenge. When when we're looking at snow. We mentioned it earlier in. Oh, Lou, the philosophy is, is you're not really clearing the snow. You're actually texturizing it and you're making it grippy.

00:48:51:01 - 00:48:58:25
John Simmerman
And you talked a little bit about the conditions, that, that you all are dealing with. But this is the snow clearing photo.

00:48:58:28 - 00:49:25:08
Adam Denley
Yeah. So that was, this is on our, this is on a multi-use path, which is again, it mostly just looks like a slightly wider sidewalk. And, there is a little green sign that says bicycle route. That's the only signage on that whole route that indicates that bicycles are welcome in that space. And furthermore, when you look at it, it's not super clear if if the sidewalk is the bicycle route or if the road is the bicycle route, like it doesn't say bicycle path, it doesn't say multi use path.

00:49:25:08 - 00:49:50:17
Adam Denley
It's really ambiguous. And there's my bicycle standing up in the snow, without its kickstand down because the snow is deep enough that I could just plunk it in there and, and it stayed, on this particular stretch of road. One of the big frustrations we have is that when there's, a snowfall, they'll they'll come by to grade the, the snow, off to the side of the road, and they tend to grate it up onto the sidewalk.

00:49:50:19 - 00:50:11:03
Adam Denley
So, so it's just, it's this frustrating little indication of priorities where they're clearing the snow off of the road for the convenience and safety of the cars, but then making it less convenient and less safe for the pedestrians and cyclists and and all other kinds of road users. So, you know, they they've made a choice there about what mode they want to prioritize.

00:50:11:03 - 00:50:29:16
Adam Denley
And we don't think it's the right choice. And we have one of the, one of the frustrations that we have is that, again, they they leave the snow on the road. They mostly leave it to cars to kind of squash it flat. And then every once in a while they'll come along with the, with a greater blade and try and sort of smooth it out, push the snow to the side.

00:50:29:16 - 00:51:03:03
Adam Denley
And then at the intersections, they tend to dump a lot of gravel so that people have some, some traction, to come to a stop. But curbside parking is ubiquitous all over the city. Most of it's free. You know, outside of the downtown for all of the curbside parking is free. And it's, it frustrates the snow clearing efforts because then, you know, the the people drive integrators, they can't damage the car, so they have to give them a pretty wide berth when they're during the snow, which means that you you lose not just the road space where the cars are parked, but you also lose the sort of bird space between

00:51:03:03 - 00:51:20:04
Adam Denley
the where people are actually driving and where the cars are parked. And that would typically be the space taken up by people on bikes. And so that forces people on bikes further into the road, which is less comfortable, makes people more nervous and also causes frustration for, for the drivers.

00:51:20:06 - 00:51:21:03
John Simmerman

00:51:21:05 - 00:51:51:10
Adam Denley
So clearing the snow that way is, it's again, it shows, it shows where the priority set is. And, and the city and the territory have made a lot of talk about how they want to find ways to decarbonize. And, you know, reduce their economic harms and things like that. And, and, but, but we're, we're still sort of continuing these same sort of patterns that are leading people to think that the only viable option for travel around the city, is to use a car.

00:51:51:12 - 00:51:53:26
John Simmerman
Right? You know.

00:51:53:29 - 00:51:58:03
Becca Denley
I like how you you've often coined the term, it's overkill.

00:51:58:06 - 00:51:58:29
Adam Denley
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:58:29 - 00:52:17:00
Becca Denley
So, you know, typically you said eight kilometers, but typically your your distances are two kilometers or a kilometer to get somewhere. But the default is get in my car, go do do the thing and come back again. And, it can change if, if we only had the proper infrastructure.

00:52:17:03 - 00:52:43:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. To do that. Well, and, you know, we're looking at a few lights in the distance on this particular image here. And, you know, you can see especially since this is a you know, technically it's a it's a multi-use path. It's, you know, for bikes and peds along the side of this road, you can see that, you know, would a person even feel comfortable walking 800m, you know, let alone two kilometers?

00:52:43:23 - 00:52:50:10
John Simmerman
I mean, it's it gets to the point where you're like, well, what about human dignity and treating people with dignity?

00:52:50:13 - 00:53:12:22
Adam Denley
There's, there's a person in our neighborhood who uses an electric wheelchair and, in the wintertime, she to, rises just down the middle of the road because it's not reliably the case that everyone there's sidewalks in front of their houses is in our neighborhood. That's not done by the city. That's that's done by the residents. And I don't even think there's a bylaw that requires it to be done.

00:53:12:22 - 00:53:30:25
Adam Denley
It's just something, you know, people do because they know it's the correct thing to do. But sometimes people don't get to it for a few days. So that's not reliable. And and even if, if the sidewalks were reliably clear, snow tends to accumulate at the intersections. So you would come to the end of a block, on the sidewalk, and then you have to get across the road to the other side.

00:53:30:27 - 00:53:49:13
Adam Denley
And it's a big sloppy mess of, of snow ridges and drifts and, and so for, for this individual, the only, the only reliable and safe way for her to conduct in her own neighborhood where she lives, is to, is to ride in the middle of the road. And where's the dignity in that? You know?

00:53:49:16 - 00:54:21:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, I've. I've got really I've got a conflict with the, and I have a problem with the concept of sidewalks and multi-use paths being cleared by, the owners of the properties, you know, that that facility is in front of you because, you know, it's sort of infers that, oh, I'm responsible for clearing the ice on my sidewalk in front of my single family home.

00:54:21:20 - 00:54:43:02
John Simmerman
Okay. All right. I kind of get that. But there's a lot of assumptions that come up, you know, to that. Technically, that's considered part of the right of way of the mobility network of the city. It's not like you could do whatever you want with that sidewalk. You can't block it off. You can't claim it as your own and and do something.

00:54:43:02 - 00:55:11:16
John Simmerman
It can't build anything on it. It's actually part of the transportation system supposed to be. Likewise, you know, with professional businesses, you know, along this stretch, is it their responsibility to to do that? And what about the other areas where it's like, okay, well, who owns this property right here where the sign is? The honest to goodness truth is that it should be the responsibility of the municipalities to clear said.

00:55:11:19 - 00:55:38:04
John Simmerman
So, you know, transportation infrastructure, period. Full stop. Get it done. You know, you have to make sure that you're managing your books in such a way and your budgets in such a way, that when you build something, you have the ability to actually maintain that, whether that's you know, filling potholes, repairing other, you know, damages as well as maintaining it in a so that it is a safe facility.

00:55:38:12 - 00:56:02:15
John Simmerman
And I that's my position on multi-use paths and sidewalks is that and the reason why is so important in my mind is that, you know, when you look at something like this, this is a critical piece of infrastructure. And, you know, in Boulder, Colorado, which I'm very, very familiar with, I lived there for a decade, and I go back there, every year for a couple of weeks.

00:56:02:17 - 00:56:32:05
John Simmerman
They make sure that they plow in condition and, and, and clear the multi-use pathways before they even turn their attention to the, the motor vehicle travel lanes. And oftentimes, to your point, you know, Adam, it's like the oftentimes the roads are fine just like staying. And they they won't actually go in and treat that and plow that until it becomes an issue to do so.

00:56:32:12 - 00:56:53:05
John Simmerman
But they'll mobilize right away to make sure that, you know, the multi-use paths are in fact passable because it is different. It is the lifeline for these kiddos being able to get to their meaningful destinations as well as, you know, people in mobility devices like an electric wheelchair. So it is treating people with dignity.

00:56:53:07 - 00:57:20:25
Adam Denley
Yeah. And I mean, when you're driving in the snow on the road, I mean, you need to drive more slowly and, you know, it can be it can be a little bit frustrating and things can slow down. But you can probably the kinds of snowfalls we typically get around here, you can probably still get through. But if you, if, if the snow has, if there's a big dump of snow on the sidewalk and you use some sort of a mobility device, it's probably the case that it's impossible for you to to drive like you're simply trapped.

00:57:20:28 - 00:57:31:13
Adam Denley
So. Yeah. And and again, in credit to the city, the framework trail has been so well and reliably cleared, that that that conduit is it's been fantastic.

00:57:31:15 - 00:57:41:02
John Simmerman
That's exactly that's exactly what we want to see and we need to see. And then that ethic, I think, needs to also apply to some of these more urban environments too.

00:57:41:04 - 00:58:01:12
Adam Denley
Well, and the thing is the the problem is getting there. Right. So, so the network is not being expanded outside. Right. Like it's they're not considering it's not not only just a frame likely to be the trail need to be there. But but we need to be able to get there. There needs to be a network to get people from their front door there, and then on to downtown, wherever they have to go.

00:58:01:14 - 00:58:27:07
Adam Denley
And we've been one of the things we've been sort of, sort of harping on the city about a little bit is that, again, we have we have these wide roads and we have all this free parking, that is pretty underutilized in most neighborhoods because everybody has driveways. So what usually happens is that, you know, there will be a car in the driveway and a second car in the driveway, and then maybe like a camper sort of on the lawn or on the side next to the driveway.

00:58:27:07 - 00:58:47:20
Adam Denley
And then that means that someone's got a trailer with a couple of screws or something, or, or, you know, or a boat parked on the street. And so and that's, that's not someone going for dinner, right? Like that's long term parking. And so that means that the city is subsidizing this, you know, someone having a lot of toys, basically.

00:58:47:22 - 00:59:02:19
Adam Denley
They're not they're not getting any benefit from it. And also it's I mean, there'll be one of those on this side of the road and then another one a little further down the other side. So the space is underutilized, but the city has to maintain it. They have to look after it. They have to fill the potholes.

00:59:02:19 - 00:59:20:23
Adam Denley
They have to clear the snow, like when there's sewer maintenance, they have to tear it all up and then repave it afterwards. So it's a big liability and the city doesn't get any revenue from it. And and the residents don't really get a huge benefit from it because if if some of that parking was removed, there would still be ample parking in most areas.

00:59:20:26 - 00:59:45:00
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah. To close this out, Becca, give us, in the audience, a little bit of wisdom, about this type of project and, and just kind of going for it and what that was all about. Any words of wisdom? After launching the program.

00:59:45:02 - 01:00:09:11
Becca Denley
Funny. Stay dedicated. If you have an idea that you think is going to make a difference in, you know, a few people's lives or, you know, 20 or even 50, just do it. There were many points when I had barriers come up and say, oh, you can't go from from here to there, so don't don't give up.

01:00:09:14 - 01:00:17:24
Becca Denley
There's a way to do it. You figure it out, and the benefits are so high. So I guess that's it.

01:00:17:27 - 01:00:39:23
Adam Denley
Yeah, well, I mean, the program absolutely would not have happened. No, no, nobody else would have had the determination to make it because it and it it came together really quickly. Right. And, yeah, that's, well, you deserve all the credit for that. But also, Becca made it happen because she amassed, a group of people that, that she could, related to.

01:00:39:23 - 01:00:55:28
Adam Denley
She amassed volunteers, and she and she found partners to work with, and, you know, she she asked them to participate, and they were willing to do it. Right. And it all came down to her ability to stick with the putting the program together and then finding partners that she could work.

01:00:56:01 - 01:00:57:01
Becca Denley
Yeah.

01:00:57:04 - 01:01:14:05
John Simmerman
Having the audacity to to give it a go and then get help as fast as possible. And again, the website is shift in your org. Becca and Adam, thank you so very much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. This has been an absolute joy and pleasure.

01:01:14:08 - 01:01:16:14
Becca Denley
Thanks, John. Thanks so much for having us.

01:01:16:17 - 01:01:38:22
John Simmerman
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Zimmerman and that is Adam and Becca Dentally, from Yellowknife up in the Northwest Territories of Canada. We are going to be talking about, their initiative to get more people riding more often. Way up there, up north in the great White North. Let's get right to it with Adam and Becca.

01:01:38:25 - 01:01:53:28
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Adam and Becca. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be an honor to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

01:01:54:00 - 01:02:15:12
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an active Towns Ambassador. It's easy to just navigate over to Active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness.

01:02:15:15 - 01:02:32:07
John Simmerman
Cheers. And again, sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit. Every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.