Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:22
Mike Christensen
I recommend. If you really want to do it right, you really should look at accommodations in the in a sleeper car, right? Which gives you options with. What I have usually gotten is the room at, which is a small room with two seats that face each other and at night, that that gives you lots of room. Yeah.

00:00:26:22 - 00:00:31:07
Mike Christensen
At night, the, the two bottom seats fall down to, to give you the bottom berth.

00:00:31:07 - 00:00:59:15
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman, and that is Mike Christensen with the Utah Rail Passengers Association. And a frequent user of Amtrak. And, I wanted to talk with Mike about the possibility of taking the Active Towns tour out on the rails, via Amtrak and so, he's going to walk me through some tips and some things to do and just how feasible it is for me to take that Active Towns tour out on the rails.

00:00:59:21 - 00:01:06:21
John Simmerman
So let's get right to it with Mike.

00:01:06:23 - 00:01:12:10
John Simmerman
Mike Christensen, such a wonderful, pleasure having you back on the podcast. Welcome.

00:01:12:12 - 00:01:15:11
Mike Christensen
Thanks. It's great to be here.

00:01:15:13 - 00:01:43:00
John Simmerman
So you were on the podcast a long time ago. I mean, we're we're talking this is way back in season one, and, it was so much fun catching up with you, back then. And we talked a little bit about, your new project that you were working on, and you were we you were really sharing your vision for what it was going to take to try to revitalize rail connectivity in Utah.

00:01:43:03 - 00:02:05:06
John Simmerman
And, and, and just for context, this is like four years ago, this was in early in the pandemic, in July of the pandemic. And so, we've got some even get some photos down here, but up the up there's the photo with the mask on. So that dates it for you. But, we'll talk a little bit about the context and the history and where you're at these days.

00:02:05:13 - 00:02:15:06
John Simmerman
with your efforts. But, why don't we do this? Why don't you just take a moment to, like, a little short introduction, like 30s. Who is Mike Christensen?

00:02:15:09 - 00:02:42:03
Mike Christensen
Well, I am a transit and active transportation nerd. A lot of that comes about from, having the opportunity to have lived in Germany not once, but twice, both experiences I was very much immersed in, in public transit. And, that really influenced my, my views, really understanding that.

00:02:42:03 - 00:02:43:10
John Simmerman
Our, our.

00:02:43:10 - 00:03:03:08
Mike Christensen
Idea of the, the very stereotypical American dream of living in a single family home and driving a car everywhere might not be the most, you know, the best, highest and best way to live. So that, is me in a nutshell. Yeah.

00:03:03:10 - 00:03:26:18
John Simmerman
And, you and I had talked about this, the first time you were on back in in 2020 about the fact that, Well, a we know each other from seeing you, and we're going to talk about your organization that you have founded, talk, talk with us about Utah Rail Passengers Association and what inspired you to to found this organization.

00:03:26:21 - 00:04:02:03
Mike Christensen
I also, let's say about the same time that I went back to grad school and was getting involved in CMU and Strong Towns. I also got involved in the National Rail Passengers Association, which is a Washington, DC based advocacy organization that has really been doing a lot of great work in fact, we played a big role in the, passenger rail, especially the inner city passenger rail portion of the bipartisan infrastructure law.

00:04:02:05 - 00:04:38:06
Mike Christensen
And I got involved starting in 2014, in, in leadership of Rail Passengers Association, and was elected to the board of directors in 2019 and have been on the board of directors ever since. And so I when, when I after I finished my master's degree in 2018 and was looking at the next step, I decided to create the Utah Rail Passengers Association and basically kind of patterned the organization after the national organization.

00:04:38:09 - 00:05:31:12
Mike Christensen
And I realized that there was a lack of, institutional capacity in Utah or in other words, like a leadership void. Basically, it wasn't anyone's job at any level of of government in Utah, to look at things like statewide transit and passenger rail that connects the entire state. We have the Utah Transit Authority and a handful of other transit agencies around the state that do a good job with local transit, but there's just not much leadership and initiative being shown to, make that a statewide.

00:05:31:15 - 00:05:34:18
Mike Christensen
It's really take responsibility for that being a statewide thing. Yeah.

00:05:34:20 - 00:05:44:10
John Simmerman
No. And when you say local, it's I want to make sure that people understand. When you say local, it's actually a pretty good amount of distance, right?

00:05:44:12 - 00:06:12:22
Mike Christensen
Yes. In fact, our our commuter rail system, which commuter rail isn't really the best term? Regional rail is probably a better term because we do have have all day service rather than service that's just focused around, the commute. But that extends from Provo in the south all the way to, to Ogden in the north, which is a different distance of over 80 miles.

00:06:12:25 - 00:06:48:07
Mike Christensen
Yeah, that runs hourly all day and half hourly in, in the mornings in the evenings. And that really connects the the greater Salt Lake City metro region, which, which we call the Wasatch Front. And that's a region of oh, I forget because we keep growing. So I keep forgetting exactly what the numbers are. Where Salt Lake City itself, we are we comprise a relatively small percentage of of our metro region.

00:06:48:14 - 00:07:09:18
Mike Christensen
We are, just over 200,000 residents in Salt Lake City itself. But the overall, metro region, which demographically comprises three MSAs, and one big CSA, Combined Statistical Area, that is over 2.5 million people now.

00:07:09:18 - 00:07:28:23
John Simmerman
And Salt Lake is also a huge destination for for people who are visiting, maybe in the summertime or the winter time, they're heading up into the mountains, you know, if I, you know, if I fly in and I want to, you know, jump on the train and go up and down the Wasatch, that sounds like that's very much a doable thing.

00:07:28:25 - 00:07:35:18
John Simmerman
How about if I want to jump on the train and maybe go to to Park City? Can I get on a train to do that?

00:07:35:21 - 00:08:09:08
Mike Christensen
There unfortunately is not a train to Park City. That's something that a lot of us advocates are pushing for. there was a train that operated until, I believe it was 1947. Okay. And, just like many metropolitan rail systems that disappear. And after World War two, we there was actually no public transit at all between Salt Lake City and Park City, even though, you know, driving time, it's it's about a half hour drive to go up the canyon and get there.

00:08:09:10 - 00:08:46:08
Mike Christensen
And it wasn't until about 2013 or 2014 that the the Utah Transit Authority, which is the transit district for, for the Wasatch Front and Park City Transit, actually were able to get together and collaborate on a bus route that made that connection. And it interestingly, was actually had previously been illegal under state law for transit districts to actually have services that went into each other's districts.

00:08:46:10 - 00:09:26:23
Mike Christensen
It's limited. The and it was it was something that was set up so so that it wouldn't compete against private services. But the the issue that was that the only private services were basically luxury shuttles and limos that would take you up to the airport in Salt Lake City and take you up to park City. And there, as housing has become more, more unaffordable, in the last decade or so, there's been a huge issue in being able to get workers from Salt Lake City up to Park City.

00:09:27:00 - 00:09:51:18
Mike Christensen
And a finally, we're able to to collaborate on actually making that connection. But unfortunately, the it's only about the bus only runs about six round trips a day. And so it's woefully inadequate, especially to Interstate 80, that that makes that connection has three lanes in each direction and is is carrying massive amounts.

00:09:51:20 - 00:09:57:02
John Simmerman
I was just going to say and and there's probably no priority transit lane for them. Right.

00:09:57:08 - 00:10:30:02
Mike Christensen
Yeah. And it's usually the, the bus flows pretty good, but it's it's it's basically rush hour service in the morning and in the evening. And so if I, let's say, want to hop on the bus and eat lunch in Park City, I have to leave downtown Salt Lake City at just after eight in the morning on the bus, because the next run going up there doesn't leave until about, two in the afternoon.

00:10:30:05 - 00:11:10:28
Mike Christensen
So, yeah, there's there there's a huge need to be able to go beyond the metropolitan region and, to the rest of the state and to neighboring states. Yeah. And that's the slide that you've got there is actually taken from a presentation from the Federal Railroad Administration, which outlines the corridor Identification and Development program, which is one of the components included as part of the bipartisan infrastructure law, which there there's a massive amount of funding for, for capital projects to actually implement things.

00:11:11:01 - 00:11:42:06
Mike Christensen
But everything you see on the slide there actually just covers getting federal funding. In order to do the study is necessary to implement new services. And back in December, there were well, throughout 2023, there were more than 90 applications that were made to take advantage of corridor ID funding, and there were 69 applications that were awarded a half million dollars each.

00:11:42:06 - 00:12:28:15
Mike Christensen
In order to jumpstart the planning process on these application lines and so on that map, we see a variety of the the very light gray lines are the existing Amtrak routes, but, the dashed red lines are high speed rail proposals that the planning process is being funded through this program. The dashed blue lines are new services that non high speed rail services that have applied for for funding to to study at the solid blue lines are existing services where there's been applications to improve services.

00:12:28:17 - 00:13:05:26
Mike Christensen
for the most part add more frequency and the the corridor ID program is kind of focused more on state sponsored services, which are routes that typically travel less than 750 miles and that are a partnership between state and Amtrak. The map that we have on there now shows the existing Amtrak network, with the state sponsored routes and dark blue, and the orangish tan routes are the existing long distance routes.

00:13:05:26 - 00:14:00:03
Mike Christensen
We have 15 long distance routes that that crisscross the country and part of the bipartisan infrastructure law also required the Federal Railroad Administration to study how to expand the long distance network across the country. And the the big thing that everybody got all excited for was this map that we see there that shows, in addition to the 15 existing routes, another 15 route crisscross in the country and if you like, bounced back and forth between those two maps, you really see that, we are trying to fill in a whole lot of gaps all around the country that have lacked service, and where we're trying to provide service to a whole lot of areas

00:14:00:03 - 00:14:34:15
Mike Christensen
that are being served, but also make it a lot easier to make trips that, you could make by train, but it require a, transfer and a long layover and maybe even staying overnight somewhere to to make the trip. For example, if I go from from Salt Lake City up into Washington to visit my, my family, and I take Amtrak, I have to, do a layover either in Sacramento or in the Bay area to do that trip.

00:14:34:21 - 00:14:56:14
Mike Christensen
And with what's proposed in this plan, we would restore, routes that we lost in the past that would make that a direct trip so that, not only adds more population to the population that's being served by Amtrak, but it's also making a whole lot more direct trips possible.

00:14:56:21 - 00:15:20:13
John Simmerman
If I can jump in and say, yeah, so about a year or so ago, I was like, conceiving this idea of taking the The Active Towns tour out on the road, on the rails, not on the road, but on the rails. And I'm like, okay, I want to get to Denver because I always, you know, go to Boulder, Denver every summer.

00:15:20:15 - 00:15:44:27
John Simmerman
Of course, if I want to do that, I either have to go all the way to California and then up and then over, or I have to go all the way to Chicago and then back over. I'm like, wow, okay. If I mean, you can totally see that if we have the proposed network, I suddenly have a much more direct, you know, route that I can do.

00:15:44:27 - 00:16:07:03
John Simmerman
And literally, by the way, Mike, I don't know if I've told you this. I can walk to the Amtrak station from my house. And so I literally jump on my Brompton with my luggage, zip on over the Amtrak station, you know, catch the the, you know, the Amtrak that's rolling right through Austin, which is the Texas Eagle, I believe is the name of it.

00:16:07:06 - 00:16:33:25
John Simmerman
And ultimately, I would want to then transfer over to whatever this red line would be called. And then, you know, head up through Trinity and then boom, into Denver. Once I'm in Denver, then I get on, I can either ride my bike from the Denver station, the 20 some odd miles, or more likely, I just get on the flat iron flier with bus, which is a nice, prioritized bus.

00:16:33:27 - 00:16:57:06
John Simmerman
Although based on this diagram, I would also have the potential of a train that would take me right into Boulder and, take advantage of the transit station that has already been tod that has already been built, right there in Boulder. Let's make it happen. What do we how do how do we make this happen?

00:16:57:09 - 00:17:27:21
Mike Christensen
The the study is, has been. And the way that all this is, has been laid out is wonderful. the the one downside side is the implementation timeline where we're not, currently the timeline that it's on is, is basically a 15 year timeline. So we're not expected to see any new routes rolled out until 2040. And we are trying.

00:17:27:24 - 00:17:28:08
Mike Christensen
Do you have.

00:17:28:08 - 00:17:31:18
John Simmerman
Any idea do you have any idea how old I would be?

00:17:31:20 - 00:18:06:09
Mike Christensen
Right. Exactly. And I'm right behind you on that. Yes. we are trying to to compress that timeline from 15 years to like an 8 to 10 year timeline. And in fact, the, the the comment that, Jim Matthews keeps making, who is the president and CEO of the National Rail Passengers Association is that we were able to put a man on the moon, on the moon in less than a decade, like closer to eight years, and we should be able to figure out how to make this happen.

00:18:06:15 - 00:18:29:07
John Simmerman
Can I jump in and say this? Is that you? You made the point earlier that a big portion of what this proposed network is of the preferred routes is the fact that in many of these cases, there were already previously routes in. So it's not like literally we're trying to put a man on the moon and we've never done it before, right?

00:18:29:09 - 00:18:33:22
John Simmerman
In many cases, there's actually maybe even rights of way still preserved.

00:18:33:22 - 00:18:51:16
Mike Christensen
Well, all of actually, if you go back to the, the map again, all of what's on the map is all existing rail corridors, you know, it's the the rail already exists. There may need to be a few few improvements made in or it's in.

00:18:51:16 - 00:18:56:12
John Simmerman
It's probably and it's probably being used by, yeah. By freight rail.

00:18:56:12 - 00:19:38:03
Mike Christensen
By freight. Yes. And so in terms of, of building new rail lines, that's not really necessary for this plan. The, the big hindrance is actually the equipment and the the problem is that Amtrak's existing long distance fleet is basically as old as I am. And, I actually had my birthday yesterday. I'm 47 and happy birthday. I the the Amtrak long distance fleet is is about the same age and is in desperate need of being replaced.

00:19:38:03 - 00:20:11:20
Mike Christensen
And Amtrak has just started the procurement process to be able to do that. But it reasonably is going to take ten years to replace the existing fleet. So you've got to replace the whole existing fleet and then build a whole new additional fleet on top of that to roll out the new services. And so that's the the big thing that we're we're going to get a whole lot more people connected, which is what these, these slides are showing that there's an increase.

00:20:11:22 - 00:20:38:15
Mike Christensen
And in the people and especially when we start looking at area of rural population throughout the country, that we're we're getting a 51% increase in rural communities that are served. And, they're there's a big push as part of the bipartisan infrastructure law for this to not just be like a lot of typical transportation funding, where it ends up just serving existing metropolitan areas.

00:20:38:15 - 00:21:20:16
Mike Christensen
We we really want this to go beyond that. And, and serve, rural populations. And we're basically more than doubling the number of route miles in this system. Yeah. And also being able to serve a lot of rural areas that are in poverty and a lot of Native American areas that have lacked service, which, there's a big focus on economic and social well-being because a lot of places, rural areas, there are a long way, sometimes even from, definitely from airports, but also often from from freeways.

00:21:20:19 - 00:21:46:01
Mike Christensen
So it makes it very difficult for people to travel. And there's often not a lot of public transit that's available. So a lot of people rely on, on Amtrak trains to get them to where they need to go. And we're hoping that the the big ask is that we hope that, everybody looks at this and says, hey, we want to make this happen.

00:21:46:04 - 00:22:13:27
Mike Christensen
Yeah, that you reach out to the members of your congressional delegation and say that, hey, this is a priority. And, unfortunately, none of this is going to be high speed rail, so it's not going to be 200 mile an hour trains, but, it's going to really catch us up on on what we should have preserved post-World War two when a lot of these, services disappeared.

00:22:13:29 - 00:22:29:19
John Simmerman
We are just looking at that combination of the existing map, which kind of is what we've got on the screen here now is the existing Amtrak lines and then the proposed. And, but now this is something a little bit more personal. This is your mileage.

00:22:29:21 - 00:22:53:26
Mike Christensen
Yes. This is, since I'm a GIS nerd, it's very easy for me to make a map like this, and I've kept track of all of the Amtrak routes that I've ridden, and I have not been everywhere that Amtrak serves, but I have covered probably more than two thirds of the country so far.

00:22:53:29 - 00:23:04:28
John Simmerman
Well, and I can tell right now, I mean, I'm looking at one of those blue lines because the blue lines are the ones that you have not yet seen. Yeah. And so you haven't been down here to Austin?

00:23:04:28 - 00:23:31:21
Mike Christensen
I have not gone any further than Fort Worth into Texas. And, that trips that well going across, Missouri and then going from Saint Louis, down, down across Arkansas and to Fort Worth and then going out to Oklahoma City. That was actually all going to seeing you in Oklahoma City two years ago. So that's.

00:23:31:21 - 00:23:31:29
John Simmerman
Right.

00:23:32:05 - 00:23:38:05
Mike Christensen
That's right. Which I think that was my first big trip after the pandemic. Calm down.

00:23:38:07 - 00:23:49:08
John Simmerman
So if you were, if you were to to come visit me, I would bet that it would be probably make more sense for you to head to California than down and then over.

00:23:49:10 - 00:23:59:11
Mike Christensen
Yeah, it kind of depends. I would probably go go by way of California in order to cover, territory that I haven't covered yet.

00:23:59:13 - 00:24:05:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Because then would be able to do that whole stretch of, of the, of the two haven't done yet. Yeah.

00:24:05:04 - 00:24:27:23
Mike Christensen
Which is, is an interesting route because it's, it's called the Sunset Limited that runs between Los Angeles and New Orleans. And it actually gets, one point within 100ft of the border just outside of El Paso. And it's really gives you some some interesting desert views.

00:24:27:26 - 00:24:53:23
John Simmerman
And I haven't and I haven't been on it either. And so a big part of what we want to talk about today is, is this concept, yeah. If I took the Active Towns tour out on, on the rails, what that would be like, and you were gracious enough to to put together an entire folder of, images to help walk me through what my experience could be like if I.

00:24:53:29 - 00:24:54:25
John Simmerman
If I did it.

00:24:54:25 - 00:24:55:24
Mike Christensen
So, yeah.

00:24:55:24 - 00:25:21:24
John Simmerman
Start starting out with, you know what my accommodations might be like if I decided to, to do this. And before we dive into these photos, talk a little bit about the the options available in terms of doing this type of travel and to set this up and give you some context, I will be in Europe for two months this summer.

00:25:21:27 - 00:25:50:02
John Simmerman
And so I've purchased, a year rail pass. And so I've, you know, I've gone through and went ahead and purchased a Eurail pass where I have access to, these rail routes across 33 different countries. And I can do unlimited trips, you know, in segments and unlimited, during that time, in the your rail friendly countries, it's usually.

00:25:50:02 - 00:26:17:07
John Simmerman
I just have to I may have to set up a seat. I may have to, do a reservation, but in those countries, I won't have any additional cost. And then for some of the, the countries that are a little less friendly, like, say, France and Spain, I actually would have to pay a small additional amount for my seat reservations, but it's still quite nominal and minimal.

00:26:17:10 - 00:26:34:29
John Simmerman
So that's I'm familiar with riding the train and doing the Active Towns tour via Brompton Bike and Train. I've been doing that, since 2015, but I've never done Amtrak, so what would my options be like? You know, for, for for Amtrak.

00:26:35:02 - 00:27:04:03
Mike Christensen
There's a fairly wide stretch of, of options on board. I didn't include any pictures of the coach seating, because that's usually something that people are very familiar with. And Amtrak, especially on the long distance trains, has, very super comfortable seats. The seats are more luxurious than what you actually see on first class seats on, planes.

00:27:04:06 - 00:27:35:18
Mike Christensen
So you do have nice good seats, but I recommend if you really want to do it right, you really should look at accommodate and in the, in a sleeper car. Right. Which gives you options. That's what I have usually gotten is the room at, which is a small room with two seats that face each other and at night, that, that that gives you lots of room.

00:27:35:18 - 00:27:44:18
Mike Christensen
Yeah. At night, the two bottom seats fall down to, to give you the bottom berth. And then there's a top berth that swings down for the upper.

00:27:44:21 - 00:27:53:00
John Simmerman
So you so you actually, as a solo traveler, you end up getting this and you have it to yourself.

00:27:53:03 - 00:28:08:11
Mike Christensen
Yes. And it's it's not like some other trains in the world where you may end up having a room and sharing, having to share it with a stranger. On, on Amtrak, if you get a room, it's always you. And only so others in your.

00:28:08:11 - 00:28:16:07
John Simmerman
Party, in your parties. Yeah. So if you have a significant other or if you have a child or two, you might share this room, right?

00:28:16:08 - 00:28:28:06
Mike Christensen
Okay. And it's very cozy. if you, you know, if you're sharing it, you want it to be somebody who's a significant other or someone that you're your good friends or family with.

00:28:28:09 - 00:28:33:21
John Simmerman
Right, right. It's it's. Yeah, it's it's a little cramped. Yeah. Not not too bad though.

00:28:33:24 - 00:29:01:16
Mike Christensen
It's really the perfect size for just one person though, so. Okay. and it, there, there are shared bathrooms down the hall or down the stairs and also a shared shower. So you get you get access to everything that you need. And there are also larger, more expensive rooms where you actually get your own your own toilet and shower on sleep.

00:29:01:18 - 00:29:10:06
Mike Christensen
Those are the price jumps up a lot for those. and there are also rooms for and so, you.

00:29:10:06 - 00:29:16:13
John Simmerman
See, I'm hungry because I've, I've not only fast forwarded to food, but I fast forwarded to desert.

00:29:16:16 - 00:29:47:25
Mike Christensen
Desert? Yes. one of the things that's not always that advertised very well by Amtrak is that if you are traveling on a long distance train and you have a room, any of the rooms, all of your meals in the dining car are included in the price of your ticket, which is one of the things that, like you factor into the, the, the kind of high cost of of getting the, the room accommodations.

00:29:47:28 - 00:30:09:20
Mike Christensen
It's like you're going to eat on the train anyway and you might as well get the good food. You had good service in the dining car. Yeah. Great views, you know, while while you're, you know, having your steak, you can look out and watch the world go by. and they also have not not the most widest menu.

00:30:09:20 - 00:30:34:25
Mike Christensen
They, they don't really have the option to offer a whole lot of variety, given the fact that they're limited to what they can do on a train. But they do have things like vegetarian and vegan options also on board. But it just gives you like a whole other experience. That is the almost 180 degrees opposite of what you experience flying.

00:30:34:27 - 00:31:04:20
Mike Christensen
And it's a little bit more like a road trip, but you get to sit back and let someone else do the driving. And one of the other great things, most of the, the long distance routes in the West like that, that's actually, an example of the snack bar that's downstairs in the lounge car or also known as the the observation car, or the Sightseer lounge.

00:31:04:20 - 00:31:44:14
Mike Christensen
So there's there's an entire car. That is what they call non-revenue seating. So it's got seats in it that you can't book. You just go there on a first come, first served basis when when you get tired of sitting in your own room or in your seat, and it's got all of these huge windows that you get to sit and look out of and it is not just a great experience in terms of being able to experience all this, scenery, but it's you're having this shared experience with your fellow passengers.

00:31:44:16 - 00:32:31:18
Mike Christensen
So you're you're basically having this, this great time and, and learning to enjoy a mingling with, with other people as what is really like a third space on the train. And it's it's a great place if you just want to go and socialize and strike up a random conversation because you're you're on the train for a long time, so you have the opportunity to actually mingle with people in a way that you don't really see on, flights and that you can't really do to the same extent on like a road trip, you know, unless unless you stop off at a diner to eat and really mingle with, with people there, you don't really have

00:32:31:18 - 00:32:35:01
Mike Christensen
that same opportunity on a road trip, you know.

00:32:35:03 - 00:33:04:23
John Simmerman
And, and one of the, one of the routes that I am familiar with, but I've never ridden on is this one here and this is in Glenwood Canyon, and I've almost always been great here on that bike path. Right underneath the I-70 is a wonderful bike path. And I've I've ridden on that bike path many, many times and seen the train go by and thought, you know, one of these days I'm going to do that, but talk about this experience.

00:33:04:23 - 00:33:21:02
John Simmerman
I mean, you, you do get to really you mentioned you're you're able to, you know, sort of mingle and be alone as much as you want as well as with other people as much as you want, but you also have access to just stunning views.

00:33:21:04 - 00:33:42:16
Mike Christensen
Yes. And, on this particular trip, I this is actually sitting in my room. I happened to be on that side of the train where I have these views of Glenwood Canyon and, but, you know, if if you happen to be seated on the wrong side of the train, you do have the option to go to the lounge car and to look at both sides.

00:33:42:18 - 00:34:16:27
Mike Christensen
But it's just wonderful to be able to sit back and relax and watch the world go by. And these super comfortable. And I believe this was actually last spring while I was on my way to seeing you in, in Charlotte and I, I ended up being on a time crunch, coming back. So I flew home, but I actually went all the way to Charlotte by train, made transfers in Chicago and New York City on my way there.

00:34:17:00 - 00:34:18:26
John Simmerman
How long did that take you?

00:34:18:28 - 00:34:27:15
Mike Christensen
Yeah, well, I, I did it. I did a same day transfer in Chicago, but I actually ended up staying two nights in New York City.

00:34:27:18 - 00:34:41:05
John Simmerman
Okay. So how does that work out? How does that work out ticket wise? When you do that, when you want to do you are you are you basically booking your way through to New York City? You know, you're going to get off and stay a couple days and then I said, yeah, a whole new ticket.

00:34:41:11 - 00:35:21:21
Mike Christensen
Yes, it it was, it was one ticket, including both trains from Salt Lake City through Chicago to New York, and then an additional ticket from. And there are one of the other warnings that I have to give is that Amtrak is often late. So when you've traveled by Amtrak, a lot, you learn to avoid tight transfers. And for example, I often will make the the transfer that I did that time in Chicago to continue on to New York because the train scheduled to arrive at 250 in the afternoon in Chicago, and it doesn't leave to go to New York until 930 that night.

00:35:21:23 - 00:35:52:12
Mike Christensen
So you have some buffer. But there are there are a lot of transfers where it's it's much better just to stay an extra night on your way there. Often in Chicago in order to avoid any, any big mishaps in your schedule. But, just photos that we're looking at right now are probably the most scenic part of the Colorado Rockies that you see, which are Spires Canyon and Gore Canyon, which are further east from from Glenwood Canyon.

00:35:52:15 - 00:36:18:18
Mike Christensen
And you are like, right there looking out at the Colorado River. And this was a couple of years ago in early spring. So we see the river very much iced over in a lot of spots. Yeah, that was also a trip where there was lots of wildlife that it was just the right conditions to bring the deer and the elk out to that.

00:36:18:20 - 00:36:30:20
Mike Christensen
And I was able it. Sometimes it's really hard on a moving train to snap pictures, but I was able to to get this photo of this bull just strutting his stuff there. Yeah.

00:36:30:24 - 00:36:31:28
John Simmerman
You have this.

00:36:32:05 - 00:36:43:05
Mike Christensen
You never know what wildlife you're going to see, but yeah, like the these were all of the cows that that bull elk was, was out there trying to impress.

00:36:43:07 - 00:36:47:01
John Simmerman
And I think he did quite well.

00:36:47:03 - 00:36:51:12
Mike Christensen
Yeah. Definitely impressed everybody on the train. Yeah I.

00:36:51:12 - 00:37:21:03
John Simmerman
Did yeah. So you mentioned you mentioned, tips in terms of, you know, be be cognizant of those transfers. So getting back to this dream that I have, of maybe hitting the rails here in North America, maybe trying to duplicate what I'm going to be doing for two months in Europe. I, I'm not sure if there's like a, is there a pass that I can buy that is similar to, like a two month pass or, an unlimited number of rides?

00:37:21:03 - 00:37:29:15
John Simmerman
Or do I have to buy, like a specific route and then kind of do what you did and then buy it, do another ticket? If I'm getting off.

00:37:29:17 - 00:37:42:14
Mike Christensen
You can do a month long pass that will give you I forget the details, but it gives you, I think, up to ten segments.

00:37:42:16 - 00:37:59:01
John Simmerman
Okay. I think I found, I think I found it here. So yeah, it looks like it's a 1010 ride. multi ride pass. And then I also see that you've got the USA Rail Pass but that how does that do you. That's also 1010 segments. Yeah.

00:37:59:03 - 00:38:06:29
Mike Christensen
The Multi Rail Pass is more of a commuter thing if you're traveling frequently on Amtrak over very limited.

00:38:07:06 - 00:38:18:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. So this is the this is the one here. It's ten segments. But the problem with that that I had with this when I was doing the research is that coach.

00:38:18:12 - 00:38:47:27
Mike Christensen
Yes. It only includes coach. But you can use it and upgrade pay the additional cost to upgrade. It's a little bit difficult to book because to, to take the USA rail path and book at for the sleeper car, you basically have to either go see a ticket agent in person, which is probably the best way to do it.

00:38:47:27 - 00:39:26:23
Mike Christensen
If you are in a city where they've got a staff station that has, in-person ticket agents, or you can also call up on the phone in order to do it. But unfortunately, there's no way to just book online, which is the easiest way to to book, the the other thing that I recommend too, is if you are going to be doing a lot of travel on Amtrak, you want to sign up for the Amtrak Guest Rewards program, which is very much like a frequent flier program that allows you to earn points on the travel that you do.

00:39:26:29 - 00:39:52:08
Mike Christensen
There's also a credit card that goes along with it that you can get that will help you earn points on on the Amtrak travel that you do, or that helps you earn points just on the things that you spend on the on the credit card. And I've never done the USA Rail Pass just because I am not someone that sleeps well in coach.

00:39:52:10 - 00:40:27:18
Mike Christensen
So I really for for me, if I'm going to be taking a train and going overnight, I really want to take advantage of having my own room and getting the meals included in the dining car and having access to the shower especially. But there are a lot of different options that you can do if you want to do a trip around the country and do it as a tour, I would, yeah, just I would be happy to, to give you travel advice.

00:40:27:18 - 00:40:51:12
Mike Christensen
If you've got cities in mind that you want to visit as part of the tour. Yeah. And I can tell you which which routes are the ones that have the most scenery. Scenery can be a little bit subjective too. There's no way to objectively measure what what the best scenery is, but usually the route that, packs the most punch.

00:40:51:12 - 00:41:30:08
Mike Christensen
And in terms of scenery is the California Zephyr, which I'm slightly biased because I live on the route of the California Zephyr here in Utah, but it's the route that goes from from, Chicago all the way to the Bay area. And it you on that route, you basically get a whole day traveling through the Colorado Rockies and ending the day in the deserts of Utah, and then you get a half day going through the, Sierra Nevada from Reno on into the Bay area.

00:41:30:10 - 00:42:11:24
Mike Christensen
So you. Yeah, some of the other really scenery packed routes going along the Coast Starlight going from from Los Angeles all the way up to Seattle. That has some wonderful scenery in it to, the Empire Builder, which is kind of the northernmost East-West route that's got a lot of great scenery, especially as it passes, Glacier National Park, but also going through well, it's one of the routes that actually it's splits in Spokane, and half the train goes to Portland and the other half goes to Seattle.

00:42:11:24 - 00:42:45:00
Mike Christensen
So you get the either the scenery of the Cascades going to Seattle or the Columbia River Gorge if you're going to Portland. another another very scenic stretch that's actually traversed by a lot of Amtrak trains and even the Metro North commuter rail. a portion of it is going, between New York City and Albany, because you are right along the Hudson River, for the majority of that ride to Albany.

00:42:45:00 - 00:43:05:00
Mike Christensen
So that, in fact, the the Metro North Railroad goes as far north as, as, Poughkeepsie. And that's usually the considered the most scenic commuter rail line in the U.S. you just have to make sure that you're on the the side of the train where you get the views of the Hudson.

00:43:05:03 - 00:43:35:19
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah. It seems like one of my biggest challenges are going to be having, lacking that flexibility of getting kind of exactly what I would want, which is, you know, a comfortable sort of place where I'm doing a longer distance route and then also being able to get off at the city that I you know, at, you know, let's just use the city and say, El Paso, I want to spend a couple days in El Paso.

00:43:35:21 - 00:44:18:00
John Simmerman
I have, you know, but it's not super, super easy for me to do that long segment from Austin to El Paso. It's a bit too long for a coach seat. You know, you get when I'm going. Where I'm going with you is is that you know, it's many, many, many, many hours. And so you probably were like, yeah I'd probably want to to get, you know, one of the room at and but at the same time, I don't have necessarily the flexibility of, of being able to just get off, spend a couple days or a day in, you know, meeting people, interviews, documenting things for the video for the channel and then jumping back on

00:44:18:00 - 00:44:21:27
John Simmerman
on that same ticket. I'm having to purchase another ticket. Yeah.

00:44:21:28 - 00:44:26:18
Mike Christensen
You have to book an individual segment for each, each one of those.

00:44:26:21 - 00:44:43:19
John Simmerman
Yeah. Is it that big of a deal? I mean, is it is it going to be that much of a financial hit for me to, to, to break them up? Or when you do like the entire sunset, you know, leg, is it a much better deal.

00:44:43:22 - 00:44:47:21
Mike Christensen
Yeah. It's really not a disadvantage to, to break it up.

00:44:47:23 - 00:44:48:26
John Simmerman
Okay.

00:44:48:28 - 00:45:17:14
Mike Christensen
It's the, the way that the pricing buckets are, they're very much like they are on airlines. So you're, you're very much if you book early you can get a much better deal than as, as the trains fill up, the prices will well go up. So if you book early, that helps keep the cost down. Okay. You're not at a disadvantage.

00:45:17:14 - 00:45:34:04
Mike Christensen
Like if you look from San Antonio to El Paso and then El Paso to Los Angeles, you're basically the two segments are basically the same price as as the one longer segment. So it's.

00:45:34:06 - 00:45:40:09
John Simmerman
okay, okay. But that's good to know. Yeah, yeah. So in other words, you're you're you're advising me. Don't overthink it.

00:45:40:12 - 00:45:41:19
Mike Christensen
Yeah. Just don't over. Yeah.

00:45:41:23 - 00:45:49:03
John Simmerman
You hit the rails, have some fun, do some activity stops along the way. Come see you in Salt Lake City.

00:45:49:06 - 00:46:14:25
Mike Christensen
Yeah, exactly. And, yeah. Like book early sometimes. If if it's a busy season. And that kind of depends on individual routes. You know, sometimes it's very much in the summer when they're busy, but sometimes people will go on on trips to do leaf peeping. And in the fall, people will will go to see the snow in the winter.

00:46:14:25 - 00:46:45:04
Mike Christensen
So there can be busy times and obviously holiday seasons is also very busy. So book early, I would say, you know, if you want to, if you're really looking to to save money, book at least six months in advance. If you want to make sure that that you've got the seat or the room that you're looking for, I would say book at least three months in advance because sometimes things can get filled up.

00:46:45:07 - 00:46:47:17
Mike Christensen
Yeah, there just won't be any space available.

00:46:47:22 - 00:46:48:18
John Simmerman
Sure, sure.

00:46:48:20 - 00:46:57:26
Mike Christensen
Yeah, yeah. And also, yeah, like I mentioned before, try and delay proof your itinerary. Itinerary.

00:46:57:26 - 00:47:00:10
John Simmerman
So don't pack on too close. Yeah.

00:47:00:13 - 00:47:33:28
Mike Christensen
Everybody swarms people and says yes. If your train says it's arriving in Chicago at two in the afternoon and you're you're going to attend your friend's wedding at 6 p.m., you want to come in a whole day early and because delays are very common, and sometimes there are if it's something really important, sometimes there are extreme delays that that occasionally occur where a train can be delayed like 12 hours.

00:47:34:00 - 00:47:59:04
Mike Christensen
So you want to, if you've got something really important, you want to be able to give yourself a lot of padding. Yeah. And there's like with flights, if there's something that's catastrophic that happens, you can often rebook another itinerary at the last minute and still get there. And that's not an option because we we don't have a whole lot of train routes operating around the country.

00:47:59:06 - 00:48:04:27
Mike Christensen
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to but we're going to.

00:48:04:29 - 00:48:30:00
John Simmerman
Mike, it has been such a pleasure catching up with you. folks, head on over to the website here, make a donation, to the Utah Rail Passengers Association. give Mike some support here. And, I can't wait to see you once again. And I am long overdue for a visit there in Salt Lake City. The last time I was there, you took me out for a bike ride.

00:48:30:00 - 00:48:45:12
John Simmerman
And we saw some really cool stuff. And we shot some video. so, yeah, I need to come back. And now I have an incentive to, hit the rails and come visit you by train. Thank you so, so much for joining me once again.

00:48:45:14 - 00:48:47:08
Mike Christensen
I'd be happy to have you visit again.

00:48:47:15 - 00:49:01:24
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notification bell.

00:49:02:02 - 00:49:19:21
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. It's easy to do. Just navigate over to Active Town. Dorjee. Click on the support button. There's several different options out there. again, thank you so much for tuning in. It really means so much to me.

00:49:19:24 - 00:49:40:09
John Simmerman
and until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again, sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks as well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Town Store.

00:49:40:13 - 00:49:44:23
John Simmerman
Every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.