Transcript exported from the video version of this episode - Note that it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:27:06
John Simmerman
Welcome to the Active Towns Channel. I'm John Simmerman. And today I have something very special for you on your town's podcast. We're going to be heading down to Sao Paulo, Brazil, to meet up with Marilo as well as Heloisa with the Aro program, which is using the bicycle to reduce social inequities. Is a fascinating discussion. So let's jump right into it.

00:00:27:09 - 00:00:32:22
John Simmerman
Well, Marilo and Heloisa, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. Welcome.

00:00:32:24 - 00:00:35:12
Murilo Casagrande
Thank him, John, for inviting us.

00:00:35:14 - 00:00:36:07
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
Thank you, John.

00:00:36:14 - 00:00:46:25
John Simmerman
Let me turn the floor over to you both to introduce yourselves and your organization. So go ahead and take it away. You can flip a coin as to who goes first.

00:00:46:28 - 00:01:05:11
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So once again, for the And John. My name is Eloisa Global Planner, and I work in at Amazon with the project coordinator. And yeah I think what it will in present day and so you are to.

00:01:05:13 - 00:01:43:16
Murilo Casagrande
Thank you all. My name is Marina Handy. I'm born and raised here in Sao Paulo, so I'm always in largest city from Brazil. And I also founder and director of our amazing institute here in Namie. But we can also call it just out or that means RIM. The very important is the real the bicycle we call it auto.

00:01:43:19 - 00:02:29:29
Murilo Casagrande
So Almanzar, who it's NGO that is using bicycles to promote more green cities and more inequality, a large inequality society, sorry, a more equal society using bicycle CC 2011 Yeah, that's our website. This is the Portuguese, the English version and we are very proud to talk here actually thousand like our organization. John So the first project that I want to talk about is leading through bicycle in reinvented bike.

00:02:29:29 - 00:03:24:08
Murilo Casagrande
He is reading from bicycle, the English reinvented the bike, it's the improvised school. And the course that we teach mechanic is indigenous chic and how people can not just use by school to transport the South, but also has a way of life to work and how they are business. And we also had a very important objective that is to promote more movement, more black people, indigenous people into their business in the bicycle business, the bicycle where you off like Eloisa to have your presentation that she did it in Brazil talking about that so more than create new business man huge internships.

00:03:24:12 - 00:03:47:26
Murilo Casagrande
The idea is to be more inclusive and more bring more diversity to bicycle. We all did this project in 2016 and see that we founded 105,000 people and. Wow. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

00:03:48:00 - 00:03:55:14
John Simmerman
That's fantastic. That's fantastic. And Luis, how did you get involved with the organization?

00:03:55:16 - 00:04:24:13
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
I coordinated this project that is this program, living with Bicycle has a project in society that is called more bike participation. And we what we are doing now is to implement a model of bike privatization that create opportunities in the outskirts to be a model of bike parking. So there's a project that is related to the delivery of bicycle.

00:04:24:16 - 00:04:30:06
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And yeah, that's my relation to the system.

00:04:30:09 - 00:04:39:27
John Simmerman
And you mentioned that this particular project launched in 2016. How long is the entire organization been around?

00:04:39:29 - 00:05:18:06
Murilo Casagrande
Since 2007. We made our first project in Colombia, although it's very poor. Yes, you'll be more violent hearing some problem and then we'll start doing something that we should make doing. It's collecting, using bicycle, a motor and bicycles and building these cell buildings. And then we it in two classrooms, another and Jules. And then we teach something about this by schools, a modified school.

00:05:18:08 - 00:05:48:07
Murilo Casagrande
We can also, if you will, the first project we managed coordinate here was bike up donor. Do you remember that little this time it's the so you have the prevented by t living from bicycle I call grading has bike up to an icon and then you have a small one. We shot some nettles that started bike by the other.

00:05:48:12 - 00:06:24:20
Murilo Casagrande
No Hala art something I started to stop the bicycle Don don't say don't don't circle. I don't know all this later. Sorry. That's our campaign to collect it using bicycle I was the V was we used to teach mechanically and these moments for kids we use it at our project Common zero lead over you are onto zero in Portuguese that's another project and then bicycle that we can use anymore.

00:06:24:23 - 00:07:01:01
Murilo Casagrande
We stated for the correct form during the cycle the tires all the the class not just throwing it away, but we send it to recycle. So often Danny is more timely. He is 12 years sorry, collecting bicycle. We collected more than 2000 bicycle and now we want to collect these in more 1000 bicycle.

00:07:01:03 - 00:07:18:20
John Simmerman
Fantastic. That's that is such a wonderful program. It's so it's so wonderful to see these types of programs. I'm familiar with these types of programs because we've seen them. I've seen them in other locations around the world. Are there other programs like this in other areas in Brazil?

00:07:18:22 - 00:07:53:26
Murilo Casagrande
Yeah. You can see a lot of other organizations like our Ground Zero in Brazil, we have they will say it's like the we know of cyclists from Brazil. They so we have all over the country the average city, another organization like in Brazil. But why do they have so much And that's something that we want to promote more, is invited, I guess that is much more familiar.

00:07:53:26 - 00:08:26:10
Murilo Casagrande
And you have a lot of them in the North America, the U.S. and Canada, but also India and Europe, all over Europe. But here in Brazil, what we see there is a lot of projects that just collected use in bars by schools fix then and they donated in Sao Paulo. No, it's beginning. When started, it was just out of Gaza.

00:08:26:11 - 00:08:58:10
Murilo Casagrande
Adam And maybe one organization that used to do that. But nowadays we can see that is a lot of organization collecting, using bicycle and donating for kids, mostly during the strange miles and all of these things. But we are we can see are more and more people are working to school. And then we created a guide called Auto Guide that we did.

00:08:58:10 - 00:09:45:19
Murilo Casagrande
You see how people can make this kind of projects to like how you start your campaign to collect is used by schools and how you can make it happen. Because it's like, why teach kids how to cycle without these minerals? How you can teach mechanics? And we also promote the street Art Festival car with bike positive. So and we also thought that how important it is to support the bicycle future not for the cycle and each mechanic but to make it more colorful and more security and more what do you see?

00:09:45:25 - 00:10:12:22
Murilo Casagrande
So that's not something that honorable created. I always and I don't live in great. They will invite the wheel, but we think our in some actions that we saw like the victims and we can find out a lot of organization and people they are great job here in Brazil.

00:10:12:25 - 00:10:43:08
John Simmerman
And I paused on this particular screenshot here on the website just because I'm marveling at the the the flexibility and the scope of what you guys are doing. I mean, this is fantastic. You're talking about, you know, social innovation that supports, you know, through training and financial resources and ideas, projects and businesses that use the bicycle to find to strengthen low income territories in Brazil.

00:10:43:08 - 00:11:17:25
John Simmerman
I mean, this is like really, really powerful stuff. And as you mentioned earlier, looking at ways to make it more equitable and get more women also participating in in in this this world. So it's not just a bunch of dudes. Luisa, talk a little bit about that. How how much of a challenge is that to get more and more females, you know, sort of integrated in using bicycles or is that natural or is that, you know, happening in Brazil already done.

00:11:17:27 - 00:11:50:13
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
If you can present this? Yes. About the presentation that in the city it's all women in cycling. Just because there are some data that is shocking. I think I was talking to a video that they have this context in Brazil that is really there is a certain equality between women and men in this type of sector. And also cycling here, just to mention something, we have like just 7% of the people who use bikes in Brazil are women, like 7%.

00:11:50:14 - 00:12:35:26
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
It's yeah. And and also we have this context that we we still are really far away from understanding bicycle as a means as a means of transport. Of course we understand it but we have like in Sao Paolo that is the biggest city in the country, just 0.9% of all seats made by bicycle. So what what are we will when we look to the gender agenda, it's we are really finally and it's and we also think it's really important to bring more women to our project and yeah if we can go ahead we have some examples here and think about how we do that.

00:12:35:28 - 00:13:09:06
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
This is just some data that we brought about how the women and decide the industry. This is in the UK and this that the other decline brings. So we are doing that in Brazil. You can go ahead to the medicine and yeah, we have like not only we try also to bring more women in leadership roles here and so our team is mostly made by women, but we are we also try to bring more women in our courses and in our project.

00:13:09:06 - 00:13:37:19
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So and yeah, like for example, living to a bicycle, that is the project that would have presented before. 54% of all the people are women. And it's it's so hard to get to have this number because sometimes we have more men trying to do the course. So it's not easy to guarantee that we have women in them. And yet this is what we are trying to do.

00:13:37:19 - 00:14:12:23
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And here are some examples of some women that participated in courses. So the next slide is about this group called Community Perspective, yet they work. This is a collective that works with psychologists and they participated in our event, many of our projects. This photo is done by control. This one about information and it is we also try to bring more women and mechanics because we know that this sector is mostly made by men.

00:14:12:28 - 00:14:39:13
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And yeah, we have this expert here about Viola and she is a professor in the course, so she's a professor of mechanics and of course, and what is also to understand how we can bring more women and tourists listening, that bicycle can be used. Yes. As a means of career. And this is a group called Get Out Without Pressure.

00:14:39:13 - 00:15:08:17
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And here is also important that we have this intersection between the gender agenda and also the racial component, because it's a group mostly made by black women. And this final project that we do in my class interested in in general, they are so many other projects related, but this will participate and also in my cup on that it is so innovation marathon.

00:15:08:19 - 00:15:09:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic.

00:15:09:24 - 00:15:12:20
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
Yeah scenario but.

00:15:12:23 - 00:15:39:13
John Simmerman
Wow that is really really fantastic and I see here to the that you know kind of who is help helping sponsor and backing the organization you're getting some some some backing. The other thing that I noticed is that on this one slide here, when we were going through the numbers, is that 70% of your staff at the at the organization's female as well?

00:15:39:15 - 00:16:17:19
John Simmerman
I think that's such a huge point, is we need female representation within these organizations if we expect to, you know, attract and bring more females into using bikes for everyday purposes. The other thing that I noticed too, is that in we see this in in cities in around the globe is that initially it starts out relatively balanced and in terms of gender, when we're talking about children participating, you know, boys and girls alike, you know, tend to learn how to ride a bike at about the same rate.

00:16:17:21 - 00:16:46:08
John Simmerman
But then the differences start to kind of creep in. Sometimes the boys continue to ride, maybe for recreation, maybe for sport, maybe for for utilitarian purposes. But for for girls, it drops off. Are you seeing the same thing in in Brazil is that you know, they kind of you start off at about the same rate with boys and girls learning how to ride and then they drop off or is it a little different There?

00:16:46:10 - 00:17:25:02
Murilo Casagrande
Well, what I heard I hear from other women and it's maybe not nowadays, but bicycle used to be a style like a boys game is like girls used to play with dolls, to play like you have a kitchen, have a little home. And what I would a friend of the girls is your radiator. She told me like that always the game is from far, boys.

00:17:25:02 - 00:17:54:23
Murilo Casagrande
It's on the street. It's about the hallway and it's over the ward. And they play for the girls. It's take care of home. They get off other guys. So we nowadays, where we promote in the arena, it's very important to us to talk with the people who works at the schools and Jewel's like that's activity for girls and boys.

00:17:54:28 - 00:18:28:25
Murilo Casagrande
Please go make some juice for our boys and people and then don't have so much things that like it's all really they talk to us that, Oh, that's great that you're promoting that for girls too. But we can see, I don't know, like when we were hoping for new plans of leaving for riding school, maybe eight loosing of the people who want to make the course.

00:18:28:25 - 00:19:04:13
Murilo Casagrande
I mean, so we need to make more communication and partner seems to be the idea like almost everybody in Psycho can work with by school. So we are changing that. But it's not our idea. Very common like it. It's a lot of people is to think like by school and surfing for guys who are very strong and very athletic and that's very sad.

00:19:04:15 - 00:19:45:21
Murilo Casagrande
But we can see like the two. It's the second edition of guys that are set to movement. So it's a huge challenge here in Brazil. And we see that also. Very sad. It's like the idea that by school it's a toy for kids and when you work, you have jobs if you are a woman, all boy. Right. And that's something during the adolescence when the people are getting old, like they really want to get a motorcycle or a car because of they stopped us.

00:19:45:24 - 00:20:20:08
Murilo Casagrande
So we try to show that working with bicycle and cycling, it's not something that you are not growing up, you are growing up in different cultures, but we are projects. Try to show that for young people like living through bicycle, it's a, it's a very sexy it's very high. P It's not just you are a little naturally and you didn't grow up from both genders.

00:20:20:10 - 00:20:24:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, and Luis So what your comments on that as well.

00:20:24:26 - 00:20:50:07
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
I was just thinking that we don't have this data, but I have to say substandard when we are children. We have less women cycling than boys. And I think it's because, as we said, this is really related to be on the streets. And when we have a context of really high quality, it's not safe for women to be on the street.

00:20:50:07 - 00:21:05:28
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So that's why I think this is something that is different in Brazil and in other countries in the world. So then maybe as since we are children, there is this big difference between women's cycling and boys cycling.

00:21:06:00 - 00:21:24:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. How much does poverty come into play with that? Because if if a family can't afford to have multiple bicycles for multiple children, you know, is that a factor? I would think that it has to be a factor.

00:21:24:28 - 00:22:00:06
Murilo Casagrande
Well, do you have two things in Brazil? The first one, that's it's very expensive buy schools here in Brazil. There is a lot of taxes. Years ago the by school was brought in a box to bring things like toys. And toys are an essential goods like food or other things. So we have a very, very high tax device code that makes very expensive.

00:22:00:09 - 00:22:39:14
Murilo Casagrande
The other thing, you want to keep all this by schools. So we know that a lot of people living in poverty in favelas, which is very, very small spaces. So you have like everyone can have a school can be a challenge where to keep it. But we also know and see how in this case, Divide school are used for different the same way school is use it for the dad, go to work and the the children start to cycle in here.

00:22:39:14 - 00:23:13:03
Murilo Casagrande
Divided schools like cycling inside the train every fell out of the building see and that's often all I want is picture of the kids to ask. It's in a very small alley in Sao Paulo after a day when we promoted the zero zero view. And when children all that because they don't have the bicycle is more bicycle, the 16 year 12 wheels at home.

00:23:13:08 - 00:23:49:05
Murilo Casagrande
So it's a some one of the schools that we did in the zero projects, more than 90% didn't have my school at home and less than 56 didn't want to cycle because they don't have their bicycle at home. But when we started project, we donation to a school like ten or 12 bicycle and in three months there's number like almost double.

00:23:49:05 - 00:24:30:17
Murilo Casagrande
When we when we left in the school after two months working for the project like 70, 75% knows how to ride a bicycle. So that's very important to promote and to give this as access to bicycle. And what we see also, it's sometimes the bicycle had a very simple problem, like the tire in a need to be change or something, the brakes, but it's also very expensive to make these and receipt bike shop.

00:24:30:19 - 00:25:10:06
Murilo Casagrande
So we teach them in the evening from bicycle and we also donated for the school a small box of tools so they can have the autonomy to make is moral and simple repairs because that's another problem to keep the main things off the bicycle. It can be expensive for this. A lot of people here in Brazil. But we also see how bicycle things are more to our neighbors.

00:25:10:09 - 00:25:45:13
Murilo Casagrande
It's still being a very important way to transport and work. So it's like it's something sometimes for Maxi we should for people, but we try to show that's not the does for our people and it's not a symbol of people who didn't make progress in life. That's very sad to see. All the industry show cars and motorcycle motorcycling.

00:25:45:18 - 00:26:09:15
Murilo Casagrande
It's very you live here in Sao Paulo in how they try to sell that as a way that to raise a life. And and then the next week I saw an interview with Anita, the Brazilian singer, and a lot of that. She told me, like, I don't have cars, I can have cars. I always traveling around the world.

00:26:09:18 - 00:26:42:10
Murilo Casagrande
So if I got a car and I received that, I leave it, I could have car. These are ideal for young people. It's very powerful because what they will have, it's like a new car and motorcycle. And what we talk at our classes, it's like there's no problem to have car or motorcycle at all, but maybe try to think when have that when you need to buy that because now you're having to think about your future.

00:26:42:13 - 00:27:15:07
Murilo Casagrande
Maybe learning to make it college. You bought university and the car it's very expensive. It's it's always very expensive thing to maintain. So we try to show that then show hasn't seen how a bicycle can be funny. Hi Be helpful. So that's very important and show also that when we make these projects meaningful by school, we invited people like Yelina.

00:27:15:10 - 00:27:45:11
Murilo Casagrande
We didn't these are this cycle the the cycle of Roginsky they see they it was something that we promote to see and show how they're living things move by and school can be nice. It can be more diversity. And we bring it that people from seeing meet the school here. And that's at the rate in the outskirts in Sao Paulo.

00:27:45:11 - 00:28:26:18
Murilo Casagrande
So we showed that it can have screenings. It's it can happen in the entire city and we can see a lot of we know a lot of black people cycling. So that's very, very powerful just to show that for young people, young people here in Brazil and we have a booth also, it's the one center made Guernica I Rise and it shows one of the courses that we did with a He come and see me and you can see now it's the biggest empty vehicle that we have here in Brazil.

00:28:26:20 - 00:29:06:29
Murilo Casagrande
And we visited this course last year and it shows like it was 8000 people in 14 places in the course. So it was very a lot of people want to know more about mechanics and all of that. See, today we don't have a public key issue. Tuition are only course for auto mechanic from bike mechanic And I heard Vito I'm like the lack of people working with bicycle also helps too.

00:29:06:29 - 00:29:44:15
Murilo Casagrande
We don't have more people cycling because a lot of people live in fear that bicycle the bikes is if you broke out bike. If you have some problem you can fix because of the lack of mechanics in Brazilian markets. So what items are worse? And it's more than just to have discourse. It's how it can be one public key crossing areas going to our universities, I don't know, have more.

00:29:44:20 - 00:30:36:12
Murilo Casagrande
We used to do this kind of course in Brazil, but more than any is we don't have anymore just all the parts to school that we are partners. We send some people that they really provide school for the back to school and what is just out of my outside and back to and another course the that creating these jobs in Brazil and in my cup donor the ratio program also it's very important because in Brazil the innovation of this and how cut the ones most of them are just for startups they are looking for the unicorn and blah, blah, blah.

00:30:36:14 - 00:31:09:24
Murilo Casagrande
And it also don't reach this kind of people like in More woman or Black and brown people, because it's way more concentrated to people that has a degree or something like that. So when we promoted something like, like up now we are also not just promoting by school, but promoting innovation, promoting new jobs and new business for people that are not included.

00:31:09:25 - 00:31:13:23
Murilo Casagrande
You just thought, let's do this programs.

00:31:13:26 - 00:31:31:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. And Eloisa, you were attending Villa City. Same as I was in Leipzig, Germany. And you actually gave a presentation there. And and part of it was really talking about this concept of the urban bicycle hub. Explain what the urban bicycle Hub is.

00:31:31:06 - 00:31:59:27
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So we have this context. You I think there are course the slides that we have around talking about because what we are in plan is to implement a bike public consultation. But as we started thinking about it and thinking about the context, that is like, oh, so we our Paulista at least we have, we have already sold something.

00:31:59:27 - 00:32:24:28
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So something that is the doubts that often follow as this time thinking about and planning how to implement a model of bike path. This station we understood that we could create a model but that it's not just for fighting the bike, but we also can have all the other kinds of services there and create there for a given bike or hope.

00:32:25:00 - 00:32:57:20
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And the idea is to understand the bike parking together with other services. So bike sharing the bike shop, as we talked about the mechanics, we also can understand by bike public station and how can we create a model of financial sustainability and also have services like daily rides and advertising to support this bike park in as a free service And also all I can and other services to go to embed.

00:32:57:22 - 00:33:26:26
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And here in this model, what I think it's something new that we are really proposing and that is the cycle as a club. And because we have those, we have project related to cycle. This is six in the Territory and we understood that as we create a space that has a space, it's like some kind of so such as last mile by bicycle.

00:33:26:27 - 00:33:52:21
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So we have also this kind of service that is called a pick up and drop off that we can get a packet or send a package to those. But I think like Logistics Hub, we can afford it service that sometimes it's not affordable and this kind of kilometers that is and outskirts that is in the slums that is close to home hours and so on.

00:33:52:23 - 00:34:01:08
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And yet they get on and we create in this idea of a bicycle hub. And that's that was the project that I presented in the city.

00:34:01:11 - 00:34:34:12
John Simmerman
I love it. I love it. It's great because there's so many different aspects to this. You've got you've got the bike shop, you got the cafe, you've got the you know, it can be this cycle logistics hub. So it's more than just the bike parking alone so that that's fantastic. If we were to give advice to you know somewhere else in the in the globe of getting an organization like aero started what would you say is the is the way to go about this.

00:34:34:14 - 00:34:52:16
John Simmerman
You know it's been around since 2011 now so you've you've made it past seen as some critical milestones here. It's clearly a diverse program. What advice would you have for a city trying to get this started? You know, maybe not even in Brazil. Maybe it's somewhere else.

00:34:52:19 - 00:35:28:19
Murilo Casagrande
Something that we are. I think it's about that. Maybe don't start. We have a problem. The lack of cycling is in Brazil, in the entire globe. And before the cycle lanes, you can support the local groups of the bike kitchen they group. In Brazil, we have a lot of groups that people that go to cycle one or two times per week just for leisure.

00:35:28:21 - 00:36:05:11
Murilo Casagrande
But that's very important how you bring people. So of course, cycling, these are very important. But what we talk when we are talking to other seats of the people, it's about that support the programs for like a Peruvian. It's a problem that teach about bicycle at schools, a program that teach mechanics and help business to improve bicycle at that business, it's can be more simple or not.

00:36:05:11 - 00:36:31:13
Murilo Casagrande
So the same difficult that you had when you were going to build something in Sydney because you need money, a lot of bureaucracy, you have to hate those. But when you do a problem, like to teach kids to cycle, that's a joke that we do. Kids are not the group, this program that we have in zero wheels, so nobody can be against the kids to cycle.

00:36:31:16 - 00:37:14:28
Murilo Casagrande
It's that that kind of thing that that's no argument against that like so it's maybe just taking it from schools in the problem, not the problem the challenge of cycling. And because we also sometimes people ask for it like it or we may see we don't have cycle lanes in autumn, outside or other the people work here, which by school and we say that is we must watch you display that don't have anything, you don't have cycle lane, don't have bike fire kids because that is a lot of people cycling for sure.

00:37:15:00 - 00:37:47:24
Murilo Casagrande
But after that, and when you're thinking about mechanic technology advocacy, something that we thought to about how you can organize it and claim for better infrastructure after the first begins and support these groups. And we are thinking about to find a group not demands that we make this decision to work it to be an NGO, that people work on that.

00:37:47:24 - 00:38:24:03
Murilo Casagrande
So we are not volunteers. We choose, we are not against volunteers at all believe, but we to like I just work for them as my entire the like I just privileged to just work with that is not simple and easy to get the salary but against that example that people can't think about. Like let's remember that some people are working at a salary and models.

00:38:24:03 - 00:39:14:11
Murilo Casagrande
They volunteered. That's very important. Go to think about having these supports so you can have a lot of diversity. People also working and being totally focused, focused on why school and other tapings during work, just with people who cycle it's another thing that our Zero employees are as able like she's in you can lose about how much the cycle but it's what we did in the world can we feel or is are we doing such work because she's a great cycle but because she's a great urban and a great person who makes a great working leading the program.

00:39:14:14 - 00:39:40:25
Murilo Casagrande
And sometimes when we open a new position here, a lot of people work like, I love bicycle. It's my passion, my life that's very important and that's beautiful. And we need more people. But I know maybe she or he is just a bicycle over but one who or donate or program coordinate or or something like who take off your money.

00:39:40:27 - 00:39:48:04
Murilo Casagrande
So I don't think so. Be more open to the kind of organization how it can work to move the bicycle.

00:39:48:06 - 00:40:13:09
John Simmerman
I love that. I love it. Yeah. And it's so important to you. You touched on a couple of really good points there. One is that, yeah, haters are everywhere. Resistance is there to change is is global. The other really cool thing that you did that you talked about there was was know really engaging people who are not already considered cyclists people who are avid bike riders.

00:40:13:11 - 00:40:39:16
John Simmerman
Eloisa for to close us out, why don't you kind of share from your perspective just that how do we get more in this is globally again it doesn't have to be, you know, just Brazil in general, but we've got an international audience here, people tuning in from all around the globe. How do we get more women writing who may not be writing now?

00:40:39:19 - 00:41:03:22
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
But just the point here is that when I started working in I know I really didn't cycle a lot by looking I don't have a title, but not something that I do every day. And what I think is nice about is that wherever closer to me I say I think I'm much more now than I was when I started working in these streets.

00:41:03:22 - 00:41:38:08
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And so this is something that I think it's also important because we get policies to kill the importance of the bike or the benefits of the bike. It's also something that maybe you want to use more you. So just find it. And what I think is important is to bring more women the to the women in cycling said, I think it's important to create programs that understand gender inequality, but not the gender one just of it.

00:41:38:08 - 00:42:02:23
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
Because when we talk about like it's something that I always say is that when we talk about politics, let's talk of social inequality. That is something that but just related to the world, but also the global scope and other countries is that we have to understand that it's not about just the gender, gender, but also the race agenda and other inequalities.

00:42:02:23 - 00:42:28:16
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
So if you want to time to fight against it, it's important to understand all the stuff, explain it, and it's something that I tried to do in I'm so With You. We opened a course and we got the applications. We we try always to think about all this inequality. This can bring more people in our persons and also in the team, I think.

00:42:28:18 - 00:42:58:21
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
And I think it's important to see the thing and this is really just sex and our gender. And just to mention this is also when I was about city, we got the sponsorship of that this bike embassy and what we were talking to them some weeks ago. And we also have an article published together is that it's really important to bring organizations of the Global South to this kind of event.

00:42:58:22 - 00:43:38:02
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
Because of that, because we have two conflicts that are fairly different from Germany or other countries of the global North. And I think their way with delivered is also is like a new technology like it's something really new and this is really important to bring that. For example, Nardo when they send bicycle not just as a means of transport, but also as a means of education, as we talk about, you know, with a will or future as bike ride or so, I think Afghanistan, yeah, it's it's a big range of possibilities and I think it's also important.

00:43:38:05 - 00:44:04:19
John Simmerman
I love that. Yeah, that's great. It also brings up a really good point too, that oftentimes these challenges transcend just gender because maybe it could be something that's not necessarily gender oriented. Maybe it could be race, it could be, you know, social standing and poverty types of stuff, and then just not ever being exposed, never having having ridden a bike in there.

00:44:04:19 - 00:44:27:05
John Simmerman
Maybe that's the key thing. So it could transcend gender because, you know, certainly even even a male who never had a chance to learn how to ride a bike, you know, isn't isn't self-confident. It doesn't, you know, feel like they know how to let alone how to fix a bike. And so we shouldn't just assume that it's that it's just gender oriented.

00:44:27:05 - 00:44:52:06
John Simmerman
It's it's much more complicated than that. And it's it transcends all of that. What a fascinating program you all have there. I am so delighted that we had this opportunity to chat and so delighted you had that opportunity. Louis said to to to attend Velo City. It is incredibly important that the Global South does have this this opportunity to to say, hey, what about us?

00:44:52:12 - 00:45:14:03
John Simmerman
We're doing this too. And it's so encouraging to see the great work that you all are doing and and that you had that opportunity in that platform at Velo City in Leipzig, Germany. Thank you both so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure. I can't wait to come down and visit you.

00:45:14:05 - 00:46:02:17
Murilo Casagrande
Take control and please come and come visit us. We will have a lot of bygones, find some balls. And we also have the sequel to LA itself, as you all from UCB. That's the Brazilian major Cycle Activities organization and also something that we like to aim for our city today. The importance like cycling in the valley to some walkers, but also the bicycle market support more of the organization and people walk street bicycle and at John side there's our bathroom we call it will maintenance.

00:46:02:20 - 00:46:34:12
Murilo Casagrande
So if you want to order who was who is watching or listening to us can make a donation we have a piece playing like you did Miles and other brands that you can choose. And also congrats. They chose John for the 2000 quality cars and already traveling province to see comedians and new people and more people talking about high school and farmers in Brazil.

00:46:34:12 - 00:46:47:01
Murilo Casagrande
It's also very important to show that we bought from our international broadcast and the president. Joe, so thanks a lot and congrats. I love your channel, too.

00:46:47:07 - 00:47:07:02
Heloisa Bento Ribeiro
Thank you, John, and good also a pleasure for us to share our experiences in our podcast and through some visitors. I think we also have this year the World Bicycle Forum in Brazil. It will be so welcome always. Well.

00:47:07:05 - 00:47:24:08
John Simmerman
He Thank you all so much. Ginny and I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you have not done so already, be honored to you. Subscribe to the Active Tennis Channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notifications bell.

00:47:24:10 - 00:47:50:10
John Simmerman
And if you aren't enjoying the Active Towns channel, please consider becoming an active town's ambassador. It's easy to do. So just head on over to the Active Towns website where you can click on the support button. We've got multiple options out there, including Patreon, Buy Me a Coffee, and even leaving a donation for the nonprofit. Oh, and you can also access the active store from the website there.

00:47:50:12 - 00:48:15:25
John Simmerman
Again, thank you so much for tuning in and till next time this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you to all my active towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron buy me a coffee YouTube super thanks As well as meeting to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

00:48:15:27 - 00:48:17:04
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.