Transcript exported from the video version of this episode - Note that it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:40:17
Andrea Learned
I think if you get more joy and more bikes and people riding them and you emphasize that some leaders, some very smart leaders are already riding their bikes for transportation, really pump up the visibility of that in a smart, strategic way, then that builds momentum. Literally, if we got five kind of surprising, unusual suspects in kind of corporate leadership and political leadership to be seen riding a bike for local transportation, I swear for like a week there'd be so many stories and so much I could do with media and just the amplification that we could do of that, that we could make it seem as if leaders riding a bike for local transportation was obvious,

00:00:40:19 - 00:00:53:23
Andrea Learned
and that it's that kind of the behavior. And you can speak to that because that's a behavior change thing, right? It's that nudge or that shifting of the social norm. I feel like it needs to be a shifting of the perceived social norm and then it just rolls.

00:00:53:25 - 00:01:22:23
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. I'm John Simmerman and that is Andrea Learned with the Living Change podcast. A Quest for Climate Leadership, one of the most enjoyable new podcasts that is out there right now. Each episode, she profiles a visible leader in climate action and social impact. I think you're going to enjoy it. Andrea, welcome to the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:22:25 - 00:01:26:00
Andrea Learned
Thank you, John. It's so great to be here.

00:01:26:02 - 00:01:32:29
John Simmerman
So I love to have my guest just say a few words about themselves. Who is Andrea?

00:01:33:01 - 00:02:05:07
Andrea Learned
Oh my goodness. When you get to be my age, it seems like it's going to be a really long conversation. But what I will say is that I am a climate influence advisor and and how I got there is from I was first way back when a marketing to women expert. I consulted on that for a while. That led to me wondering about how people make green consumer decisions which led me to thinking more about women as green consumers, which led me to thinking about actually sustainability leadership and what women's traits were, what they had to do with sustainability leadership.

00:02:05:10 - 00:02:45:00
Andrea Learned
Long story from there is that I got into writing about sustainability, some excuse me, sustainability, and then really started to observe that write about that and then got very involved in NGO climate action, starting with COP21 in Paris in 2015. And from then on, I've just been advising on and writing about and commenting on and and being a presence on social media, on climate action with two key emphasis embassies is said that with regard to this, what we're doing right now I started the biggest number for climate hashtag in 2015 and was really have really been focused on cities, bikes for climate and cities.

00:02:45:00 - 00:02:58:25
Andrea Learned
And then the other thing that I do unrelated to this is that I really focus on plant based food systems transition kind of along the similar lines using my influence and my networks, connecting the dots with media, etc., for advising clients and moving the needle.

00:02:58:27 - 00:03:36:28
John Simmerman
I love it. I love it. And you and I know each other through social media. You mentioned social media there and you know, and the hashtag and and and so it wasn't long before we got connected through LinkedIn, through Twitter. And and it really is about you having these conversations and putting them out. Talk a little bit about that transition of the work that you've been doing and the social side of things and having these stories and then deciding that you also need to do a podcast on top of everything else.

00:03:37:01 - 00:04:07:23
Andrea Learned
Well, I watching the space and my background, I guess my deep background is communication strategy and I would be working with clients and I would be so frustrated that they were really worried. You know, they were unsure or uncomfortable being more visible on social media with regard to the human beings, the leaders themselves. Right? So the difference between a corporate or a brand going, we're having an event, we have an announcement, you know, that sort of messaging on Twitter and LinkedIn versus, you know, it's cliche now, but that that word authentic, it gets overused.

00:04:07:23 - 00:04:30:19
Andrea Learned
But I was looking to see, well, I don't care if thus and so Brand is doing that. I want to know that their leader is somehow tied to that, you know, so that I can trust the brand better was not seeing it at all. The other thing I was not seeing is a real understanding of media relations, which also goes back to sending out press releases at the time of the thing and saying, we've got an announcement and expecting that press would give a wrap.

00:04:30:22 - 00:04:56:12
Andrea Learned
So I'm also now watching. I was really closely watching the press on on Twitter and social media and really understanding how to connect the dots. So it was born out of pure frustration that I want to find. So I'm identifying, oh, that looks like a leader that really needs to be amplified. So I'd be amplifying them on Twitter and whatnot and going, Shoot, I need X number of people follow me, but more people need to see this because they need to know that there are people that are doing this well and they can model after.

00:04:56:18 - 00:05:08:29
Andrea Learned
That then became the impetus for the podcast Living Change. You know, being seen, living the change that you want your constituents to support. Right?

00:05:09:01 - 00:05:21:15
John Simmerman
And here's the the landing page for the podcast out on your website here and talk a little bit more about the title of the podcast Living Change.

00:05:21:17 - 00:05:42:20
Andrea Learned
Yeah, so we went around and around with my large media as my production company and we went around and around initially with like, what would it be? Well, do we need to call it the Climate podcast, etc., etc., you know, looking for names that were already there. But what was it really about? For a very long time we were thinking about actually calling it Get louder, because I often say that I'm like, if you're doing this, get louder about it, right?

00:05:42:20 - 00:06:06:17
Andrea Learned
And I kind of yell about that. And so we really almost were going to call it that. And then I was like playing with the words and saying, okay, we want people to more than be the change. We want them to be seen living the change. And so that's when it was living change. And the second, the kind of part after the call in for that is a quest for climate leadership, which means these are your usual climate leader suspects.

00:06:06:18 - 00:06:21:06
Andrea Learned
These are not the same white guys you're going to see on stage at Cups, you know, at COP 27, COP 28. And so it's a quest for climate leadership in a range of sectors. And I'm pulling out these people and going, these people are climate leaders. You may not have known it, but this is why. And so that's where the podcast came up.

00:06:21:06 - 00:06:25:07
Andrea Learned
And it's been super fun to to, to interview all these amazing people.

00:06:25:10 - 00:06:45:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. I'm going to take a step back to the landing page here on your website, too, because there's a word that I want to hone in on here, and that's the word that you have honed in on here as well, and that's visible. So talk a little bit about why this is so important here.

00:06:45:23 - 00:07:10:07
Andrea Learned
This is you. I mean, this is that's why I say living change. I almost like now I feel like the podcast name should be be seen a living change. Right? So if you are a leader who rides your bike for transportation in your local area, but you're not talking about it, it's almost not happening. And and the other thing is by being visible, I don't mean wearing a neon t shirt that says that I ride my bike to work.

00:07:10:07 - 00:07:27:14
Andrea Learned
Aren't I a great CEO or mayor? No, no, no. The thing is, you're just building this kind of pattern of being seen. Oh, look, there's a bike in the background, you know, mayor, who's. It's just rode up on a bike. There's a bike in the background or, you know, the bus. And so corporate leader, look at them. They're standing there next to their e-bike or whatever.

00:07:27:14 - 00:07:47:13
Andrea Learned
It's these subtle cues of being visible as a human being leading in climate action. Then all of your policies and the things that you're trying to forward and build trust around, it's much easier to build trust if they've seen you do it first. So it goes back to that. The phrase that you're I'm sure you use a lot as well is pedal the talk, for crying out loud.

00:07:47:20 - 00:07:50:08
Andrea Learned
You know, be seen pedaling the talk.

00:07:50:10 - 00:08:22:22
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I love it, too, because that's one of the themes, as you mentioned in the podcast itself, is highlighting people who are doing stuff. And in some cases, yes, they are leaders, they are city council members and mayors and they are leaders within the community. And in other times, it's it's it's just, you know, community. It's community members leading and leading by example and getting out there and doing that.

00:08:22:28 - 00:08:51:19
John Simmerman
And I think that's incredibly important, too, from the standpoint of that visibility, is that because we're a social species, we pay attention to what we're seeing out there in the environment. And so it's so incredibly important to be able to see others doing it. And I like to always emphasize doing it joyfully. You mentioned that there you're not you're not bludgeoning somebody over saying, look at me and look at me.

00:08:51:19 - 00:09:24:21
John Simmerman
It's like, wow, you know, that mayor is riding the bike and she's smiling and she's like not making a huge deal of the fact that she's riding the bike or doing these other climate related activities. We focus a lot on active mobility, obviously, is is is being that is part of active towns. But, you know, what I'm saying is like it's you know, talk a little bit about that because that's very subtle, because you're not you're leading, you're being visible, but you're not beating people over the head with it.

00:09:24:23 - 00:09:41:04
Andrea Learned
Yeah. So that's and I think the thing is, is that that joy, some of us forget what that is and what that's like. But even I'll just name two of the people that I talked with. Barbara Buffalo, the mayor of Columbia, Missouri, is a great one. She's just like, I ride my bike because it's the most fun way to get.

00:09:41:07 - 00:09:59:20
Andrea Learned
I mean, it's the same thing I would say. Right? And then I think Alex Fish also talked about it because he was riding his kids to school on the back of his electric cargo bike. And it's just like the joy is a thing that we forget as humans to tap into. And and you can say ride your bike for climate, ride your bike for this, ride your bike for whatever.

00:09:59:20 - 00:10:17:21
Andrea Learned
And it's like all wrapped in a bow of, oh my goodness, you're going to return to this joy you had whenever you were, however old you were when you first learn to bike and get around. And just Well, I also think one of the other interviews that was so fun was actually the first one with deejay John Richards of KEXP fame, who owns a vegan restaurant in Seattle.

00:10:17:21 - 00:10:31:15
Andrea Learned
That's amazing that everyone should go to. So listen to the podcast. But he of his own accord, he knows that I've got an E-bike thing. And you know, we've talked about it previous to my interviewing him, but I didn't even get to the point where I said, Tell us about how much you love your e-bike and blah, blah, blah.

00:10:31:15 - 00:10:48:11
Andrea Learned
He was just like, and by the way, right? And he jumped in and he said, Andrea, the thing is, as if I didn't know you, you know, you pull up to school with your kid on the back and there's this huge line of people even in Seattle, right. Waiting with in their SUVs for miles. And he's just like, you know, it was it's hysterical when I first got that thing.

00:10:48:15 - 00:11:07:25
Andrea Learned
But my kid on the back of the bike zoomed out to the line, waved everybody else and zoomed away. And he and so anyone who gets on a bike and starts to, like, experience that and we know as active towns, it's for local transportation. We're not saying ride your bike for 300 miles or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, within a two, three, four or five mile radius, you would.

00:11:07:29 - 00:11:26:19
Andrea Learned
But it's amazing how much joy you can get from just your daily life if you get on a bike. But to your point, Joy, the other thing that I get almost from really isn't KEXP is there's a band that I love called Idles, and one of their albums is Joy as an Act of Resistance. And and I actually oh my goodness, I have one of their t shirts on today.

00:11:26:22 - 00:11:46:12
Andrea Learned
So so I take in their kind of their call. They're very involved in social impact. But the idea is that joy as an act of resistance in everything you do. So joy is an act of resistance in, you know, I would say in eating plant based food and then I and riding a bike and then figuring out how to house people, other conversations that I get into on the podcast.

00:11:46:19 - 00:11:59:26
Andrea Learned
So we forget that joy exists. But then there are these really interesting ways that are climate action that would remind us of joy and bring it into our lives. And that's huge and that's a huge part of my life, and I'm trying to spread that out in these conversations.

00:11:59:29 - 00:12:28:03
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And you mentioned the episode with Barbara Buffalo. I just found that so incredibly encouraging and inspiring because of what we just talked about. You know, she's just out there living and she's demonstrating it. And I want to say that one of the lines that she had there was just like, you know, just being out there actively doing that really is is enough of the statement.

00:12:28:03 - 00:12:30:03
John Simmerman
It's just it is part of it.

00:12:30:05 - 00:12:48:12
Andrea Learned
Yes. Thank you for bringing that up, because I used to. So the interesting thing about Barbara, if you listen to the episode, which you have but everyone else should too, is that she used to be the sustainability director for Columbia, Missouri. And I've been eyeing sustainability directors for a long time. And watching them then become mayors is incredible.

00:12:48:14 - 00:13:06:08
Andrea Learned
And so she said that she used to be more visible on social media, kind of trying to post pictures and stuff before she was mayor. And then when she was mayor, she realized that she had a whole team that was trying to promote Mayor is here or there, and so she doesn't have to do it as much herself.

00:13:06:11 - 00:13:23:14
Andrea Learned
But also that people are taking pictures of her on her bike and posting them and saying, I saw Mayor Buffalo on here. So, again. Right. It's this reflection. Give these give the community, give anyone who following you an opportunity to snap a picture of you next to your bike with a big smile on your face have them posted to their communities.

00:13:23:16 - 00:13:52:20
John Simmerman
Yeah yeah. And the other mirror episode that you have out there is of course, Mayor John Blotters from Emeryville. And what I loved about part one of the interview with with Mayor John Borders is that it also is so incredibly important that you don't get pigeonholed as a leader as being a one subject, you know, person, you know, one topic.

00:13:52:23 - 00:14:03:05
John Simmerman
It's like because you guys spent the entire basically the entire first episode, first part of the of that interview. And, you know, pretty much bikes didn't come up at all.

00:14:03:08 - 00:14:31:27
Andrea Learned
Yes. Thank you for noticing that. Yeah. And the thing that draws people to him, right, is his social media presence, people who aren't living in Emeryville, because as we hear in part one, there's a reason that people want to love that guy. He's an incredible human. But we don't know that from just watching him. So we're attracted to him because he's talking about riding bikes, etc., etc. And then you get in and you realize his personal story, the background of his understanding of being unhoused and and kind of what homeless people are going through.

00:14:31:29 - 00:14:55:12
Andrea Learned
And all of that was storytelling. And so I guess part of that point is that he he's on social media and he's doing a good job. He's not waving a flag or like spouting some like really boring, scripted staff. He's being himself. So then all this stuff comes out and then he's also extremely comfortable being himself when he's, you know, in whatever thing you're talking about.

00:14:55:17 - 00:15:05:16
Andrea Learned
And yeah, it crosses everything, but it starts with empathy. I think he would say it's just about empathy and then it's social justice, housing, climate, you know, all this stuff. He's amazing.

00:15:05:19 - 00:15:31:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. And speaking of empathy, it it comes to mind that it's we're in a situation where we know that we need to move with a sense of urgency when we when we think about you know, the challenges that we have in front of us with climate change. But we also know that a large majority, large majority, maybe that's over exaggerating here.

00:15:31:27 - 00:15:34:28
John Simmerman
We know that not everybody's where we are.

00:15:35:00 - 00:15:35:23
Andrea Learned
Yeah.

00:15:35:25 - 00:16:05:20
John Simmerman
And so it's really it we run the risk of virtue signaling and shaming and blaming. And in like I said, you know, we have to kind of back off from shouting and being in people's face and creating this dichotomy of us versus them. Talk a little bit about that storytelling to try to in what you're trying to tap into with us, because that's really when when you think of it, you know, living change.

00:16:05:20 - 00:16:30:18
John Simmerman
I mean, we're trying to demonstrate through through actions and living our lives and specifically people who have positions where people are seeing them. But talk a little bit about that, because I think we run the risk of of kind of coming to a standstill in an if if this becomes just another polarized fight.

00:16:30:20 - 00:16:55:20
Andrea Learned
Mm hmm. Well, you use the phrase naming and shaming. The thing that I talk about a lot is naming and shaming. And so we don't partake of the, like, cesspool of a downward spiral of it. But you did that and you did that, and you know, you're horrible and all that stuff. So the point is, is that and even mine, like, if I interviewed, I can't remember five or six local leaders, I'm elevating those five or six stories.

00:16:55:23 - 00:17:25:06
Andrea Learned
I'm naming and shaming them. I'm getting them more elevated. So the point is, is to show that it's already underway. There are leaders already doing this. And by the way, we are going to love them the heck up. And so other leaders who are thinking about, you know, forwarding bikes and safer infrastructure and better and active towns themselves are going to see that there are leaders that are getting loved up for this and that's going to appeal to them, that will appeal to their vanity as a human being and a leader who needs to, you know, feed their vanity.

00:17:25:12 - 00:17:47:13
Andrea Learned
I have to you know, it's a base thing, but it appeals to their communications people because they get a good whatever. Right. And then it also starts to make it a lot easier to forward even the remotely minimal, you know, push in a direction of like safer streets or an e-bike incentive or whatever. And so the naming and shaming is a thing and naming and shaming is what we think, too.

00:17:47:20 - 00:18:10:18
Andrea Learned
Naming and shaming is what too few do. I'm trying to show that naming and shaming and loving up the few who are doing the thing that we really want more people to do, the more louder we get about them, the more it's going to look like it will be the perceived social norm of leadership. If you're the cool leader, you're going to be seen pulling up on a bike and locking it up and walking into your meeting.

00:18:10:21 - 00:18:17:08
John Simmerman
And that's exactly what you say with this tweet, is that let's make this the US mayors social norm.

00:18:17:11 - 00:18:45:18
Andrea Learned
And this particular tweet, Mark Amber's The cool thing about him was he took the risk right and was my initial kind of test run podcast interview. And so we started that like a year or something ago as we were getting ready to build the rest of it. So people may have heard that initially, but we took it back and we edited it a little bit and we're rereleasing it because we wanted to emphasize his leadership is incredible and since then he's now in the in the House of Representatives in Oregon.

00:18:45:20 - 00:19:03:02
Andrea Learned
And his story when that when that episode comes out, which I think is pretty soon in the next week or two, I'm looking back and my producer, he talks about riding his bike to Portland City Council because of the city he was the mayor of was just a sister city to Portland, Oregon. And he would ride his bike, right.

00:19:03:02 - 00:19:20:21
Andrea Learned
And he'd show up in his like wet, dripping wet thing, you know, just and he wouldn't say anything. He would put his bike back down and his helmet down and people would just know. So he he made biking a kind of a brand part of his climate acting brand. And he did that intentionally. And he's not yelling to your point.

00:19:20:23 - 00:19:50:22
Andrea Learned
And that's why I think mayors like him. He's a huge, wonderful story. And I'm going to name and shame people like him all the time, because I think I mean, I feel like I'm a one woman show, right? I'm like amplifying all these people and naming and shaming and suggesting that their communications teams and that any mayor's communications teams and and anybody in bike advocacy starts to really recognize if they've got a leader that they're supporting who's starting to nudge ahead and maybe ride their bikes a little bit more, give them some love, and that will it's going to keep the momentum going.

00:19:50:24 - 00:20:17:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. So let's switch gears a little bit and talk talk about how the normal normal scarecrow to the normal people who aren't aren't city council members and aren't mayors, what impact can they have sort of doing this same thing in terms of being visible about living the change?

00:20:17:21 - 00:20:42:25
Andrea Learned
They I mean, a lot of them, you know, the people in the bike advocacy community already recognize that by seeing riding their bikes, by their neighbors, their neighbors are going, oh, wow. Oh, you know, and everyone's so you make that look easy. Oh, where'd you get that bike? This casual questions come out and I you know, you me a lot of the bike advocacy people we know, anybody we'd ask is probably said I've converted, you know, ten of my neighbors to e-bikes or bikes in the last three months.

00:20:42:25 - 00:21:18:07
Andrea Learned
Right like it just so each of those things works. The other thing is you may have, you know, a niche group of followers, 500 people or whatever it is on Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. the same thing. We are all climate leaders for our particular niche or our particular little community. And again, it isn't to be really recognized, not to be loud about yelling about things, right, but to be really quietly and subtly putting off cues that you ride your bike or that you think occasionally about not flying so much or whatever all the elements are of your personal climate action behaviors.

00:21:18:09 - 00:21:41:04
Andrea Learned
Then that starts to make a safe space for more people in your community to go, Oh, oh, that's kind of inspiring. I'm going to try that too, you know, or I'm going to eat one plant based meal a week or however it works. We all need to be a little bit louder, not annoyingly so, not neon signs, but we need to be a little bit more visible with these changes.

00:21:41:06 - 00:21:51:15
Andrea Learned
Like I said, subtly, as all these leaders are that I've been interviewing, and we will be building these platforms and we can have each of us as a climate influencer in that way. Yeah.

00:21:51:17 - 00:22:42:25
John Simmerman
So on your website, you know, under the manifesto area, you've got you're on a mission for you to be seen living the change. And that's exactly what we're talking about, being visible out there, you know, doing this and all that. And I'm glad you mentioned, you know, the visible not being like Hive is and, and and and all this stuff that we end up, you know, falling towards because the the dangerous zation of active mobility of walking and biking has gotten to the point now that whenever there is an unfortunate collision, a crash and there's a serious injury or fatality, one of the very first things that the media does is is like reference whether

00:22:42:25 - 00:23:20:13
John Simmerman
that person was wearing a helmet, references, whether that person was wearing dark clothing. Talk a little bit about this because because, you know, one of the most you know, I think one of the most important things we have to do as a movement is, is to stop, you know, this this incessant sort of conversation about about that side of visibility and that side of of, you know, trying to arm ourselves to be able to just exist in our public realm.

00:23:20:16 - 00:23:41:05
Andrea Learned
Mm hmm. Well, it's interesting because actually, my dad just shared with me some link, I think, from Germany about scooters being so horrible and and somebody a biker tripped or a walker tripped over a scooter and died and whatever. And I my dad knows my sense of humor and he kind of got me and I got back to him and I just said, Yeah, because cars never do that, right?

00:23:41:05 - 00:24:03:28
Andrea Learned
Like, no one's ever appalled that a car ran over somebody on a scooter. You know, It's just it's amazing what that is. And it all made me think. I also had a conversation earlier today with some friends at an organization called Covering Climate. Now, it makes me think that we we need a covering transportation now right. Coalition, which is we help to be a resource to train media so that they understand it.

00:24:03:28 - 00:24:19:21
Andrea Learned
So we and again, I've seen this in a lot of areas where we get mad at the media. We're going to get mad at the reporter. That doesn't help. Right. What what it is, is becoming a resource and saying, hey, did you realize that? Blah, blah, blah. A lot of people do it on Twitter, right? They make a correction.

00:24:19:21 - 00:24:44:25
Andrea Learned
I think we could be kinder about making corrections. And I think that we could potentially and, you know, use kind of tag climate media and say, if you're covering transportation, think about this or whatever. The other thing that I will say is kind of related to the podcast is when I was talking with Alex Fish, formerly of Culver City City Council and a former mayor of Culver City, we were mentioning this idea of Livable Communities, which an and you've interviewed Lindsay, right?

00:24:44:27 - 00:25:07:16
Andrea Learned
So Livable Communities Initiative based in Los Angeles, but it's a model that everyone can follow. And the whole idea is you do the car speed, like reducing the car speed. There are so many elements to that that there's it's bipartisan or it's nonpartisan, right? Like it's it's like slowing the streets and, you know, all of these things. That is also a training for media.

00:25:07:16 - 00:25:24:14
Andrea Learned
I think that's like kind of covering transportation. So, again, elevate the positives and kind of frame it differently. And of course, not dial in to because when we lived, let's say Mayberry, I bring that up and that shows my age, right? There's a there is a show I don't even know where it was. What was it called? Mayberry?

00:25:24:16 - 00:25:25:13
Andrea Learned
What does that show called?

00:25:25:14 - 00:25:26:11
John Simmerman
Oh, gosh.

00:25:26:11 - 00:25:41:25
Andrea Learned
What was Mayberry RFD? I don't know. I mean, anyway, the idea was that Mayberry is this town that's so sweet and it's quiet and you walk down the streets and whatever. It's. It's that. Remember that old kind of neighborhood that those of us who are a little older lived in? They have existed. Everyone in their brother loved them.

00:25:42:01 - 00:26:04:05
Andrea Learned
It wasn't bipartite. We didn't know what everyone was voting right. But we all liked living on a quiet street and whatever. So we just have to help reframe and not get mad at the media, the particular reporter doing that right. But subtly suggests that and then really, really highlight all the studies that come out that talk about slowing down the streets, you know, all the stuff that comes out of the EU that.

00:26:04:05 - 00:26:23:03
Andrea Learned
Lindsey Sturman And all the livable communities, people in L.A. know about all that research. It's like slowing cars down makes a big difference. It doesn't matter if the person is wearing all black or wasn't wearing a helmet or whatever, like you, you know, if you were driving slower, you would not be killing people. And so but shifting that story again, right.

00:26:23:03 - 00:26:30:24
Andrea Learned
So naming and shaming and yelling at everyone or figuring out the angle where you can name and fame and just sort of start to educate people a little bit.

00:26:30:26 - 00:26:41:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. So Mayberry RFD, of course, the abbreviation is for rural free delivery, and that's what that was. And it was a spinoff from The Andy Griffith Show.

00:26:41:02 - 00:26:43:29
Andrea Learned
Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. There you go.

00:26:43:29 - 00:27:16:18
John Simmerman
Mayor Mayberry. Yeah, Well, we are of the same age. Yes, that's an age group. And I'm glad you mentioned Alex Fish again, an absolutely fantastic episode, folks. You have to, you know, tune in and listen to that. And I do encourage everybody to go back and listen and watch my local communities interview with Lindsey, talking really about the hard work that is going on in, of all places, Los Angeles.

00:27:16:20 - 00:27:31:22
Andrea Learned
Well, and the thing that I loved because I advise them, you know, I kind of got involved and that's actually how I met Alex Scott. You know, I'm in Seattle. How would I know L.A., right? But I met Lindsay through Twitter and then got involved in helping local communities during a certain period. And that's how I met Alex.

00:27:31:24 - 00:27:51:24
Andrea Learned
And yeah, Alex, since all the interviews are amazing and anything Lindsay has to say, definitely go back and listen to your episode with that. And I part of the thing that I love so much about Livable Communities is that they did frame it as steal this idea, right? So it isn't livable communities in L.A. and they're doing this thing and good luck everybody else.

00:27:51:24 - 00:28:09:04
Andrea Learned
Right. It's we're doing this saying we've pulled this bypass together. You know what Lindsay's talking about in the research she's done in following people. So from there is only going to help other cities learn. So if you're a transportation person or a bike advocacy person in any other city in deliver book. MUNIZ go look at the images they're using.

00:28:09:04 - 00:28:17:01
Andrea Learned
Go look at the kind of world that they're proposing. Steal that stuff and give it to your transportation leaders in your cities.

00:28:17:04 - 00:28:45:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, and I'm glad we talked a little bit about that Livable Communities thing and the and the framing and the images they're using, again, striving to broaden the tent and not have this be the polarizing conversation of, oh, it's the bike people against everybody else. It's like, oh yeah, no, what we're talking about here is viable, vibrant, livable places.

00:28:45:29 - 00:28:50:08
John Simmerman
And I think that's one of the themes that keeps coming up in your episodes as well.

00:28:50:10 - 00:29:10:09
Andrea Learned
Oh, yeah, great. Thank you. Yeah, I keep saying, you know, it's for for the win for everybody, you know? So if you are someone who for whatever reason continues to drive a car, it is only in your benefit that you help make it safer so that people can bike because you have fewer cars in front of you in that line, you know, so everyone wants fewer cars on the road.

00:29:10:11 - 00:29:24:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I'm glad you emphasized that. Everyone wants fewer cars on the road versus everyone wants to see the transformation of the fleet to electric vehicles.

00:29:24:09 - 00:29:41:15
Andrea Learned
Yeah. Which of course, I have a TV, So, I mean, I am out of which I speak. I ride my bike much, much, you know, but I also try not to drive. And then I also I'm really conscious of not driving into the middle of a busy downtown when I really don't need to. And I could ride a bike or, you know, take a bus.

00:29:41:17 - 00:29:59:17
Andrea Learned
But yeah, I think this is really interesting. Again, the here's a solution for climate change. Let's just convert every single car, you know, and now you've seen because the TV that I have is a bulb. They just announced that they're not going to be in production with the bolts. And meanwhile, the bolt is an amazing car super fast.

00:29:59:17 - 00:30:21:24
Andrea Learned
Amazingly, Zippy doesn't you know, maybe the margin isn't there, right, Because they can build a huge, gigantic SUV or truck on top of that same thing. And make more money. What the you know, why why are we motivating? Why is a company not realizing that we need, you know, part of what we need? If you are going to have a car on the road is for it to be smaller and really just match the task that you're, you know, using that car for.

00:30:21:27 - 00:30:33:15
Andrea Learned
So I'm not you know, I think every that story we need to figure out a way to kind of integrate with that story better and say, yeah, EVs are great, but try an e-bike or a bike first.

00:30:33:17 - 00:31:08:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, well, and I think that and I want to be clear with what I'm seeing here, too, is that I do believe that we need to electrify our entire motor vehicle fleet. I mean, every every motor vehicle that is out on the roads really does need to be shifting to a more sustainable energy source. But I would like to see a reduction of the number of motor vehicles on the fleet because ultimately you mentioned it earlier, is that we know that of a very significant number of trips are within easy walking and biking distance.

00:31:08:02 - 00:31:26:00
John Simmerman
But because of our built environment and because of habit, we just we drive everywhere. We it's, you know, in that gets into behavior change, which is my background is we have habituated driving when we go, oh, two miles down the road. You know.

00:31:26:03 - 00:31:51:04
Andrea Learned
Well I think I mean, it's so easy and it is a habit. And even when I've turned, you know, turned friends on to buying e-bikes, they're still so afraid. And my my, you know, I the time I'm going and coaching them for a couple of months and saying, let's ride from your house to the closest coffee shop like you just so starting to twist your brain, you know, or untwist your brain so that you're like, Oh yeah, that coffee shop is two miles away.

00:31:51:04 - 00:32:11:29
Andrea Learned
And I can't take, you know, one side road over and get there safely or whatever. So it's the local trip stuff. Even before, because I just started riding my bike, I wasn't a bike advocacy advocate person. I just was like, This is so practical. I'm from the Midwest, you know? I was just like, So as I got into this and I think it was Barb Chamberlin who you've I'm sure you've interviewed Barb, right?

00:32:12:03 - 00:32:27:25
Andrea Learned
Yeah. I need to. Oh, Barb. Okay. I'm saying you guys need to talk to Barb. You have to do it. There you go. So she was the one who really started. And Melissa? Melissa, One of my blanking on her nails.

00:32:27:25 - 00:32:31:04
John Simmerman
Same with Petal of Melissa.

00:32:31:04 - 00:32:58:05
Andrea Learned
Yes, Most of them all. She Bomber. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Melissa The two of them were early on, the ones who kind of embedded that for local transportation in my brain. And to that point when I'm on. So I have built this climate influence and people know me on various social media platforms and even now I'm kind of getting onto some new ones and I'm seeing people go, Here's my bike from, you know, my ride this weekend or whatever, and anybody else have a good bike story.

00:32:58:05 - 00:33:21:13
Andrea Learned
And I just get right in there and I say, Yeah, I ride my bike for transportation. And then it's almost like, Oh yeah, I used to do that literally. So there are a lot of people who ride bikes for road riding or for fitness who still get under their car for their two mile. And I just like so in I'm a little judgy about that, you know, and I and I could fall into naming and shaming for that but instead.

00:33:21:13 - 00:33:28:27
Andrea Learned
Right. Make kind of a joke and go, Oh yeah, I use my bike for transportation and just leave it there, you know? Yeah.

00:33:28:29 - 00:33:53:18
John Simmerman
Well, and one of the things I love about the landing page, the imagery that you have, you know, here on your your website is, you know, these beautiful Electra Town bikes. You know, these are tools for utilitarian trips. And that doesn't mean that they can't be fun. Of course they're going to be fun. I mean, here on a bike, it's it but they're useful.

00:33:53:23 - 00:34:35:20
John Simmerman
They're utilitarian. You can get stuff done. And I think that's incredibly important to to realize is that, yes, we can we can leverage those people who you just mentioned who are using bikes for recreation and sport purposes and and encourage them to hey, you know, in plus one, let's get a utilitarian bike into your fleet as well as you know I can't tell if any of these are e-bikes but as well as an e-bike or two and that's a great way to to to, you know, make it enjoyable for all members of the family.

00:34:35:25 - 00:34:51:02
John Simmerman
So like, for instance, you were just visiting your dad in Ann Arbor. You know, maybe it's a situation where you're just fine on an acoustic bike and having him on an electric assist, you know, kind of levels the playing field and you can go off for a family ride with.

00:34:51:02 - 00:35:07:18
Andrea Learned
That's exactly how we did it. Yeah I when I was there I, I rent and thank goodness University of Michigan has a rental program that even alum can use. And I just jumped right in there and I got this regular acoustic bike and it was so wonderful because my dad also is aware that I kind of want a significant ride, right?

00:35:07:20 - 00:35:15:29
Andrea Learned
So he knew that if I had an e-bike and I've done that with him before, but it isn't quite as fun as if I have an acoustic bike and he has his e-bike. It's amazing now. So fun.

00:35:16:01 - 00:35:20:19
John Simmerman
Yeah. Go blue. Good. Oh my.

00:35:20:22 - 00:35:21:28
Andrea Learned
Got to get that in there.

00:35:22:00 - 00:35:26:13
John Simmerman
That's right. We got to get that in there. So you were undergrad there, right?

00:35:26:15 - 00:35:27:13
Andrea Learned
I was undergrad.

00:35:27:15 - 00:35:37:28
John Simmerman
And I was graduate. I did my master's there, so that's good stuff. But what have we not covered yet that you really think we need to tell, you know, bring up for the audience?

00:35:38:00 - 00:35:57:01
Andrea Learned
Well, I mean, I guess I have a question. You just when you're looking at this and just in general, your audience may be highly bike advocates. What is they? You know, what do they need to start? How can we nudge them to name and shame more of their political leaders? You know, if they follow me, of course, they're getting a lot of nudges.

00:35:57:01 - 00:36:16:02
Andrea Learned
But our bike advocates getting too sunk into negativity is their you know, tell me what you're seeing as I'm very interested in the bike advocates and how what I'm doing can get louder for them so that the political leaders that I'm trying to really support get their love louder.

00:36:16:02 - 00:36:44:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, I would say that if I'm doing job well, I'm seeing less and less of my audience being specifically bike advocates. I'm seeing more and more people who are tuning in around the globe who are just interested in seeing more livable communities and and really kind of approaching this from less of a siloed area of where bike advocacy or this or that.

00:36:44:18 - 00:37:15:01
John Simmerman
And in fact, I even go so far as to to be quite specific in saying that I don't think that a city that, you know, that doesn't have a bicycle advocacy organization needs a bicycle advocacy organization, I say that's a great opportunity to to do some advocacy work that's much broader and doesn't have to be focused in on a that a such a narrow area of advocacy work.

00:37:15:03 - 00:37:41:07
John Simmerman
And then I bring up the example of like a livable communities. You know, let's let's broaden this and really kind of embrace bringing in, you know, everybody, including, you know, this concept of safer streets and Vision Zero and pedestrian and ADA accessibility and all of these things. And then it's less of the narrow niche of of bicycle advocacy.

00:37:41:10 - 00:37:52:07
John Simmerman
But you're absolutely right. We do we can all think of some of the names out on Twitter where it's easy to get spiraled into hashtag by Twitter and get real negative real fast.

00:37:52:09 - 00:38:12:11
Andrea Learned
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thank you for the clarification on your audience and who hoping to reach kind of broaden the reach even more and that livable communities I mean we keep talking about it. The truth is is that just that phrase whether it's the organization we're talking about or not Livable Communities is completely in alignment with sustainable development.

00:38:12:11 - 00:38:33:08
Andrea Learned
Goal 11, which is U.N. Sustainable Development Goals, right. That have to do around climate action. And I personally don't think that that one gets enough love. And when corporations are thinking of scope three emissions, etc., etc., I'm always just like, well, for crying out loud, look at the umbrella of sustainable communities and go to town. Right? And that's really what livable communities represent.

00:38:33:08 - 00:38:59:05
Andrea Learned
And that is exactly to your point of connecting all these silos and saying you may think you don't care about livable communities because you've only seen it framed as bike safety or whatever, but it's also blah, right? So it's an umbrella for how everyone wants to really live their daily lives. So I appreciate that. And I just wish that in the climate space they could figure out how to really be forwarding sustainable communities because that would include food, right?

00:38:59:05 - 00:39:20:03
Andrea Learned
That would include bikes, this reputation, that includes affordable housing, etc.. So that is part of the mission of me and who I'm representing in this podcast, too, because they're usually coming in through social media and bikes, but they're on affordable housing, they're on social justice, health, etc.. So I appreciate that about what you're up to. And yeah, I think SDG 11 Sustainable Communities yell it from the rooftops.

00:39:20:03 - 00:39:22:14
Andrea Learned
That's the kind of umbrella framing that we need.

00:39:22:16 - 00:40:16:04
John Simmerman
Yeah. So you get involved with Paris, with COP 21, with Paris two cups ago it was it was brought up that again, everything was focused on the electrification of the fleet and the, the Dutch Cycling Embassy and the European Cyclist Federation you know, stepped in and others as well to say, wait, you guys are not even talking about active mobility and specifically the potential of the bike as being an opportunity here, which was just so ironic because it's also, you know, two years ago we had this explosion of E-mobility and electric assist mobility, which is still skyrocketing right now.

00:40:16:05 - 00:40:50:10
John Simmerman
The the bestselling EVs on the on the face of the earth are electric bikes, you know, electric assist bikes and cargo bikes. Talk a little bit about that because how is it that a whole bunch of of you know, mostly white, mostly male, you know, leaders from around the globe are still like discounting, walking, biking and skipping right to electrification of fleet and fancy high speed rail.

00:40:50:12 - 00:41:13:13
Andrea Learned
I'm pretty cynical about this, actually, because I see it in the food systems space to the deal is, is that the easiest solutions are too easy and they're just like, woohoo! And they have to go right to climb attack rate or carbon capture or EVs or you know, they just And then the other thing is we have to be realistic that we live in this capital, a capitalistic society, and it's like we want this transition to happen quickly.

00:41:13:13 - 00:41:30:07
Andrea Learned
What makes it happen quickly if someone can make money off of it? Well, the Ebike industry making some money off of selling e-bikes is just not going to scale. Right. And won't be big enough. It won't be good enough for investors to make a whole lot of money on. So the problem is, is that the solution is too simple, that they can't even see it.

00:41:30:07 - 00:41:46:24
Andrea Learned
They don't think it's going to scale. But what I would argue is they're not taking into account that once we rally a little bit of the momentum, right, we start to make it seem as if this shift is already happening. And that's what I'm trying do by saying, you know, this leader and that leader, they're writing about their bikes around, why aren't you right?

00:41:46:24 - 00:42:10:08
Andrea Learned
This starts to sell momentum. I think we can point to the EU and the Dutch cycling embassy. They they're leaders. It's so normal for like prime ministers or people in the government and the EU to be riding their bike to work. They don't even think to take pictures. Right. And so I think we have to see the social behavior, kind of the behavior and the influence part, which we haven't.

00:42:10:08 - 00:42:39:18
Andrea Learned
But I think if you get more joy and more bikes and people riding them and you emphasize that some leaders, some very smart leaders are already riding their bikes for transportation, really pump up the visibility of that in a smart, strategic way, which I'd argue I'm really good at doing. Then that builds momentum literally if we got five kind of so surprising, unusual suspects in kind of corporate leadership and political leadership to be seen riding a bike for local transportation.

00:42:39:18 - 00:42:58:23
Andrea Learned
I swear for like a week there'd be so many stories and so much I could do with media and just the amplification that we could do of that, that we could make it seem as if leaders are riding a bike for local transportation was obvious, and that it's that kind of the behavior. And you can speak to that because it's a behavior change thing, right?

00:42:58:23 - 00:43:07:26
Andrea Learned
It's that nudge or that shifting of the social norm. I feel like it needs to be a shifting of the perceived social norm and then it just rolls, right.

00:43:07:29 - 00:43:43:03
John Simmerman
You know, where to go from here. So you touched upon something that has also come up recently, and that is, you know, why does Hollywood hate bikes so much? You know, in its in the the caricature of this is that, you know, so often when we see a person in a TV show or in a in a movie, the caricature is this this person's a loser and they're on a bike.

00:43:43:08 - 00:44:14:25
John Simmerman
This person is, you know, is is some sort of a clown and they're on a bike. You know, it's like, yes, there's joy in Pee-Wee Herman and he's on his bike. But, you know, what I'm saying is it's just like so part of that imaging and part of this visibility and and part of this messaging, you know, is seems like it's not just the media and it's not just, you know, sort of like what you've been actively involved with this corporate branding and being able to do this.

00:44:14:27 - 00:44:53:17
John Simmerman
We also have a challenge in, you know, in how society is being projected out to mass consumption, because honestly, we're both failing if we're just, you know, broadcasting these episodes out and it's an echo chamber and we're never getting out into the the, the masses in terms of out there. So talk a little bit about that because it's got to be kind of challenging from a multipronged perspective, not just with active mobility and bikes, but also some of the other key things that we need to be thinking about from a climate perspective.

00:44:53:19 - 00:45:15:21
Andrea Learned
Yeah, well, I mean, there's a whole organization. I mean, there's an event at the end of June called the Hollywood Climate Summit that I'm involved in, and really interesting things are happening in the studios of their sustainability directors. And, you know, and then one of the people that I interviewed for my podcast was Steve Vitola, who is an Emmy Award winning writer and director who came up with a paperless pledge for related to scripts really good episode.

00:45:15:21 - 00:45:34:00
Andrea Learned
I highly recommend everyone goes, Listen to it. The deal is with Hollywood and writing. It's kind of this, and that's one of the reasons I'm such a big supporter of what's happening with the Hollywood Climate Summit is that if you have these values as a writer or as a production assistant, or you know, as a craftsperson, right. So these are the movie stars I'm talking about, right?

00:45:34:02 - 00:45:49:02
Andrea Learned
These are the craftspeople, the people behind the scenes. How do you slowly integrate that? And I do have a fantasy where some guy comes out into his garage and he looks at his very expensive Tesla, and then he looks at his e-bike and he goes, Oh, I'm just going to the store, right? I'm going to go to my neighbor's house.

00:45:49:06 - 00:46:14:20
Andrea Learned
And they do. Natuzzi bikes, right? And I will say that I don't know what the shows are. I'm not ever my mind is never that connected. But I have seen more casual use of, oh, this character just went out and rode their bike and more casual. They happened to be eating at a vegan restaurant. So I think it's there and I think that there's a whole community on the ground that's trying to change kind of that overall narrative, the impact narrative of that.

00:46:14:22 - 00:46:35:15
Andrea Learned
So again, to the influence of that huge influence. And so one of the ways I would say that we can support that is when we see X, Y, Z streaming show really incorporate a bike or the main character gets on a bike or an e-bike. I love that studio up. I love that writer and that producer love that whole team up on social media.

00:46:35:16 - 00:46:54:17
Andrea Learned
Whatever platform still exists by then, right? Love, love up the TV shows that are doing that. It's almost like that transition when all of a sudden New Hollywood couldn't show people smoking, right? It's like we want that to happen where it's just it's not this obvious thing that they get in huge some huge, gigantic gas powered truck. Great.

00:46:54:18 - 00:47:11:06
Andrea Learned
It's just like it's a matter, of course that they all go off and get their bikes and somebody goes and takes the subway. Like that's that's the life that we want to do. So I think that people on the ground in Hollywood are looking in that in that there's a lot of possibility there. And we need to support it and amplify it when we see it.

00:47:11:08 - 00:47:23:23
Andrea Learned
So that's our role, you know, out in the consumer sphere is to let go. Yes. Thank you so much for highlighting that climate storyline in whatever that's going to get the studios to buy into that more.

00:47:23:25 - 00:48:07:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I will say that the many of the people behind Livable Communities in Los Angeles are actually tied to the TV production and music and movie production industry. They're in that part of L.A. And so it's I'm hopeful that we'll start to see some some images and some maybe, you know, I would love nothing more to your point of not only would it be great to see, you know, major leaders doing this, but like to what you just mentioned as well, seeing major movie stars and others, you know, bringing and normalizing this, you know, to to some to some extent, LeBron James has done this because he made a point of riding his

00:48:07:04 - 00:48:26:28
John Simmerman
bike, you know, to the stadium and to the playing venue, especially when he was in Cleveland. I'm not sure if he's continuing to do it in Los Angeles. He's done a lot to get more kids on bikes. But this is what we're talking about is how do we normalize this and make it seem cool?

00:48:27:01 - 00:48:43:19
Andrea Learned
Yeah. And I think that not that, you know, kind of for another market, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been big on E bikes. And we've seen if he's gotten in an accident or whatever, like there are people are following him very closely on that. But I feel like it's, you know, LeBron James that everyone's watching is the current hip, you know, athlete.

00:48:43:19 - 00:49:03:18
Andrea Learned
It's also Arnold Schwarzenegger that all sorts of people really highly regard as a movie star or whatever like but he taking pains to be visible and not you know and maybe seeing a picture in his next crazy bike like again really thinking about being seen doing that right so it's and using social platform. So what was I just listening to?

00:49:03:18 - 00:49:23:09
Andrea Learned
I was listening to Green Sports Pod podcast interview with Senator Cory Booker about his being an athlete, you know, and now being a political leader and his using a platform for farm reform and all of that. And he distinctly mentions, you know, be really intentional about how you're using your social platforms and who you can influence with that.

00:49:23:11 - 00:49:47:27
Andrea Learned
And I think that that's what any celebrity who wants to be continued to this or athlete or whatever just think about how you can make it a storyline that's a throughline for whatever your social media sharing is, because I'm hoping it is for me, it is for you. You know, it's obvious that this is what we do. We're not yelling about it, but we're that person who e-bikes all the time, or we're the person who and I'm here for it for.

00:49:47:29 - 00:50:18:29
John Simmerman
From your experience, what is it about bikes that just we have this disconnect with, you know, the climate movement? It's kind of ironic when you think about it from the beginnings of, you know, the 1960s and 1970s, bikes were central to the original discussions, and especially with the the 1972, 1973 oil, you know, challenges that we also had.

00:50:19:01 - 00:50:25:23
John Simmerman
It's just it's I'm baffled by it and it's not my space. So I don't really understand it as well. I mean, the insights.

00:50:25:26 - 00:50:42:21
Andrea Learned
I mean, my insight would be because I can be pretty cynical and that is that it would take us back to a thing that we what happens now is that our culture drives everywhere. And so the thing that we can change that appears to be the low hanging fruit is that we switched those cars that we all drive anyway.

00:50:42:22 - 00:51:02:17
Andrea Learned
TV That's it, right? That's it. They don't think as quote unquote big as we do, which is like rethink the fact that getting into a car at all is the is the form of transportation that makes the most sense. And so they're taking the easy way out. Right. Which is just do that. And it's the same thing with carbon capture, etc..

00:51:02:17 - 00:51:27:00
Andrea Learned
So much climate tech is just like, well, we do this anyway, so let's just add a little thing at the end that filters something out, right? Like it's this climate rather than going, why do we do it that way? And, and that's the thing I think that's really frustrating for me because I know that I don't know the majority of people at some point probably had a little moment where they you know, hopefully learned how to ride a bike.

00:51:27:02 - 00:51:27:18
John Simmerman
Right.

00:51:27:20 - 00:51:43:07
Andrea Learned
And we and everyone knows that there's that it's like when you're 12 or something and all of a sudden you think, I can't wait till I drive a car and off you go. And that's it. Why does that happen? And any time you bring an adult back to it. So my dad, as an example, right. He went through a bit of time where he tried to ride his bike to work.

00:51:43:07 - 00:51:56:05
Andrea Learned
I remember when I was kid and you got to sweaty or something, right? So then you didn't and then he didn't do that. And so then he's retired and he's like in his eighties and I go, Dad, this e-bike thing, you're just gone. And he's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Right? And then I get him on it and he's like, Oh my gosh, right.

00:51:56:05 - 00:52:14:28
Andrea Learned
If I'd had an E-bike, if e-bikes existed, I would have ridden them the whole time because my dad lives three miles from where he used to work, you know, for 25 years in Ann Arbor. He could if he if there were an e-bike, because sweating is his big thing, right? If he if he wasn't the sweat, then he would do it.

00:52:14:28 - 00:52:44:28
Andrea Learned
So what are these little things that are holding people back? The E-bike probably solves a lot of them. Yeah. And all of those men. So let's say, for example, COP 28 or something. There are like X number of the same old white guys on stage talking about transportation or mobility. You know, unfortunately, it's going to be in Saudi Arabia again, but it would be something like when it was in Glasgow or, you know, you take those guys out and you say you can't get on stage until you ride an E-bike or in Glasgow for an hour, you know, and then you go in and you have these conversations.

00:52:44:28 - 00:53:05:26
Andrea Learned
So that's the thing that I'm I more people need to be reminded that you get on a bike and it is the simplest solution. And even climate leaders right even big name people that you know so-and-so is a climate leader at Leeds this organization or that organization or is the head of a big climate philanthropy. They should be talking about how they ride a bike.

00:53:05:29 - 00:53:22:23
Andrea Learned
They should be showing a picture on their LinkedIn thing every once in a while that they rode their bike to the store or whatever. These little clues are like breadcrumbs and they all add up. I think the advertising thing, the advertising take are saying is that you need to see a message seven times, not the exact same message.

00:53:22:23 - 00:53:38:27
Andrea Learned
Right, But the message is quit smoking or smoke our brand or whatever. Right? You see little hints of that like seven times it embeds. Right. So if you're on Twitter or you're reading or you're seeing the news and you see one guy on his bike in Europe and then you see a thing on Twitter of your mayor on their bike or you, and then you're like, what is going on?

00:53:38:27 - 00:53:49:08
Andrea Learned
Right? And then you're going to start to pay more attention to the bikes or e-bikes and go, So it's all these little breadcrumbs. It doesn't need to be some big again neon sign. It's all of us doing our part with little breadcrumbs.

00:53:49:10 - 00:54:11:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. I was a little bit shocked that bikes as transportation bikes as climate action weren't more of a theme in the climate book by Greta I'm. Have you had a chance to read it yet?

00:54:11:21 - 00:54:18:02
Andrea Learned
I haven't had a chance to read it. Did she talk about mobility or transportation at all or.

00:54:18:04 - 00:54:32:08
John Simmerman
It's in there? It's very much a part of that. It just it I was a little bit dismayed that it seemed like the again, bikes just got skipped over.

00:54:32:10 - 00:54:33:14
Andrea Learned
Yeah, well.

00:54:33:17 - 00:55:01:19
John Simmerman
So and maybe it's a function of land use because they did talk a lot about, you know, hey, we need to be changing how we do land use because we've, you know, and this is a global book, of course, you know, the climate book. And we're looking at globally. But but really, it seems like there is a huge opportunity to to try to to to realize that, especially from an American perspective.

00:55:01:24 - 00:55:19:08
John Simmerman
I mean, we're talking America here, man. We're we're talking freedom, right? There's no better freedom machine than Apple to jump on the bike and with e assist be able to go five miles and not be trapped into an automobile.

00:55:19:08 - 00:55:36:26
Andrea Learned
I don't I think there's a lot of room for a public service camp, you know, a PSA about bikes. This transportation, the same way the PSA is used to come out about smoking, etc.. The other thing I will say is the IPCC climate report. I've seen the articles that say basically it's going to be building efficiency, energy, transportation of food systems.

00:55:36:28 - 00:56:00:18
Andrea Learned
Those are the top four things that, if we address them, are going to make a huge difference the most quickly. So how many of these books are people can't be going about climate, I mean about bikes in a transportation conversation. Even if corporations are looking at scope three emissions, it's like you can count if you help your employees who live nearby, use a bike to get to work like that counts.

00:56:00:26 - 00:56:34:15
Andrea Learned
So I agree with you that that isn't getting enough or strategic enough communication and it's not in the right rooms or with the right leader so that they are talking about it on those big stages. And so that's another thing, right, that maybe the bike advocacy world, I mean, could do a better job getting in with leadership. So there's a difference between leaders, communication strategy and consumer facing campaigns and in my mind, consumer facing campaigns that have been happening for forever, all sorts of organizations are doing them.

00:56:34:15 - 00:56:58:12
Andrea Learned
That's fine. It hasn't made change fast enough and we don't have time. And so we need the leaders to ride a bike for a week and then tell us that they wouldn't love to do that again. They're never going to say that, right? More of leaders ride their bikes for transportation for one week. They're going to be overwhelmed with joy and then they're going to go, Holy cow, I need to get the transportation infrastructure better.

00:56:58:12 - 00:56:59:15
Andrea Learned
You know, I mean, so.

00:56:59:18 - 00:57:12:10
John Simmerman
And that's what I was going to say. I would imagine that depending on their built environment and their transportation network, maybe after one ride, after one day, they're like, oh.

00:57:12:10 - 00:57:12:26
Andrea Learned
Yeah, it's.

00:57:13:02 - 00:57:18:07
John Simmerman
A hack. We need to we need to change our infrastructure. This is horrendous.

00:57:18:07 - 00:57:42:17
Andrea Learned
And that's it and that's it. So the thing is, is like the they'll get out there and they'll get scared out of their gourd. Yeah. But they'll also be like, This would be really fun if I weren't scared out of my gourd. It doesn't I mean, that literally could take an hour. And so I'm almost just like, I feel like buying up, you know, figuring out a way to buy a fleet of bikes, flying them around to climate events, forcing people to get on the bike before they get on some stage and spout some lot about transportation broadly.

00:57:42:19 - 00:57:58:22
Andrea Learned
Yeah. And then see if they can be on stage talking about that without going, Oh my goodness, I just saw an e-bike. It's amazing they're not going to be able to. Right? So I think we have to use this. We're not doing a good enough job influencing leaders, and I want that to be a big part of what I can help move forward.

00:57:58:24 - 00:58:32:04
John Simmerman
And I think that's that's you're on a wonderful track to do just that. You're you're highlighting people who are being visible. They're leaders in their communities and they're getting out there. They're inspiring stories. And I really do encourage everybody to, you know, head on over, you know, subscribe out on your preferred listening platform of choice. I know that it's out there on, you know, all the major platforms, you know, that is out there.

00:58:32:06 - 00:58:58:15
John Simmerman
It's very professional, only done. It's it's not a long winded, winding conversation like I tend to have where I welcome somebody in and we chat for 60 minutes. This is very good. You get right to it. You get to the point and I'm inspired by the work that you're doing, inspired by the work of those people that you're profiling.

00:58:58:17 - 00:59:15:29
John Simmerman
And I really, really hope that, you know, this continues to grow. This movement continues to grow. And, you know, people get inspired to be visible about their, you know, climate leadership change and and living the change that they'd like to see out there.

00:59:16:02 - 00:59:37:00
Andrea Learned
Thank you so much. The podcast has been amazingly fun. The ratings and reviews have been incredible. I also I'm going to put a plug in that for that. If people listen to an episode or two and really like it or get something out of it, please, you know, and I would say that of any podcast, right? So as someone who is new to podcasts, if you like something on a podcast or you like a podcast, please read and review.

00:59:37:01 - 00:59:55:21
Andrea Learned
I guess Apple and Spotify would be the two places to do that. It helps find listeners and it helps keep these stories and sort of this inspiration going. And then we have content that we can share and forward to help convince city leaders and all the people that we want to influence to start thinking more about this. So thank you so much for saying those kind words about living change.

00:59:55:26 - 01:00:03:19
Andrea Learned
It's just been it's a wonderful experience and the leaders are so inspiring and it's fantastic to to share them with the world.

01:00:03:22 - 01:00:21:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. And all of reemphasize and say that they're very bite size. I tend to listen to the episodes when I'm out on a brisk walk in the neighborhood, just trying to get away from editing my videos here for for the YouTube YouTube channel. So, yeah, I mean, very, very approachable.

01:00:21:08 - 01:00:25:10
Andrea Learned
Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It was fun talking to you today.

01:00:25:13 - 01:00:33:16
John Simmerman
Yes. Again. Oh, and again, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. It's been such a.

01:00:33:16 - 01:00:37:04
Andrea Learned
Joy and pleasure. You're welcome. Thank you so much, John.

01:00:37:06 - 01:00:52:03
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining and I hope you enjoyed this episode with Andrea Learned of the Living Change podcast. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription.

01:00:52:03 - 01:00:52:27
Andrea Learned
Button down below.

01:00:53:01 - 01:01:24:27
John Simmerman
And ring the notifications bell so that you can customize your notification preferences. And if you are enjoying this content that I'm producing, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an active town's ambassador. It's easy. You can head on over to Patron and become a patron. You can buy me a coffee. You can actually leave a tip right here in YouTube by clicking on the button on this right down below as well as I head on over to the active town store and check out some of my fun streets or for people swag out there.

01:01:24:29 - 01:01:53:24
John Simmerman
Again, every little bit helps in as much appreciated and thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time this is John signing off by wishing you much activity health and happiness. Cheers. And again, sending a huge thank you to all my active towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron buy me a coffee YouTube super Thanks. As well as making contributions to the and purchasing things from the active towns store every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:01:53:27 - 01:01:55:03
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.