Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:25
Jessica Tillyer
We have like 4 to 500 kids on a good day that are riding. We have community members that have joined. We have tons of volunteers that don't have kids in the school system, or maybe at one point did, and just want to be part of riding with us. So it's become this, it's become something that I think the community is really proud of.

00:00:22:27 - 00:00:42:12
Jessica Tillyer
People reach out all the time wondering how they can start a bike. Busses. Oh, you must have infrastructure in your town that we just don't have in our town. And the fact of the matter is, no, we don't. I think Bike Bus is a tool to reimagine the status quo of American towns.

00:00:42:15 - 00:01:03:27
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman, and that is Jessica Tillyer with the Montclair Bike Bus in Montclair, new Jersey. Hey, before we get into this episode, I just want to pause to say thank you so much for tuning in. It really does mean so much to me. And also, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador.

00:01:03:29 - 00:01:17:00
John Simmerman
It's easy to do. Just navigate over to activetowns.org and click on the support tab at the top. Okay. Let's get right to it with Jessica Tillyer.

00:01:17:03 - 00:01:20:25
John Simmerman
Jessica, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. Welcome.

00:01:20:28 - 00:01:23:05
Jessica Tillyer
Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:23:07 - 00:01:29:23
John Simmerman
Jessica. I love giving my guest just an opportunity to introduce themselves. So who the heck is Jessica?

00:01:29:25 - 00:01:57:16
Jessica Tillyer
Well, thanks. So, I am a resident of Montclair, new Jersey, where we have a very active bike base. My background is actually in in theater and in the arts. And so that's kind of where I got my start. And then from there, I ended up in the world of design and then kind of moved into strategy. And so I've always taken a very experienced lead and our approach to things.

00:01:57:27 - 00:02:23:15
Jessica Tillyer
What I do now is I work with celebrities and I guess like change makers and people in the business world that really want to reimagine the status quo, to help them come up with creative, different ideas that make the world a better place. So bypass was a natural fit into that work that I do professionally.

00:02:23:17 - 00:02:34:15
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it, yeah. And we see your t shirt there, and we'll pop on over and take a look at this fun logo. I love this logo. And you just look at this and you can't help but smile, right?

00:02:34:18 - 00:02:56:07
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, when we were thinking about the way that we wanted to almost brand the Montclair Bike Bus, and also we really see actually what we're doing with Montclair Bike Bus as being almost open source IP. We want anybody to be able to take what we're doing and make it their own. And that's already happening.

00:02:56:07 - 00:03:16:16
Jessica Tillyer
People are, you know, contact us almost every day from all over the world asking, hey, can we borrow what you did? And we say, yes, please. So we always share it. But really what we wanted to do with like, this logo and with some of what we've done with the design is make it feel both grassroots and like a real thing.

00:03:16:21 - 00:03:41:19
Jessica Tillyer
You know, we didn't want it to feel too homespun, but we really did want it to be obviously something that's like bubbling up from the bottom versus coming from the top, because that's what's true about Bike Bus. So much of what the bypass movement is all about is our streets aren't safe for kids. You know, we've prioritized drivers, we've prioritized cars on the road.

00:03:41:21 - 00:04:10:09
Jessica Tillyer
And what Bike Bus really seeks to do is create what I call social infrastructure so that kids can bike around safely. And the hope is that by creating this grasslands, a grassroots led movement, it influences leaders of towns to prioritize all people and all different types of forms of transportation on the street.

00:04:10:12 - 00:04:33:02
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah. I'm going to pull up the map here and give some context for the listeners and the viewers. For the listeners only, you can kind of like, describe it and describe Montclair, new Jersey, in terms of its, relative, location to, to New York City and everything. So, yeah, there you are. You're not very far.

00:04:33:04 - 00:05:00:15
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah, there we are. So, yeah, we're super close to New York City. It's also worth noting we're close to Hoboken, and Jersey city. Yeah. Which are two cities that, don't get as much of a spotlight as New York, but actually are two of the safest cities in America to, be a, pedestrian or, to be a cyclist or a biker.

00:05:00:18 - 00:05:38:28
Jessica Tillyer
And so. Yeah, so, so Montclair is a very interesting town in that it is, has historically been a very diverse town in many different ways. There's socio economic diversity here. It's a very dense town. So new Jersey in general is actually one of, has the, the, one of the highest levels of, of population density, which makes transportation really interesting because it's complete, neatly ripe and apt for public transportation and, and for a network of, of bike transportation.

00:05:39:00 - 00:06:04:29
Jessica Tillyer
And La Clair historically has always done things a little bit differently. So back in the 70s they unsound schools. So every single school in Montclair is a magnet school. So if I lived, let's say, half a mile away from the nearest public school, that's not necessarily the school that my kid is going to go to. They actually my kids go to a school that is three miles away from where we live.

00:06:04:29 - 00:06:37:08
Jessica Tillyer
And that was a really awesome, intentional thing to create this, integration within the school system. And we feel really proud about that. The Montclair is also a place that people enjoy aging in place. You know, there's there's, folks of all ages. So we have great age diversity. We have, I guess, because of our proximity to New York and because it's so easy to get on a plane and fly to to Europe or, to California from from Montclair.

00:06:37:16 - 00:06:52:00
Jessica Tillyer
Newark is just 30 minutes away. We have a lot of people from all over the world and people that are just doing really, really interesting things. So there's a real, intelligence to this town.

00:06:52:02 - 00:07:23:27
John Simmerman
I'm glad you mentioned Jersey city and and Hoboken as well, to give some context, because, you're absolutely right. They're not getting enough press for just how amazingly safe they are. These are two cities that, you know, the, the leadership of those cities have really committed to Vision Zero and doing what they can to improve upon. And I think I can't remember which Hoboken, new Jersey, but I think they got going on seven years now without a famous Hoboken streets.

00:07:24:03 - 00:07:25:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's Hoboken.

00:07:25:08 - 00:07:26:03
Jessica Tillyer
It's amazing.

00:07:26:05 - 00:07:51:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, it really is. And I'm noticing here, too. So Montclair is a township, and and I don't know the difference between a city and a township. You can you can describe that. But I do notice this little, release here from, from today, I guess, published on December 10th. 2024. Montclair named among counties most desirable suburbs in America.

00:07:51:13 - 00:07:57:13
John Simmerman
And this sort of like what you were describing. It sounds like a very high quality of life place.

00:07:57:16 - 00:08:26:12
Jessica Tillyer
I think it is. I think it really is a high quality of life place. I mean, that's part of the reason that we chose to live here. That said, I think the citizens have always had higher hopes for Montclair. And, you know, Hoboken and Jersey city are two shining examples. You know, there we can't we can't really compare a city of that size to a town like Montclair.

00:08:27:00 - 00:08:59:15
Jessica Tillyer
In terms of population and resources. But I think that something that I'm just hearing more and more from residents in our town and in a post-pandemic world where millennials are have kind of, you know, old, I guess, older millennials with kids left the cities during the pandemic, moved to communities like Montclair, you know, moved to suburban communities and now are demanding more, you know, are really demanding more.

00:08:59:18 - 00:09:22:24
Jessica Tillyer
Montclair is actually really special and unusual, too, because it was designed before the advent of cars. So, as you showed on the map, it's actually a very long, sort of narrow town. And there's a rail, way that connects the entire town that that goes to all the cities that we just mentioned, and then also goes further into new Jersey.

00:09:22:24 - 00:09:52:29
Jessica Tillyer
So there's this historic public transportation. There's also streets that are wide and and were designed for people to be walking on and for horses, you know, there's still a lot of those parks for horses. So anybody that thinks that driving is the norm, it's actually not true. You know, it's only been maybe the last, 60 or 70 years that that's been the way that people have, gotten around anywhere.

00:09:53:05 - 00:10:18:08
Jessica Tillyer
But especially when I'm looking at my own town and really thinking about the future of this town and hearing what citizens want. It is a place in which children, people of all ages, really can get around our town safely to do small things like go to the grocery store on a bike, or walking and not be, in fear of being hit by a car.

00:10:18:10 - 00:10:41:20
John Simmerman
You know, it's interesting to that. You had mentioned, you know, you channeled the community, and it sounds like this is an engaged community. And in fact, when I go to your website at the Montclair Bike Bus, Dawg, I see that when you when you describe it right there about who we are, you're like, yeah, we're Montclair parents and community supporters who want to make it, you know, joyful, fun and safe to bike to school together.

00:10:41:22 - 00:11:04:06
John Simmerman
And and you're right. I mean, it's not a particularly big place. I mean, it's only like 6.5mi². So it's a fairly complex, compact, location. And then here's the list of the schools, that you have the roots on. What's the origin story? How did this come about? I mean, obviously walking school busses have been a thing for a long time.

00:11:04:08 - 00:11:22:26
John Simmerman
I've profiled some in the in the New York City area and, but how what's the origin story for for Montclair Bike Bus? How did this really come about? And and get the ball rolling. And while you're talking about that, I may, you know, go through some photos and maybe a few videos. You.

00:11:22:28 - 00:11:45:25
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. Please. Please. Yeah. It'd be great to share some of those videos. So it was truly kismet. I always say like this was meant to happen. So there was a group of parents. None of us knew each other. All of our kids went to different schools, and we all had been sharing about. And we are all avid. So like, I don't want to say it, avid cyclist.

00:11:46:05 - 00:11:50:03
Jessica Tillyer
We were all like just people that like to bike ride, you know?

00:11:50:05 - 00:11:50:22
John Simmerman
There you go.

00:11:50:26 - 00:12:14:27
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah, yeah. So we are all people that, loved to bike ride and wanted to do that with our children safely to school. I know for me, I, has ridden bikes my whole life like I, there's videos that my, my parents have taken of me, like on a bike before I knew how to walk. And that's just always how it's been.

00:12:15:09 - 00:12:42:01
Jessica Tillyer
When I lived, I lived in New York City for years, and like, I was biking everywhere as soon as I had kids and they were the appropriate age to come on a bike, we put them on bikes. And then when I moved to Montclair for the first time in my life as, somebody that loves to bike everywhere, I felt kind of lonely because I was biking by myself to school, and I just didn't see kind of what you see on screen here.

00:12:42:24 - 00:13:21:05
Jessica Tillyer
You know, this community of other people I wanted to ride. So I was coming from that place, and it turned out that there was actually a lot of people that were also coming from that place that really wanted this type of community, that wanted people to bike with, the magical thing is, because of what I explained earlier about Montclair being an unknown town, we all had our kids going to different schools, so we all got sort of introduced, through, I guess, just the small bike world that exists out here.

00:13:21:08 - 00:13:59:08
Jessica Tillyer
And we were emailing for a while, and then at 1.1 of us said, okay, enough emails, let's get on a zoom and let's talk about how we're going to make this happen. So we had this original group of I think it was like maybe 7 or 8 parents, who all wanted to create a bike bus. I think some of the examples we have seen is like in Barcelona, you know, there was all these studies and, research coming out and of course, my dear friend now, Sam Baldo, you know, seeing his videos and just seeing that this was really possible.

00:13:59:11 - 00:14:24:28
Jessica Tillyer
So we started meeting every single Wednesday night at 8 p.m. it was like religious. We all were there and we would meet for two hours, and we felt committed from the very beginning. We didn't want to just create this for one of the schools. We wanted to create this for the whole town. And that's actually what's kind of different about Montclair Bike Bus, a lot of bike busses.

00:14:24:28 - 00:14:46:24
Jessica Tillyer
It's like one parent or one teacher at one school, but we really wanted to create a system. So we had the perfect team, that group of eight parents. So we had one person that is an economist and knew how to make maps like he's he's a numbers guy. If you could make all the maps to all the different schools.

00:14:46:26 - 00:15:12:13
Jessica Tillyer
We had one person that, actually this person here, Steven, who's, social impact sort of CEO of a whole bunch of different companies. And so he kind of took on this, like, project manager, cool hat. We had another person that's a labor organizer, and he he just, like, knew how to rally people. They had like background which is and brand and marketing and and culture change.

00:15:12:13 - 00:15:33:22
Jessica Tillyer
So like I was just thinking about strategically how do we get people to want to be a part of this. We had a digital designer. We had like basically all the skills that we needed a journalist to, like, really make this thing, not just one small thing, but I think from the very beginning we're like, we want this to be huge.

00:15:33:29 - 00:15:59:05
Jessica Tillyer
At least that's how I felt. And so what we did, and I think that this for anybody that's listening that wants to start a bike bus, this is something that I highly recommend. Before we did the bike bus, we did this pre launch event, which was we called it a donut ride. Like who doesn't love donuts and it was just such an easy way to draw attention.

00:15:59:07 - 00:16:24:23
Jessica Tillyer
And at that event it wasn't a true bike bus. We started at one location and we wrote our bikes to this great local donut shop. We had donuts for everybody. We gave out t shirts. We gave out stickers. We had people sign up. At that point, we had created a WhatsApp. We started getting people into the WhatsApp and that was like the perfect way to build our initial audience.

00:16:25:10 - 00:16:52:00
Jessica Tillyer
Who became the future of the bike bus. And then from there, and I guess so that was that was early March, and then we officially launched, in April, and we went to all the different schools. And at first it was like, so these are our t shirts. First it was maybe like 5 or 6 kids going to each school.

00:16:52:03 - 00:16:56:04
John Simmerman
I was just kind ask that. So it started off modest and then it and.

00:16:56:04 - 00:17:17:14
Jessica Tillyer
Then it's super modest. Yeah. It started off so modest, you know, and I think I remember the initial numbers because we've kept track of the numbers. We have this graph. I mean we're so or so like it's kind of funny how professional we are about everything, but I think that is our background. We just want it to be, a certain level of professional.

00:17:17:16 - 00:17:52:21
Jessica Tillyer
We keep a graph, a week after week graph to, to look at, across. And like those first two weeks, we do the bike bus every Friday and that also I tell everybody you have to pick what you're going to do it and really commit to it, rain or shine. You know, you're always going to be out there and people who can depend on you being out there, and if they don't go, that's fine, but they feel FOMO because you you're out there like you're still showing the videos and the pictures.

00:17:52:24 - 00:18:22:03
Jessica Tillyer
But yeah, it started off super modest. So started off with like maybe 5 or 6 people. I start off kind of looking like this actually, and then over time it grew and grew and something actually that was really important to us and strategic was the t shirts giving out the t shirts. And on Fridays kids would wear the t shirts, and then other kids would say, what's that?

00:18:22:06 - 00:18:46:06
Jessica Tillyer
And then the kid would explain it. And so what we started to hear from parents is their kids coming home saying like, hey, there's this thing happening called bike bus. I want to do bike bus, right? And that, that actually, I don't know if you know about this, but, recycling in the 80s, the way that they got families to recycle was going through kids.

00:18:46:06 - 00:19:11:01
Jessica Tillyer
They gave kids this green bucket at school and they said, bring this home and tell your parents that recycling is important. And we basically took the same model of give it to the kids and make the kids ask the grown ups for it. So now we have like 4 to 500 kids on a good day that are riding, we have community members that have joined.

00:19:11:02 - 00:19:32:14
Jessica Tillyer
We have tons of volunteers that don't have kids in the school system, or maybe at one point did, and just want to be part of riding with us. So it's become this it's become something that I think the community is really proud of. You can see here we have these bike bus yard signs on one side that says we love the Montclair Bike Bus.

00:19:32:14 - 00:19:56:04
Jessica Tillyer
And on the other side it says kids biking drive slowly. And that is like, I mean, I've printed those twice. I've printed 500 of them twice. And it's the thing that is in everybody's yard. I was actually just talking to a real estate agent and she said, oh, I always, you know, when somebody is going to move to the community, I always point out the yard signs.

00:19:56:04 - 00:20:04:03
Jessica Tillyer
I always pull up the website because, you know, to the point you made earlier, this is the kind of stuff that people want in a town.

00:20:04:06 - 00:20:27:07
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's it's and it's such a very, very good point. When we think of a place that's vibrant and has a high quality of life and people want to live there, and I love the double entendre of my name, Active Towns, because I tell people that, yeah, I mean, these are places that embrace physical activity and encourage people to live a healthier, lifestyle.

00:20:27:12 - 00:20:55:03
John Simmerman
It means that we have the ability to get to or meaningful destinations by walking and biking and, and, you know, parks are plentiful. You know, you can get to a park within a 5 to 10 minute walk and etc., etc., etc., in other words. So there's those activity assets. But the double entendre part of it is, is that when you have a city that embraces a community that embraces active mobility and and active lifestyles, they also became and they become an engaged populace.

00:20:55:08 - 00:21:18:14
John Simmerman
So it's active in that sense too. It's like that. Oh yeah. I mean, because it's so true. Because when we get out of our hermetically sealed coat of cars and engage with our environment, it's hard not to become active within your community and engaged within your community and want to see it become a better, more, meaningful.

00:21:18:14 - 00:22:02:21
John Simmerman
And and you really just beloved place for everyone, all ages, all abilities. So I love the point that you made about making sure that the the bike bus is consistent. It's it's every Friday. You can count on it. We're going to be doing it. The follow up question that I have for Sam and for, some of the other folks that I've interviewed from around the globe because I've had Jordi on from, from Barcelona as well, is talking about the fact that one of our biggest challenges in, in our societies is that the our built environment should be welcoming to all ages and abilities, 24 seven 365 days of the year.

00:22:02:23 - 00:22:24:06
John Simmerman
Do you get the sense that this is helping with that changing of awareness and framing so that you can kind of lean in towards what's happening in Hoboken and what's happening in Jersey city of making it safe and inviting for all ages and abilities to get to their meaningful destinations every day.

00:22:24:09 - 00:22:52:09
Jessica Tillyer
100%. Yes. Yeah. So I can tell you a story of there's so many stories I've heard of the type of transformation that I want to see. One of those stories is there is a parent that I met at an event that was happening at Montclair Public Library. There were, screening a documentary about streets and street violence and how to create safer streets.

00:22:52:11 - 00:23:23:10
Jessica Tillyer
Right. And you know, there was a community panel afterwards, and everybody was kind of sharing their thoughts. And this woman said, I would never, ever bike in Montclair. It's just not safe. And I'm so scared driving, too, because I'm so scared I'm going to hit somebody. What, like small thing I'll say is that, Essex County, where Montclair is, is actually the seventh most fatal, county in America to be a pedestrian or a biker.

00:23:23:16 - 00:23:41:06
Jessica Tillyer
So her fear is actually quite real. Right. So she said that, and I actually that motivated me, you know, hearing her say. And that motivated me because I felt like I wanted to create a difference for people like her.

00:23:41:09 - 00:23:50:26
John Simmerman
And this is a great image right here. This little this little, little video clip, I think is a good, good point to that is, this is what I call the active mobility SUV, right?

00:23:50:28 - 00:24:15:09
Jessica Tillyer
Oh, no, I always I always tell people it's my second car, and honestly, I can fit more groceries on my cargo bike than I can in the backseat of my car. Yeah. You know, it's just like it's it's one. Yes, it's it's it's an active, transportation SUV. Absolutely. I have three kids on that bike, too. I mean, it's tight and I fit three kids, so.

00:24:15:09 - 00:24:34:16
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. So this so this woman that I met, this event who said I will never ride my bike. I would never let my kids ride my bike. I actually followed up with her, and I personally invited her to the donut ride. And I said, listen, we are it's going to be a safer than you're going to be in a group of people, I promise you.

00:24:34:18 - 00:24:56:25
Jessica Tillyer
But we'll keep you safe and I'll I'll just show you what's possible. So she came and at the end she said I had the best time. There was so much fun. And I said, well, we're starting the bike bus soon and I hope that you'll join. So she did. And her daughter and her and her husband fell in love with the bike bus, like every week.

00:24:56:25 - 00:25:19:26
Jessica Tillyer
Now they are 100% our MVP's. Like they're out there every single Friday. You know, on the coldest days. So it was really, really cold last week and they were out there. And then one day I saw her riding her bike by herself. And this was a person that three months ago said that she would never ride a bike in Montclair, that it wasn't safe.

00:25:19:28 - 00:25:47:01
Jessica Tillyer
And, and then next time I saw her, I said, hey, I saw you riding your bike recently. And she said, oh, I ride my bike everywhere now. I just had to get over the hurdle. I had to feel the sense of people cared about my safety. And what you all have created is this sense of protection and safety, even if it's not all there.

00:25:47:03 - 00:26:14:24
Jessica Tillyer
And I mean, part of an active town is more people walking and biking like, you know, study after study shows the more people that are biking, actually, the safer it is for everybody, including people driving cars. So that to me, those are the stories I love to hear. Another story that was incredible recently is there's a mom that I know that doesn't have a car.

00:26:14:26 - 00:26:31:19
Jessica Tillyer
She doesn't have a driver's license, she doesn't know how to drive. So she can get to where she can walk or, you know, somebody can give her a ride. She'll join them. But she said to me, listen, I don't have a bike, but I would love a bike. And if I had a bike, I would join the bike path.

00:26:31:22 - 00:26:52:26
Jessica Tillyer
And through our bypass community, we're able to find her bike that had, one of those things. It's called a ride along so a kid can be on the back. And she got that. We found a bike for her older daughter. They joined the bypass. They're also MVP's now. You know, like they come all the time. And then I.

00:26:52:26 - 00:27:12:19
Jessica Tillyer
And I saw her recently and I said, hey, you know, how's it going with the bike? And she said, I've taken my son. She has like a three year old son to the library every week and never taken him to the library because she didn't have a way to get there. But now that she has this bike, she can.

00:27:12:19 - 00:27:37:29
Jessica Tillyer
So I think to me that those are the stories that I love to hear and as as a woman that, you know, always loved to ride my bike, rode my bike in like 2008 when it was honestly mostly still men because, you know, it's it was it was unsafe. And I think for good reasons, mothers especially are super concerned about the safety of their children.

00:27:38:02 - 00:27:58:00
Jessica Tillyer
And if marketers are telling them, the safest thing you can do is buy this big SUV for your child. You know, I understand that I have empathy for that. But what I want to show more and more mothers, because it is mothers that are making decisions and for the most part for their families, is just try out biking.

00:27:58:03 - 00:28:23:27
Jessica Tillyer
And then if they try out biking, then they start to look around and think, Actually, there's ways that our town should be keeping me safe and my children safe, and then they end up going to town council meetings, and then they end up maybe running for mayor, you know? And so I think like that, that to me, that's the progression that I really, really want to see is like what starts and bike bus is almost from like a marketing perspective.

00:28:23:27 - 00:28:32:21
Jessica Tillyer
It's a funnel that gets more and more people to be exactly what you're saying, like active members of their towns and active citizens.

00:28:32:23 - 00:28:50:10
John Simmerman
Exactly. And and I'm lingering on this particular photo, because I want to dive a little bit deeper into your network of volunteers and the people who are engaged to make this happen every Friday. So, so take it away to tell us more about this particular image.

00:28:50:12 - 00:29:15:10
Jessica Tillyer
So this is the the woman that, is pointing at the person in the vest that is the principal at one of our schools, and then the person in the vest is one of our volunteers. I love that image, because it does just show the sort of mutual support that you need. So with each bike bus, we, have clarified some different roles.

00:29:15:10 - 00:29:30:07
Jessica Tillyer
So we have a captain and we have a caboose. So somebody in the front, somebody in the back, and then we have what we call sheepdogs. And it's funny because we just made this up, and now we see all these bike busses using this terminology. And we're like great colleagues.

00:29:30:09 - 00:29:38:25
John Simmerman
You know, I get to jump in and say, I applaud this move. This is fantastic. I grew up on a sheep ranch. And so there you go.

00:29:38:28 - 00:29:41:19
Jessica Tillyer
Okay. So you so, you know, the power of a sheepdog.

00:29:41:25 - 00:29:43:28
John Simmerman
Absolutely.

00:29:44:01 - 00:29:53:25
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. So so our our sheep dogs are adults that ride on the outside of camp. So they're basically like a human barrier against traffic.

00:29:54:00 - 00:29:54:18
John Simmerman
Right? Right.

00:29:54:23 - 00:30:16:24
Jessica Tillyer
And then we have a few other roles. So, so we have people that we call sprinters. Those are basically our coworkers that, you know, go way ahead and, and we'll block intersections. So all of those roles are very important on our by bus. And it's all volunteers, you know, it's all people that just want to be part of bike paths.

00:30:16:26 - 00:30:47:08
Jessica Tillyer
We want to do this. We kind of trade off some of those roles, but definitely our our captains of each bike bus remain consistent week after week. And then the other important part is I really believe, especially with bike stuff, because the system is kind of set up against us. You have to you can't ask for permission. This is actually, I'll just jump in and say in this video we created as almost like a launch video.

00:30:47:23 - 00:31:08:12
Jessica Tillyer
So this was after we did the donut ride. We created this video just to show, you know, to show people. And I think this is what so important about like what Sam does, like the videos help show people what it is, because trying to tell people about a bike path doesn't really work. And this got so many people.

00:31:08:12 - 00:31:38:28
Jessica Tillyer
I mean, we got, you know, hundreds of shares of this video and people saying, like to their communities, let's do this. We've worked really, really hard with our with the principals and the PTA to build trust. We didn't start by asking permission from them to do this, because I think the natural answer would just be no, you know, or what's what's the liability, which I think it's so interesting that the question of liability comes up all the time with bypass.

00:31:38:28 - 00:32:09:27
Jessica Tillyer
And, you know, if I pick up my friend's kid in my car, I'm not asking them to sign a waiver that says I'm allowed to drive them, you know? So, yeah, why should it be any different on a bike? But we've had huge success with principals and with the PTA and understanding why this matters. And I think, you know, understanding, seeing what kids are like when they walk into school after bypass, seeing how calm and alert and happy and joyful they are.

00:32:10:14 - 00:32:32:12
Jessica Tillyer
And there's also studies that show that, you know, kids get activity before they head into school, walking, biking, whatever. They actually end up performing better throughout the school day. So people that understand that educators understand that are our natural advocates and allies and, and just really get the power by bus.

00:32:32:14 - 00:32:54:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, I want to pull up this particular visual here. I mean, I think this visual, from what I've been able to tell from the photos and some some of the videos and folks in the listening only audience, you might want to pop in and just kind of scroll through, this, this video, just to be able to get an idea as to what this environment's like.

00:32:54:09 - 00:33:26:03
John Simmerman
But I wanted to point out that based on what you said earlier is that, you know, the township, you know, was established back in the 1800s. It was established before the advent of the automobile. The scale is such that, really the environment was transformed to accommodate cars. And and now, you know, we have a situation where y'all are taken over the streets and taking them, bringing them back, you know, taking, taking control of them once again.

00:33:26:18 - 00:33:46:10
John Simmerman
You know, my mug is, you know, streets are for people. And I point out that, yeah, I mean, streets have been around for thousands of years. The automobile just started to be the interloper about 120 years ago. And so the point I want to make is that everything that we have seen here is not about bicycling infrastructure.

00:33:46:13 - 00:34:10:09
John Simmerman
You're essentially rolling down the streets and you're you're taking over these quiet residential streets. I'm sure when you think of your route, of how you're going to be doing it, you're working on a route that delivers the kids, to the school safely, as safe as possible, and then crossing any major streets and roads that need to be dealt with if, if necessary.

00:34:10:12 - 00:34:36:13
John Simmerman
But I think the reason I like to emphasize this is that often times when we look at our quote unquote bike map of a city and we're like, well, yeah, I can't get there from here. I can't get to where I need to get to. And it's unfortunate that many of the quiet residential streets that may have low volumes and low speeds, for the most part, are left untapped.

00:34:36:16 - 00:35:08:22
John Simmerman
And I emphasize this because, you know, when we look to the Dutch and their, you know, amazing rates of, of cycling and the, the Dutch have been very, very interesting, you know, responding on my channel to bypass because they're like, what? This is what happens every day to school. But what? And it's not a fair comparison. But what is a fair comparison is that 60, 70% of their entire cycling network is shared space or shared streets, just like we see here.

00:35:08:24 - 00:35:19:07
John Simmerman
And again, the key is what they do really, really well is traffic calming, is they make sure that those shared streets are truly low volume and low speed.

00:35:19:09 - 00:35:23:00
Jessica Tillyer
Yes, I completely agree with you. Talk a little bit about.

00:35:23:00 - 00:35:51:05
John Simmerman
That, because I think a lot of communities in individuals who might be tuning in to this might be wondering, we don't have bicycle infrastructure. We don't have, you know, the ability to do this. Can you address that? Because I think it gets to the story that you were talking about with your first example of a success story of, of of her being able to understand, oh, wow, I can do this talk a little bit about the fact that you are sharing space.

00:35:51:05 - 00:35:57:00
John Simmerman
You're sharing these quiet residential, low volume, low, low speed streets.

00:35:57:02 - 00:36:19:26
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. So I think something that I, I share a lot because people reach out all the time wondering how they can start a bike. Busses. Oh, you must have infrastructure in your town that we just don't have in our town. And the fact of the matter is, no, we don't. I think Bike Bus is a tool to reimagine the status quo of American towns.

00:36:20:03 - 00:36:53:09
Jessica Tillyer
Right. And when you are reimagining the status quo of something, you can't start with the barriers. You have to start with the dream. Right? And that is really what we're trying to do is starting with the dream. So I guess from like sort of like logical place. What we did is we, we, we biked on all the streets and really examined what streets had the like the lowest volume and were the best set up to do bike bus.

00:36:53:09 - 00:37:18:07
Jessica Tillyer
There is some extremely busy, scary streets that we cross. We we go. Looking at this map, you see that it's the sort of long rectangle we go from the top of the rectangle, basically down to the bottom of the rectangle we have, and from the bottom of the rectangle to the top, we have routes that are going in all directions.

00:37:18:09 - 00:37:52:22
Jessica Tillyer
So we really needed to do a lot a lot of prototyping before before we actually created, the routes. Something else I'll say is because Montclair was designed before the advent of the automobile, there are these the code, like, alleys in our town. So there's like these little pedestrian walking paths that connect different streets that might be almost like boulevard style streets.

00:37:52:24 - 00:38:31:25
Jessica Tillyer
Right. And those are absolutely amazing. So there's a way to get through town. And lots of those, alleyways that it's it's not really what you would consider an alleyway. It's quite beautiful, actually. And we, we utilize some of those on the bike paths too. So something that I've loved hearing, from kids on the bike busses, they're actually getting to know the town so much better because they're not taking this direct route from point A to point B, they're taking the safest route from point A to point B, and that means going through these beautiful parks we have and going through the alleyways.

00:38:32:06 - 00:38:42:20
Jessica Tillyer
And, and really, I think feeling liberated to understand their town in a way that they didn't in the backseat of their car, just looking out the window.

00:38:42:22 - 00:39:12:06
John Simmerman
That's a really, really good point. And in fact, studies do show that for children who, arrive to school in the back of their car versus arriving to school either walking or biking, with or without a parent or an adult, those kids actually know their city much better. They have a mental map. They can actually recreate and draw what their city is and what their route to school is like, and they can be really creative.

00:39:12:06 - 00:39:39:07
John Simmerman
And so there's a lot of really good research and a lot of good studies out there. That, you know, look at that, that impact of being able to get kids out there. What's interesting too, when we zoom in on this map, I have the Google Bicycle map overlay, you know, put in here. And so the only thing that's showing up as, as bicycle infrastructure is really the, the pathways in the parks and a couple of other little trails over in here.

00:39:39:21 - 00:40:11:29
John Simmerman
And then the dotted line is, is Google's attempt to say, well, that's a relatively quiet street. That would be a preferred bicycle route kind of thing. And to my point into what your point is, is that for the most part, many if not most of of these quiet residential streets should probably all have dotted green lines on them because they're inherently, for the most part, going to be a comfortable shared space environment.

00:40:12:13 - 00:40:33:11
John Simmerman
So long as again, volumes are down and speeds are down. And to your point from earlier is the more people that we have out there riding on a regular basis, it becomes safer for everyone. And and you pointed it out, you said it. You said it becomes safer for everyone, including people driving.

00:40:33:13 - 00:41:01:00
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I mean, some of those streets, there's actually some streets that I do not feel comfortable biking on until bike bus. So we have the street, Park Street. That's actually one of the ones that you just zoomed in on. And it's, it's it seems like it might be quiet, but because, because it's such a smooth, long street, people go pretty fast on it.

00:41:01:03 - 00:41:26:26
Jessica Tillyer
But what has happened is with bike bus, it's actually changed driver behavior in Montclair. And and we're seeing that, we're seeing that anecdotally, and, and the other thing that we were actually able to do, again, to the point that you made earlier of when you have an active town, you, you develop active citizens is are bike.

00:41:26:26 - 00:41:50:00
Jessica Tillyer
Bus folks have started showing up to town council meetings, and we did this huge push to lower speed limits in our town. We had most of the town wide speed limits for 35mph, which, you know, if, if even a small car is going that speed, you're more likely to die at that speed than 25.

00:41:50:01 - 00:41:59:27
John Simmerman
Just insane. When you talk about a city that was developed prior to the automobile, 35mph is just ridiculous. Yeah.

00:42:00:00 - 00:42:36:25
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. And, I spoke earlier, so we were actually able to lower that to 25mph and then to create, a pretty decent sized school zone, where the speed limit is 20mph. But that took the push of parents going to town council meetings week after week. So pretty much everybody that you see in this picture, we had that number of people going to town council meetings saying, this speed is too fast, and for my safety and for my children's safety, you have to change it.

00:42:36:27 - 00:43:01:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. No, you just mentioned something I want to follow up on. You mentioned school zones and really looking at bringing those speeds down to 20mph, because 20 really is plenty. There's no reason why anybody should be driving more than 20. And really, it's good that you guys got the default down to 25. That extra five miles per hours slower is really essential and really, really critical.

00:43:01:03 - 00:43:29:07
John Simmerman
So I'm glad the school zones have been able to get down to 20. I'm sure you know about the school, the school streets movement. That's also happening. Both the bike bus and the school streets movement sort of popped up, in the aftermath of the pandemic, which is another thing, another reset. You know, even on my, you know, shared streets here, I don't have sidewalks in my neighborhood either here in Austin, Texas.

00:43:29:10 - 00:43:57:11
John Simmerman
And so what we saw was just people taking over the street just to get some walking in, you know, during the lockdown and the number of cars decreased, the in the amount of speed, you know, decreased. And we never gave the streets back. You know, I walk around with my streets or for people t shirt in the middle of the street and wave to my neighbors and say hi in this, that reinforcement to driver behavior, I mean, you mentioned it earlier is because you're consistently out there.

00:43:57:13 - 00:44:36:21
John Simmerman
Y'all are out there. You know, there's people, you know, taking control, taking the streets back for you. You're able to do that. Talk a little bit about that potential, though, of maybe catching fire with that other movement that's happening, which the school streets, which is taking some transformations to make those streets around schools safe zones. I had an opportunity to visit some of them in Paris this summer and videoed, you know, permanent infrastructure that, you know, basically expanded the the school property and park property and making it a no car zone.

00:44:36:24 - 00:45:19:05
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. I'm such a proponent of school streets. Just from even, admissions point of view, you know, there's incredible studies that show the amount of emissions that are outside of schools as, like a child being exposed to, like, you know, 20 people smoking a cigaret right in their face. It's it's just it's just horrible. And then from like a safety perspective, too, I think it's so important, something that I think is really special about school streets or about some of what you see, happening in, in Barcelona is there is this art and activity.

00:45:19:05 - 00:45:59:25
Jessica Tillyer
It lends to it. And I think to me, those are two things that are so healing and are so missing from the fabric of most American cities and towns. You know, when I was, I was like, show the example of Disneyland. Americans love Disneyland. Why? Because they get to walk everywhere. You know, like, why is it that a family that lives in the suburbs and also drives all of a sudden goes to Disneyland and is so happy to walk everywhere, it's because it's great infrastructure in Disneyland and it's artistic and it's like magical.

00:45:59:28 - 00:46:01:15
Jessica Tillyer
And I think that that's the same.

00:46:01:15 - 00:46:03:13
John Simmerman
Thing we see what's the same thing we see when.

00:46:03:13 - 00:46:31:10
Jessica Tillyer
People go to Europe, oh, 100% or two. Yeah. I mean, like Tokyo or Seoul or. Yeah, basically any city or town that is outside of North America. You get, you know, where my mom, my mom lives, actually, in a small town in Mexico. And there's the plaza, and everybody just walks to the plaza and all the kids are playing at night, and parents don't know where their kids are.

00:46:31:13 - 00:47:14:21
Jessica Tillyer
And it's okay because their kids are just playing soccer, you know? But there is just a sense of arts community activity all coming together. And that's, that's actually it's it's not rocket science. It's actually just deeply human, you know? And that's what makes us human is we want those things together. So to me, when I look at school streets and when I look at sort of like those movements towards like active blocks or just thinking differently about neighborhoods, what actually gets me super excited, living in, you know, always kind of being a city dweller and now living in what's considered to be, you know, a town what's what's kind of negatively considered to be

00:47:14:21 - 00:47:42:22
Jessica Tillyer
suburbia, where everything's stagnant is like, what an opportunity to reimagine what suburbia can be, right? Like adding school streets, getting streets that are maybe close to traffic, maybe all the time, or maybe at least some days a week, rethinking parking mandates, like all of these things together, getting more arts. Something that I absolutely love is an Amsterdam.

00:47:42:25 - 00:48:05:26
Jessica Tillyer
How there's those beautiful blocks that are basically all these, large flower planters, right? It wasn't like the town came a lot. It wasn't like the mayor came along and said, hey, let's have all these flower planters on the street. It was literally mothers moving the flower planters out of their homes to the street so that cars couldn't drive down and their children can safely play.

00:48:05:29 - 00:48:38:13
Jessica Tillyer
And that's where I'm like, that is that's so beautiful because it is about it's it's this sort of like, you know, mother led movement, which, you know, mothers need to be more involved in these sort of active decisions. It is artistic and beautiful. It makes the town more beautiful. And it's it's it it creates safety. So that's why I like there's these things can really come together and why I feel so strongly about.

00:48:38:13 - 00:48:41:26
Jessica Tillyer
Just do it. Just go for it. Don't ask for permission.

00:48:41:29 - 00:48:54:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. So we've got your your website back up and we have the list of the schools, on here. Are all of these elementary schools or is there a mix of elementary and middle schools?

00:48:54:14 - 00:49:17:19
Jessica Tillyer
Yeah. So we started with just elementary schools, and then our elementary school kids started graduating and going to middle school. So this fall was our first year having middle schools. And it's, I, I thought it's definitely a different beast, you know, because for good reason. When the kids are in middle school, they're like, I've got this back off.

00:49:17:19 - 00:49:40:29
Jessica Tillyer
I don't need I don't need this adult leader, you know, all the adults be the caboose. And, and we've really figured out how to make that happen. And the other thing that's really interesting about middle school is it's been very student led. So it's basically the kids saying like, hey, is there going to be a bike bus at my middle school?

00:49:41:02 - 00:49:45:12
Jessica Tillyer
And we said, okay, of course, let's make it happen.

00:49:45:14 - 00:49:46:01
John Simmerman
Right.

00:49:46:04 - 00:50:10:29
Jessica Tillyer
So, so yeah, so that's exciting. And then the other thing that I feel really excited about is just seeing this generation kind of go on to high school, too. So I think e-bikes are I mean, e-bikes are incredible for for anybody. You know, for somebody that just had a knee surgery, they can get on their e-bike a lot sooner than they can get on a regular road bike.

00:50:11:03 - 00:50:43:18
Jessica Tillyer
And then for for middle school or high school kids, that sort of freedom that we associate with a car. You absolutely have that with an e-bike. So I'm really, really hoping that, you know, a kindergartner today that's riding in our bike bus, you know, ten years from now or 12 years from now, they're on an e-bike with a pack of kids going to go see a movie or, you know, whatever they're going to go to, and doing that, e-bike versus a car.

00:50:43:20 - 00:51:04:23
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. So going back to the school streets and that potential, that opportunity that exists there, do you do you get the sense that maybe 1 or 2 or many of these schools could be potential, candidates for a school street, sort of implementation?

00:51:04:26 - 00:51:34:24
Jessica Tillyer
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, there's one school here watching that actually already has, a school street implementation. It's it's, not, it's it's not, it's just during school hours. And then we've actually been working with principals and the PTA, other schools to look at, increasing that school zone. Right. So that we, you know, parents are parking farther away if they have to drop their kids off.

00:51:35:10 - 00:51:43:15
Jessica Tillyer
And also prioritizing kids either on bikes or walking or in the bus, being able to get to school.

00:51:43:17 - 00:52:07:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. Because my assumption that you have, based on how you, you sort of set up the different schools here, is that there's a fair amount of, what we would call school choice is that correct, where parents don't necessarily have to have their kids go to the the elementary school or the middle school that's closest to them? It sounds like there's a little bit of a flexibility.

00:52:07:09 - 00:52:17:08
John Simmerman
And with that flexibility comes the likelihood of more parents feeling compelled to have to drive their kids to school. Am I catching that? Is that kind of the right setup?

00:52:17:14 - 00:52:45:05
Jessica Tillyer
Yes. So we have a bussing system, here in Montclair, that serves, oh, 90% of the population. So if you live within a mile radius of school, then here you you have to walk or bike or, I guess, drive. But anybody that lives further away than a mile from their school, they can get bused, which is great, which is great.

00:52:45:12 - 00:53:17:14
Jessica Tillyer
I've definitely seen I've seen the videos of the Carlisle kids in most of America, and it's pretty insane. We spend we spend close to like between 6 and $8 million on our bus bussing system. So it's yeah, it's pretty expensive, but but in terms of, equity and integration, I think pretty much all people in Montclair feel like, you know, of course we want to spend that money on public transportation.

00:53:17:16 - 00:53:59:20
Jessica Tillyer
That said, you know, there's some kids and I share this on bike bus that they don't love taking the bus. You know, it, there's like some bullying that happens on the bus or they have a fear of taking the bus. And I actually think that bike bus provides this really nice sort of intermediate solution between getting driven and taking the bus that kids love, because all, all of the sort of dynamics that exist on the bus that sometimes don't feel great, they don't exist on bike bus because you can't really focus on you can't really focus on anything except bike riding.

00:54:00:10 - 00:54:35:24
Jessica Tillyer
And having a good time. Like, you know, this is such a typical Dan bike bus. It's it feels more like a party than, that I commute. And that that is actually another part, bike bus that I think is really inspiring and I, I hope it, I hope it inspires people as they think about being active citizens and their towns in more ways, because it is, again, reimagining the status quo of what is routine or what is mundane.

00:54:35:26 - 00:54:54:16
Jessica Tillyer
So rather than just being like, I hate driving my kid to school, it's the worst part of my day. It sucks. It becomes like, wow, biking my kid to school is the most magical part of my day. It's the thing that I look forward to the most.

00:54:54:18 - 00:54:57:08
John Simmerman
Well, and the kids look forward to it too.

00:54:57:10 - 00:55:19:16
Jessica Tillyer
Oh yeah. The kids. Yes. Like we share that we have a WhatsApp group for each school and we share that a lot of like, I don't really want to do bike facility, but my kids do. So we'll see you out there. And yeah, the kids absolutely love it and are willing to do anything to to ride with us.

00:55:19:18 - 00:55:47:27
John Simmerman
So one of the things that I talk about a lot with the Active Towns channel is this concept of community transformations. And so yes, we're looking at trying to transform the built environment. We want to create a situation where we feel like it's safe and inviting to get out there and do things, with the caveat that we know that, you know, we can't just magically, you know, you know, wave a wand and, you know, turn, you know, turn this into quote unquote, the Netherlands.

00:55:48:02 - 00:56:22:12
John Simmerman
And then, as we mentioned earlier, is that. Yeah, but the vast majority of the cycle network in the Netherlands is also shared space. So we have to be a little bit realistic on this. But one of the things that I love to talk about and really emphasize is that we're talking about creating a culture of activity, making it normal, once again, for people to walk and bike to meaningful destinations to close us out, talk a little bit about how Bike Bus is sort of, changing that, that narrative and change and, and influencing that culture of activity.

00:56:22:15 - 00:56:41:14
John Simmerman
I think you alluded to it a little bit with the middle schoolers of saying that they're just like, we're doing this. Are you starting to see more of those bike racks being full at the schools on non bike bus days? Because that's when you really start to realize that, oh yeah. No, we got this just like we are parent with it.

00:56:41:14 - 00:56:57:03
John Simmerman
You saw who was riding by herself even though she, you know three weeks earlier was like no I can't do this. Are you starting to see that transformation and starting to see more people riding and walking more often to meaningful destinations?

00:56:57:05 - 00:57:24:27
Jessica Tillyer
Yes. So we over the last so we've, been doing by bus for two years and we have seen a dramatic cultural change in this town. So a few different indicators of that. One is I do see, at schools, the bike racks being full, which is great. On just an average Wednesday, there's, there's more bikes.

00:57:24:27 - 00:57:51:08
Jessica Tillyer
Definitely. It's not like a bike bus day but there but I see more actually in high school I've been seeing more bikes on the bike racks, and I can't help but think that there is some sort of butterfly effect that is happening where, you know, there is just this like cultural change or even maybe, maybe it's parents feeling like, oh, it's okay to let my high school kid ride their bikes, but who's been asking me for a while?

00:57:51:10 - 00:58:11:02
Jessica Tillyer
And then we have, as I mentioned earlier, we have a train system and, a lot of adults take the train to go to work and in the city and in New York City, and we all, all of us bike plus leaders keep on saying like, doesn't it look like the bike racks are more full of the trains?

00:58:11:02 - 00:58:47:16
Jessica Tillyer
And they definitely are another thing that has happened is, you know, we really want a bike sharing program here. And, somebody just created this. They call it the Guerrilla Bike share. And they started leaving bikes all around town with this QR code. And, you know, you can check out the bike. So we've seen all of those, like on an average Saturday, if I'm driving or walking or biking, you know, I see I see more parents with their kids going to the grocery store and, and, and just examples like that.

00:58:47:16 - 00:59:10:04
Jessica Tillyer
So we see it a lot more on my street. I just live on this small street and there's, there's two families that now I just see all the time bikes going up and down my street. And I feel kind of selfish because I'm like, that's all I want, you know? That's all I want is just to see people biking around.

00:59:10:04 - 00:59:15:18
Jessica Tillyer
That makes me feel good. But I know it's not selfish because it's good for everybody.

00:59:15:20 - 00:59:34:28
John Simmerman
Well, you should feel proud about that. And and I do like to, to point out that humans are a hurting species and they, they very much, you know, see, oh my gosh. You know, it's look at this image, I mean, this image that we have on screen here for folks listening to this is a classic shot of the bike bus.

00:59:34:28 - 00:59:57:04
John Simmerman
And it's it's fun. And when people see other people out doing stuff and they're having fun and it's and it's, you know, vibrant and it's, it's something this like, oh, I want to do that too. And you mentioned it earlier is that, you know, the kids bring the parents along. Don't put pressure on the parents to say, no, I want to do that.

00:59:57:10 - 01:00:20:27
John Simmerman
I want my own bike bus here, you know. And so they put that pressure on, to close us out. What one bit of advice would you have for a community around the globe? They're going to be tuned. Folks are tuning in from around the globe if they want to get a bike bus started. What's the first step in getting a bike bus started in your estimation?

01:00:21:00 - 01:00:49:29
Jessica Tillyer
I honestly think the first step is slightly different for every community. So there's three. There's three ideas that I'd like to put out there. One is find your community. So find the other people that care about this that are going to be the early adopters. Link up with them. The second thing is, bring the joy. So you know, the music, the t shirts, the, the like, optimism, the fun, all of that really matters.

01:00:49:29 - 01:01:12:23
Jessica Tillyer
And to your point, it gets people to join and to want to be a part of this. And then the third thing I always say is just do it. Like, do not wait for permission. Do not ask. Like, just do it and do it every Friday or do it every Wednesday. Whatever it is that works, just keep on doing it.

01:01:12:26 - 01:01:16:28
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. Jessica, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much.

01:01:17:04 - 01:01:19:25
Jessica Tillyer
Well, thank you so much for having me.

01:01:19:27 - 01:01:35:08
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Jessica. And if you did, please hit give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below, and be sure to remember to ring that notification bell.

01:01:35:15 - 01:01:52:10
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. It's super easy to do. Just navigate over to Active towns.org and click on the support tab at the top of the page. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. It really means so much to me.

01:01:52:10 - 01:02:14:02
John Simmerman
And until next time this John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit. Every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.