Ep 160 w/ Ethan Tufts audio transcript from the video version (Note: Not proofed)
00:00:05:14 - 00:00:16:06
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. I'm John Simmerman, and I am absolutely delighted to have Ethan Tufts from Hello Road with me here in the podcast today. Hey, Ethan, how's it going?

00:00:16:14 - 00:00:19:23
Ethan Tufts
Pretty good. How are you doing? Thanks so much for having me. I'm looking forward to chatting today.

00:00:20:12 - 00:00:27:29
John Simmerman
Yes. And thank you for doing this. And we're obviously in our little virtual. You can live studio here.

00:00:28:07 - 00:00:29:29
Ethan Tufts
Yeah.

00:00:29:29 - 00:00:35:29
John Simmerman
And thank goodness for for a technology like this that makes being able to connect in this manner and.

00:00:36:08 - 00:00:36:14
Ethan Tufts
It's.

00:00:36:14 - 00:00:43:05
John Simmerman
Awesome. Yeah, it's good stuff. So, Ethan, why don't we do this, go through and just take a moment to introduce yourself to the audience?

00:00:43:17 - 00:01:04:21
Ethan Tufts
Sure. All right. So my name's Ethan Tufts. I am a car enthusiast. I've been a car thieves for a very long time. I guess you could say I'm a semiprofessional automotive journalist. Depending on who you talk to, who you ask. I run a somewhat successful automotive YouTube channel. I do classic car videos, I do new car reviews due to some travel stories.

00:01:05:05 - 00:01:32:07
Ethan Tufts
And like many people in the United States, at an early age, I was indoctrinated into a very car centric, car dependent lifestyle and never really considered not owning a car. In my life, I've owned 50 cars. I know that's a little ridiculous. I currently own ten. Also ridiculous down from 13. A few months ago. But you know, I guess to justify that I bought many of them for my channel.

00:01:32:07 - 00:01:52:06
Ethan Tufts
So I can I can sort of justify my car hoarding in a way. I spent a lot of time having fun with the car. So all my life I used to race Mijares And then I moved on to racing terrible car. So I was part of this racing series called The 24 Hours of LeMans, and we raised $500 cars.

00:01:52:06 - 00:02:16:17
Ethan Tufts
I had the Liam Neeson, which it's a play on words. Liam Neeson Ha ha. But anyway, you know, I spent a lot of time with cars trying to have fun with cars, organized canyon road drives out middle of nowhere with friends. And I think somewhere in the back of my head, I've always sort of realized that cars were more the most fun, the best when there were a few other cars around, when there were a few other pedestrians around it.

00:02:16:17 - 00:02:39:22
Ethan Tufts
But I never really put much thought into it, and I never really put much thought into car dependency until recently, you know, thinking about, oh, maybe there's another way. But, you know, as you maybe seen in my video, that's probably the reason why we're talking right now, because you saw that video that I'm sick of car. I forget exactly what it was titled that essentially it said cars suck.

00:02:39:25 - 00:02:59:11
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. I think it drew the attention of many people who don't like cars. But yeah, there was a variety of factors that kind of made me realize that cars can be quite terrible, especially in cities and suburbs. They actually ruined, I think, cars ruined cities. And that might be weird to hear a car enthusiast say.

00:02:59:27 - 00:03:05:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I do have a visual for, ah, Liam Neeson. Neeson Here we.

00:03:05:10 - 00:03:05:16
John Simmerman
Go.

00:03:05:18 - 00:03:09:11
Ethan Tufts
Yes, there it is. Yeah. While this.

00:03:09:12 - 00:03:11:28
Ethan Tufts
While this may look like a professional rap.

00:03:11:28 - 00:03:16:09
Ethan Tufts
It's actually just a bunch of laser printed images taped to the car.

00:03:17:01 - 00:03:18:22
John Simmerman
I love it. So that's great.

00:03:18:27 - 00:03:25:07
Ethan Tufts
It's a fun series to run because everybody seems their car. It's like Halloween. It's like Burning Man meets car racing, right?

00:03:25:07 - 00:03:25:24
John Simmerman
Right. Yeah.

00:03:26:17 - 00:03:29:28
John Simmerman
That's pretty funny. So where are you based out of?

00:03:29:28 - 00:03:51:25
Ethan Tufts
I live in Los Angeles. I've lived here for 25 years. So I live actually in the kind of northwestern corner, Northridge, which is one of the more car dependent areas of Los Angeles. There are a few areas that are a lot of people don't know this, but there are some walkable areas of Los Angeles. Yes, I happen to not live in one of those areas.

00:03:51:25 - 00:04:14:08
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. And I think, you know, living here for 25 years, you just enjoy having to drive everywhere. Generally you just kind of get used to it. And I think as somebody that has been into cars, I never really thought, you know, there could be another way. You know, you kind of look into public transit. I did that, looked into cycling, you know, 15, 20 years ago when I was trying to get to work.

00:04:14:20 - 00:04:22:27
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, you realize that, well, it's going to take three times as long to get where I need to go via bus right. So I guess I'll just keep driving.

00:04:22:28 - 00:04:23:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:24:20 - 00:04:37:01
John Simmerman
So, yeah. So you and I have tread on some of the same ground. I'm a originally a Southern Californian. In fact, I'm a fourth generation Los Angeles, huh? Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So.

00:04:37:01 - 00:04:38:04
Ethan Tufts
So you know this very well.

00:04:38:04 - 00:05:04:17
John Simmerman
I know this very well. And I also have, you know, a family legacy of Los Angeles before cars. Oh, okay. So the family arrived in the late 1800s and so and in fact, my great great and my great great great grandparents are buried in the Rosedale Cemetery, right. Sandwiched between Western and Venice and Normandy, right in the in the Central Los Angeles area.

00:05:04:27 - 00:05:20:24
John Simmerman
And then we also have USC in common, too. So I did my undergraduate at USC and I was there in the in the eighties. So just after just after the Olympics. So I came in and the Olympic rings were still on the buildings there in the mid eighties.

00:05:20:24 - 00:05:26:02
Ethan Tufts
So yeah you still see some Olympic rings on some of the benches at Exposition Park around there for sure.

00:05:26:10 - 00:05:27:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:27:16 - 00:05:29:26
John Simmerman
And, and yeah. The Olympics are coming back.

00:05:29:26 - 00:05:30:24
Ethan Tufts
Yes. There you go.

00:05:31:06 - 00:05:32:01
John Simmerman
So a lot.

00:05:32:01 - 00:05:37:17
Ethan Tufts
Of people in L.A. I'm not sure about that if that's a good thing or not, but. Well, yeah. Okay. Discussion for another day. Yeah.

00:05:37:17 - 00:06:12:06
John Simmerman
And it's it's interesting. L.A. has a very, very interesting history in the sense that it is very card dominated now and in it very, you know, card dependent in many ways. But the true legacy, the true history of of Los Angeles is one of a tremendous network of rail transit, of of streetcar lines. In fact, it had the most extensive streetcar line in the nation, went at its peak, and in fact, my great great grandfather worked on the red line.

00:06:12:19 - 00:06:23:18
John Simmerman
And so that was like, you know, just one of the things that, you know, that was a job, you know, he was you know, of course, he was involved in the the coupling and decoupling of of the rail cars.

00:06:23:19 - 00:06:24:29
Ethan Tufts
So that could be dangerous.

00:06:24:29 - 00:06:26:05
John Simmerman
And it was he got injured.

00:06:26:23 - 00:06:28:09
John Simmerman
Yes. Oh, yes.

00:06:28:09 - 00:07:01:23
John Simmerman
As a matter of fact. But yeah. So that but but the reality is, is, you know, especially post-World War two things really started to you know, go crazy on car dependency just nationwide and in the greater Los Angeles area, for sure. Our family, which originally started right in the Highland Park area, originally downtown, downtown, and then right around the turn of the century up in the Highland Park area, and then eventually moving out the 210 corridor to Glendora in that area.

00:07:02:08 - 00:07:18:14
John Simmerman
As the decades went on, the dependency in the car orientation became more of a thing, and now we are left with something that is quite a mess. However, I will say that we're getting transit in L.A. and it's coming along. It's getting there.

00:07:18:28 - 00:07:36:24
Ethan Tufts
It's true. It is coming along. It's a lot better than when I first moved here. I've you know, I've been here 25 years. It's a lot better. They were just working on the red line when I moved here. They were still there was still construction in Hollywood on that. And yeah, it's getting better. And it's there's there's certain pockets that are actually quite, quite decent.

00:07:36:24 - 00:07:46:20
Ethan Tufts
They've got some, I'll put it in quotes, air quotes, protected bike lanes because they're protected by K 71 plastic bollards and not actual, real, you know, actual protection.

00:07:46:20 - 00:07:48:11
Ethan Tufts
Right. But yeah, there's there is.

00:07:48:25 - 00:08:08:10
Ethan Tufts
There is some some things happening. There is also a lot of frustration, too, because, you know, they have this mobility plan that they talked about in 2015 and they have implemented 2% of it right throughout the whole city. And, you know, this is a mobility plan, but they're trying to vision zero mobility plan by 2035. We want zero fatalities.

00:08:08:10 - 00:08:32:02
Ethan Tufts
And since then, fatalities have gone up. Yeah, they're not following the plan. They just the city council just recently voted the streets for all as an organization that that is right know that that's around in L.A. trying to help the situation I just recently started volunteering with them and you know they have this plan. They were trying to get it, really trying to get the city council to just follow this and agree to vote, to follow this plan.

00:08:32:02 - 00:08:53:22
Ethan Tufts
And every single city council member voted no. We want to put it on the ballot in 2024. So we're just we just keep pushing this problem further and further down the road. And, you know, since and since that vote 90 days ago, literally nothing has happened. So there's a lot of people that are that are working to try to make the streets safer, especially for cyclists and pedestrians in Los Angeles.

00:08:53:22 - 00:09:00:04
Ethan Tufts
But it's frustrating knowing that it's just it just keeps getting pushed further and further down the road.

00:09:00:09 - 00:09:00:18
John Simmerman
You know.

00:09:01:20 - 00:09:32:13
John Simmerman
It's interesting to to you know, when I don't know enough these days about the politics there in Los Angeles, but pushing it to the 2024 election is certainly going to mean that there's going to be more people showing up at the polls for sure. Sure. So maybe it will be a more representative vote if that ballot is actually on a on a ballot where certainly a very, very high percentage more people will be showing up at the polls.

00:09:32:13 - 00:09:32:29
John Simmerman
So I don't.

00:09:33:00 - 00:09:48:10
Ethan Tufts
Yes. I mean, I guess the good good news is that it will hopefully bring more awareness to it. Yeah, it's just I think the frustrating thing is that this is a plan that the city has already agreed to do. They're just not doing it. So we have to vote on it again, I guess.

00:09:48:19 - 00:10:19:07
John Simmerman
Again. Again, yeah. All right. So let's let's let's take a look here. This is your landing page. Let me zoom out here a little bit on this iPad so we can see so this is this is actually your channel. So this is the yellow road, Ethan Tufts YouTube channel. And yeah, shoots here. You're right there at a just a hair under 34,000 subscribers and yeah we we can just we get a little bit of a glimpse of the video in question.

00:10:20:05 - 00:10:26:05
Ethan Tufts
Sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that one right there, that's the one that drew the attention of a lot of people.

00:10:26:10 - 00:10:38:24
John Simmerman
So let's let's do this. We're going to we'll keep this up and we'll rewind it just a little bit. We'll turn the sound back on. And we'll let's let's go ahead and listen to the first, you know, 2 minutes of this.

00:10:39:04 - 00:10:51:27
Ethan Tufts
Hey there. We need to have a chat about the future of this channel, a channel about cars and the fact that I'm starting to hate cars today. Let's talk about it.

00:10:51:27 - 00:10:53:04
John Simmerman
Solid opening there.

00:10:53:25 - 00:10:54:13
John Simmerman
Thank you.

00:10:55:27 - 00:10:56:17
Ethan Tufts
So much. You have to.

00:10:56:17 - 00:11:15:00
Ethan Tufts
Show my favorite Canyon Road. And I thought this would be a good place to talk about what's going on with me, what's going on with this channel? Mainly because it's away from the city, it's away from the suburbs, both places where I really hate driving. And roads like this are usually fun, mainly because there's no one else around.

00:11:17:00 - 00:11:35:10
Ethan Tufts
Okay, so before we get into why I'm starting to hate cars, let's take a quick look back in time. When I was a kid, I spent most of my time surrounded by Matchbox cars. I could also be found with my head buried in the sketches of drawing cars. I had my own line of cars. I had my own brands.

00:11:35:14 - 00:11:55:12
Ethan Tufts
It was pretty silly. I've owned almost 50 cars in my life every store cars, I've ruined cars, I've race cars. I've done fun things in cars, I've done dumb things in cars. So yeah, that's been a big part of my life and that's one of the reasons why I started this channel. And I've been making videos on this channel for five years, which is nuts.

00:11:55:16 - 00:12:19:03
Ethan Tufts
It's truly been a life changing experience with the people that I've met, the places that I've traveled to, and all the unique cars I've gotten to drive. But even with all those positives, I don't really think it's working. It's not really working. For me personally or creatively. It's not really working for my mental health, and it's certainly.

00:12:19:03 - 00:12:20:25
Ethan Tufts
Not working for the greater good.

00:12:21:13 - 00:12:41:28
Ethan Tufts
So that's where we come to the part where I said that I'm starting to hate cars, I'm a car enthusiast that's falling out of love with the automobile or at least certain aspects of cars. And this changing perspective has made me less excited to create certain types of videos. It's even made me just consider quitting and shutting down the whole channel.

00:12:42:14 - 00:12:47:15
Ethan Tufts
Yep. So let's dig into it.

00:12:47:15 - 00:12:49:06
John Simmerman
So yes.

00:12:49:06 - 00:13:10:19
John Simmerman
I love it. And everybody, obviously the link will be provided in the video's description below. You need to go watch the entire video. Let's reflect a little bit on that, that opening and then we'll we'll fast forward to the end and get a little bit of of, you know, sort of that parting thought. But bring us up to speed.

00:13:11:15 - 00:13:33:02
John Simmerman
You were pretty far along by the time you decided to press record and record this video. So, too, reflections is, you know what, bring us up to speed from, you know, the early stages of of like having that awareness. Yes. Of starting to become disillusioned with things. And maybe it was because you had 13 plus cars in your yard.

00:13:33:02 - 00:13:36:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, that might be part of it. But, you know, bring us up to.

00:13:36:27 - 00:13:43:12
John Simmerman
Speed of of, you know, what was the straw that broke the camel's back that, you know, made you press record on this one?

00:13:43:28 - 00:14:07:09
Ethan Tufts
Sure. I mean, I've always known that there are environmental problems with cars. That's always been something that I've I've struggled with but never really thought seriously about car dependency until a few months ago. And I think there's a whole bunch of things that all kind of came together at once, which I think, you know, we could we could talk about each thing, you know, but it wasn't any one thing.

00:14:07:09 - 00:14:32:17
Ethan Tufts
It was a whole bunch of things that sort of came to came together. And like you said, yeah, maybe having 13 cars and the expense of having 13 cars is not a great idea. In defense of that, they were mainly for the channel. But yeah, car hoarding. Not good. I think the first thing that really started to send me down this path of thinking about car dependency and the ways that cars can be awful is based on me having access to a lot of new cars.

00:14:32:17 - 00:14:55:07
Ethan Tufts
I review a lot of new cars and I started to notice huge blind spots, both figuratively, figuratively and literally in car design. So basically you've got automakers that are killing off cars, small cars in favor of larger vehicles. And cars have grown substantially in the last 20, 30 years. If you've seen any of my other videos, you'll know that I'm a big fan of.

00:14:55:07 - 00:15:12:17
Ethan Tufts
The cars from the 1980s. In the 1990 is just the era that I grew up in. I'd have a lot of the saga for them, and it's just the cars that I like. So I started to compare cars that I own, older cars to brand new vehicles. So there you go. There's a picture right there. On the right is my 1992 F150.

00:15:12:17 - 00:15:32:23
Ethan Tufts
On the left is a 2022 Ford F-150. Now, granted, the one on the left is four wheel drive. The one on the right is two wheel drive. So there's a little bit of difference there. But just in general, the difference in size is it's pretty it's pretty mindblowing how much cars of vehicles have grown. The the 2022 F150 is seven inches taller than mine.

00:15:32:23 - 00:15:49:06
Ethan Tufts
The hood is quite a bit taller. Even the bed in the back, I'm six foot three. I'm not a short person. The bed comes up, nearly the top of the bed comes up nearly to my chin. So we're making these vehicles larger, but they're not actually even more useful. And it's actually more difficult to put vehicle stuff in the back of the vehicle.

00:15:49:11 - 00:15:55:21
Ethan Tufts
Yeah, there's my daughter walking around our neighborhood and some of the vehicles that we encounter on a daily basis now.

00:15:56:05 - 00:16:00:19
John Simmerman
And I can't imagine what's the problem here. You know, I.

00:16:00:19 - 00:16:13:26
Ethan Tufts
Don't see any problem there. It's freedom. Freedom of choice. You can drive with whatever you want. You know, a lot of people say, well, your kids shouldn't be in the street kids. You should teach your kid to not walk in front of cars, that kind of thing. But yeah, if even a few, yeah.

00:16:14:26 - 00:16:15:28
John Simmerman
There's a few issues here.

00:16:17:17 - 00:16:37:11
Ethan Tufts
So yeah, you know, there's, there's also my Toyota Tacoma, which is a much smaller vehicle, even a new Toyota Tacoma is much bigger than my 20 year old Toyota Tacoma that I had. And, you know, it's kind of funny, if you look at the picture of of that one, the hood is much higher. New vehicles often have more more space inside.

00:16:37:29 - 00:17:01:29
Ethan Tufts
There's there's definitely more they're heavier because, yes, airbags can be heavy, the safety equipment can be heavy. But I think the funny thing to compare about these particular cars, the one on the left looks more capable, it looks more tough, but guess which one actually has more? GroundClear It's the old one, right? You know, so like as in terms of capabilities and having a four wheel drive vehicle do what you want it to do, the old one is going to perform better.

00:17:01:29 - 00:17:23:04
Ethan Tufts
Well, yeah. So there's, there's things like that. And, you know, part of the reason why safety gear is is heavy. But, you know, I it does appear as though a lot of the reasons why vehicles are getting larger is they want them to look, it's all marketing. They want it's esthetics. They want them to look more aggressive. They want customers want to tower over other other vehicles.

00:17:23:04 - 00:17:51:02
Ethan Tufts
And obviously, yes, this image shows especially SUVs and pickup trucks. The blind spots are incredibly huge, much bigger than the smaller vehicles. Yeah. And I think there's a question we need to ask is why are manufacturers killing off these small cars? It wasn't that long ago that you could buy a small little hatchback and get, you know, get to and from work with no big deal you could buy no no weren't that many blind spots that kind of thing.

00:17:51:02 - 00:18:25:07
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. Here's my friend Paul's Daihatsu charade. You know, it's just a cute, little adorable car, I will say. Yes, probably not very safe by today's standards. Safe for the occupants. But. Right. I think one of the reasons why automakers are pushing larger and larger vehicles is because they're much more profitable. You know, it's not just automakers car dealers to a car dealers going to try to push you into a larger vehicle because they're going to make a lot more, having dealt with a lot of auto manufacturers on reviews and that kind of thing, and looking at their press releases and reading their their specs and their spec sheets and all that on their vehicles, there's

00:18:25:21 - 00:18:49:04
Ethan Tufts
almost zero attention paid towards pedestrian or cyclists safety. It's all about it's all about the marketing of the vehicle. It's all about the sexiness. And you can see that in the new types of vehicles that are being proposed, you've got the Hummer EV, which is £9,000. It's almost four times the weight. As one of my 1980 sedans, the battery itself weighs as much as like a Honda Civic, right.

00:18:49:04 - 00:19:08:13
Ethan Tufts
You know, and these things are quick. They have tons of horsepower. You got President Biden touting these as being the the future of vehicles. But, you know, the Hummer, EV is absolutely going to kill people. I guarantee people are going to die because because this vehicle has the capabilities and the size and the weight that it does.

00:19:08:13 - 00:19:13:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. So I'm going to pop over to Twitter here real quick because you literally just 18 hours.

00:19:13:29 - 00:19:15:13
John Simmerman
Ago put this.

00:19:15:13 - 00:19:40:24
John Simmerman
Now we're actually recording this on on September 28th. And so it's a good portion of of what I've been following you is is out here on Twitter and seeing that you're pushing a lot of this stuff out. And, yeah, it's it's great. We used to be a proper country, I tell you. A proper country. Bring back the small, efficient, funky, adorable hatchbacks.

00:19:40:24 - 00:19:46:27
John Simmerman
Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. I think we have one of these, you know, adorable hatchbacks. It was a Honda, so.

00:19:47:03 - 00:19:49:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I mean.

00:19:49:03 - 00:19:50:25
Ethan Tufts
The thing is, obviously.

00:19:51:17 - 00:19:58:25
Ethan Tufts
With the shift towards larger and larger vehicles, people don't feel as safe in a car like that anymore. It's sort of this arms race towards larger and larger vehicles.

00:19:58:25 - 00:19:59:04
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:19:59:16 - 00:20:23:01
Ethan Tufts
And I think that the troubling thing is that even smaller SUVs, which people are moving to, things like, you know, the Toyota RAV4, Toyota Venza, Honda CRV, that kind of thing. You know, they they have worse visibility than the than cars of the past. You know, they have higher belt lines. The bigger blind spots. And a lot of these family cars have as much horsepower as sports cars from the eighties.

00:20:23:01 - 00:20:37:13
Ethan Tufts
So. Right. You know, the marketing of a theme is, is how is the capabilities and the and the specs and the perceived and the safety for the occupants. But they're far less safe for anybody outside of the car.

00:20:37:20 - 00:20:37:29
John Simmerman
Right.

00:20:39:09 - 00:20:57:26
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, I guess that also leads me to the other thing that I that I keep seeing in vehicles is the distracting technology that is being added to cars. You know, they've got more and more screens, got too many screens. You've got poorly implemented or poorly designed screens. You know, that's one of the reasons why I like driving cars from the eighties and nineties.

00:20:57:26 - 00:21:18:00
Ethan Tufts
They're smaller, they're easier to see out of and they don't have distracting technology. You actually have to pay attention, you know, part of it is, you know, being in an older car, there's less safety gear. You sort of have to I mentioned this in my video, like if everybody was forced to drive 80, sit boxes every single day, they'd probably be safer.

00:21:18:00 - 00:21:41:16
Ethan Tufts
They probably would be more careful behind the wheel. But you have all these screens now that is distracting people. I read this study about this. They compare this old excuse me, like 17 year old Volvo that had physical controls for the radio and the stereo and the AC. And they compared it to new cars with screens and the with the Volvo.

00:21:41:16 - 00:22:00:09
Ethan Tufts
It took about 10 seconds to complete these four tasks. They were asking the testers to do. And the worst car had a huge screen, very mounted, very low to the ground. So you have to take your eyes down, not looking out the out the window. And to complete those four task, it took four times the amount for 340 seconds instead of 10 seconds, and that traveled four times the distance.

00:22:00:09 - 00:22:19:21
Ethan Tufts
So you can see how there's some vehicles. I think the new Rivian Electric truck, you need to go into the menu to adjust your that. You know, it's ridiculous. And part of this is, you know cost savings. Yeah the if the manufacturer does not have to create custom switches, switchgear and buttons and that kind of thing, it's way cheaper to just have a screen and it's marketing.

00:22:19:21 - 00:22:49:21
Ethan Tufts
If you look at this picture right here, you've got this Mercedes XY, it looks awesome. I mean, the graphics are amazing. It's really good eye candy. It looks luxurious, but it's because I think we're seeing more and more technology like this because studies have shown that because of traffic, because of, you know, the stress that people have behind the wheel in cities and suburbs, a lot of people don't actually like driving.

00:22:50:01 - 00:23:09:07
Ethan Tufts
They'd much rather be doing something else. So this is one of the worst that's this is the Volkswagen Id4 that you picked up that you put right here. Like this is this is one of the most distracting, poorly designed systems that I've seen. And it actually was quite buggy, like buttons don't do you think they're supposed to do there's capacitive touch everywhere.

00:23:09:09 - 00:23:29:04
Ethan Tufts
Like, yeah, there's bugs. It's just it's it's bad. But, you know, I think if not only is it a lot of these implemented poorly, yeah, they're distracted, distracting. But I think I think that the reason why auto manufacturers are adding stuff like this is it's eye candy. It it takes people's minds away from the fact that they're doing something that they'd rather not be doing.

00:23:29:04 - 00:23:48:14
Ethan Tufts
They'd rather be on Twitter, they'd rather be looking at cat videos on TikTok. That's why you see so many people on their phones in traffic all the time. You've got people looking at their phones, at stoplights or, you know, when they think they can get away with it. It's because there are so many people in car dependent places that don't want to drive.

00:23:48:15 - 00:24:07:27
Ethan Tufts
They have to, but they don't have it really. You know, maybe they haven't ever thought that there was another way that was possible. They just want to get to their destination conveniently and efficiently and another another convenient and efficient way has not been presented to them. So they'll they'll drive their car distracted.

00:24:08:06 - 00:24:08:15
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:24:08:21 - 00:24:10:01
Ethan Tufts
You know, because they don't want to be there.

00:24:10:22 - 00:24:13:25
Ethan Tufts
And automakers know this too. Automakers know this. That's why they're adding.

00:24:13:25 - 00:24:16:08
Ethan Tufts
This stuff because they know that driving sucks sometimes.

00:24:16:13 - 00:24:40:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, well, and there's there's a huge disconnect too between the reality he of, of what it's like to drive and what we're what we're shown, you know, what, what's out there in terms of marketing. And so this is a this is an ad that you sit through and there's no sound to it. So we can just kind of talk right over it.

00:24:41:01 - 00:24:58:01
Ethan Tufts
But I compiled I compiled about 30 car ads. Yeah. All the same. Yeah, this is this is this is not just one out. This is about 30 ads where you couldn't even tell which car company is because at all, they all show the same thing, right? They all show the narrative of freedom, you know.

00:24:58:22 - 00:25:00:09
John Simmerman
Wide open roads, no traffic.

00:25:00:09 - 00:25:19:26
Ethan Tufts
Yes, exactly. And then, you know, a lot like this one right here, they're showing illegal things, you know, knowing that buyers. Right. Do want to do some of those things. They do want to drive faster than everybody else and get around everybody. But, you know, these these things are pushing the idea of cars as freedom. But in reality, it really looks like this.

00:25:19:26 - 00:25:35:23
Ethan Tufts
You know, maybe in a rural area. Yeah. You'll have a you'll have a great wide open road. Sure, sure. But you know, it sort of reminds me of like the Big Mac analogy where, you know, the commercials of a big Mac, they look so beautiful. It looks like the best sandwich in the world. And they go to McDonald's and it literally barely looks like food.

00:25:36:00 - 00:25:36:11
John Simmerman
Right.

00:25:37:00 - 00:25:56:29
Ethan Tufts
So it's the same thing with these car commercials. I mean, I understand that there's a practical element to filming a car commercial with no other cars around. That's there's probably a reason why they don't want to have to deal with traffic when they're filming a commercial. But. Right. It's all about, you know, giving this idea that this this car is going to solve all your problems.

00:25:56:29 - 00:25:59:29
Ethan Tufts
Like, you know, like almost all marketing does, right? You know.

00:26:01:04 - 00:26:41:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's and it's also what you were saying earlier reminds me too of some of the framing that Peter Norton has in his most recent book, A Ton of Drama. And he talks about how the auto manufacturers were were really working on being able to create vehicles that every year, you know, they're creating something that, you know, something's new, something's blingy, something's this because they didn't want to just, like, sell a person a car and have that person own that car until it's obsolescence.

00:26:41:29 - 00:27:14:07
John Simmerman
They wanted to be able to, you know, continue with the the whiz bangs and the blessings and the this and this type of thing. New special color this year, because they really wanted to have people coming back to that showroom for the next greatest thing. And so I could totally see like with the screens and all of the, the stuff that's that's going into them that this is this is about new car sales and keeping that flywheel of people coming back to the showroom for that.

00:27:14:27 - 00:27:39:15
Ethan Tufts
Sure. And right now, it's it's it's the screens. It's that technology. It's the promise of self-driving cars, the promise of, you know, autonomous vehicles, the promise of of more efficient electric cars. But I think it's sort of important to think about what is the real purpose of self-driving technology, what is the real impetus behind, you know, automakers shifting to electric?

00:27:40:17 - 00:28:01:17
Ethan Tufts
I don't think there is this grand plan to make the world a better place. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, autonomous cars, self-driving cars, electric cars, they're all here to help the car industry. They're not here to save the planet. They're not here to save lives. They're not here to make to to reduce traffic. They're here to help the car industry.

00:28:01:25 - 00:28:27:18
Ethan Tufts
And, yeah, maybe there's some added benefit of of fewer, less, you know, CO2 emissions being expelled by some of these vehicles. But I think that's a lot of the things what you're talking about, you know, the new color, that kind of thing. I think that's where the the promise of self-driving tech is, is that, again, automakers know that a lot of people don't like driving, they don't want to be there, but they need they they need that cash money.

00:28:27:18 - 00:28:35:22
Ethan Tufts
They need to find a way to keep selling cars to people that that, you know and create keep keep the system where people need them.

00:28:35:22 - 00:28:36:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:36:17 - 00:29:05:17
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, it's interesting, too, because like, you know, talking about like the motivations of car companies. Yeah, there's obviously some people that work at car companies that really care about safety, but that's not really seen. That's not really marketed. That's not really you know, you don't really see that those types of discussions when when cars are marketed anyhow, there's some there's some good technologies coming out like auto braking that helps, you know, protect pedestrians.

00:29:05:17 - 00:29:25:25
Ethan Tufts
But, you know, Europe's far ahead of us on this. And, you know, if you look back at the history of the push back of the auto industry on safety tech like there was so much pushback on seatbelts, you know, I don't think car manufacturers are going to be adding any technology to cars that protect pedestrians and cyclists unless they're absolutely forced to.

00:29:25:28 - 00:29:27:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:29:08 - 00:29:40:05
John Simmerman
The I have to pull up this this photo here. You sure you have this? There's this one labeled in car enthusiasts.

00:29:40:05 - 00:29:40:20
Ethan Tufts
Yes.

00:29:41:14 - 00:29:41:26
Ethan Tufts
I mean.

00:29:42:23 - 00:30:05:10
Ethan Tufts
Everybody's experience, everybody that's been in the car has experienced this. And some people experience this far more than others do. Yeah. You know, this came from a Streetsblog article about how their studies that show that there's just a lot of people that don't like driving. Yeah. And if presented with a convenient and a safe and efficient alternative, a lot of people would would switch.

00:30:05:14 - 00:30:15:27
Ethan Tufts
Yeah, you know, and you know, I think there's, there's the there's that side of it where it's like, you know, people are just going to do whatever's more convenient.

00:30:15:27 - 00:30:31:12
John Simmerman
And so you just mentioned Streetsblog and so you had a chance to be interviewed. And I have an article written up by my good friend Kyla Wilson. And so you ended up on Streetsblog USA, and here it is.

00:30:32:17 - 00:30:47:23
Ethan Tufts
It's funny because I as you know, as somebody that's hasn't really been in this world, you know, everything every single one of your guests is going to know more about street design and urbanism and all that kind of than I am. I'm like completely new to all this, but so I was like, Oh, I've never heard of Streetsblog before.

00:30:47:23 - 00:30:48:12
Ethan Tufts
This is pretty cool.

00:30:48:14 - 00:30:49:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah.

00:30:49:29 - 00:31:20:02
John Simmerman
It's so cool. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I've been steeped in this for the last 15 years in in the realm of disease prevention, health promotion, and trying to build communities that encourage healthy, active behavior for the past 30 some odd years. And so, you know, that's and that's exactly what I studied at USC was exercise physiology and immediately went on and did my masters in Public Health and kinesiology at the University of Michigan.

00:31:20:12 - 00:31:35:08
John Simmerman
But it's it's so cool when I see, you know, this type of thing where you you found your way to this. And and and then you were just like, holy moly, what did I tap into?

00:31:35:19 - 00:31:36:09
John Simmerman
I mean.

00:31:36:09 - 00:32:06:07
John Simmerman
You didn't you didn't anticipate getting this type of attention from us, but we're like, cool. We've got this car enthusiast that has, like, realize something of his own volition and created this content. And in yeah I watched the Twitter storm and of of folks in the bike and pedestrian and safer streets advocacy and urbanism and they they kind of like guys you got to check out this video that Ethan did.

00:32:06:07 - 00:32:14:01
John Simmerman
This is really, really cool. So talk a little bit about that. You know, sort of in the wake of all of this, all that attention that you had.

00:32:15:08 - 00:32:17:02
Ethan Tufts
You know, I think part of it was.

00:32:17:17 - 00:32:30:02
Ethan Tufts
I think I've sort of always realized that that there's a difference between somebody that's in a car, like a person in a car versus a car enthusiast. The person that's just in the car just needs to get where they want to go. Car enthusiast.

00:32:30:02 - 00:32:31:04
John Simmerman
So you mean this person?

00:32:31:16 - 00:32:32:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, exactly.

00:32:33:07 - 00:32:35:06
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. They're trying to get where they want to go.

00:32:35:06 - 00:32:37:04
Ethan Tufts
I think. I think a car enthusiast is.

00:32:37:04 - 00:32:59:08
Ethan Tufts
Somebody that, you know, actually really appreciates car design. They may appreciate the technology. They may really like driving in situations where that are very unlike that photo. So I think but I think that sometimes that those people can be the same. You know, I have to get my kid to school. I have to most of my while I try to make most of my car activities fun.

00:32:59:09 - 00:33:00:11
Ethan Tufts
Most of them are not.

00:33:01:02 - 00:33:02:23
Ethan Tufts
But I think I found that.

00:33:03:26 - 00:33:26:05
Ethan Tufts
There are a lot of car enthusiasts that are very open to these types of ideas because, you know, they want to have fun driving, they want to enjoy cars. And you know, if you have you know, if they're thinking about all of the fatalities every single year, if they think about all the traffic that they have to deal with, they're probably going to want more, more and more people to switch to other modes of transport.

00:33:26:17 - 00:33:48:23
Ethan Tufts
That way, when they do drive a car, it's more pleasant. And I think there's a lot of car enthusiasts that I, you know, after making this video, a lot of car enthusiasts reached out to me and they they said, oh, yeah, this this resonates with me. I never really thought about it before. But it's important to me because, you know, nobody wants to have people die from car from, you know, automotive crashes.

00:33:49:08 - 00:34:17:22
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, I think it's also something that that car enthusiasts and, you know, people that are advocates for safe streets, we should be working together. You know, we should be it's it's in car enthusiasts best interests to care about these things. And I, I think that there are a lot of car enthusiasts that do. On the other side of the coin, there are, you know, I have a lot of car potential car buyers and car shoppers that visit my channel.

00:34:19:07 - 00:34:41:00
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, I think it's important to try to for me to think about how can I talk to them in a way that isn't alienating right now. I you know, I think what you heard on that little clip of my video, you know, was trying to figure out should I just quit and close the channel down because I feel like I'm I'm doing something that's making the world worse.

00:34:41:08 - 00:35:03:00
Ethan Tufts
You know, I'm not making the world better by promoting these things that are getting increasingly larger and more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. But then I started to really kind of try to try to work out if there is a way to talk to potential car shoppers and see if there is, you know, people who are actively looking to buy a car.

00:35:03:00 - 00:35:25:25
Ethan Tufts
These are people that are like within the next few months might be might be buying something. Can I convince them to not buy a car, maybe to buy or at the very least consider something smaller and more efficient and more safe for people outside the car? And, you know, I haven't really quite figured out how to do that because it's also something that you're not used to seeing.

00:35:26:13 - 00:35:47:15
Ethan Tufts
People aren't used to seeing this type of conversation in the automotive world. You know, if you look at like how most automotive journalists talk about new cars, it's all about the features, it's all about the sexiness. It's all about like creating this building, this story of like how how fun this car is going to be or how useful it's going to be for you.

00:35:47:18 - 00:36:04:08
Ethan Tufts
There's very, very few automotive journalists that are actually talking about the safety of people outside the car. So there might be a way I haven't like I said, I haven't quite figured it out yet, but there might be a way to try to incorporate that into my messaging. I did a little bit of that in my recent Mazda, a five minute video.

00:36:04:08 - 00:36:24:02
Ethan Tufts
And one of the reasons why I love that vehicle so much is because it's so small. It is because visibility is so good. It is because it is so lightweight. You know, if and there's there might be a way to to sort of standardize talking about blind spots. I know that there are some organizations that are doing this.

00:36:24:20 - 00:36:43:11
Ethan Tufts
You know, if there's there are ways to measure blind spots of vehicles and perhaps in my videos, I can do that for all new vehicles that I'm reviewing. So that way, for instance, you could see that maybe a Honda Fit has a a blind spot of zero children. What if I measured it in children? How many children? Consider these blind spots?

00:36:43:11 - 00:37:02:00
Ethan Tufts
Maybe a Dodge Ram? 2500 has a 200 child blind spot. And I think if people heard about it in those terms and and thought about, oh, I never really I think a lot of car buyers don't even consider that. Yeah. They just think of the features of like, okay, well let's fit my family, you know, maybe what's the gas mileage?

00:37:02:07 - 00:37:17:23
Ethan Tufts
Does it have the appropriate safety features? Does it have Apple, CarPlay or Android Auto? That's the kind of things people are thinking about. But if they really kind of considered, oh, there is a very high risk of me running over my child in my own driveway. If I have this vehicle, maybe I'll consider something that's easier to see out of.

00:37:18:00 - 00:37:19:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I.

00:37:19:28 - 00:37:22:14
John Simmerman
I rarely get excited about new cars.

00:37:23:03 - 00:37:24:22
John Simmerman
So I just don't. I mean.

00:37:24:22 - 00:37:51:29
John Simmerman
I'm sure I'm on that at. At this point. I haven't personally owned a car in quite some time since we made the move from Hawaii here to Austin, Texas. And and we've got one car at household here and that we share. And honestly, we hardly ever drive it. It's usually reserved for long road trips because we're able to meet our daily needs by, you know, walking and biking.

00:37:53:04 - 00:38:24:02
John Simmerman
And, you know, when Laura needs to commute, she can jump on her bike and go go to the office. And I'm producing these podcasts and these videos here from the Home Office in our little bungalow here. So it's just not a thing. But I was walking this morning and saw one of the neighbors had a had his new mini Cooper plugged in and I'm not sure if it's a hybrid or if it's a full on electric vehicle, but it was pretty decent size.

00:38:24:02 - 00:38:44:02
John Simmerman
I mean, it was it was very small, decent meaning. It wasn't too big. And like, again, I hardly ever get excited about any new cars, but it's almost shocking when you actually see a reasonably sized vehicle that, you know is you know sort of similar to that little hatchback that we were looking at. You know, this is not just this monster behemoth.

00:38:44:28 - 00:39:16:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. Talk with me a little bit about the fact that this is an artifact of what the manufacturers can get away with. Because in Europe, where there's standard modes of being able to hold the manufacturers accountable to the damage that they might cause to people outside the motor vehicles the manufacturers are creating different vehicles for those markets. And so it's not like we're you know, we have to just accept what we're getting here.

00:39:16:17 - 00:39:34:03
John Simmerman
And, you know, because they don't know how to make a smaller vehicle anymore. So 150 is going to be the size of an F-150, which is a monster size now compared as we saw in that comparison photo to what used to be there in 1992 or it gives.

00:39:35:11 - 00:40:13:15
Ethan Tufts
You know, this is something that I am not incredibly well versed, that well-versed in. You know, there are obviously Europe has some pretty strict standards for pedestrian safety. Honestly, I don't really know what types of regulations have here. I know there's certain things in terms of, you know, like headlights and that kind of thing. But I think that, you know, with the with the way that these larger cars are being marketed, I'm not sure if there's going to be any way to to help this other than regulating some of it.

00:40:13:15 - 00:40:23:21
Ethan Tufts
Right. Or to really try to convince people that, you know, what I'm trying to do, trying to convince people that, you know, maybe maybe smaller cars are better. You know, maybe there's a better.

00:40:24:24 - 00:40:44:28
John Simmerman
I'm laughing because one of the things that part of my head is they're just going to throw technology at us. And I know that they already are. They're they're like, oh, rather than rather than resize these vehicles to a reasonable size, let's throw cameras. And so we'll have a camera, you know, being able to detect if there's somebody behind or somebody in front of us.

00:40:45:06 - 00:41:05:29
Ethan Tufts
Sure. Well, and that's the thing. I have a photo in that folder on the car size of the Cadillac Escalade. You know, it's one of the largest like like three recipes you can buy and. Yeah, yeah, there's a front camera there. Right. And it's you know, it's a very as a very gigantic hood, very difficult to see out the front.

00:41:06:09 - 00:41:42:10
Ethan Tufts
And you kind of need it. You kind of need that front camera. If you're if you're if you really want to be careful about not hitting people. Yeah, I think that's the you know, like I said, I'm not too I'm not too over some of the regulation side of things. But, you know, I think one of the things that the result of these larger vehicles, the result of of more and more of these vehicles being on the road is one of the one of the things that got me so fired up about, you know, having to change was just the amount of fatalities.

00:41:42:14 - 00:42:11:24
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. That that we see every single year due to drivers and yeah I don't I don't know the way that I don't know the way to solve it to make vehicles smaller. But I do know that there there's just I think if more and more people really started to understand the the hugeness of this problem and the fact that now we've had 43,000 deaths due to cars in 2021, that's that's the most since 2005, almost 8000 pedestrian deaths.

00:42:11:24 - 00:42:27:11
Ethan Tufts
That's the most in 40 years. Right. You know, we've got pretty sure we have a higher death rate than most other developed nations. And even per miles driven, we have a higher death rate than most of Europe. And, you know, like I said, with these cars getting larger and larger, I don't see it getting any better.

00:42:27:28 - 00:42:53:23
John Simmerman
And well. And for me and from a car enthusiast perspective, too, I mean, it's also not an experience that we really enjoy. And in fact, one of the one of the greatest statistics that I that that I glom onto with how well the Dutch are doing with their mobility networks in general, is that there's a high level of satisfaction from the driver's perspective.

00:42:54:22 - 00:43:15:13
John Simmerman
They have a good experience because people have options. And so the people who are left to drive are those who either really, really want to drive or really, really need to drive, but people who, you know, would really rather not drive. It's a pain in the butt. They have options.

00:43:16:05 - 00:43:38:23
Ethan Tufts
Sure, exactly. And that's you know, that me being in Los Angeles and having, you know, being in one of the more car dependent places of Los Angeles, I think that's that's just it. If I had convenient options, that would get me to where I needed to go as quickly as a car. You know, I think that's the thing is like sometimes depending on where you're going, the car's not going to be faster.

00:43:39:05 - 00:44:02:24
Ethan Tufts
But most of the time, even if there is traffic, even if there is traffic, it's going to be faster because we have so few dedicated bus lanes here. Right? We have so few protected bike lanes, that kind of thing. So, you know, the busses are just getting in the same in the same traffic as cars. And, you know, it's just it's just I think the thing that's so silly about it is it doesn't take that many people to shift to other modes to increase traffic.

00:44:02:28 - 00:44:19:04
Ethan Tufts
Right. You know, you've probably talked about this with other gas, but it's just you know, I haven't really thought about it until recently. It's like, you know, we have everybody driving around in their own air conditioned living rooms and it turns out it's hard to fit a lot of living rooms on all of the streets that we have in Los Angeles.

00:44:19:13 - 00:44:32:17
Ethan Tufts
They're just cars are just geometrically inefficient. Yeah, you have ways of transporting people. And like you said, I think if there's a lot of people we talked about, there's a lot of people that don't like driving, even if they maybe don't know it yet.

00:44:32:25 - 00:44:33:04
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:44:33:08 - 00:44:53:15
Ethan Tufts
And if they had another option, they would probably only take it if it meant that they could do other things they could read, they could be on their phone, they could, you know, get some work done, that kind of thing. Yeah. And it I, it doesn't take, like I said, it doesn't take that many people to shift to other modes to reduce traffic waste from the studies that I've seen.

00:44:54:06 - 00:45:00:22
John Simmerman
Well, let's listen to Ethan of the past here. Just just a short a one minute clip.

00:45:00:22 - 00:45:22:00
Ethan Tufts
So what does this mean about the types of videos I'll be making moving forward? I'm tempted to just stop making videos with new cars altogether, but I think there might be a benefit to me continuing it, but taking a much more critical look at the environmental cost, pedestrian safety aspects, efficiency, size, weight, visibility, distracting technology and the true cost of car ownership.

00:45:23:10 - 00:45:45:01
Ethan Tufts
I live in one of the most car dominated, traffic prone places on the planet, and quite honestly, I'm sick of having to use cars for things that suck in situations that suck. I love to get to a point where I only use cars for fun activities, road trips, canning road drives, off roading, driving on racetracks and decorating cars based on stupid funds.

00:45:45:07 - 00:46:09:24
Ethan Tufts
I'd like to try to avoid using cars for anything else. I know that isn't incredibly realistic, but I'd like to slowly move towards that if I can. It might mean having to move to a more walkable neighborhood. It might mean getting involved with local organizations that are helping to make streets safer. Okay, so in the end, I guess I've learned that I don't actually hate cars, but I do really hate car dependency.

00:46:10:02 - 00:46:23:06
Ethan Tufts
And I've learned that you can enjoy cars but still want to do something about unsafe streets, traffic and pedestrian fatalities. As car enthusiasts, it's actually in our best interest to care about these things and want to do something about them. It doesn't have to be an either or situation.

00:46:24:16 - 00:46:27:07
John Simmerman
I love it. And that's exactly what you just do.

00:46:28:07 - 00:46:29:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:30:00 - 00:46:42:05
Ethan Tufts
It's a you know, I, again, I, I, I kind of went back and forth with this. I really tried to figure out do actually really hate cars now. I just hate having to use cars for everything. I want them to be fun.

00:46:42:05 - 00:46:45:14
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Car dependance. Yeah.

00:46:46:02 - 00:46:58:25
Ethan Tufts
The fact that we have the system where in order to participate in society, you know, to get to work, to get to your doctor, to get, you know, to get your kid to school, you know, you were forced to drive.

00:46:58:26 - 00:46:59:19
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:00:03 - 00:47:22:00
John Simmerman
Now, you the a follow up video to that particular video, you fulfilled your promise of wanting to talk about the true cost of cars. And so walk us through you've got a series of slides that you sent my way here in various graphics. So take it away.

00:47:22:18 - 00:47:24:08
Ethan Tufts
Sure. Well, you know, I think.

00:47:24:26 - 00:47:46:21
Ethan Tufts
Like like I said, there's a lot of people don't feel like there's an alternative to driving and people spending, you know, 80, 9000 thousand dollars on a brand new luxury pickup truck. A lot of people just don't see how financially ridiculous that is. They just they they sort of internally know they they need a car. They might as well make it something that they're going to enjoy.

00:47:47:15 - 00:48:05:22
Ethan Tufts
So this right here, this is triple A's. This is like this, you know, Triple A is an organization that is around to promote driving. And even they're saying that it's costing almost 11 grand a year for the average American to operate a car. And it's probably a little bit higher now, you know, if you factor in the gas prices of the last year or so.

00:48:06:19 - 00:48:27:21
Ethan Tufts
So if you look at a lifetime of I just picked 50 years, you might actually be driving longer than that depending on how long the person lives, but 50 years driving about 11 grand a year. We're at $536,000 you've spent in a lifetime of driving. Yeah. And you know, if you look at the opportunity cost of that, of like, okay, what if I wasn't driving?

00:48:27:21 - 00:48:49:03
Ethan Tufts
What if I instead invested that money? You know, depending on how you calculate it, you could have $7 million in opportunity cost over 5 million years as our works department. 5 million years over 50 years. All right. You know, to to own a car throughout your life. So there's I think a lot of people don't think about I got to imagine most people don't really think about it.

00:48:49:03 - 00:48:53:17
Ethan Tufts
They just think of it as a given. But it's a huge financial burden. You know, the average.

00:48:53:27 - 00:48:55:06
John Simmerman
That's quite the sunk cost.

00:48:55:25 - 00:48:58:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, if parking, if.

00:48:58:26 - 00:49:08:23
Ethan Tufts
Exactly if you go to the slide, that is I think there's average car payment or car price not that one.

00:49:08:23 - 00:49:09:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, I'm right here.

00:49:09:28 - 00:49:25:21
Ethan Tufts
So yeah, right now this is nuts that the average car payment in the US for a new car is $712 a month. You know, that's almost, again, almost $9,000 a year. That's. So if you bought a new car, you're just at 9000 a year. Just for the car.

00:49:25:21 - 00:49:26:28
John Simmerman
Just for the car. Right.

00:49:27:00 - 00:49:55:04
Ethan Tufts
Fuel insurance, you know, all this. All those other associated costs. Yeah. The average, average new car price today is $48,000 less than a decade ago, it was 30. Yeah. You know, so if you think, okay, $48,000 car price, if you have good credit, you're probably spending 13 grand and interest over the lifetime of the loan. If you have bad credit, the total loan might cost you almost 90 grand for this average car.

00:49:55:05 - 00:50:07:28
Ethan Tufts
Right? Right. And by that point, you know, you've got 90,000 miles on this car. You spent, you know, $90,000 on. So, yeah, there's and I guess the other the other thing that's nuts to me is this and.

00:50:08:04 - 00:50:10:13
John Simmerman
Oh, and by the way, you do have a graphic on that.

00:50:10:13 - 00:50:11:09
Ethan Tufts
Okay, there it is.

00:50:11:09 - 00:50:12:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:13:08 - 00:50:24:28
Ethan Tufts
And that's yeah, that's the bad interest rate. So 20% interest. That's just nuts. If you have bad credit. Yeah, the good credit average is about 8%, which is still seems pretty high, right. Right. Yeah.

00:50:25:22 - 00:50:27:18
John Simmerman
Although those rates are going up. Yeah.

00:50:27:26 - 00:50:55:18
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. And I think the thing that's nuts in this is coming from somebody that owns 13 vehicles is that in my percentage is going to be probably higher than the average. But average American household in 2020, when driving was low compared to other years, there was 60% of your expenses. Yeah. So that's the second largest expense after housing, it's more than we spend on food, which is just insane to me.

00:50:55:18 - 00:51:18:11
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. Yeah. So this is if you own a new car, this is you could be spending 14 grand a year on a car. Yeah. And I think the other thing that's that's crazy is that, you know, 60% is the average household expenditure, you know, for lower household, lower income households, it can be as high as 29%. Right. So it really shows you that car ownership is like a regressive tax.

00:51:18:11 - 00:51:25:14
Ethan Tufts
You know, it's it's not going to cost unless I mean, unless you can find a way to buy a cheap car and keep it running on the cheap. Yeah. Which is often hard to do.

00:51:25:29 - 00:51:32:07
John Simmerman
Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that that's kind of what your game has been.

00:51:33:10 - 00:51:34:00
John Simmerman
Yes.

00:51:34:12 - 00:51:54:24
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. Well, and I tend to buy cars that are a little bit older than the average person. Right. Right. Yeah. And they're they've been a huge, huge expense. So I owned a 19, 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo, which is a lovely cards. It's fun to drive. Yeah, that's the design right here. Yeah, it's that one right there. It's got pop up headlights.

00:51:54:24 - 00:52:03:11
Ethan Tufts
It's just epitome of 1980s. Yeah, eighties car design. I listen to, like eighties music when I drive it because it just puts me in that, like, this solid. Right?

00:52:03:12 - 00:52:04:14
John Simmerman
Right.

00:52:04:14 - 00:52:24:17
Ethan Tufts
But that car, I, I am about to create a video with it to calculate the cost per mile. And I don't even want to admit this, but I spent so much money on that car. The cost per mile is $5, $55 a mile. Right. To drive that to drive to own and operate.

00:52:24:17 - 00:52:26:05
John Simmerman
That's not per gallon, folks.

00:52:26:05 - 00:52:28:06
John Simmerman
That's $5 per mile.

00:52:28:20 - 00:52:50:28
Ethan Tufts
And obviously, this is a this is a extreme case. Right. If you bought a used Toyota Corolla, it's not going to do that to you. Right. But still, you know, if the amount people spend on cars is pretty nuts. And I think it's nuts. I think it's crazy because the average car sits it's parked right now 96% of the time.

00:52:50:28 - 00:53:13:18
Ethan Tufts
So you're putting all this money towards something that just sits in your garage or sits in a parking spot. And I, I wish you know, I wish I had thought that a little bit more before owning 50 cars throughout my life. Yeah, but, you know, again, I will justify it saying that I do try to I do try to keep my car experience as fun.

00:53:14:05 - 00:53:17:25
Ethan Tufts
But but it is a lot of money for, for something that's a hobby.

00:53:18:01 - 00:53:19:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Well.

00:53:20:01 - 00:53:48:13
John Simmerman
As you mentioned, you know, it's a little bit of a business expense in terms of, you know, for the channel and and all of that. I mean, this this price tag here on an annualized basis, this is like buying the absolute best e-cargo bike with suspension and still have a couple grand left over every year. So you can have a brand new E-Cargo bike pimped out every year.

00:53:49:03 - 00:53:52:15
Ethan Tufts
So yes, yeah, yes. Yep. That's a good way to look at it for sure. Yeah.

00:53:53:01 - 00:54:18:27
John Simmerman
Because people honestly, because that's one of the challenges of the electric assist technology that's coming out with the bikes they have. Really wonderful. Especially if you have a Bosch motor and and battery system, they don't come cheap. You know, these are these are pricey, you know, bicycles from a bicycle perspective. But then when you put it into that context, it is cheap.

00:54:18:27 - 00:54:19:02
Ethan Tufts
Yeah.

00:54:19:22 - 00:54:22:05
John Simmerman
It is very cheap. Dirt cheap. Well.

00:54:22:19 - 00:54:39:07
Ethan Tufts
And I think I see a lot of those tweets on on Twitter about how, you know, people people talk about the cost of these e-cargo bikes and they they sort of feel like this is sort of this elitist thing where you're spending $14,000 on a bike. Because I think a lot of people think of a bike as recreation.

00:54:39:07 - 00:54:51:03
Ethan Tufts
They think of a bike as something that you had as a kid and you kind of grow your way out of it. Right. But they're not thinking of that the same way as spending $90,000 on a F-250 Chicken Ranch edition, you know?

00:54:51:13 - 00:54:53:05
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. You know.

00:54:53:27 - 00:55:16:14
John Simmerman
What's interesting, too, about Los Angeles? Up until my grandmother passed away a couple of years ago, I would fly into into LAX with my little folding bike and from from the airport there. I'd, you know, jump on the little shuttle bus over to catch the the rail system. And I can't remember the name of I guess it's the green line.

00:55:16:14 - 00:55:44:21
John Simmerman
I'd get on the green line and then get off to the transfer to, you know, get on the, the, the line that, you know, heads downtown and, you know, going right past USC in campus and then jump off. And in fact, I frequently I just jump off at USC to to to jump on the bike and to fool around a little bit to see how campus is transforming because it's becoming more and more walkable, bikeable.

00:55:44:21 - 00:56:12:10
John Simmerman
It's amazing to see how that campus has transformed since the 1980s. But then, you know, I'd ride around downtown a little bit and then head on downtown to the station where I'd jump on the gold line and then head on out through Pasadena and then head as far east as I could get, which at the time was I think I had to get off at a zoo and then from a zoo so I could then ride the bike the rest of the way to Glendora to to get to my grandmother's house.

00:56:12:23 - 00:56:45:07
John Simmerman
And, gee, what did I just do? I just went across the entire air basin of Los Angeles, and and I didn't have to get into an automobile the entire time. It is possible. It is possible. But it's it's certainly not what I would call all ages and abilities and really, truly, you know, welcoming to somebody who doesn't know the transit system, doesn't know, you know, how to get on to some of the quieter streets.

00:56:45:13 - 00:57:06:13
John Simmerman
So you're avoiding some of the bigger streets and, you know, and quite frankly, I know my way around L.A. on a bike. And so it's it's it's something that like, I know some of the beautiful old neighborhoods that you can take, you know, all the way from Hollywood down to the downtown area. I mean, you have some amazing, you know, neighborhoods that that can be done.

00:57:06:13 - 00:57:18:18
John Simmerman
And those are the quiet residential streets that are sort of like this invisible network that is like right there and and so many people don't even know about them.

00:57:19:13 - 00:57:46:00
Ethan Tufts
Sure. Yeah. I think that's the thing for a lot of people that are trying to get around. They want convenience, they want efficiency. And, you know, if you just I think a lot of people that they're just trying to get to work, they're not going to be willing to do that unless it gets, you know, less. They make it easier, make it more efficient, make it feel, you know, feel safer.

00:57:46:00 - 00:58:06:09
Ethan Tufts
And the thing is, I think that's you know, I've used the subways, I've used the trains a lot in Los Angeles, and they're they're pretty good. You know, they need to run much more regularly to be useful. There's plenty of times where I was, you know, out late and the train just stopped running and we had to try to catch like three busses to get to where we need to go.

00:58:06:09 - 00:58:15:07
Ethan Tufts
And, you know, depending on your sense of adventure, that may not be that fun for somebody, you know, two in the morning, right? Yeah.

00:58:15:07 - 00:58:15:23
John Simmerman
Well, you know, and.

00:58:15:23 - 00:58:41:17
John Simmerman
To your to your point, though, like, say you've got kids with you and yeah, you can't have when you look at behavior modification and when you're looking at trying to establish new patterns of mobility, you can't all sudden just start throwing a whole bunch of friction at people like you said. Sure, it has to be as easy as that habit of just reaching for the car keys, jumping in and doing it and doing it mindlessly.

00:58:41:23 - 00:58:55:25
John Simmerman
Even though that trip might have been inherently walkable or bikeable and from a distance perspective. But if it's not enjoyable, if there's a lot of friction there, if it doesn't feel safe, that's one of the biggest challenges.

00:58:56:14 - 00:59:19:21
Ethan Tufts
Sure. And I think there's so many based on my experience in the places that I have lived in Los Angeles, there's lots of very dangerous roads, very thin sidewalks, a lot of sidewalks that are obstructed. There's this one sidewalk right by my house that's been obstructed for about ten years. You know, I call about I call the Department of Transportation 311 all the time.

00:59:19:21 - 00:59:29:07
Ethan Tufts
And they eventually the homeowner will clean up clean up the shrubs and you can actually walk through there. Yeah, but, you know, there's there's plenty of areas without curbs.

00:59:29:12 - 00:59:52:08
John Simmerman
You actually bring up a really good point, though, right there of what you just said is, is that the way that many cities in North America approach the public realm, the right of way is they shift the sidewalk over to the responsibility of the property owner, which when you really think of it, we don't do that for motor vehicles.

00:59:52:08 - 00:59:52:23
Ethan Tufts
Correct.

00:59:53:19 - 01:00:03:28
John Simmerman
I mean, it's just it's asinine that we shift that responsibility of the right of way of the public realm to the homeowner or to to have to do that.

01:00:04:03 - 01:00:05:04
Ethan Tufts
You know, exactly.

01:00:05:04 - 01:00:09:05
John Simmerman
It doesn't even take into consideration whether the homeowner has the ability to do that.

01:00:09:19 - 01:00:24:18
Ethan Tufts
Well. And for this particular house, I'm not I don't even think they do. You know, I believe there are older folks that live there. I can't they have a big wall so I can actually, like ring the doorbell or anything. Yeah, but yeah, it is, it is one of those things where I'm not sure they can take care of it.

01:00:24:19 - 01:00:26:18
Ethan Tufts
Yeah. And they shouldn't, they shouldn't have to.

01:00:26:21 - 01:00:26:27
John Simmerman
Yeah.

01:00:27:03 - 01:00:29:19
John Simmerman
Well we made the same thing in snowy environments too.

01:00:29:24 - 01:00:30:03
Ethan Tufts
Yeah.

01:00:30:11 - 01:00:49:27
John Simmerman
So you, you go into a, you know, a city. You know, I'm familiar with Boulder, Colorado, because I lived there for a decade and it was the responsibility of the homeowner to make sure that you shoveled the sidewalk so that, you know, people walking on the sidewalk didn't trample it down and then start to create black ice, you know, icy conditions on the sidewalk.

01:00:50:10 - 01:01:01:18
John Simmerman
And so that response ability, again, got shifted over to the, you know, the homeowner, but it's not the homeowner's responsibility to it to plow the street, so.

01:01:01:25 - 01:01:29:19
Ethan Tufts
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's frustrating because, you know, like we talked about the mobility plan that Los Angeles is not following. Yeah, you know, there's this big problem, these very dangerous roads, very, very tough to cycle safely. I mean, I, I generally if I'm biking, I'll just ride on the sidewalk. You know, I know that in a lot of in Los Angeles, I believe it's mostly legal unless you're in unincorporated areas and it's not, but it's just it's safer.

01:01:29:19 - 01:01:37:11
Ethan Tufts
You know, obviously, if there's pedestrians, I'll walk the bike or go or, you know, or to go around them. But sure. But but, you know, it's there's very.

01:01:37:20 - 01:01:38:21
Ethan Tufts
There are some.

01:01:39:07 - 01:01:57:29
Ethan Tufts
There is some infrastructure that is popping up in Los Angeles. This is trying you know, they're trying to do it, but they're also making some really terrible mistakes. You know, in my neighborhood, one of the more car dependent areas of Los Angeles that I know of, they moved. They have removed three sidewalks and one of them was a school crossing.

01:01:59:08 - 01:02:19:27
Ethan Tufts
And basically they just they put up a sign for a few days saying if you have comment on this sidewalk or this crosswalk, let us know. And, you know, not many people will comment because nobody in their right mind would cross there because it's so dangerous. So there's there's there's they're saying there's a lack of demand, but it's really just a lack of safety.

01:02:19:27 - 01:02:22:16
Ethan Tufts
There's plenty of people that would cross there. I would cross there if it was safe.

01:02:23:13 - 01:02:44:03
John Simmerman
So I'll give you a funny a joke slash analogy to to this, and then we'll of I'll turn this over to you for the last word. Sure. The joke that we use is like, you know, well, will should we be, you know, building this, you know, bike and pedestrian bridge across the river here? And it's like, well, you know, there's just no demand.

01:02:44:03 - 01:03:11:15
John Simmerman
We don't see anybody swimming across the river, you know, with their bikes. Mean it's like, exactly. You don't do this because there is a demonstrated demand. You do this because it's the right thing to do. We look at it from an equitable perspective. You look at it from a perspective, from the lens of of just the, you know, the environment, what we need to be doing is the right thing to do is it is the right thing to do.

01:03:11:21 - 01:03:44:29
Ethan Tufts
So yeah. And, and I do think that part of my job moving forward, I think is going to try to appeal to, towards the self-centered nature of people that feel like they need a car and feel like they deserve to have a car. They deserve to be able to get to where they want to go quickly is is to, you know, try to talk to those people about, you know, what, if you actually were in favor of bike lanes, if you were in favor of bus lanes and shifting people, shifting a small percentage of those people to other modes, it's going to be better for you.

01:03:44:29 - 01:03:49:15
Ethan Tufts
It's going to be a better experience, is going to be more pleasant. There's going to be less traffic, fewer people are going to die.

01:03:49:26 - 01:03:59:15
John Simmerman
Which is exactly the experience that we're talking about that's happening in the Netherlands. Yes. You know, I think related satisfaction level of motor vehicle drivers.

01:04:00:00 - 01:04:20:26
Ethan Tufts
So. Yes, and I and I do believe that we need to there needs to be a discussion with car owners. And that's what I'm. But what I think you're going to try to do is discussion with car owners, a discussion with people who, you know, car buyers, discussion with, you know, car enthusiasts about how can we make this experience that often sucks less sucky.

01:04:21:15 - 01:04:22:00
John Simmerman
You know?

01:04:22:24 - 01:04:27:18
Ethan Tufts
And yes, my my lovely vocabulary.

01:04:27:21 - 01:05:02:12
John Simmerman
No, I think it's great. I mean, it's it's it's the it's the same sort of approach that Jason Slaughter uses with the not just bikes channel, you know, just calls it out and says, nope, this, this sucks. This is not the way to go about, you know, creating a community. And you're absolutely right. A, being able to just have small little shifts in the number of people who are driving has a tremendous impact on the congestion levels and the and the gridlock conditions that can exist and can pop up in a moment's notice.

01:05:03:10 - 01:05:19:01
John Simmerman
And so it's not like it's not like you're saying to people, no, you can't drive. It's like, no, I mean, seriously, when we are supportive of mobility systems and choice in mobility options, it's better for everybody.

01:05:20:02 - 01:05:28:07
Ethan Tufts
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's that's a that's a much more eloquent way of saying that. I want to make things like less lucky.

01:05:29:00 - 01:05:41:07
John Simmerman
Ethan, thank you so very much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast, and thank you so much for doing what you're doing is incredibly important and please know, we're noticing it's powerful and keep it up.

01:05:42:00 - 01:05:44:26
Ethan Tufts
I appreciate you having me on and I enjoyed our talk.

01:05:45:09 - 01:06:05:01
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Ethan Tufts of Hallow Road and if you did, please give a thumbs up, leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. I just hit the subscription button down below and ring the notifications bell right next to it so you can select your notification preferences.

01:06:05:07 - 01:06:31:21
John Simmerman
We'll be back next week with another episode. So until then, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. Also sending out a very big thank you to all my amazing active towns ambassadors who are directly supporting my efforts through Patreon Buy Me a Coffee. The YouTube Super Chats and super thanks as well as buying things from the active town store and making donations to the nonprofit.

01:06:31:29 - 01:06:43:16
John Simmerman
Every little bit helps and is greatly appreciated. Thank you all so very much.