Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Artists are out there creating this art and talking to people as we do it, and we're having these discussions with people as we do it. So it is uncommon, though, in our world we're like, oh look, another asphalt art project. But in general, this is a very uncommon thing to come across still across the country and across the world even.

00:00:20:27 - 00:00:42:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so it's really important. Like the number one question is why are you doing this? And that can be a wonderful opener of dialog and we can respond, wow. Well, thank you for asking. We're creating this because somebody was was hit and killed in that crosswalk. And we need to rapidly make this a safer place to be. And maybe though we've had it before.

00:00:42:11 - 00:00:48:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Oh my God, I heard about that. Who was it? Why did it happen? It happened because people are skating.

00:00:48:16 - 00:01:07:26
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Chelsea Ritter-Soronen. And with Chalk Riot out of the Washington, DC area, we're going to be talking about what Chalk Riot does and how, as an artist, she got engaged in traffic calming. But before we do that, I just wanted to say thank you so much for tuning in.

00:01:07:26 - 00:01:27:14
John Simmerman
A really do appreciate it. And if you have been enjoying this content here on Active Towns, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Super easy to do. Just head on over to Active towns.org right down there. Click on the support tab at the top of the page. Several different options including becoming a Patreon supporter.

00:01:27:17 - 00:01:38:02
John Simmerman
Patrons do get early and have free access to all this video content. Okay, let's get right to it with Chelsea.

00:01:38:04 - 00:01:42:24
John Simmerman
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:42:27 - 00:01:45:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much.

00:01:45:14 - 00:02:06:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, you've got a big smile on your face because you've got you've got the world, you know, visiting you there in the DC area right now because it's it's the bike league, bike summit time. And the, the engaged you to do some, some stuff and we'll talk about that in just a little bit. But first let's have you, tell the audience about Chelsea.

00:02:06:04 - 00:02:08:10
John Simmerman
So who the heck is Chelsea?

00:02:08:12 - 00:02:42:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Definitely. I now live in Washington, DC, and I'm the owner and principal artist of a company called Chalk Riot, which is an all women mural production team that now specializes in traffic calming artwork. But we've always created artwork on the ground and started out doing chalk artwork. And in addition to Chalk Riot, I'm also serving as a consultant these days for a handful of cities, and they're arts and transit programing, which is really exciting.

00:02:42:21 - 00:02:49:05
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And, also have my own art practice outside of all that. So I stay very busy.

00:02:49:07 - 00:03:07:22
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it, and here's your website right here. We're going to dive into a little bit more about Chalk Riot and the types of things that you're doing, in that whole world of bringing some color to our streets and the traffic calming. But take us back to the beginning. I mean, how on earth did you end up here?

00:03:07:22 - 00:03:11:00
John Simmerman
What was that journey like? What's the origin story?

00:03:11:03 - 00:03:37:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Definitely. So 12 years ago, baby Chelsea was living in Saint Louis. And, before Mural Fever. Like right now, murals are so ubiquitous and just so abundant in so many cities across, across the United States. And I've had this new resurgence of popularity in the last decade. But 12, 15 years ago, that wasn't really the case in Saint Louis.

00:03:37:09 - 00:04:03:02
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so there are a lot of art. There were several of us artists that were interested in making more public art, because we saw the need for that in Saint Louis. But there weren't many opportunities to do this, to do so, especially for wall murals. And there was also a lot of red tape, because so many buildings in Saint Louis are historic, and they have this beautiful brick that nobody wants to, apply paint to, which is very understandable.

00:04:03:04 - 00:04:31:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
It's really important, brick. But it was very limiting for public artists. And so really, Chalk Riot was just muralist friends coming together and creating chalk for fun in between our shifts at restaurants and our various day jobs. And then through that, we found that there was a whole chalk art world of chalk art festivals and, that people were actually being paid to do this, which we hadn't even considered.

00:04:31:11 - 00:04:37:02
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And eventually people started asking us how much for that. And off we went.

00:04:37:05 - 00:05:00:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And we see some, imagery sort of, you know, rolling through here off to the side and, we see some chalk that's being done. Talk a little bit about that. The in the name Chalk Riot. And, some of it is chalk and some of it is, is clearly paint. Yeah. Take us back to the beginning of of how the name came about.

00:05:00:02 - 00:05:03:24
John Simmerman
And really, you know, leaning into the chalk side of things.

00:05:03:27 - 00:05:41:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Definitely. So Chalk Riot's name sake, it's inspired by the surprisingly radical history of chalk as a tool for social justice, resistance and movement. And so when we go back to the 18th century, murals that were creating these grandiose murals inside of basilicas and cathedrals that were reserved for really reserved for upper classes of society, would use their pigments from their paints and create recreate some of those images outside in the public square as a means to bring art to the people.

00:05:41:09 - 00:06:10:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And sometimes, I read not too long ago that this was a means of also teaching literacy to people that couldn't access basic education, and so that's where it starts, right? And then it moved forward to in the, late 18th, late 18th and early, forgive me, late 19th and early 20th centuries, suffragists were using chalk to, or to display advertisements for underground meetings, for organizing meetings.

00:06:10:24 - 00:06:44:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And, we actually have images of that. We have photo photography of that. Flash forward to the 1980s, and Keith Haring is using pieces of school board chalk in his pockets to create, these, epic, magnanimous, very important, arresting imagery, speaking out against, politics that were denying the Aids epidemic and, capitalism that was really harmful at the time during Reagan years and this was done in subway stations.

00:06:44:22 - 00:07:04:18
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so this is also an example of arts and transit. Was Keith Haring's chalk work. So, throughout the years, throughout the centuries, chalk has always been, the source of so many movements for social change and positive influences. And we loved that. So chalk write it us.

00:07:04:20 - 00:07:29:14
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it and and yeah, I it kind of makes sense too, especially with the sensitivities to the environment, of of choosing to use chalk versus choosing to use paint. You know, with, with chalk, of course, you could say, well, you know, you might not get in trouble as much because, well, a good rain, it's good to kind of wash away and with time etc..

00:07:29:16 - 00:07:46:02
John Simmerman
And, but then again, from the other side of that too, it's also for like a commission and like, you know, a group that is saying, you know, or a city, they're saying, you know, hey, we'd love to have you do something and you're like, okay, great. You know, do you want this to be in chalk, or do you want this to be a paint thing, you know, and what is it?

00:07:46:05 - 00:08:04:11
John Simmerman
And it's like, oh, yeah. No, that's a great point. You know, we'd love to to add a pop of color or send a message or celebrate this, this thing that's happening and, you know, the, the, the temporary ness of it could actually be, you know, a feature, not a bug.

00:08:04:14 - 00:08:29:00
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Absolutely. And there's a lot of peace within, with the process of it being ephemeral, ephemeral and washable, that we can express ourselves and let that go and let that into the world. And whatever impact it has is the impact that it has. And a lot of times we view chalk as ephemeral and temporary and paint as permanent.

00:08:29:00 - 00:08:39:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But my perspective of that is that paint is also temporary. Like all of these things are temporary, right. And it's important to keep that in mind.

00:08:39:11 - 00:09:06:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's a good point. And and we do think about that too, in, in terms of like in active mobility in, in the street safety world, we, we get the fact that that paint is actually, temporary in, in, in certain contexts, in certain situations. And so, you know, for instance, you know, like with creating bike lanes that are colored bike lanes, like in the Netherlands, it's, it's red.

00:09:06:00 - 00:09:25:05
John Simmerman
And so you get the red carpet treatment of, of having a red cycle path the entire way. Well, that, that pigment that's like a terracotta type of pigment is actually mixed in with the asphalt or in, in Austin we do that that same red type of, pigment mixed in with the concrete slurry. And so it is permanent.

00:09:25:05 - 00:09:47:25
John Simmerman
And so it's not just a paint that might, you know, fade or flicker off or, you know, or you know, good get bad with, you know, constant movement of, of the tires, especially with the interaction with the car, car and motor vehicle traffic. So, yeah. Good point. So yeah, let's so to take us even further back, what's your background?

00:09:47:25 - 00:09:59:10
John Simmerman
How did you you know, I mean it's I'm like, wait a minute. How does she, like even start thinking about okay, murals and this and what was your training.

00:09:59:12 - 00:10:21:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah. So my formal education in undergrad was actually in theater design for costumes. So I was an aspiring costume designer, and I was doing that in high school. I have, my grandparents were theater makers, and so I was into fashion design in high school. Like a lot of people are, and just learning how to express myself with clothing.

00:10:21:25 - 00:10:43:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And then started applying that, that interest to school plays in high school. And then I had a very passionate, very awesome art teacher that said, you know, you could pursue this professionally. And I was shocked by that and then ended up pursuing that. In college, I went to, the Conservatory of Theater Arts at Webster University in Saint Louis, which is how I ended up there.

00:10:43:17 - 00:11:14:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And, you know, after four years of really rigorous conservatory theater training, I wasn't as inspired to create costumes anymore and had been slowly moved towards, being attracted to scene painting and the very traditional craft of scene painting. And I learned that I about my senior year of college, I learned that I loved to paint big things, and I found liberation.

00:11:14:15 - 00:11:40:20
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And it felt like the complete opposite of being, like, hunched over on a sewing machine, like trying to pick out individual stitches. And, it was completely the opposite of that. And so I learned, wow. Like creating big things for for big feelings is really helpful as an artist. And so through that, I met some mentors that had been professional muralists for a long time and started started that path.

00:11:40:22 - 00:12:00:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah yeah. We we pulled up on screen here. Back to your website and you, we get some overviews of, of some of the images here and, you know, some of them, you know, have the, the murals, the beautiful images on the walls as well as the, murals on and and the images on the ground.

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:16:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. That's that's fascinating. So I can totally see that arc of like, okay, in theater and you're like, okay, we need this scene painted for this production that it, and it's like, now you're out in the world and you're like, oh, that's a nice canvas right up there.

00:12:16:25 - 00:12:43:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And it's all kind of like scene painting when you think of it, right? Like, you know, all the world's a stage. Theater is life. This is really important. Creative training because take these images on Elsworth Drive here in Silver Spring that we're looking at right now. You know, even under this Jim Blue mural which I just painted, alongside him at a mural festival in Texas last week, which is hilarious.

00:12:43:29 - 00:13:13:16
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But, you know, he had already set the scene with this mural. So then we played off of that color palette to enhance the scene by bringing that imagery and color and movement to the ground. And continuing that board thinking, you know, what is the backdrop for the activity and the conversations, that are playing out in the public square in this public arena.

00:13:13:16 - 00:13:24:23
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so to me, it's still very much the same skills. And now I just get to dive into the, more of the specifics and granular levels of transportation planning and such.

00:13:24:23 - 00:13:32:00
John Simmerman
But yeah. Yeah, well, the no were you in in Austin when you were in Texas?

00:13:32:03 - 00:13:36:00
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I was in Beaumont, Texas.

00:13:36:02 - 00:13:40:24
John Simmerman
Oh, wow. Beaumont came through with the mural Festival.

00:13:40:25 - 00:14:00:08
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
That's really incredible. It was really interesting. I learned, and these were for wall murals. So this was not a chalk, right? Project. But I did meet a lot of artists from Austin in addition to other places. And, learned all about, you know, Beaumont is oil country. And what is that is and then what is that like to live there?

00:14:00:08 - 00:14:01:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And it was really interesting.

00:14:01:21 - 00:14:25:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're, we're, we've, kind of delve a little bit deeper into the Ellsworth, installation here and some of the images, on the ground as well as, you know, getting a little bit from, you know, the, the overall setting here. So talk a little bit about that transition of yours. You're doing this, you kind of you're getting your groove.

00:14:25:11 - 00:14:55:01
John Simmerman
You're having you're putting some stuff down. When did that sort of like the gear shift and all of a sudden you start getting, you know, contacted by or commissioned by folks that are like, hey, you know, we've got this whole ass asphalt art thing that's happening, you know, Mike Leyden and the Bloomberg Philanthropies and all these these entities are like formalizing this as a thing, because we know that it helps with traffic calming.

00:14:55:01 - 00:15:04:22
John Simmerman
When did you start getting, you know, contacted by all of us over here in the active mobility world, who are like, hey, anything to, you know, try to slow the cars down.

00:15:04:24 - 00:15:33:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah, totally. I think my timing was very serendipitous for moving to DC, so I moved to DC in 2019 and then, this the traffic calming murals started to really gain traction in 2019, 2020. I think the first pilot that I did was in 2017 or 2018. Okay. And that was, curated and produced by my friend Tom Pipkin, my frequent collaborator.

00:15:33:27 - 00:15:59:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Collaborator, and we had I had heard about it in the periphery, like, kind of like, oh, that's cool in the public art world that that thing is happening. But once I moved to DC, actually, I felt very aligned with these opportunities because, having worked on the ground all over the world and chalk, you do get a sense of the world from the ground up.

00:15:59:12 - 00:16:32:03
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
You get a sense of, whoa, these cars are speeding or wow, people don't really look off of their phones when they're walking or, you know, dang, this crosswalk is so dangerous. And and that's something that I was always acutely aware of doing the work that we were doing. But it was in 20 I believe, in early 2021, that the Southwest Business Improvement District here in DC held a call for artists, to do a curb, a set of curb extension murals.

00:16:32:03 - 00:16:49:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And that was the first one that I applied to and said, yeah, chalk, right, makes work on the ground. And I am definitely aware that traffic here is mutual, that that we need to be safer. And if you're telling me that this is going to help keep people safe, then let's go. So that was the very first one.

00:16:49:09 - 00:16:52:29
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So it's been about 4 or 5 years now that we've been fully immersed.

00:16:53:02 - 00:16:59:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is a Chinatown, installation. Chinatown. In which city?

00:16:59:20 - 00:17:01:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
In Washington, DC, in DC.

00:17:01:15 - 00:17:23:07
John Simmerman
Okay, fantastic. And so, you know, and to your point, and we'll try to describe this for the listening only audience, because we do have the listening only audience as well, tuning in. So this is a, an installation that has a lot of our typical features in traffic calming. We've got the, we've got, you know, the bulb out here.

00:17:23:07 - 00:17:46:10
John Simmerman
We have a daylighting, approach to it, and then we have a tighter turning radius. That's sort of my narration of the features from an active mobility and a safer street. Perspective. I'll let you take over the narration in terms of how the application and what you all were doing and how you were commissioned to do this.

00:17:46:13 - 00:18:09:26
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Sure. So this Chinatown Park project is massive, and we call it that, because there's a small park right in the middle of this intersection that is called Chinatown Park. It's in the heart of Chinatown in DC, and this is a series of 22 curb extensions and one new pedestrian plaza that was installed that, is about 400ft long.

00:18:09:26 - 00:18:39:00
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
If I'm not, 300ft long and one lanes width of traffic. And this was just one series of installations as part of a pedestrian safety and experience study, that was being facilitated by, downtown DC and Cool Design. And the other set was just one block up outside of the National Portrait Gallery. That honored artist Jean Davis.

00:18:39:01 - 00:19:09:16
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And that was and that was a different artist and, installation team. So it's not pictured here, but, so it was this massive endeavor to really see how can because it's a very, very, severely dangerous area for pedestrians especially. There are many elderly residents, many unhoused residents in this area that need extra support and extra infrastructure to really ensure their safety.

00:19:09:18 - 00:19:34:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so you can see here in these photos, I mean, these curb extension build outs were massive, that it shortened that crosswalk from probably 20ft to like eight 25ft to probably eight feet, that crossing, and that was one of the most dangerous of all the road with all the cars there on the left, across the top of this photo is busy all of the time.

00:19:34:15 - 00:19:48:24
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so people are speeding and then quickly turn onto these roads. And so and this image here honors the dragon boat racing in DC, which is connected to the, Chinatown study. The Chinese I love it.

00:19:48:27 - 00:19:53:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And here's a nice overview from up above.

00:19:53:09 - 00:20:06:06
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah. And this is a great example of combining art and infrastructure with a bikeshare station, so that you can see if you zoom in, you can see all the bike share stations on there. And so that was really fun to to combine those things.

00:20:06:09 - 00:20:25:10
John Simmerman
Yes. Look at that. That is a nice little application of the bikeshare station as well. Yeah. That is fantastic. Oh and I think I'm going to go back to this one here and zoom out just a bit so we can get the whole feel of that. That's nice.

00:20:25:13 - 00:20:30:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah. You can really see with these overheads how much shorter these crosswalks became.

00:20:31:04 - 00:20:53:01
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. So here you are. You're this this artist. You're doing murals. You're starting to do stuff on the ground. I'm hearing you speak and you've got the lingo down. You you know, you, you know the traffic calming stuff. You know you've absorbed this. I mean, it's not rocket science, you know, it's not that hard to get it.

00:20:53:06 - 00:21:15:22
John Simmerman
Especially when you are somebody who's out there, especially if you're a pedestrian, especially if you're somebody who gets around by bike because then you feel it and you notice the difference when you're in a car, it's as a driver. It's not as intuitive that this stuff really makes a big difference in terms of safety, quality of life.

00:21:15:22 - 00:21:18:28
John Simmerman
For those people who are getting around by walking and biking.

00:21:19:00 - 00:21:47:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And with so while, you know, we witnessed this, this dramatic rise in distracted driving so much when we're working outside on really we recently did a big project in Rockville, Maryland, along a really major stretch, and some of these sections were pretty precarious. So our team divide it up into it into a flagging team in addition to painters that we could watch out for each other.

00:21:47:14 - 00:22:03:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And I was serving as one of those flaggers one day, and I was noticing just how many people have these giant computer screens now at the front of their vehicle. I'm driving a 2006 car right now for our work truck, so I don't have anything remotely close to.

00:22:03:15 - 00:22:05:29
John Simmerman
That to 2005 for us. Yes.

00:22:06:01 - 00:22:52:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Okay. But but it really is like you can I you can see people's attention diverted to their screens the entire time. And, and so I do question sometimes are they seeing the artwork? But if the artwork in tandem with the infrastructure is forcing the is forcing them to slow down, that's the combination that can be successful. And and I hope that and you know, creating designs for these curb extensions is a funny balance between what will be visually arresting for the driver who is not going to spend more than five seconds looking at it unless they happen to catch it at a stop sign or a stoplight.

00:22:52:24 - 00:23:21:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But they're not really going to notice, like the details of of the artwork at all. But for the pedestrians, cyclists, micromobility users, they're the ones that are going to see, like if there's storytelling, if there's elements that connect them to that sense of place. And so finding that balance is, has become an interesting creative challenge for because it's so different and specific per project.

00:23:21:14 - 00:23:46:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm going to pull up your post from just like three hours ago on LinkedIn. So, so that's how we know each other is from LinkedIn. You hit my radar screen. Is somebody really, really cool? And I need to have you on the the podcast. So here we are. But yeah, we we sort of teased it earlier.

00:23:46:09 - 00:23:52:29
John Simmerman
The National Bike Summit is happening in Washington, DC this week. Tell us a little bit about so what happened?

00:23:53:02 - 00:24:17:05
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
It was a wonderful session. So I was invited by Anna Kelso, who works in arts and transit in Fort Collins, Colorado. And and Karen from the from the league also extended the invitation and thought it was a great idea for us to team up and lead a session about asphalt art. And it was, we had 25 spots available and 25 spots were filled.

00:24:17:05 - 00:24:41:07
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
We had a packed house. And it was so energizing that, it was so energizing to me and connect with people in all different sorts of positions, whether in local government, in state level government and at advocacy orgs or just fairs independent. Like, we had one person there who was just a graphic designer that was interested in what is this arts and transit thing.

00:24:41:07 - 00:25:04:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so there was a really good mix of folks that were there to learn and had so many great questions about process and application, and right down to technical questions about how to pressure wash the pavement or what kind of materials they should use. So we covered as much as we possibly could in two hours. And we had a nice slideshow that Anna put together in the first hour.

00:25:04:12 - 00:25:16:14
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And then we walked right over, just a couple blocks down to actually examine all the artwork from that pedestrian safety experience study that we that we created, all the all that artwork for and talked about it.

00:25:16:16 - 00:25:28:16
John Simmerman
That's really cool too, because since so many of your installations are right there in that city, and then the whole world is coming together, you know, for this conference, and you're able to like, say, okay, let's go look at some of this stuff.

00:25:28:18 - 00:25:31:17
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah, just two blocks away. Let's go to field trip.

00:25:31:19 - 00:25:58:00
John Simmerman
Let's go, let's go. Well, I'm going to I'm going to take us on a virtual, field trip and feature, a little bit of Anna Kelso's, project that she did in, in Fort Collins because I was able to film it, this summer. And while I'm doing that, it'll play in the background. What I'd like you to do is address some of those, probably maybe the top 2 or 3 really good questions that you got from that.

00:25:58:03 - 00:26:18:20
John Simmerman
From that session. And, you know, whether it's technical stuff or whatever, but anything that you think that the audience here would really dig hearing about, or you think they might be curious about, about doing these types of installations. So let me press play on this and, and we'll get a little snapshot of, her work that she did.

00:26:18:22 - 00:26:45:28
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Love the video. I've only seen still images. So the video is exciting to see. I think, you know, our morning discussion really came down to discussing, identification of goals for these projects, because, asphalt art can seem. Oh, that seems really fun. We should do that because it looks cool, you know, and that is perfectly acceptable.

00:26:45:28 - 00:27:10:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
That is, you know, to have art, simply to install art simply for the sake of making your neighborhood more colorful and brightening up in the area and introducing joy to people's day is is a perfectly fine reason to create asphalt art. In addition, there are all these other potential reasons. You want to, use an asphalt art to send a message, right?

00:27:10:15 - 00:27:37:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Like we did that was like in D.C. the district did that for Black Lives Matter Plaza. That was an act of protest. That was an act of freedom of speech. That wasn't for transportation safety, but it was in the name of safety for black people across the country. And so that's one example. Then we have, curb extension murals that are they temporary because it's going to be built out by physical infrastructure in a year.

00:27:37:27 - 00:28:06:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so you only need the paint to last about a year. Or do you want that paint to last five years and be regularly maintained by the city annually? Every two years, what have you? And so it really so many of our choices when it comes down to artist selection, design priorities, longevity, budget, materials we're going to use all come down to what is the goal of your project.

00:28:06:24 - 00:28:18:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so I think that that if it's anything that I could stress from today's discussion and also just about this, about this really niche world of pavement art in general, it would be that.

00:28:18:24 - 00:28:31:10
John Simmerman
I love it. That's great. What is the most common question that you get would not necessarily from today or this week, but just in general about these types of applications.

00:28:31:13 - 00:29:09:23
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So I think one of the most powerful things, one of the most powerful elements and positive elements of asphalt art is that the number one question is, why are you painting on the ground? And that seems simplistic, but that's exactly what we need in the advocacy world, because artists can be our link, especially for planners who are working in offices and D.O.T. folks that are looking at maps and data but maybe are not on the ground so much like artists are out there creating this art and talking to people as we do it.

00:29:09:23 - 00:29:30:00
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And we're having these discussions with people as we do it. So it is uncommon, though, in our world we're like, oh, look, another asphalt art project. But in general, this is a very uncommon thing to come across. Still across the country and across the world even. And so it's really important. Like the number one question is why are you doing this?

00:29:30:00 - 00:29:50:05
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And that can be a wonderful opener of dialog. And we can respond. Well, how? Well thank you for asking. We're creating this because somebody was was hit and killed in that crosswalk. And we need to rapidly make this a safer place to be. And maybe though we've had it before. Oh my God, I heard about that. Who was it?

00:29:50:10 - 00:30:20:10
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Why did it happen? It happened because people are speeding on this road and it's really scary, right? So it's a wonderful opener. And I think it's the number one reason why I want and why I'm pursuing grad school studies too, is I want to advocate. I am advocating for more cities and and civic organizations, advocacy orgs, to include public artists in the entire planning process and not just at the end as like the pretty bow on top in the last 5% of a project.

00:30:20:12 - 00:30:31:01
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But we can be useful and contribute ideas and insight from the beginning. And the more that we can do that, the safer all of our streets will be. I really passionately believe that.

00:30:31:04 - 00:30:49:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, and we're lingering on this particular image here where we see, you know, the the people coming out and with signs and, and, and banners, you know, calling for and demanding safer streets. So this is, it goes hand in hand with exactly what you were just talking about there.

00:30:49:21 - 00:31:18:10
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And this is an image from, there is a young girl here in DC and in the Brookland neighborhood of DC. Allison Hart, who was struck and killed in a crosswalk almost right outside of her home where she should have been safe. And it really struck a chord with the entire accessibility community in DC. And just also anybody that's ever loved a child, it really just was heartbreaking for everyone.

00:31:18:10 - 00:31:45:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And, the hearts. Her parents have become fierce advocates also for safer streets in DC and also just around the nation. And they've become very impactful organizers in that sense. And so this was and, street art action that we hope that we collaborated on to create to bring love and memorial and a sense of a sense of memorial and a sense of radical joy.

00:31:45:21 - 00:31:53:06
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I would say to the exact site where this happened, and it was a really powerful day. Yeah.

00:31:53:09 - 00:32:20:10
John Simmerman
I know that, in, in Fort Collins, and, and also Courtney Geary, who we saw a little bit of a clip in that video clip that I had there. They like to engage the community whenever possible to. Is that part of your M.O. as well, or do you have that flexibility of also engaging some of the community members if they want to, get get a little dirty and get some paint on them?

00:32:20:12 - 00:32:52:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah, absolutely. Yet again, it always depends on the goals of the project. Sometimes it is just a matter of like, hey, we need just like any transportation project, occasionally it will be, hey, we need this done in a month. Can you put out some color and we can do that? But I would say 90% of the time we're creating these designs with such intention that are rooted in either the history of that community or stories within that community, and doing community outreach to the best that our capacity allows for each project.

00:32:52:14 - 00:33:13:19
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And something that has been consistent in our practice over the last three years is that for the larger projects where we're where we need people outside of our immediate crew and we need more hands, we do a hiring call for artists to be part of that project and prioritize artists that have an immediate connection to that exact site.

00:33:13:22 - 00:33:23:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And if they've never painted a mural on the ground, it's okay. We'll train them right up and, create connections and and friendships in the process.

00:33:23:12 - 00:33:27:21
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it so much fun. I this is.

00:33:27:27 - 00:33:30:02
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
This is this other ten year party that was.

00:33:30:02 - 00:33:44:25
John Simmerman
Ten years ago. That is that is great. So what have you been most surprised with? In in taking this step into the world of transportation safety?

00:33:44:27 - 00:33:52:20
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah, that's a great question.

00:33:52:23 - 00:34:31:24
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I think it actually has surprised me as kind of an outsider being folded into this world. How welcoming and, support of people are of creative infrastructure ideas. It's one of the reasons why I'm excited about being a part of this industry and community is that we know that these safety issues are omnipresent in our world, and that they always need constant attention and care and help.

00:34:31:26 - 00:34:40:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And it's really it's really satisfying to see how welcoming people are of that.

00:34:40:14 - 00:34:41:10
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:34:41:12 - 00:34:42:26
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah.

00:34:42:28 - 00:34:49:24
John Simmerman
That's so cool. Yeah. Show you. I want to show you a fun little video that I shot, in Edinburgh.

00:34:49:26 - 00:34:51:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Scotland. Oh, cool.

00:34:51:15 - 00:35:30:00
John Simmerman
And so this is the Collington tunnel. And, this is, this is right there in Edinburgh. Just just outside. It's this is actually an old, rail line that has been converted into a trail. And they just have this beautiful, beautiful, you know, mural through the tunnel. And the story behind this is that this is just an old, dilapidated, tunnel that the, you know, just was sitting around, you know, dark and dingy and and there was all this, like, mystery and, and mythology of, oh, don't go in there after dark.

00:35:30:00 - 00:35:52:07
John Simmerman
It's really scary in there. And so, yeah, this, this, this one, gentleman, I'll give a quick, snapshot of, of him so you can, we can have a face to this. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, I've got this this crazy idea. It's a daft idea. We're going to actually make it beautiful. And so he did.

00:35:52:09 - 00:36:16:06
John Simmerman
And, and it was so much fun. And one of the neat things that they did about that was engaging, the community. And so, yes, they had the professional artists that were very much a part of, of this, but they wanted to make sure that they they were able to get as many volunteer hours from the community members of being able to, to contributed, to it.

00:36:16:06 - 00:36:37:24
John Simmerman
And, and so that's one of the things that they're, he's, he's talking about is how they engage the communities. And, and you know, some of our like, little, little funny things like a, you know, there was like a little footprint up there, which is a small child with like a water dip. My, my, my wife put in the painting and put it right up there.

00:36:37:24 - 00:37:05:00
John Simmerman
And so why not? It's it's just one of those, those interesting things. And one of the reasons why he wanted to do that is he wanted there to be like this sense of pride and sense of ownership by the community members. And because that took place there, there was really that that agency, that sense of ownership, you know, in this as a beautiful thing.

00:37:05:03 - 00:37:31:04
John Simmerman
And, and they basically had, you know, very little troubles with any kind of vandalism or problems with it and tagging and those sorts of things, which isn't necessarily the case, through, throughout the rest of the city. And so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that in terms of like being able to, you know, have that as, like one of the hacks of, like, really getting that buy in from community members.

00:37:31:04 - 00:37:38:27
John Simmerman
So they feel like this is something that they are a part of versus something that's being done for them.

00:37:39:00 - 00:38:08:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
That's this has so many layers to it because I think from general public art world, I can confidently say that often when murals are vandalized, it's coming from a place of fear of what those murals will lead to, which is raising rents, which is, you know, grocery stores where items are on a wall. And that's, that's where a lot of that comes from.

00:38:08:12 - 00:38:13:29
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
It is like frustration and a fear of rapid changes happening in the neighborhood.

00:38:14:02 - 00:38:25:05
John Simmerman
Like literally feeling like, literally feeling like this is gentrifying our area. And maybe, you know, causing displacement, the fear of displacement. Yeah.

00:38:25:07 - 00:38:53:25
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Absolutely. And artists are often used to justify these actions. Right. Or to put a little, as an attempt to kind of put a Band-Aid on these things, to make themselves look cooler or more accepted by the community. And it's, that is a constant struggle in the public arts community. And I think, one of the things I well, before I sidetrack.

00:38:53:28 - 00:39:04:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I think what's most important is that when we're.

00:39:04:14 - 00:39:14:25
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Like I said, this has so many layers. So my mind keeps going to like, so many different places.

00:39:14:28 - 00:39:17:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Offers us that that answer your question.

00:39:17:24 - 00:39:45:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. I mean, I love I didn't expect that. And so I think that that's wonderful. And, and it's also, a response that is, clearly indicative of the urban nature here in which, you know, you're, you're, you're operating in and where there is those tensions there, you know, that that's part of the reality of many of these places.

00:39:45:18 - 00:40:13:20
John Simmerman
And you're absolutely right. That's one of the things that ends up happening is, applying not just from a safety perspective of, okay, let's, let's add some color, let's make this beautiful from, and we're doing very strategic implementations for the purpose of making the streets safer. But to your point, sometimes it's like, okay, let's throw some art in here and let's get some color in here and let's make this fun and less intimidating.

00:40:13:23 - 00:40:35:14
John Simmerman
But at the same time that I that's the reason why I wanted to ask that is how can we better engage the, you know, the public to be a part of the process? Going back to Fort Collins and some of the work that Ana and her team have been doing, there's one it's not on that particular, actually, as in earlier in the video that I shot.

00:40:35:14 - 00:41:00:20
John Simmerman
And I'll be sure to include the link in the show notes for this video, to honors, artwork and all that. But one of the installations was by a school, and they engaged the kids to be a part of painting that and the the logic for engaging them was also because it helped instruct the parents and the other adults in the community as to why it was so necessary to do this.

00:41:00:22 - 00:41:23:19
John Simmerman
And then the of course, then everybody was super, super proud because, oh yeah, my kid painted that flower right there, you know? And so they they're like very when because inevitably what ends up happening with these types of, of projects is that it doesn't take long for people to start complaining and saying, you're making it harder for me to drive.

00:41:23:21 - 00:41:44:06
John Simmerman
You're making you're making me slow down. And so that's when the the haters come out and they're, you know, they're not shy about reaching out to City council and saying, what are you doing? Why is this junk? Why are these plastic sticks out there? And why is it harder for me to turn? And yeah, you're slapping some paint down there, but it's just annoying me.

00:41:44:09 - 00:42:05:15
John Simmerman
And so what I love about that strategy of engaging the community to be a part of the solution is that, you know, that there is that sort of, additional layer of agency, an additional layer of, of commitment to it, investment in making the streets safer and more beautiful at the same time.

00:42:05:17 - 00:42:31:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah. And I think a lot of this comes down to how we define community engagement, too, because a lot of like leaving a bunch of door hangers with notices and information and, and checking off your community engagement box is is not is not sufficient for if you're going to be creating a large visual installation with a lot of visual and physical impact.

00:42:31:29 - 00:42:57:15
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So really getting together with a team and defining what is community engagement, I'm a really big fan of. We've been talking a lot about this in school, and I know a lot of, cities are starting to make these commitments, especially around complete streets programing where they hire cities will hire residents to be consultants, basically.

00:42:57:15 - 00:43:19:25
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So instead of expecting because the volunteer labor that we expect of residents to participate in what we call community engagement, can be very excessive because everybody's busy, especially these days, right? Like everybody's busy. Everybody has kids to take care of. Everybody needs to make dinner. You need to go to soccer practice. You need to, like, work your second job at night.

00:43:19:25 - 00:43:50:12
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I mean, to expect people to show up to the meetings is a very high expectation. That is not realistic for many, many people. And so if you can talk with some residents and compensate them fairly for that time, I think that that's a really great step versus, hiring a consulting firm or maybe in addition to hiring a consulting firm to get those answers for you.

00:43:50:14 - 00:44:12:23
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I think is is a really great strategy. I also thought of this story. We were painting a mural in DuPont Circle where, if you're in DC and a couple residents had come by one day and like, hey, could our could our kids help paint? Because we know how dangerous this intersection is and we really want them to be a part of this.

00:44:12:26 - 00:44:33:07
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But this was not the type of installation that could welcome anyone that was not an adult. Right into the middle of the intersection to paint safely. We didn't feel comfortable with that, nor did we plan on that for the installation process itself. And the next day and we, you know, told them, we expressed our regrets and said, so sorry, but it's great to connect with you here.

00:44:33:07 - 00:44:56:18
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And, can you share your stories about, why you feel this is unsafe and such? So, so positive connection. But then we came out the next day and they had like, hand printed in their own paint, a bunch of handprints on the curb. And we kind of love that. Like, we're like, go of create your own art, you know, like phasing.

00:44:56:25 - 00:45:21:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so I think, I go back to your comment about ownership and ownership is a really powerful word, especially when we are using it in reference to community engagement. But, I think of that family and because they felt emotionally connected to the reason for this being installed, they wanted to feel that sense of ownership that they were contributing to the project.

00:45:21:11 - 00:45:25:10
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And I loved their solution, and I was happy to see that the next day.

00:45:25:13 - 00:45:46:25
John Simmerman
That's fantastic. So we see, you know, hire us, button here, talk a little bit about, you know, the typical, who hires you. I mean, is it literally, you know, you click on this and boom, you put your information in and off it goes. Who's who's typically, you know, hiring chalk, right?

00:45:46:27 - 00:46:11:07
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Yeah. These days. So for traffic, for traffic calming stuff, it's usually a city, or a county or a parks and rec department. If we're creating things that are connected to the parks, we also apply to a lot of, cfas, which are calls for artists where these are, calls that the city has is asking for proposals.

00:46:11:07 - 00:46:44:18
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And then we're in a competition pool for those proposals. For outside of traffic calming. We're lucky here in D.C. to have access to so many, notable institutions as regular clients. So, namely the Smithsonian, the Smithsonian institutions, the Kennedy Center. We have lots of corporations headquartered here that we adore and their campuses for, we also get to work with a lot of NGOs that are working on impactful social campaigns.

00:46:44:18 - 00:47:08:27
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So, for instance, this week, after this interview, I'm heading over to the studio to work on some touch ups for a, for a piece in partnership with Greenpeace International that, is that asked us to create some work in solidarity with their commercial fishers, in Southeast Asia that are fighting for better labor, for stronger labor rights.

00:47:09:00 - 00:47:28:00
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So really wide range of, of activity. But that's what keeps it really interesting. And that's what keeps us afloat and thriving. And, keeps our team always learning new skills and having, surprising conversations.

00:47:28:03 - 00:47:36:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. So anything that we haven't talked about that you want to make sure to leave the audience with,

00:47:36:07 - 00:48:10:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
I think. I would love to say that I would love to encourage people to not be intimidated by not knowing how to create asphalt art. It's very approachable, it seems. It can seem overwhelming because there's permits and there's traffic plan sometimes, and there's letters of recommendation from your council people, and you might have to go to some council meetings and you might have to, talk to vendors and get quotes.

00:48:10:22 - 00:48:38:21
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
It seems like a lot to carry, but thankfully we live in a, in an industry right now where there's lots of wonderful resources for this. So, you know, don't hesitate to reach out to organizations that are doing this work actively. We get questions all the time at Chalk Riot that we're happy to answer. So that you can, advocate for traffic calming infrastructure and artwork in your own neighborhood.

00:48:38:21 - 00:48:46:23
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So don't be intimidated by what seems like a complex process, because there's always a way everything is figure out of all.

00:48:46:25 - 00:48:56:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are most of your installations right there in the DC area, or are you able to, do projects, you know, pretty much all around.

00:48:56:26 - 00:49:22:24
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Most of them are in the DMV. Ever since the pandemic, we were traveling all over the world until Covid. And then that made us shift our business strategy entirely. And now, we are we are pretty local and regional. Yeah, yeah. And I would also say, another point that I would love to stress is that we all need to view the ground itself.

00:49:22:24 - 00:49:53:28
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
So if you imagine the ground without the delineate of this is the sidewalk, this is the curb, this is the road, this is the crosswalk. Envision all of that ground as one common place that we all share. I compare it to the sky. I compare it to waterways. It connects all of us. And sometimes it's easy to get wrapped up in, the borders of where the county line is and where the city line is and where these property lines are, which are important in process and planning processes.

00:49:54:00 - 00:50:21:09
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
But we need to make sure that that doesn't stop us from viewing this ground that we all share as an opportunity to connect with our neighbors and with each other in a world that in a country that wants to stress division right now. And so we need to be this ground, this ground beneath our feet as as nothing but opportunity to connect with each other.

00:50:21:11 - 00:50:47:22
John Simmerman
I love that, I love that, I brought us back to this particular image, to, to to ask you this. One of the things that I talk about a lot on the Active Towns Channel is this this process of using lighter, quicker, cheaper interim materials to, to get things down on the ground, to redefine the angles and the, and the turning radii and all these types of things, to try to make streets safer.

00:50:47:22 - 00:51:21:28
John Simmerman
And that's exactly what these types of installations are doing, or adding some color to it. But I also talk about the fact that at some point in time, we might even have the opportunity to do pave and and, and literally destroy your beautiful art, but at the same time, do pave and maybe bring some plant some trees and bring some natural, zero scaping into these environments and, and and make these, you know, replace these delineated with, with much more robust materials that are authentically safer.

00:51:22:00 - 00:51:51:26
John Simmerman
I have a couple of these installations, you know, within easy walking distance from our house here in Austin, where it started out as very, very, you know, cheap and easy and quick materials and then eventually went to the bolt down flex posts. And then when the money was available, it it turned into a combination of concrete and rain garden installations and, and you know, it's like that next step to become permanent infrastructure.

00:51:51:28 - 00:52:17:16
John Simmerman
Have you have that opportunity to see any of your art go through that sort of of stages of of going from, you know, a sea of asphalt to, you know, a beautiful installation like this, to that next stage of now it becomes permanent infrastructure. And hopefully there was an opportunity to make it a real park, an authentic little parklet or, or maybe some green spaces.

00:52:17:19 - 00:52:38:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Not yet, but I look forward to that day. And I think what's so interesting is that when we do, community outreach, the number one thing that people usually want are images of nature. And so like we and so that's why a lot of our imagery is nature based and flora and fauna, because that's what people ask for.

00:52:38:22 - 00:53:04:20
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And so people are already craving this. And and I think that that's a really powerful thing to pay attention to. And, I hope, I hope to see that day and I hope that when that happens, that we're still thinking about, okay, so we don't have the opportunity to hire artists for pavement art necessarily, but how could we decorate these planters with mosaics?

00:53:04:20 - 00:53:14:22
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
And how could we stamp words into the concrete? And how can we sculpt something out of this brick? So there's always opportunities to engage artists in that process.

00:53:14:24 - 00:53:19:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it, I love it, Chelsea, this has been so much fun.

00:53:19:20 - 00:53:22:26
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Thank you so.

00:53:22:28 - 00:53:36:03
John Simmerman
Again, you can find out all about Chalk Riot at Chalk riot.com or Chalk Riot Art Deco. Com Chelsea, thank you so very much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:53:36:05 - 00:53:38:11
Chelsea Ritter-Soronen
Thank you so much for having me.

00:53:38:13 - 00:53:52:28
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode, Chelsea. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribed to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

00:53:53:03 - 00:54:13:00
John Simmerman
And again, if you are enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Super easy to do. Just navigate over to active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page. Several different options out there, including making a donation to the nonprofit. You can leave a tip right here on YouTube right down below.

00:54:13:06 - 00:54:39:07
John Simmerman
As well as becoming a Patreon supporter of patrons to get early and ad free access to all of the video content. So that's a nice extra bonus. Thank you all so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again, just want to send a huge thank you to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting your channel financially via YouTube memberships YouTube super thanks.

00:54:39:10 - 00:54:48:10
John Simmerman
As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and joining my Patreon, every little bit adds up and is very much appreciated. Thank you all so much!