Transcript from the video version of this episode - Please note that this text has not been proofed

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:28
Gil Penalosa
We need to really do our cities differently, that people should be able to have convenience stores and coffee shops and all of these and public transit within walking distance. So that is also something that that we learn when we have those car free days. And it is really important because it is showing all of this within people said.

00:00:21:17 - 00:00:45:20
Gil Penalosa
Same thing with the open streets. People see what it is. And I love the fact that all of the changes that Mary Doyle was doing, including the 15 minute city and all of this is showing that is doable is the model, this transformation of streets around the world is not a technical issue, is not a financial issue. It's a political issue.

00:00:46:00 - 00:01:07:21
Gil Penalosa
It's a political is very inexpensive. When when an elected official say that they don't have the money, these people, they don't want to do it, because at the same time they are wasting money in a lot of flyovers. I mean, all the things for cars when with a fraction of that budget, they could do everything to improve the streets for people walking, cycling or using public transit.

00:01:08:17 - 00:01:32:00
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone welcome to the Active Towns channel. I'm John Simmerman and that is the one and only Gil Penalosa. He was the founder and chair of 880 cities ambassador for World Urban Parks and president of Gil Penalosa and Associates, a consulting firm. We talk a little bit about the early days in Bogota, Colombia, when Ciclovia evolved into a worldwide phenomena.

00:01:32:08 - 00:01:59:06
John Simmerman
And then we talk a little bit more about life in Toronto and his recent run for mayor up in Toronto and the necessity, the urgency we have to transform our cities into places for people. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Gil and the Gil. It's a pleasure to have you on the Active Towns podcast. Welcome.

00:01:59:06 - 00:02:00:27
Gil Penalosa
Thank you very much for having me.

00:02:01:07 - 00:02:14:22
John Simmerman
Yes, absolutely. I've been dying to do this for some time now and we do have an international audience, and so there might be a couple of people who don't really know who you are. Let me just give you the floor and give you an opportunity to introduce yourself.

00:02:16:17 - 00:02:52:15
Gil Penalosa
Well, I'm I'm Gil Penalosa. I'm originally from Bogota, Colombia. Before immigrating to Canada, I worked in the public sector and in the private and an NGO in the public sector. I led the construction of over 200 parks, also of taking small program called Ciclovia that is, Open Streets that was dying with two km a few miles and we increased it to 121 kilometers, about 75 miles an hour every Sunday on holiday.

00:02:53:02 - 00:03:20:14
Gil Penalosa
It opens to people closest to pass and we get over a million people. I've been in Canada now for 23 years. I created 80 cities, a nonprofit about 70 years ago. It has a simple bike. Powerful concept is what if everything we did in our cities had to be great? So I'm eight year old and for an 80, not 8 to 88 and 80 as an indicator, then he will be good for everybody from fewer to over 100.

00:03:21:06 - 00:03:29:09
Gil Penalosa
And also I've been doing a lot of international work. I have worked in over 350 cities in all continents.

00:03:30:00 - 00:04:01:17
John Simmerman
I love it. I love it. That's fantastic. And you and I have met before. You may not remember it because it was a rather interesting opportunity for us to meet. We were both up in Pittsburgh at the the Walk Bike Places conference up there, and you had just finished giving an amazing keynote presentation, rousing applause. And then the fire alarm went off.

00:04:03:06 - 00:04:13:07
Gil Penalosa
Immediately as soon as it finished. Okay, Now, people. And that was the closing keynote of the event. You were the what now? But it was just after I finished.

00:04:14:18 - 00:04:37:17
John Simmerman
You were the closing keynote and we were sure because there was an opportunity for for Q&A or anything else. We literally it, it was the fire alarm and we all had to exit. And so you and I were standing out on the sidewalk just kind of hanging around, talking and wondering, are they going to call us back in or not?

00:04:37:17 - 00:05:06:15
John Simmerman
And I think I made something a comment to you, something to the effect of that you brought down the house and you were you were on fire. You were too hot for the audience. Thank you. So that's one of the key things that I think is is something that is really distinguished about you as an advocate and as somebody who is a change maker, is that you have been giving keynote presentations.

00:05:07:18 - 00:05:22:02
John Simmerman
Gosh, it must be well over a decade, maybe two decades. Now, talk a little bit about that, because, I mean, they really are inspiring presentations and keynotes. Were you trained as as a presenter?

00:05:23:04 - 00:05:51:14
Gil Penalosa
Well, I do. I try to of become as good as possible. I've I've been I'm a certified by the USDA American Professional Speakers Association because basically I want to be able to deliver as well as possible. And once you get on that stage and you get a 100 or 1000, 10,000 people, how to get them not only excited about how to get them to understand.

00:05:51:22 - 00:06:20:10
Gil Penalosa
So mixing the awards and the tone and the images and the photos and also like many people that go to the conference conferences, they are already on board, but they many of them are almost giving up. They've been hearing themselves against their work too much. And so how to recharge the batteries, how to give them energy, how to show them examples from all over the world that the transformation is a door.

00:06:20:23 - 00:07:06:20
Gil Penalosa
Also that we are in the middle of a huge crisis now we are coping. So how are we going to see this post-COVID? Are we going to go back to 2019 or are we going to race it differently? And we've got this gigantic climate change in front of us and and we are still not changing it. And also so somehow, yes, I take it very seriously that delivering the keynote and parallel to that and we're leading workshops and one on one talks and whether it's or people that are on board or for people that are not how to find the proper arguments, how to and how to give the people tools so that when they

00:07:06:20 - 00:07:09:11
Gil Penalosa
go and advocate, they will be more successful.

00:07:10:06 - 00:07:39:18
John Simmerman
I love that too. Is in your finding way to connect many with many different people across many different sectors of life. And obviously when we're at a conference, it's a little bit of a self-selecting population. It's, you know, we're all kind of drinking from the waters and and all of that. But you've you've also been participer dating over the many years in more high tech types of platforms and everything.

00:07:39:24 - 00:08:06:02
John Simmerman
And I'm going to pull up a video of the much younger you here and this is an old street films that is is kind of looking oh wait a minute who's the young guy? And so this was a wonderful video that you, you know, were were starring in, I think Clarence DICKERSON and some of his his groups from street films, you know, put this together.

00:08:06:02 - 00:08:26:11
John Simmerman
They went down and looked at Eklavya tell a little bit of the story of of Eklavya and why that has been so profound in cities around the globe, around the world, because it really did change things, because it helps. I think people sees their streets in a different way.

00:08:27:02 - 00:09:01:11
Gil Penalosa
Yeah, exactly. I think that's that is why it's so important because I think to have a successful eklavya those calling both our open streets, as it's called in most other places or really any of these people on the streets and every city in the world has people on the streets. So is it how to do it? When I was commissioner and I actually wasn't even under me, it was under the commissioner of transportation, and they hated it because they all the people in transportation, they were about cars, fast cars.

00:09:01:12 - 00:09:26:24
Gil Penalosa
Yeah, yeah. And then it was becoming smaller and smaller and just had a few miles and a few thousand people. And in five years we turned it into the world's largest pop up park every Sunday and every holiday. So about 64 days of the year it opens up. And by the way, when I tell people, whenever you can make a change, do as much as possible because you never know.

00:09:26:24 - 00:09:54:05
Gil Penalosa
People say, Oh, no, we can Boslough people already changed their minds. No, people have not. Any change in cities needs a champion. The reality is that in 2020 we had 75 miles, 121 kilometers, and today we have exactly the same. It has not increased by one single inch. So but this is important people and I've been talking about it in the hundreds of cities where I work and have help.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:17:05
Gil Penalosa
Many cities get it on board because it's not about recreation. It's not just fun and games. It has many, many benefits, especially when it interconnects the whole city. When we realize we remind people that the streets are public space and as public space is going to have different uses according to the time of the day, the day of the week, the week of the year.

00:10:18:11 - 00:10:48:20
Gil Penalosa
And that is very, very important because the streets are about 20 to 30% of the area of our cities. So it's very important say, look, we can have better use also is good because it's about social integration, it's about interconnecting the whole city. One of my ambitions was that it was only in the upper middle, upper income area of the city the few miles and I increased it to the poorest areas of the city so that everybody would connect.

00:10:48:29 - 00:11:19:07
Gil Penalosa
And I was equals also is a great equalizer because the bicyclists do not segregate the running shoes, the walking shoes. They're on segregate. So everybody meet first. And that is another thing that I thought that it was very powerful that you get everybody meeting as equals. It's the only place where the owners and CEOs of corporations and their families meet with their minimum wage workers and their families are equal.

00:11:19:07 - 00:11:43:03
Gil Penalosa
And that is very powerful. And actually my idea came from New York when I became commissioner. I was reading the biography of Frederick Olmsted. Olmsted did most of the major large parts in the U.S. and Canada. And one of the things that he was saying, he said in New York, everybody, 170 years ago, everybody hated everybody. The Black Sun.

00:11:43:03 - 00:12:04:13
Gil Penalosa
Why is the rich and the poor, the immigrants and the locals? And he said, we need to find places where people meet each other as equals. The reality is that the CEOs and owners of corporations and the minimum wage workers, they don't live in the same buildings. Their children don't go to the same schools. They don't even go to the same restaurants.

00:12:04:20 - 00:12:27:15
Gil Penalosa
We meet tomorrow as equals. And then I thought about it and I said, Well, actually, any city anywhere in the world could have that effect of meeting as equals. And the physical activity and the benefits to health if we use the streets. And that's how it began. And I've been helping cities around the world and it's really, really important.

00:12:27:15 - 00:13:07:12
Gil Penalosa
And vital cities is really important to do it quickly. And if they are winter cities, okay, do it from May to September throughout the summer. But if you do it quickly, because then it gains popularity when people know that it's every summer, So is it not? Is the sun is is not is the summer is now they know that is every single sun that is happening and that gets more people also because the health benefits both mental and physical, are a lot more we need to weekly because one of the things that many studies have shown is that if you are doing this on Sundays, it is more likely that also you are going to

00:13:07:12 - 00:13:33:08
Gil Penalosa
be physically active on the weekdays. Also, people realize how short the distances are. So because many of the people that are in both that one out of five people are on the open street, over a million people and people realize that the distances are really short. Even the people that have cars. So then they say, Oh, you know, maybe some days I'm when I use my bike or I'm when I walk or so.

00:13:33:09 - 00:13:36:06
Gil Penalosa
So it has multiple benefits.

00:13:36:06 - 00:13:53:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love that you reinforced the, the weekly aspect of it. It's, it's that repetition and being able to establish a habit, a routine that hey, this is what we do on Sundays. This is, this is how we go about this. The other thing that I.

00:13:53:25 - 00:14:17:09
Gil Penalosa
Think is very important that people understand that this is not about an event. See this spend too much money on events. The 4th of July is much better. The programs, the program, the daily program, the weekly program, the monthly programs. But if it has continuity, it is much better for physical health or mental health, for the environment for everybody.

00:14:17:29 - 00:14:41:24
Gil Penalosa
So. So I will recommend cities always to not only with the open space, but with anything to focus more on the programs that are yeah, advance one side are very flashy, but sometimes they take up a lot of money and they don't really have the benefit that if we if you use the same amount of money by making it throughout the year, making it a program, not an event.

00:14:42:07 - 00:15:02:01
John Simmerman
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. And what's really great to about this concept of reimagining what streets are for is that it gets to similar when one of your earlier points that you made too is that you know don't go incrementally, go big, do bold, big things.

00:15:03:05 - 00:15:22:01
Gil Penalosa
Excited can be more when they are not big. Sometimes people do sit up in street of one mile and they say, we're going to see if it works. No, usually it doesn't work because even if you are running the wrong one mile, you'll get bored and then go back. I'm back and back. You are a bike. The mind is going to be just a few minutes.

00:15:22:14 - 00:15:45:19
Gil Penalosa
So. So you need to make it long enough so that actually people cycling will enjoy it. People running will enjoy also that they are not bunched up. And the other thing is because most of the people that participate is if it comes close to their home. So if you go within within 10 minutes, then they go. If is not within 10 minutes, they don't go.

00:15:46:11 - 00:16:07:15
Gil Penalosa
So that's why I kept increasing and present increasing it so fast to make it all over the city. Because we were in all of the service, it was very clear. So. So I want people to say, okay, how long or what is the this one? 10 minutes according to whatever, if people are going to walk. So it's 10 minutes walk in if people are going to bike and then is biking.

00:16:07:27 - 00:16:33:20
Gil Penalosa
But but it's important to be all over the city so that there is that connectivity. Also, I tell cities do it. There is no risk. There is no risk. I said, okay, what are you doing in 2023? Even if you don't want to do it weekly? Okay, you start model, but with with a certain frequency, the people know say, okay, we're going to do it May to October the first Sunday of every month.

00:16:33:23 - 00:16:55:22
Gil Penalosa
So everybody knows, okay, at the end of 2023 if it didn't work, okay don't do it anymore. But if it work, then in 2024, do it weekly every single week. Of course, it will be ideally from 2023. They do it weekly. But but it is important to have and to keep in mind you are not you are not investing in gymnasiums or arenas or buildings or water.

00:16:55:29 - 00:17:19:10
Gil Penalosa
No. So so the risk is the cost is low, the risk is low, but the benefit is very high. So it is worth trying. And I've seen it work in cities of 50,000 people or cities of 100,000, a million, 10 million, it was equally well. So this is not something for the big cities or the small ones or the poor or the rich.

00:17:19:22 - 00:17:45:00
Gil Penalosa
Is extremely successful in wealthy cities like Paris and Paris is that they have 52 weeks of the year, including the winter, as it is in cities that of lower income like Bogota or Mexico City. I need to work in large ones and small ones. So if I love the example of Paris, because sometimes people say, Oh, I wouldn't want to be like Bogota, okay, but you might want to be like Paris.

00:17:45:26 - 00:17:50:23
Gil Penalosa
That is the best. No, that's fine. This works equally well for everybody.

00:17:51:23 - 00:18:36:04
John Simmerman
And and I'm glad you brought up Paris. I had the privilege of being in Paris in 2015 when Mary Hill Argo had her very first car free day. And so I was there for a week and had the opportunity to film throughout the city and really get a sense of what the city was like with cars everywhere. And then on that Sunday, be able to experience it's the car free day in in Paris and to be on the Champs-Élysées there, which is normally just chock full of cars and be able to experience it just with people, you know, all throughout and really, again, reimagining what streets are for.

00:18:36:26 - 00:18:59:09
John Simmerman
And so much has happened. So much has changed since 2015 when I was there. And it was interesting, too, because I went back the next day that Monday and stood in the middle of the Champs-Elysées and just filmed. And what was astounding, Gil, is the noise. The noise was just deafening.

00:19:00:00 - 00:19:24:20
Gil Penalosa
One of the things that I love about Open Streets is that one is the level of noise is nothing. It's amazing. All within walking down the main streets and you are chatting as if you were inside a building and you don't need to be screaming while with it's full of cars. Everybody's screaming because it's hard to hear with all that noise and it's good to measure the noise.

00:19:24:27 - 00:19:49:04
Gil Penalosa
And like I said, we do that regularly in many cities and let's say at noon on a Sunday doing open streets and in the same place, Monday at noon, we measure the noise and when is also the quality of the air so that people also really see the difference and is totally different. And I think that it's something like the car free days.

00:19:49:04 - 00:20:27:27
Gil Penalosa
And again, when you mention doing it big, some city said oh and carefully they were going to do three blocks or is that about three blocks? What did you do citywide, even as an example, what does the city look like? And I tell them we use it almost as a teaching day that that people will learn the week before, get their children in the elementary schools to start doing drawings, whether the city look like without cars, they people in high school do a little bit of research and then they will find out that we've been here for hundreds of thousands of years and it's been 100 years since the car arrived.

00:20:28:23 - 00:20:54:00
Gil Penalosa
And so it serves to a philosophical, I think in day and a city wide. And then when you do a city wide, then you realize how good or how bad their public transit is, how walkable or how bicycle and what are the conditions is almost one day a year that you can shake people up or other city now like I was doing like five per year.

00:20:54:00 - 00:21:26:21
Gil Penalosa
But but even if you just do one a year, it's a day to think about what is the role of the car and how are we living. Which is something interesting though. During COVID when many people were working from home, many people liked the idea of working from home, but they realized that it was very hard to get their basic needs within walking distance and they realized that we need to really do our cities differently, that people should be able to have convenience stores and coffee shops and all of these and public transit within walking distance.

00:21:26:27 - 00:21:54:10
Gil Penalosa
So that is also something that that we learned when we have those car free days. And it is really important because it is showing all of this. Other people said same thing with the open streets. People see what it is. And I love the fact that all of the changes that Mary was doing, including the 15 minute city and all of this was is so and that is door is the mark of this transformation.

00:21:54:10 - 00:22:25:01
Gil Penalosa
So streets around the wall is not a technical issue, is not a financial issue. It's a political issue. It's a political is very inexpensive. When when elected officials say that they don't have the money, it's because they don't want to do it, because at the same time they are wasting money in a lot of flyovers. I mean, all other things for cars when with a fraction of that budget, they could do everything to improve the streets for people walking, cycling or using public transit.

00:22:25:01 - 00:23:05:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, and you talking about bold moves and big ideas. I mean, I love this this website, this landing page for your your recent run for for mayor of Toronto. And the reason why I love it is they're the the screen that's flipping through here is a lot of what we just talked about you just we were just talking about streets for everyone and parks for everyone and how that is so important that, you know, we do have that sort of approach where, you know, the city is for everyone and you break down those barriers that we you know, that we have that we self-imposed on ourselves.

00:23:06:02 - 00:23:26:24
John Simmerman
And it's just so I was super, super excited when in the summer time it was announced that you were running for mayor up there. And I'm like, oh, yes, yes. Well, and we were keeping our fingers crossed. And I know it was a really hard fought, you know, campaign. You came in second place and you did a fantastic job.

00:23:27:05 - 00:23:34:21
John Simmerman
But that's exactly what you were talking about, is having the courage and the political will to do bold things.

00:23:35:04 - 00:23:58:19
Gil Penalosa
And that yeah, that was really bold. Yeah. And I at the beginning of the year, I wasn't planning to run, but I started calling the people that I thought should be running. And the current mayor was running for reelection. And I called one under the other and the other and everybody said, Oh, no, he has too much money, he has too much power.

00:23:59:08 - 00:24:24:17
Gil Penalosa
Nobody can beat him. I said, But it's not just about bidding. It's about raising. The conversation is very, very clear that the city is going in the wrong direction, in that he's been there for eight years and in the last eight years. What? Less affordable, less equitable, less sustainable? We need to raise some issues. And then when when no one was running, then I made the decision to give back to the city and dedicate some of them.

00:24:24:17 - 00:24:47:15
Gil Penalosa
I'm for this time. Of course, I knew that I had no chance unless they made a big mistake, which he did not. But nevertheless, since the day that I registered, when I probably had 100 votes or family and friends 100 days later I got 100,000 votes, which is a lot about that's more than any mayor in the metropolitan area except Toronto.

00:24:48:06 - 00:25:12:20
Gil Penalosa
And but more important, I wanted to change the conversation. Like even people kept telling me all the time, No, you got to make it a simple slogan. You just got to say, Oh, let's get back to the ABC is for the whole beautiful and clean. I think anybody can say beautiful and clean. I want to talk to people about how we can solve the housing crisis, how we can solve mobility, how we are.

00:25:12:20 - 00:25:41:07
Gil Penalosa
When I make walkability and bike ability, how can we do public transit? And and it was very interesting because we did change the conversation in many, many ways. It would have been a very, very boring campaign with the mayor. Yes. Talking about the cost of living and and we and actually, he's been there in less than a month and he already brought up a housing policy on almost every issue that he put.

00:25:41:09 - 00:26:08:09
Gil Penalosa
Where was the housing policy that I had? And he had never done anything about it in five years. So so I think that we are made having day after day after day talking about this housing for everyone. He would not have done it. He would not have been pushed into it. And so I think that from the point of view of changing the conversation, it was important and it was really about giving back.

00:26:08:09 - 00:26:39:00
Gil Penalosa
Of course, it was very risky. If instead of 100,000 I have got in 5000 votes, people would have what I made want and say, Oh, you see, it's not that simple. Or so people are making up all kinds of stories and people are making lies and things. So, so it was risky, but nevertheless, fortunately, it went well. And I do think that there is a lot of people in the city and media, people that realize that there are a lot of solutions.

00:26:39:06 - 00:26:57:27
Gil Penalosa
One of the things that was very concerning is that when I talk to the people, especially young people that were most giving up, this are things are going to be like this. And I said, how can we get out of these people that are hopeless? The more in in to be in hope for, we can improve their cities.

00:26:57:27 - 00:27:21:27
Gil Penalosa
The things do not have to be the way they are. These are political issues and we can change it. And we see like Mary Hidalgo in Paris and and mayor are really I mean, right now a city and a wealthy city and a poor city. And both are doing huge transformations. So so I think that it was it was interesting, was important.

00:27:21:28 - 00:27:47:24
Gil Penalosa
I enjoyed it. It was very, very tiring because it's a 24 seven literally. But but but I think it was it was a good experience. And when and when I came up with the slogan of Toronto for everyone, it was also because when I asked people, What do you think of Toronto? And then the young people all say, Oh, it's good, but but for the older people, not for being the older people.

00:27:47:24 - 00:28:16:03
Gil Penalosa
And there's always a for the young, but not for me. Everybody said it was good for someone else, but not for them. And we it's more and more we're having a huge problems of equity in the cities. Equity almost a everything. Like people say, Oh, Toronto has a really nice tree canopy. Yeah, but where there is 28% three canopy, but where the wealthy people live is over 50%, where the low income people live is 5%.

00:28:16:08 - 00:28:37:27
Gil Penalosa
So even in there in the amount of trees is a huge problem of equity, equity or mobility or equity on par with the all on programs and activity is. And that is also something that in cities all over the world we really need to focus. When I look at maps of New York or Chicago by and by zip code is really incredible.

00:28:37:29 - 00:29:23:16
Gil Penalosa
And within the same city, even life expectancies are really basic measurement that measures many, many things. Life expectancy. In some zip codes, the largest frequency is 60 years and 10 minutes away is 90. And I have found we have 30 year different life expectancy 10 minutes apart. It looks like if you watch neighborhoods in almost not only to different continents, but almost to live from planet right and right in the same city and all really that that was the very uncertain because when we don't have cities that are good for everyone, usually they are cities that are not good for it for no one.

00:29:24:03 - 00:29:47:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And if we go over to your your main website here and we take a look at some of the, the things that you've been up to over the years, one of the things that that I hone in on is, you know, two things. You had mentioned, you know, the founding of of 1880 and we also have the urban world, urban parks.

00:29:47:18 - 00:30:12:12
John Simmerman
And you just you just mentioned it. There is you have these huge disparities that based on zip code, based on where you live, do you have access to a park within an easy walking distance? Do you have tree canopies in your area? Are you subjected to massive amounts of traffic, violence and and exhaust and noise from from from cars?

00:30:12:20 - 00:30:36:03
John Simmerman
And so it's so incredibly important to, you know, when we think of that a city for everyone is is looking at some of that data and saying okay well where what does the tree canopy look like in this neighborhood? What is that park? Is that park accessible? Is that park inviting? Does it have the tree canopy, you know, necessary and many other things?

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:46:07
John Simmerman
And then what is the exposure to pollutants and toxins and other toxic elements like noise pollution, such a huge part to be able to think about?

00:30:47:04 - 00:31:11:22
Gil Penalosa
Yeah, I'm like even when you look at this trees, I, I when I was meeting with the boards of the editorial boards of the main newspapers, I, I said that I was going to make city wide. City wide. The maximum speed limit should be 30 kilometers an hour, which is 20 miles an hour. 20 miles citywide. Why? Because we got to make them safe in their neighborhoods.

00:31:11:22 - 00:31:36:24
Gil Penalosa
Three, there's absolutely no reason why their neighborhood streets should not be 20 miles an hour maximum. And basically, if you get hit by a driver with a car at 20 miles an hour or 30 kilometers an hour, there is 5% probability of being killed, 5% if you get hit 35 miles or a 50 kilometers an hour, the probability is more than 80%.

00:31:36:29 - 00:32:00:29
Gil Penalosa
So it is radically different. And it was a curious sometimes this this editorial boards were asking me all about how are you going to enforce that is so difficult. It's almost impossible. And I said, look, all of you in this editorial board, you live in the nice neighborhoods of the city. What is the speed limit on those? In all of them is 30 kilometers an hour, which is 20 miles an hour.

00:32:01:25 - 00:32:23:11
Gil Penalosa
How do they enforce it? Very simple. They got two or three honks in every block and they have speed cameras and they have road that. Why is it that only on the wealthy neighborhoods of the city, all of the working areas of the city, the speed limit is low, but in the rest of the city, the middle income or the low income, the speed is much higher.

00:32:23:22 - 00:32:44:16
Gil Penalosa
Don't they think that also the low income people want to live in neighborhoods that are safe, that their children are not scare because they they might be killed by a car? So those are also issues of equity that we need to improve substantially. And that is doable. Completely doable.

00:32:45:26 - 00:32:55:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. That's such such a very good point. And and to your point earlier, to that, this is not a technical issue. This is a political will issue.

00:32:56:09 - 00:33:21:22
Gil Penalosa
Exactly the speed limit. And we see cities like Oslo, Oslo, last year has zero pedestrians consider zero. Cyclists can still be women. Why? One of their main reasons because they lower their speed citywide. All of the neighborhoods, streets and in the big three is the arterials. They also lowered it not to 20 miles or three kilometers, a little bit higher, but also they lower it and then it save lives.

00:33:21:22 - 00:33:48:01
Gil Penalosa
So if people can be patient and spend one or 2 minutes more on their way to work or whatever they are going, we are going to have better quality of life for everyone. So so this is something that we we must do and we the common good must prevail or over the particular interests. And this is doable. I like our Corbett, our corridor.

00:33:48:01 - 00:34:09:17
Gil Penalosa
We saw a lot of good lessons to learn. For example, in Oakland, California, in Oakland, California, they created the low street. What is this low street? Is this race for the neighborhood is only for the people that live in the neighborhood. If you are going from point A to point B on an arterial and there is a traffic jam, you cannot cut through the neighborhood.

00:34:09:27 - 00:34:31:02
Gil Penalosa
The neighborhood streets are for the people that live there and only at ten miles an hour. So all of this on the neighborhood streets became safe and children were playing and older adults and people with disabilities. And then the mayor came out a year and a half later and said, well, now do you guys want to go back to how we were?

00:34:31:04 - 00:35:10:13
Gil Penalosa
Because all or not all, what are you doing after more than a year of no noise, of clean air, of no danger, Now you want to go back, Not over 90% of the streets that residents said that they wanted to keep it as low streets. So these are the things also during COVID we saw when city after city after city around the world, when they said when when people had to stay home, there were lockdowns, all of the social buildings that you couldn't see because the quality of the air was so horrible or mountains in the background or other things just a few days or a few people driving, people staying home, and all of

00:35:10:13 - 00:35:34:00
Gil Penalosa
a sudden the quality of the air became so clean, it was so visible and is really inspiring in some ways, but also terrifying that you see the cities before the lockdown and after the lockdown. It was almost as if God had sent a message. If you want to clean air, this is the solution is really, really simple. You're going to have to your car.

00:35:34:04 - 00:35:58:15
Gil Penalosa
There is no other way to do it. But many cities are going back to 2019 when we know that over 800,000 children are dying every year because of bad quality of air. Over 4 million children are having lung issues for life because of bad quality of air. And we have that solution. We saw it. We saw it every city around the world.

00:35:58:15 - 00:36:29:20
Gil Penalosa
So why are we not doing it? So this is something that is also a little bit that that that that generation society, how are we going to do it if I think that we should involve public health in everything we do? I think that the post-COVID city, every decision that we make, the will of the street of their sidewalk, their speed, we should evaluate by it by what is the impact on health, what is the impact on equity and what is the impact on sustainability.

00:36:30:00 - 00:36:51:12
Gil Penalosa
So so if that that is the issue is not. So we cannot continue growing as we are. I mean, we need to realize that the cities are we've been doing in the last 50 years are not good for mental or physical health. They are not good for the environment, for climate change. They're not even good for economic development.

00:36:51:12 - 00:37:20:05
Gil Penalosa
So we need to do things radically different. So for this is a great opportunity for people to change. So unfortunately, too many cities are going back to 20 and instead of taking advantage of this opportunity, I mean, cities like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, all of them were invaded by their cars in their days in their cities in the seventies, and they had a situation similar to Kuwait.

00:37:20:10 - 00:37:42:03
Gil Penalosa
That was the oil crisis. When they had the oil crisis and people couldn't use their cars. Maybe one day. Yes, one day, no license plates. Then they started cycling, but they didn't have facilities. So a lot of children were being killed and their citizens were doing a huge demonstrations in front of City Hall every time someone was killed.

00:37:42:11 - 00:38:08:29
Gil Penalosa
And they forced the decision makers to build networks of protected bikeways. And then we saw how in women in places like Copenhagen, when they started building the protected by was about 5% of the trips were on bike and now it's about 45% city wide. And in the downtown is more than 60%. But is because you have the infrastructure, we need to have that infrastructure.

00:38:09:17 - 00:38:30:27
Gil Penalosa
So the way we do the streets has to be radically different. For example, trees. We need to have trees everywhere. We also saw through COVID that when we are close to nature, we live healthier. We need to have benches. I've seen some cities in the US that they have taken out all of the benches citywide and the mayors tell me that is because of the homeless.

00:38:31:08 - 00:38:56:06
Gil Penalosa
And I say what the homeless you think this is? There is magic. You take out a bench and a home shows up. I said, the homeless now is going to sleep on the sidewalk, but instead, many people with disabilities, children are especially many older adults. They will know to go out if there are no benches because they want to know they might and they might never even use it.

00:38:56:07 - 00:39:24:29
Gil Penalosa
But they want to know that if they get there, they want to be able to sit. So, so. So we need to rethink and make sure that the streets are really for everybody, for people that are walking and cycling and using public transit and you're seeing cars in that order, but also for people with disabilities and for people of all ages and so this has to be a rethink by not only thing, but we need to do we need to act.

00:39:25:13 - 00:39:39:02
Gil Penalosa
And some cities are moving in the right direction. Most are just talking, are not doing enough are doing small pilot. No, we don't need more. In most of the cases. We don't need more pilots. We need is action.

00:39:39:20 - 00:40:01:23
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And you have a program called A Walk in the Park with Gil and and you, you bring in a bunch of these people who are, you know, they're walking the talk, they're doing things, and they're and and you bring them on and you talk about them. Talk a little bit about, you know, you know, the experience that you have.

00:40:02:01 - 00:40:11:04
John Simmerman
Because when I when I click on this on the past sessions and I look at some of these wonderful webinars that you have put together, how many years have you been doing this now?

00:40:12:04 - 00:40:31:13
Gil Penalosa
Well, two years and years ago, the idea is called a walk in the Park with Gil. But as of January is going to be called Cities for Everyone with Gil because some people got to go and fuels and they thought that a walk in the park, it was because he was going to be only about parks and we have a girl like young girl.

00:40:31:22 - 00:40:59:03
Gil Penalosa
I was being a Michal Sylvan who was commissioner in New York and also he was the president of the American planners. And we had a so many beautiful day with them. And so I Brant or Darian, they have head of planning in Vancouver. And actually this year we're going to start on the in January with Carlos Moreno who is the head of the 15 minutes an advisor with Mary.

00:40:59:03 - 00:41:32:22
Gil Penalosa
They'll go and we're going to have Jeff Beck who just came out with the 10th year edition of the Walk Up Walkable, Walkable City. That is a fantastic book. I highly recommend it. And the idea the webinar is every other week on Tuesdays at 11 a.m. Eastern Time is always free, always with fascinating people that have help, have done themselves a pop up, get things done because I value a lot the people that get things done, because too many people talk about that sometimes there is not enough doing.

00:41:33:16 - 00:41:55:11
Gil Penalosa
So it's it's always free. It doesn't have any sponsors. It's taken me much more time, that one I expected. But again, I also feel that it's a way of of giving back. So if I can collaborate or Darian or just Bennett or young Girl and ask them to do it, so and people are able to and is very international.

00:41:55:11 - 00:42:06:15
Gil Penalosa
I always have about one third Canadians, one third Americans, and the third is from maybe 20 different countries. So that is the focus on on the webinar.

00:42:06:29 - 00:42:35:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it. There's 29 different episodes out there, folks. I'll be sure to include a link in the show notes and in the video description below, and they're fantastic. And again, very, very much a little bit like this in some sense. But then you turn it over to your guest and they basically give a little mini lecture and it's it's a wonderful way to learn, like you said, from the people who are out there getting stuff done.

00:42:35:10 - 00:42:41:01
John Simmerman
And really the thought leaders at the forefront, you know, around the world. Good stuff.

00:42:41:21 - 00:43:05:17
Gil Penalosa
There. It's about 60 Minutes and basically almost half of it is a presentation I to use lots and lots of images. Yep. And then the second half is a dialog, including questions that people from the audience send and it's it's interesting I said, well if after six months I don't have 50 people then I'll stop doing it automatically.

00:43:05:17 - 00:43:27:12
Gil Penalosa
It's always over 200. And we have on average about people from 25 different countries. And it is really interesting. I think that is like, like this, like active towns is, is, is about it. Everybody. I think that something that is really important is and that's why when you invited me immediately, I said this is because I think we need to share.

00:43:27:18 - 00:43:56:16
Gil Penalosa
We need to be more generous. Something that is really, really important is that we're talking about cities or towns or streets. Everybody benefits. Everybody benefits. So, Liz, they share ideas. Is not some of these people who are together. This is not like in their private sector. I mean, if if I'm making margs and I have 20% of the market of mugs and I want to go to 23%, well, someone has to lose 3% of the market for me to gain 3% of the market.

00:43:56:27 - 00:44:18:05
Gil Penalosa
But in someone like Oakland, California, these are really good for most low streets. And I go and see what they did and I learned from them and I adapted to my city. They don't have to get any worse for me to get it better. So it becomes a win win. So when someone is doing, I tell there is no like on the computer that we copy and paste.

00:44:18:12 - 00:44:42:10
Gil Penalosa
Nobody's adapt and improve. We can all learn from each other, both on things that work as well as things that did not work. So when we see that law went to zero traffic incidents and traffic deaths by lowering their speed, okay, let's analyze what is it that they did? How do they do it? Were there any issues? What were the problems at the beginning, the end?

00:44:42:10 - 00:44:48:14
Gil Penalosa
I thought so. So I do think that is very, very important to learn from successful stories.

00:44:49:09 - 00:45:17:09
John Simmerman
And what I love about what you just said, there are two, Gil, is that the examples that you're using are pulling up examples of where these transformations are taking place. These are not easy decisions, you know, and easy things to do. But it did take that political will. It did take bold moves to be able to like, in the case of the city of Oslo, of saying that, you know, hey, we need to decrease the number of vehicles that are coming into our city core.

00:45:17:18 - 00:45:39:28
John Simmerman
And they went through a process of not only lowering the speed limit, but also decrease by dramatically the number of parking spaces available and then the number of vehicles coming into the city core. And so these are bold visions. And you mentioned, you know, Copenhagen and also the cities in in Amsterdam or excuse me, the cities in the in the Netherlands, including Amsterdam.

00:45:40:10 - 00:46:05:15
John Simmerman
You know, they they had their moments like you said, they had their their huge moments that were similar to like what we experienced included is it was a reset button. It's like, oh, we need to rethink how we're doing this. And I especially love the Dutch example in the sense that the image that people have when they say, Oh, we can't be like them, we can't be like them, you know, it's always been like that.

00:46:05:19 - 00:46:21:12
John Simmerman
No, Look at the photos from the 1950s, 1960s and into the 1970s when that cultural shift started to change. Those cities were clogged with automobiles, so they had to incrementally go through that process of changing. And that's exactly what they did.

00:46:22:08 - 00:46:59:02
Gil Penalosa
It is very important for people to realize that it's not about copying, it's about adapting and improving. And then it is, for example, Bilbao in Spain, Bilbao. So what was happening in Oslo? They went there and then they adapted and they went over to 30 kilometers or 20 miles an hour citywide. So sometimes when some city has done good things is because often politicians find it difficult to make decisions or convince citizens when they think they are pioneers.

00:46:59:09 - 00:47:20:21
Gil Penalosa
Maybe because they think that pioneers get shot in their back. But then this element of Paris, Paris eliminated 50,000 parking lots, so they allow. So that was a mistake in our favor. They thought that they had the guts, of course. So people complained that this is is always hard, is not only in your city, is every city everywhere.

00:47:20:21 - 00:47:52:15
Gil Penalosa
It's been hard at the beginning. For example, when you make pedestrian streets, always you make a pedestrian cities in Mexico City, they creating the downtown Madero or one of the main streets connecting the central square pedestrian. And everybody complained everybody hated it. But when they when they announced it once they did it, then all of the other streets are begging the government that they also want to be pedestrian only because their business is in the pedestrian only is way better than in the other, in the others.

00:47:52:21 - 00:48:20:13
Gil Penalosa
So so it always takes a little bit of leadership. But what people need to realize is that we are not doing well. We're moving towards climate change crisis and is bad. And we also have an issue of public health. And for example, too many people talk about Obamacare or Trump care or now Biden care. The reality is that no health system is going to work if it's only curative.

00:48:20:22 - 00:48:48:03
Gil Penalosa
We need to be preventive and having streets and parks and trees and nature is part of it I mean, for example, when people are looking for the magic pill, well, the magic pill doesn't exist. The magic pill is called physical activity. And the only way that large groups of people are going to be physically active, the only way is by walking or riding bicycle as a normal part of everyday life.

00:48:48:14 - 00:49:07:18
Gil Penalosa
There is no way. I mean, people hear my my play soccer once a week. People might play tennis or golf or work or the gym or whatever, but we need them to do it five or more days a week. And the only way is walking or in and around the world, the only way that cities have done this.

00:49:07:18 - 00:49:31:07
Gil Penalosa
So if we know that that is going to be good for depression or anxiety or to strengthen the muscles of the bones, osteoporosis, the for the heart, for the for the strokes for I mean, it has multiple benefits. We need to make it very, very, very easy and simple for people everywhere to be able to be physically active.

00:49:31:22 - 00:49:34:05
Gil Penalosa
Something that is easy and enjoyable.

00:49:34:23 - 00:49:55:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, well, then it's sneaking activity into our daily routines. You know, when you have an environment, a community that is that is safe and inviting for all ages and abilities, it it gives you that ability to, you know, be able to, oh, we need to go down to school, we need to go to work. We need to go to the grocery store.

00:49:56:00 - 00:50:05:00
John Simmerman
Oh, we can easily walk. We can bike. It's it's you're sneaking activity in without it being exercise. You know, you don't.

00:50:05:00 - 00:50:26:08
Gil Penalosa
Have to do that. The idea that that is what we need to do if people ask do we want to go running or whatever out of enjoyment, that's perfect. But it's not because they are doing their 30 minutes now. They are 30 minutes is part of everyday life. For example, the schools, more schools around the world, they are eliminating the cars that are moving in front of this school and even around school.

00:50:26:16 - 00:50:45:23
Gil Penalosa
So they are closing those streets even the whole day or 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes in the afternoon when the children are going in or out. So they need they need to drop them off around. And if they are a small kid, they need to walk them. But it's about creating that area that is safe.

00:50:46:01 - 00:51:08:15
Gil Penalosa
So it's about inviting children to actually walk or bike to school, get in all of the intersections within whatever, a half a mile or whatever from from each elementary school and making sure that that is safe doing their role DIAS and their crosswalk and the lights and and everything. So it not something that is hard but it is something that we need to give priority.

00:51:08:24 - 00:51:32:17
Gil Penalosa
But and we know, for example, that when the people are driving their cars to the elementary school, to the drop off area in front of the school, we are poisoning the air. That air is toxic for the next two or two and a half hours. So the children have classrooms near that drop off area are going to be a breathe in toxic air for 2 hours every day.

00:51:33:05 - 00:51:59:24
Gil Penalosa
How is it that we don't realize, okay, let's eliminate the drop off areas in front of classrooms or in front of the administrative offices? I mean, these are things that really make common sense. But sometimes, like they say, common sense is the least common of the senses. That's why. But it is something that we need do and we need to work on making sure that everything that is public is totally interlinked.

00:52:00:12 - 00:52:30:21
Gil Penalosa
We need to make sure that all of these schools are open at least they are the outdoor areas of the schools are open for the community so that people can use them. I worked in many municipalities, I worked in over 70 or 80 cities in the US, for example, working in cities like in Texas. I went to many schools that have this ten foot high fences, and at 4:00 in the afternoon, when this kid or the school is closed, they put a lock and they don't let anybody go in.

00:52:31:23 - 00:52:59:14
Gil Penalosa
And at the same time, there is a huge problem of obesity or lack of physical activity or heart attacks. Strokes are local and they got the schools and the schools are public. They were built with public money. Why is it that they are closed after 4 p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays and on holidays and on vacation? So. So we need to rationalize it and be able to everything that is public has to serve.

00:52:59:22 - 00:53:21:25
Gil Penalosa
We need to have multiple uses, but that's part of the 15 minute city also. How is it that we use the same facilities for multiple uses? How is it that maybe one street may full of cars or Monday through Friday or Monday through Saturday, but then on Sunday we're going to open it up 8 hours for people to ride their bikes or walk or run or whatever.

00:53:21:25 - 00:53:44:11
Gil Penalosa
So the schools are going to be only for students do that they time, but they might be good for the community in general at night and on weekends and the libraries and the connectivity and all of this that that is part of what we need. We talk sustainability, but then we don't leave sustainable. And these these are the kind of things it is not that we are going to leave any water.

00:53:44:11 - 00:53:51:24
Gil Penalosa
No, we're going to leave actually better that we're going to live healthier and we're going to live happier. But we need to live differently.

00:53:51:24 - 00:54:01:16
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Looking forward to 2023. What is on your agenda? What are you excited about to be engaging in in 23?

00:54:02:29 - 00:54:43:12
Gil Penalosa
Well, I'm looking forward because I think our cities do need to change, So I hope to continue doing a lot of masterclasses, workshops, keynotes and I want to work a lot with older people because I think this is something magnificent. I worked with AARP in our 22 different states in the US. I want to work with older people everywhere because it's one third of our lives and we have not really realized maybe, you know, we need to think that for example, in the US they laugh expectancy more than double in the last 150 years.

00:54:43:19 - 00:55:09:28
Gil Penalosa
This is incredible. By now we have added years to our lives, but now we need to look at life to those years. And some people have their mind that our life of older our own is the last two or three years when we become very dependent or 80% of the time as older adults who are very independent and people want to be physically active and wonderful and free, we don't want to have a purpose and want to do all kinds of activities.

00:55:09:28 - 00:55:32:22
Gil Penalosa
So I think that too many times these cities, they focus on how to develop activities for children and youth, but they almost do nothing for the people over 60. And I do think that they would the people over 60, I mean, everyone should be able to live, order healthier and happier. And part of it is infrastructure, but a lot of it is about programs.

00:55:33:01 - 00:55:53:18
Gil Penalosa
Older people, for example, the suffer of loneliness, loneliness, because we don't organize activities. So we need to organize is not just about doing walking pass, we need to organize walking groups, we need to organize meeting in the park. We need in the winter time, we need to organize anything in the school so that we open classrooms to do so.

00:55:53:18 - 00:56:23:04
Gil Penalosa
It is really, really important. One third of our life is as older at 43rd, but clearly we have not been living as well as we could. And the well-being is not about expensive. It is more about a change of mindsets. We need to sleep better. We need to eat more green base. We need to be physique active. What we were talking to I while ago is very, very important.

00:56:23:12 - 00:56:40:18
Gil Penalosa
And if that physical activity is close to nature, it's even better. So in 2023, one of my goals is to do a lot of work on with decision makers in cities and with the groups of all. There are rules on or live in order healthier and happier.

00:56:41:04 - 00:57:02:04
John Simmerman
Fantastic. And I've got your website up here and again, you mentioned your master class is strategic advising, which is what you're talking about right there. And of course we talked about earlier to lead us off with the inspirational keynotes and and we if we slide down, we can see, yes, you're all over the place, You're a busy man.

00:57:02:15 - 00:57:27:29
John Simmerman
And what I also note about this is it's the services are offered both virtually and in person, which is obviously something that was incredibly helpful during the height of the pandemic, is being able to shift over a lot of our our content this podcast and and channel is a is a manifestation of that and it sounds like you have done a little bit of that as well.

00:57:28:23 - 00:57:55:21
Gil Penalosa
Yes, I but it's also something that is interesting that people realize that they can learn also through this. So I'm also going to be doing some intensive master classes on four days from Monday through Thursday, 90 minutes each day like I did on cities for everyone. And then eventually I'm going to do some specialized on parks and public spaces or on streets or on sustainable mobility.

00:57:55:21 - 00:58:23:27
Gil Penalosa
But the initial one is going to be about creating cities for everyone. And then so so I want to say also with small groups so that people have a lot of time to ask questions. And our dialog with a groups of 25 people on and hopefully raise the level of the conversation, give people examples of different ways of doing things because we need to move fast, right?

00:58:25:00 - 00:58:28:01
Gil Penalosa
So is there is a sense of urgency?

00:58:28:21 - 00:58:38:08
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it. And I love it too, because if it's if it's it is for people, they're going to be active towns. There's going to be a culture of activity inherent in those cities.

00:58:39:02 - 00:59:02:18
Gil Penalosa
Or in everything. I think that the issue of the activity is I love when people go and play soccer and when people do play golf or whatever. But about more than anything is about being active as a normal part of everyday life. That's how people walk to get their bread. They walk with their friends in the neighborhood. They they ride their bikes to go to work.

00:59:03:05 - 00:59:34:21
Gil Penalosa
They take public transit. So they walk through the public transit being active. I think if if we need to make it as simple as because there is is unanimous, regardless of the political regime, regardless of the size of the control of the world of the country, everywhere there is agreement that we need to be physically active and it has to be 30 minutes or more, but it has to be five days or more per week.

00:59:34:21 - 01:00:05:27
Gil Penalosa
So for active towns, that that is really the solution on many, many, many of this on this issue is also is free and is simple. But what the cities can do is to facilitate if their sidewalks that are flat, that don't have barriers in their crosswalks are safe and there is enough time if it's a big intersection, if it has a small island so that people can wait in the middle, if it has nice window so that when you are walking, it's inviting you to walk and look at the windows.

01:00:06:07 - 01:00:39:00
Gil Penalosa
If the transit stops, they have nice shelters for the heat of the summer or the cold of the winter. So they are active down there. Cities need to facilitate, to invite, to encourage. But in the past we were building in the cities inviting people to use cars and nothing else. Now I think that is very, very clear that we need to do to invite people is nothing against the car, but is that is going to be better for everybody also because cars are very, very expensive.

01:00:39:15 - 01:01:01:12
Gil Penalosa
On average in the U.S., the people that have our cars are more the mobility spend 20% of their income on operation and it is low income person is 30% of their income. So that low income person 30% of the mobility and about 40% on housing. So they got 70% and they have not even purchased a piece of bread.

01:01:02:10 - 01:01:32:22
Gil Penalosa
So if even households will downsize from two parts to one or from 1 to 0 will be as winning the lottery. And a lot of that is through active towns and towns. Doesn't mean that people are going to live any worse, does the opposite. People are going to live better and they are going to socialize more and they are going to be have better health and this is going to be a win win for for the individual, for their family and for the planet.

01:01:32:22 - 01:01:40:09
John Simmerman
I couldn't have said it better. Your panelists, it has been such a pleasure and honor having you on the Active Towns podcast. Thank you so much.

01:01:41:04 - 01:01:43:21
Gil Penalosa
Thank you very, very much for inviting them. All their best.

01:01:44:10 - 01:02:04:02
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Gil, and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Share it with a friend, leave a comment down below and if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and ring the notifications below next to it to customize your notification preferences.

01:02:04:23 - 01:02:31:11
John Simmerman
Next week I'll have another episode for you. So until then, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again sending a huge thank you to all my active towns. Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron Buy me a coffee YouTube Super Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:02:31:11 - 01:02:40:15
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.