Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:08
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Engineers have still are able to come in, you know, after we've already thought about like, where are we going to widen the highway? And they just figure out how to do it. You know, they're not thinking about the community. They're not thinking about the environment and the emissions and the noise and all of those other things. It's sort of already an assumption that this project is important and it's needed and we don't think about those bigger impact.

00:00:23:08 - 00:00:40:29
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So I think it is so important that that be part of our engineering education. We cannot have engineers that are not thinking about, are not aware of the bigger, wider impacts of of what we're building and what we're designing.

00:00:41:01 - 00:01:06:07
John Simmerman
Everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Jeanie Ward-Waller from the Sacramento area. We're going to be talking about her new position with the fearless organization, as well as her past in terms of how she came to do this work as being a traditionally trained engineer, as well as a little bit of a dustup that happened when she was working for Caltrans.

00:01:06:09 - 00:01:13:08
John Simmerman
So let's get right to it with Jeannie.

00:01:13:10 - 00:01:17:00
John Simmerman
Jeanie, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:17:02 - 00:01:19:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Thank you, John. Great to be here.

00:01:19:09 - 00:01:28:22
John Simmerman
So, Jeannie, one of the things I love to have my guest do is just kind of introduce themselves. So who is Jeannie?

00:01:28:25 - 00:02:01:11
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Well, I am a lot of things maybe best known for being a transportation advocate and advocate for biking and walking transit, all things kind of sustainability related, as well as for equity and making sure that our most disadvantaged communities are benefiting from the investments and the work that we're doing in in transportation policy. I'm also a runner, I'm a mom, I'm a dog mom, and I love to just do lots of things outdoors.

00:02:01:11 - 00:02:19:21
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So trail running is the way I spend most of my time outside. But I also love to ski and bike and rock climb, do lots of things outdoors. So anything that gets me outside as it is is fun and helps. Helps clear my brain for more advocacy work.

00:02:19:23 - 00:02:25:13
John Simmerman
my gosh, we've got so many things in common. We can we could spend hours talking.

00:02:25:15 - 00:02:26:09
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Well, okay, cool.

00:02:26:10 - 00:02:52:23
John Simmerman
So is a trail runner, too, and a skier. fantastic. I. I grew up near you. Up in the town of Lincoln. And when I was a youngster, I was on the junior national ski patrol up at Boreal Ridge, the ski resort up there. I was right off of amazing. And now I'm a passionate trail runner. So that's one of the things that I love to do.

00:02:52:26 - 00:03:10:15
John Simmerman
I just want to bring my toes into the world of ultra trail running and and trying to push the distances up there. So I haven't gone very far yet. I've made it to the, I guess, the 50 kilometer mark, so I've made it to 31 miles at this point. But yeah, very cool.

00:03:10:16 - 00:03:17:21
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Well, beware, because you get addicted, you know, the longer you go, the more you want to push up to, you know, the mile marker.

00:03:17:24 - 00:03:30:03
John Simmerman
So believe me, I know I was an Ironman distance triathlete for 20 years, so I, I, I get the the addiction to the the longer distances.

00:03:30:05 - 00:03:34:22
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I do triathlon, too. So I can I can I remember covering traveling.

00:03:34:25 - 00:03:42:28
John Simmerman
Okay, So so tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you end up landing in Sacramento of all places?

00:03:43:00 - 00:04:00:09
Jeanie Ward-Waller
well, it's a good story, a long story, but I'll try to kind of give you the short version. So I started my career as an engineer and I worked in Boston. I went to graduate school in Boston, and I got a job in Cambridge across the river and worked in the private sector for a small firm and was doing really interesting work.

00:04:00:09 - 00:04:31:16
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I was designing buildings, mostly large scale, you know, high rises, university buildings, institutional building. It was super interesting work, but I would say like the day to that, you know, I loved seeing my work go up and like getting, you know, doing doing the real interesting parts of design. I did not like the day to day of sort of like, you know, designing a building where every floor is the same and you're kind of looking at checking every beam and it's a giant building and it's, you know, some of that can be very tedious.

00:04:31:19 - 00:04:54:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And I was really interested in kind of the bigger scale, like the implications of the community that the building was in and the environmental impact of engineering. And so I ended up pivoting, you know, even while I was still working in engineering, getting very interested in sort of sustainable building design. And at the time there was this big movement of green buildings.

00:04:54:21 - 00:05:20:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so I got LEED certified, which is a certification called Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, and I ended up getting into a program in the UK at the University of Cambridge called Engineering for Sustainable Development. And I got a master's degree and and that and got to spend a year in Cambridge on the other side of the pond in the UK, which was just an incredible experience.

00:05:20:20 - 00:05:51:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
But that just like totally broadened my vision of my career and what I could focus on. And it was interesting degree because it's called the Master of Philosophy, which and it's a unique thing that they have in the UK, but it was kind of more I like to describe it as like engineering ethics and the study of what is the engineer's responsibility in the age of climate change, in the age of, you know, just all of the issues that we have with so much population all over the world.

00:05:51:27 - 00:06:20:29
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Certainly we still need big infrastructure like roads and dams and bridges, power, power and communications systems and all these things. But but the impacts are so huge. And we know that we know that sort of negative impacts and unintended consequences of the things that we've designed and we're now trying to account for that. And so what is it engineer's obligation to understand those impacts and design and solutions?

00:06:21:01 - 00:06:43:04
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And, you know, as I was sort of grappling with these big issues and thinking about like, my God, global climate change is so many problems, I got very interested in bicycling at the same time and urban transportation systems. And and I thought like, man, gosh, I should have been an urban planner because I love, you know, these big complex kind of systems problems.

00:06:43:06 - 00:07:01:14
Jeanie Ward-Waller
But, you know, here at this point I had now three engineering degrees. So I was like, okay, what am I going to do? What's the next step in my career? And I, you know, I had a professor when I was at England at the University of Cambridge, who was an advisor, and I said, I'm really struggling. I don't know what I want to do next in my career.

00:07:01:14 - 00:07:23:19
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I think maybe I want to do, you know, go work for a development nonprofit or something like just totally Shaft. And she was like, Well, if you want to work for a nonprofit in any, any sector, any, any kind of field, the most important thing you need to do is be able to fundraise and raise money. And she was like, So just pick something that you care about and find a way to raise money for them and you'll be an asset.

00:07:23:22 - 00:07:42:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And it's like, okay. And I'm like, literally on the plane coming home from England, like, you know, like journaling and thinking about what would I do? And I was like, Well, I've always wanted a bike across the country, so maybe that's my thing. Like, maybe that's what I'll, I'll find somebody to raise money for and do this organizes bike trip across the country.

00:07:42:20 - 00:08:05:00
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So that's what I did. And this was in 2011. So I planned this whole trip. I recruited my sister and my mom came and a really good friend of mine. There are four women, you know, committed to this journey across the country. And I plan my route by picking the least bike friendly cities in the country, like trying to connect them up.

00:08:05:03 - 00:08:33:22
Jeanie Ward-Waller
A lot of them are in the South, a bunch are in Florida and Texas. And and we were we were planning to leave in February of 2012. We also had to stay in the southern part of the US to avoid winter weather. But we planned this crazy route. We started in Key West, Florida, and we went all the way up Florida and then across and kind of hit like Arkansas, Alabama, Oklahoma, down through Texas, and then all the way across the southern southwestern states.

00:08:33:25 - 00:09:03:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And we finished in San Francisco. Wow. And it was this amazing journey. It took us three months. We did 5200 miles. I think our average was something like 70 miles a day. We didn't take one day off a week. Anyway, I could talk for the whole hour about that trip alone. Yeah, but literally it changed my life and I had that just totally serendipitous luck that at the end of the trip, we came to Sacramento.

00:09:03:09 - 00:09:26:06
Jeanie Ward-Waller
We were invited to speak at the State Department of Public Health, was putting on a one day kind of conference about difference to school. And this is an organization I have learned about this before this national partnership when I was doing my master's degree and was super interested in their mission, and they were one of the organizations that I ended up choosing to fundraise for on this trip.

00:09:26:08 - 00:09:56:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so for us, partnership as well as the League of American Bicyclists and and our cause was bike friendly cities, bike friendly communities. That's what we were that's what we were talking about as we were biking across the country. And we went to lots of schools and we just connected with so many amazing groups across the country. So so as I get to the end of this trip, we come to Sacramento and we met Deb Smith, who is an amazing just amazing pioneer individual.

00:09:56:19 - 00:10:21:00
Jeanie Ward-Waller
She's unfortunately passed away a few years ago. She just has an incredible story. In fact, there's just a book out about Deb and her life, which I recommend to anyone, but she basically on the spot was like, I want you to come work for me in Sacramento. What are you doing after this trip? Like, you know, you did this amazing, amazing thing and raise money for my organization and you should be an advocate.

00:10:21:01 - 00:10:45:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And and I just, you know, couldn't have been luckier. You know, I couldn't have scripted it in terms of like, finding a way into a job that I just was so passionate about. So that is what brought me to Sacramento. That's what got me into transportation and that's what got me into doing policy work. And I learned I got to study from Deb, who was just a total pro, coached me and mentored me on my first year in Sacramento.

00:10:45:22 - 00:10:58:15
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And and then, yeah, I can talk more about the work that I've done since. But but that's really what what brought me here and what got me into being an advocate for sustainable transportation.

00:10:58:18 - 00:11:21:00
John Simmerman
I love that story. I love that. I love and I love to that, you know, Deb played a huge part in that. Yes, we lost her much, much too soon in all of this. And yeah, but her legacy continues to live on, as you well know, in the state for her by the national partnership and the great work that is going on there.

00:11:21:03 - 00:11:31:22
John Simmerman
And I believe that as part of this, too. You also then did some work with Cal Bike, talked a bit about that work and what Cal Bike is.

00:11:31:25 - 00:11:56:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So Cal Bike is the California Bicycle Coalition, and they're the statewide bike advocacy group here in California. They are networked with all the local bike coalitions in different cities and counties across the state where a huge state and there's a lot of advocacy work to be done here. I'm Cal bike is really the representative of four issues related to bicycling in Sacramento.

00:11:57:00 - 00:12:17:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So after moving to Sacramento, I worked for save for a couple of years and then I transitioned over to Cal Bike and I was a policy director there for several years and I just absolutely loved working at Cal Bike. A good friend of mine is now the executive director, and so I'm working with them again really closely in my new capacity.

00:12:17:12 - 00:12:48:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
The Cal Bike has been instrumental in so many things. I think maybe what's most most significant in my mind is the work around creating the active transportation program in the state of California, which is the main grant government grant program, both federal and state funded that funds active transportation infrastructure in the state. So both biking and walking. But as you know, more than 200 million a year now, it got a big boost a couple of years ago.

00:12:48:27 - 00:13:11:14
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So they're just massive investments being made all over the state through the active transportation program. And Cal Bike was instrumental in creating that program and also in making sure that that program prioritizes investments in disadvantaged communities in our state because we have so many communities that have been underserved and been left behind and making sure that they're safe places to walk and bike.

00:13:11:16 - 00:13:19:21
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And this program is trying to address that by making sure our disadvantaged communities get projects funded first.

00:13:19:24 - 00:13:35:01
John Simmerman
It's fantastic. Now it sounds like this ATP, the active transportation program funding, is a funding entity. It's getting is it actually getting money directly from the feds and then being able to help distribute that?

00:13:35:04 - 00:13:55:02
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Yes. Yeah, it's run it's run by the State Department of Transportation, Caltrans, as we call it here in California. And it's both state and federal money. So there's there's a combination of kind of federal formula funds, as well as some state gas tax funds that, you know, get combined into this pot that we call the active transportation program.

00:13:55:02 - 00:14:05:23
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And then every two years, our Transportation Commission award, you know, grants the money to local governments, cities and counties to do projects in their community.

00:14:05:25 - 00:14:35:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, fantastic. I know. I just had the opportunity in November to film and profile some wonderful projects that went in in sand in Santa Barbara in of their kind of at risk neighborhoods and neighborhoods that have been, you know, historically underinvested in and so wonderful safe pedestrian crossings going in some protected bike lanes going in wonderful traffic calming and modal filters going in in that neighborhood.

00:14:35:25 - 00:14:56:29
John Simmerman
And that word just kept coming up over and over and over again. The active transportation program and the end fund. So that's fantastic. Now, you mentioned, yeah, you're going to be working with Cal Bike once again in your new role, which is over here at Fearless Advocacy. Talk a little bit about Fearless.

00:14:57:01 - 00:15:08:11
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I'm so proud to have recently joined this firm Fearless Advocacy, which was founded ten years ago by my friend Jennifer Fearing. So fearless is obviously.

00:15:08:13 - 00:15:11:18
John Simmerman
What a dream.

00:15:11:20 - 00:15:55:04
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Is. A It's an incredible brand and one that I definitely embrace in my work. So so it's a really good fit for me. But Jennifer also is someone who I have admired. She's a lobbyist in Sacramento, represents primarily nonprofit organization, So she only works for people who have values that are aligned with hers. And that's part of where the fearless brand comes from, is kind of fighting for those causes that she cares about so much and that, frankly, really need advocates need need folks who are working and who really know the work and know how to do it well and can bring some extra umph to to those causes.

00:15:55:04 - 00:16:21:20
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So you can see, yeah, lots of cal nonprofits which is an association of nonprofits, represents hundreds of nonprofits, lots of wildlife organizations, ocean protection organizations. And then you'll see California Bicycle Coalition is in there. Transform is in there a few of clients that I've been able to bring to the table to start to build out a transportation portfolio.

00:16:21:22 - 00:16:34:23
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So my job is going to be director or it is director of transportation advocacy. And so I'm going to help us kind of grow our work advocating for nonprofits around transportation.

00:16:34:25 - 00:17:12:16
John Simmerman
I love it. That is so cool. And what's really, really interesting, too, about your your history and getting that that degree, the doctor philosophy degree from Cambridge and the point that you made of like the ethics of from an engineering perspective, because this is a very common thread in terms of our current state of affairs. When we look at the sense of urgency that we should have to be moving forward with infrastructure projects that, you know, are morally justifiable, you know, and ethical.

00:17:12:18 - 00:17:36:21
John Simmerman
And and I talk a lot on the channel here about, you know, what is the code of ethics that engineering should have, especially when we look at transportation engineering. And you mentioned a couple of different things, including, you know, underserved populations and it's just it's amazing that application because it goes from like the hard sciences and that was kind of my background.

00:17:36:21 - 00:18:08:17
John Simmerman
It was in hard sciences, in human physiology. And and then very quickly, I started getting into, you know, past human physiology, into psychology and behavior change. And like in similarly with you hard sciences of how to build buildings and infrastructure in engineering, and then all of a sudden you have this layer of, of philosophy and ethics and a fair amount of behavior change is filtered in there as well.

00:18:08:20 - 00:18:20:02
John Simmerman
It's interesting how, how, how that works. You know, it's like you can't you've got the hard sciences, but you also have to have, quote unquote, the soft sciences of athletics and in philosophy and all that.

00:18:20:04 - 00:18:52:15
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Yeah, I think it's such an important point. And so what I you know, I did my finished my undergraduate degree 20 years ago when I studied engineering as an undergrad. You know, I had an ethics course. We touched on it, but it was you know, it was mostly focused on, you know, if you make a mistake, how do you write that wrong and how do you be really honest about doing good work and owning and owning mistakes and, you know, making sure you correct those mistakes before they become, you know, things that create harm.

00:18:52:18 - 00:19:19:11
Jeanie Ward-Waller
It did it it was not at all focused on the sort of bigger community and even global impacts of our projects. And, you know, when you're an engineer, the first thing you do when you're starting out looking at a problem is you put boundaries around the problem. You say this is a system that I'm working on and usually it's like just a little bit outside of your bridge or your roadway or whatever little piece of infrastructure you're building.

00:19:19:13 - 00:19:43:20
Jeanie Ward-Waller
You're not thinking about all the homes and the land uses and the bigger system that your project is connected into, you know, for transportation, like one little link in the system, one little, you know, what we would call a project as an engineer is part of a connected network that gets you from A to B that might have miles and miles of roadway or trail or whatever on either end.

00:19:43:23 - 00:20:26:13
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And all of those piece, the whole system matters. It's not just the one project, but in engineering, we tend to focus on just this little piece and we try to bound the problem. And, you know, unfortunately, we've we've created a huge amount of negative impacts, especially when you think about, you know, our highway system. Right. And I and I think only in, you know, at least as far as I'm aware, I think only in really recent years have we, you know, really started to look broadly mainstream and talk about the impact of highways on communities that were divided, destroyed, you know, displace and start to really atone for that.

00:20:26:13 - 00:20:52:17
Jeanie Ward-Waller
You see some programs that were created and like the bipartisan infrastructure law and very recently in California about converting highways back to Boulevard or taking down highways and transportation infrastructure that divided and displaced communities. We have a bunch of examples right here in Sacramento. When I-5 was built and it completely displaced the Japantown community, that was a thriving economic center.

00:20:52:17 - 00:21:20:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Lots of small businesses, lots of homes and there's massive impact. And the legacy of that is, you know, we're still living with today and in fact, we're still doing it today. We're still widening highways and continuing to displace homes, continuing to bulldoze parts of communities that have been living with this legacy for generations. And it's it's got to be in the forefront of our conversation is those those kinds of impacts.

00:21:20:10 - 00:21:39:25
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And unfortunately, you know, we've sort of we've not sort of we have put the burden of thinking about that stuff on planners and not on engineers. Engineers have still are able to come in, you know, after after we've already thought about like, where are we going to widen the highway and they just figure out how to do it.

00:21:39:28 - 00:21:59:20
Jeanie Ward-Waller
You know, they just run the calculations of like, well, how big do the curves need to be? And how much pavement do we need? And, you know, they're not thinking about the community, they're not thinking about the environment and the emissions and the noise and all of those other things sort of already an assumption that this project is important, that it's needed and we don't think about those bigger impact.

00:21:59:20 - 00:22:20:19
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So, I mean, back to your question, I'm kind of going on a big tangent, but I think it is so important that that be part of our engineering education. We cannot have engineers that are not thinking about, are not aware of the bigger, wider impacts of of what we're building and what we're designing.

00:22:20:21 - 00:22:28:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. And to be fair to engineers, I mean that to your point that hasn't been a part of their training and what.

00:22:28:26 - 00:22:30:02
Jeanie Ward-Waller
100%.

00:22:30:04 - 00:22:55:22
John Simmerman
Yeah, maybe that should be part of their, their training. And so to be fair to them it then requires that we change the system and you're you're you're closing comment here on this tweet is it's hard to change direction when there's so much momentum in the system, the system of just continually building more roads and more lane miles for highways.

00:22:55:24 - 00:23:10:09
John Simmerman
And so it kind of isn't I mean, it's easy to to pick on the engineers. I mean, there's there's lots that we can pick on the engineers about because, well, there's a lot that we should pick on the engineers for, as you well know.

00:23:10:12 - 00:23:16:12
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And as a as an engineer. Yeah, I will embrace that.

00:23:16:14 - 00:23:43:18
John Simmerman
You know, Chuck moron and I joke about that too, because he's also an engineer but then also did a planning degree. But yes, we've got a system. And in that particular article on I-15, you know, there's you're quoted in there too, and this is the quote that you have in that system. It's like if you create more space on the freeway, more people are going to drive and increase vehicle miles traveled.

00:23:43:20 - 00:24:03:01
John Simmerman
And it's it's one of the most important things for us to realize as a society is if we keep making it easier for people to drive, they will drive. And ultimately we don't get much bang for the buck because then more people drive and then those lane miles get filled up.

00:24:03:03 - 00:24:04:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So, right.

00:24:04:09 - 00:24:33:09
John Simmerman
Your point here is that it's totally appropriate for the CTSI, and that's the Transportation Commission to be asking questions like, did you do the analysis? Well, are you mitigating the impact? Well, yeah, You know, before they start handing out the funding to build yet even more and more miles. And so I think those are like the questions from an ethical perspective that we should be asking, you know, is this what we should be doing?

00:24:33:14 - 00:24:44:16
John Simmerman
If what we say we value is human life and a trying to do something about a climate that's literally burning up.

00:24:44:19 - 00:25:11:15
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Right. Yeah, 100%. And I you know, I am an engineer. I also I worked at Caltrans in our say, D.O.T. for six years. I was very devoted to that organization that agency. And, you know, a lot of folks will make big generalizations about, you know, this big bad organization that's doing all this damage or, you know, doing projects that are not are causing harm.

00:25:11:15 - 00:25:39:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
But the reality is there are incredibly good people, Caltrans. And I'm glad that that's what that's what kept me there for so long is like all of the I mean I hear it so much and planners, engineers, biologists, the admin folks, all the support people, the maintenance workers, the folks that are out in the field every day on our roadways, you know, keeping keeping the roadways working and keeping them plowed in the winter.

00:25:39:12 - 00:26:05:06
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I mean, just really good people who are doing the good work in public service. And, you know, the engineers are like you said, like we're talking about, they're trained to do a particular job and they actually do it incredibly well. If we tell them their job is to, like, build these projects and get them done quickly and, you know, focus on on time, on budget, they're going to do it and they do it incredibly well.

00:26:05:06 - 00:26:33:00
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I Caltrans it's I just can't say enough about you know it's a it's an incredible organization. But there's so much momentum in that system. 22,000 people at Caltrans and their job primarily what they have been what they have been charged with is building and maintaining our state highway system, our primarily car infrastructure. There's other little pieces, other little units that work on rail, that work on active transportation and that do landscape design.

00:26:33:02 - 00:26:56:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
You know, they do all these other things that are related. But they're small units in a 22,000 person organization. And so, you know, you create a system like that, it's going to deliver on what you've been charged. And it's very hard to change that despite our policies and our interests and our state goals. Shifting is really hard to to shift.

00:26:56:10 - 00:27:07:08
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so, you know, the the result is what we would expect. They're going to keep doing things the way they've always done them. And and it takes hopefully, you know, more than one person.

00:27:07:08 - 00:27:48:19
John Simmerman
Well, hopefully they will keep doing things the way they have been. Hopefully it will start to change. But you're speaking from experience. I mean, you did work within Caltrans, you did work within the organization. And and yeah, I mean, the whole reason why we're talking here today is because this dustup all took place, you know, last fall of you know, you ended up losing your job at Caltrans for speaking out against a highway widening because you were kind of speaking truth to power and you were saying, you know, questioning, hey, are we really doing due diligence to the to what we're saying we should be doing?

00:27:48:21 - 00:28:26:24
John Simmerman
We don't have to get into the specifics if you don't want to of of the nitty gritty of of the new do the nuance and the minutia that people can read about that. But I do want to point out that to your point, yes, there's some incredible people that work within these state dots, including Caltrans. But oftentimes they're just trapped in a system where that momentum, as we talked about before, the road building, lane building, highway, widening momentum, because that's what we've been doing for the last 50, 60, 70, 80 years is hard to change.

00:28:26:24 - 00:28:32:15
John Simmerman
It's hard to steer that ship, but darned if you didn't try.

00:28:32:18 - 00:28:57:29
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I sure did. And I think I mean, I've made this point a bunch of times in talking about it since then, and I'm I am happy to talk about, you know, the the circumstances around my my termination at Caltrans. But, you know, my job I was hired to be a change agent. I was hired six years ago at Caltrans in the sustainability program, which was kind of brand new at the time.

00:28:57:29 - 00:29:21:19
Jeanie Ward-Waller
It was just getting going. I worked for the woman who was the deputy for sustainability at the time, and she brought me on to help build the program and help really, you know, spread the gospel and help improve guidance and improve policy at Caltrans to be more in line with our sustainability objectives in California. We have very strong laws around climate change, around equity.

00:29:21:22 - 00:29:39:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And and so that's, you know, that's why I was hired at Caltrans was really to come in and be a voice for change. And I was successful enough at it that I was promoted into this job. That was the one that I was in when I was terminated where I was the deputy director. And I was like fifth in line below.

00:29:39:10 - 00:30:04:25
Jeanie Ward-Waller
The director of the whole department. And I was in a powerful position. So I wasn't just speaking truth to power, I was in a position of power. And the things that I was like, the questions that I was raising, the concerns that I was raising about a particular project that was was the subject of my whistleblowing. Those were the conversations and the questions I would raise every single day in the job.

00:30:04:27 - 00:30:27:03
Jeanie Ward-Waller
There was nothing different from my perspective that I did related to that project that I wouldn't have done about any other project. And that was my job. I was a change agent. You know, I was very practiced in saying like, Are these the right things? Is this the right project? Is, you know, did we do everything that we could on this project to mitigate the environmental impacts of widening this freeway?

00:30:27:05 - 00:30:46:10
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Did we look at transit options in the area? Did we look at the walking and bicycling connections between Sacramento and Davis, and did we find ways to improve those as much as we can? Because that's how, you know, it's not just about demonizing and saying highway widening isn't a good thing because highway widening is going to create more space for more people to drive.

00:30:46:13 - 00:31:11:02
Jeanie Ward-Waller
It does, in theory, improve transportation. If that's what you care about, creating more space for more people to drive. But it doesn't improve congestion over the long term. If congestion is the problem you're trying to solve, and it certainly doesn't give people other options. In fact, for the most part, widening the freeway, it makes it harder to get across the freeway, makes it harder to walk and biking there.

00:31:11:02 - 00:31:29:26
Jeanie Ward-Waller
It makes them a lot less pleasant because you have all that extra noise from the traffic and it doesn't do a lot to make taking transit better unless you specifically prioritize transit, unless that new lane that you're building is a is a bus only lane that's going to give priority to busses and busses. They're not going to be stuck in traffic.

00:31:29:28 - 00:31:58:19
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so that is really the problem, right? Is the more we spend our limited funding, limited government dollars, tax dollars on widening, which is an incredibly expensive way to try to improve transportation, the less we have for other things, and in fact, the worse we make circumstances for other options potentially. So that's what we should be weighing. And it becomes this sort of like black and white debate of like, do you hate highways or or not?

00:31:58:21 - 00:32:30:18
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And it's just not that simple. It's more a question of how do we prioritize how we're making investments to have the biggest the overall benefit. And I think more and more we know and we acknowledge that providing people with options not to drive is better, it's better for communities, it's better for travel, certainly better for the environment. But it does again, it takes a long time to change the system, to change people's behaviors, to help people see that there are superior options that don't involve them getting in their car.

00:32:30:24 - 00:32:48:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Changing habits is kind of a generational effort. So, yes, Caltrans, I think is is making a shift, but it's a generational kind of shift. It's not going to happen next year or even in five years. It's going to take a long time. It's going to take a lot of people, advocates like myself, pushing to get there.

00:32:48:29 - 00:33:20:00
John Simmerman
If when I saw this happening in and granted, I mean, you're in a much better shape with your D.O.T. than we are here necessarily in Texas. You know, in many states have Dot's that are almost even outright hostile to anything other than building highway miles in in your situation there. It it kind of is like, you know hey I'm going to be this change agent.

00:33:20:00 - 00:33:51:15
John Simmerman
That's the role I'm playing. And part of the reason why I'm here is because we have this these imperatives and these desires to do something about the climate situation that we have about global warming and California in particular is just getting pounded by, you know, the changes in the climate and, you know, that imperative. So the political structure, you know, all the way to the top is such that, hey, we need to do something about this.

00:33:51:17 - 00:34:18:10
John Simmerman
But when it actually gets to the minutia of, okay, well, how do we make this cultural shift and then how do we, you know, either put the brakes on or steer this tanker pardon the the terrible pun here of, you know, of of changing the momentum in a system that, as we said earlier, is just all about, you know, continually building capacity for more driving.

00:34:18:12 - 00:34:39:25
John Simmerman
And I remember when the four or five was widened, you know, it was just a couple of years before, you know, it was completely, you know, again, in fact, it. Right. We were hoping that, yeah, well, if we widen this darned thing, you know, we'll get, you know, maybe five years relief, maybe ten years, we know it was like, what, 18, 24 months or something like that.

00:34:39:27 - 00:35:12:28
John Simmerman
And we were back at gridlock. So, yeah, I, I hope I'm hopeful that that this will work. Well, you know, I don't want to say you were a sacrifice and you become a martyr. Your career was a martyr in that because you landed in the perfect type of role, which is to really focus on on this. Part of it is we need to continue the pressure on the policies that need to take place in this transportation realm to get significant change.

00:35:13:01 - 00:35:51:09
John Simmerman
Grant Innocent I grant is the author of the book dark PR. I don't know if you've had a chance to read this, this book or not, but you know you might want to watch my my episode with him but he speaks to that the entire book is is like talking about it's imperative that we address the fact that so much of these challenges when it comes to changing our transportation systems is the fact that so much of it is subsidized to this level and subsidized by motor dumb, as Peter Norton would say, to continue doing things in the status quo, continue doing things in this nature.

00:35:51:12 - 00:36:25:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Right. Well, and it's an incredibly hard system to change, too. I would just I mean, California is is you know, we have kind of a unique complexity of of government at all levels because we've got local government, we've got regional government, you know, and that the decisions that get made about transportation are made at all levels. So it's a it's a very complex system to interact with because you have to kind of be paying attention to, you know, everybody, all of these different levels of government and who controls the funding and who's most behind any project.

00:36:25:27 - 00:36:53:08
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And it it really it's different. It's different every time. Sometimes the local government is putting money in first to get a product started, and then they're expecting that the state and the feds are going to invest as the project moves forward. So get lots of different money on a project and then it's often rolling. It's like you can't stop it once, once it's once the momentum is there and you get lots of elected officials who have championed getting funding and then they're all bought in and they want to see the results.

00:36:53:08 - 00:37:22:00
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so, you know, often it's decades from the time where a project gets its first money. It's kind of doing its conceptual planning and it's environmental studies. And then, you know, until it actually gets built, take that. It takes decades. And sometimes, you know, hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars like the four or five example. So you can see why it's such a hard system to change because there's just like this crazy complexity of distributed decision making and different complex funding.

00:37:22:00 - 00:38:00:13
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And you can't just like push on one lever and change the system. You have to change it all over the place. But I do I feel very hopeful and I think, you know, certainly my my position at Caltrans, you know, being in that role was a victim of kind of raising a protest flag. But but I you know, there's so much work to do in advocacy, and I'm very happy to be back kind of on this side of things with the experience and the expertise that I gained at Caltrans, because I really understand how decisions get made and how that system works.

00:38:00:13 - 00:38:23:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so I can be a real asset to the advocates that I work with now in providing that understanding and making sure that we're thinking about shaping policy in a way that will really be effective when it gets put in place. And, you know, I'm incredibly thankful for the media and how many outlets reach out to me and said, Hey, this is a really interesting story.

00:38:23:07 - 00:38:48:28
Jeanie Ward-Waller
This is something that people care about. Its affects everyone's daily lives. Nobody is not affected by transportation and highways. Everybody in California in some way interacts with the transportation system every day. And and so it's a compelling, interesting story. And so there's been a lot of coverage, including now, you know, they're starting L.A. Times, Politico, they're starting to pay attention to what happens at the Transportation Commission, which has been there, an oversight.

00:38:48:28 - 00:39:19:23
Jeanie Ward-Waller
They have a huge responsibility in California, and they approve the billions of dollars of funding that go to Caltrans and to a lot of local agencies around the state. So their job is really important. And now some of those media outlets are paying attention to the commission and their meetings. So bringing some sunlight to that process and having them interesting and compelling coverage of these issues that helps the public better understand what's happening in transportation is not common sense right?

00:39:19:26 - 00:39:41:08
Jeanie Ward-Waller
The systems don't like work. How you would imagine, you know, you're sitting in traffic on a highway and you imagine like, of course, we need an extra lane here because there's so much demand. But like, people don't understand the level of complexity of like real solutions to that transportation problem. Congestion is not a problem that you solve just for creating more space for more cars.

00:39:41:10 - 00:40:02:11
Jeanie Ward-Waller
That's not how you how you address congestion. It's much more complicated. So so you need you know, you need to help people understand the complexity of the solutions and help create that demand for thinking smarter about the problems that we're trying to address. Yeah, giving people options. Yeah.

00:40:02:14 - 00:40:39:18
John Simmerman
And a big part of, you know, giving people more options is, you know what, like we were talking about earlier is building out those alternative networks and those alternative systems. And so going back to the ATP and are you getting down on all ages and Abilities network? Are you building that network out so that people legitimately have the ability to to be able to get to meaningful destinations, especially when we consider that anywhere between 40 and 50% of every trip or, you know, when we look at all of our trips, 40 to 50% of them are essentially, you know, bikeable distances.

00:40:39:20 - 00:41:03:14
John Simmerman
And so can we create an environment that encourages, you know, those choices. Maybe not every trip is taken by bike. You know, maybe it's a combination of, you know, jump on transit and then bike. And then once you build the infrastructure in there, you can start working on some of the other things, like working on the soft side and encouraging people to get out and ride.

00:41:03:16 - 00:41:17:06
John Simmerman
I had to ask you about this photo. So I a my my partner, Laura and I, we both have that same torch helmet that lights out. So those are those are fun. What's the story behind this awesome shot?

00:41:17:09 - 00:41:35:19
Jeanie Ward-Waller
man. Well, those are two of those ladies in the front there, two of my colleagues from Caltrans. So, you know, very good examples of other change agents that Caltrans that are doing really meaningful work. I'm trying to remember this is in Sacramento, but I don't I don't remember exactly which ride this is.

00:41:35:21 - 00:41:37:17
John Simmerman
Looks like a awesome group ride.

00:41:37:20 - 00:42:21:25
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Yeah, I think it maybe was America's Bike Month event. We always tried to do, you know, organize lots of events during the day at Caltrans. It really were geared towards, you know, getting our getting some of the leaders of Caltrans and other staff out to ride and to engage in transportation because again, I think that's part also of changing the culture and changing the mindset of folks making decisions and doing the engineering as know, having to go out and actually interact with what they've designed and understand how is like the striped bike lane sure doesn't feel that comfortable with traffic whizzing by or when we're passing a freeway on onramp, it would be way better

00:42:21:25 - 00:42:44:01
Jeanie Ward-Waller
to be on a separate path or out of traffic, protected from traffic. So so we did a lot of those kinds of events and they were, well, well-loved and lots of people showed up for them. So that culture, I think, is changing a lot and it's just really exciting to see the potential.

00:42:44:03 - 00:43:33:01
John Simmerman
Well, you just referenced a couple of your formal former colleagues there at Caltrans, and you are also the recipient of the Rosa Parks Diversity leadership Award of the Sacramento chapter of WTS. I think one of the things that I've been noticing, especially when we look at the cities where we're seeing just some amazing things happening. One of the common denominators that I see, whether we're talking about, you know, Mer and Heald all go in Paris, you know, some of the other strong mayors that I'm seeing on the East Coast, you know, looking at you, Boston and others, is, you know, advancing in leadership roles like in elected positions, but also this advancing women in transportation.

00:43:33:04 - 00:43:36:26
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about the WTS organization.

00:43:36:28 - 00:44:08:04
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Sure. Well, I was yeah, I was really honored to be awarded the the Rosa Parks Diversity Award from our Sacramento chapter. I was involved in WTS, I think, when I was undergrad getting my first engineering degree. So I've known the organization a long time, certainly providing support, scholarships, resources, you know, that work to women. And historically male dominated field is is critical.

00:44:08:06 - 00:44:32:03
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so I think WTS is a terrific resource. And and I've also you know, I think just personally had made it a mission of mine to mentor women not not just in engineering, but in any career field that I've been in, because I do think it is so important to have women leaders and involved in making our decisions.

00:44:32:03 - 00:45:02:03
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And I've seen a real shift in my time in engineering, also in transportation, with more and more women stepping into the field, coming in as new engineers and planners, but but also stepping into leadership roles. And I think that reflects this shift in our goals and our priorities and how we think about, you know, taking care of our communities and how our communities are impacted by the things that we design.

00:45:02:05 - 00:45:31:27
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Women often bring you know, and I don't want to stereotype here, obviously, there's lots of folks that do this, but, you know, bring real care to their work. They care about, you know, the impacts and the people. And and I think that shift in the field and the sector and the focus of what were you know, what what outcomes we're trying to get from our projects is is in part because of more and more women entering the field.

00:45:32:00 - 00:45:40:20
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So I think it's incredibly important. And yeah, organizations like WTS really help to, to do that and help to make the shift.

00:45:40:22 - 00:46:18:14
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree and I, I really embrace that and I love seeing more and more women in these critical roles. I think because of, you know, probably a lot of traditional caregiving roles that women have had, they bring a level that brings us a little bit closer to what we were talking about before, where it's not just like the hard sciences, it's also an appreciation for that softer side, you know, of being empathetic for what's being done and maybe even pausing and saying, is this even the right thing to be doing?

00:46:18:16 - 00:46:44:21
John Simmerman
And that brings us right back around to the ethics side of things. And the a philosophy side of things. So I think that's really important. So in looking at your new role and what the types of things that you're working on, what are you super excited about, you know, pushing forward and moving into the, you know, the rest of the year here in 2024.

00:46:44:24 - 00:46:47:28
Jeanie Ward-Waller
To just this year? Well, I'm super excited.

00:46:48:01 - 00:47:08:11
John Simmerman
And beyond and beyond. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially things that you're working on which are can be policy related could be, I don't know, maybe even making sure that we're putting, you know, candidates, you know, into elected officials that, you know, are reflecting, you know, these morals and these ethics that we're, you know, trying to push forward here.

00:47:08:17 - 00:47:30:14
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Absolutely. Yeah. It's an important year for that for sure, knowing, you know, what what candidates are thinking about as they're running for office this year that yeah, relate to these issues and, you know, not just transportation, but also housing. Housing is an incredibly high priority in California because we have, you know, just this rising crisis.

00:47:30:16 - 00:47:57:04
John Simmerman
Yeah. When you look at housing, you look at affordability. You cannot not also talk about transportation in that same breath of affordable housing, because when you really look at the realities of household budgets and you look at affordable housing, transportation is a huge percentage of what is affordable in part. So it's not to mention just distances too. I mean, you know, getting back to are there meaningful destinations within there?

00:47:57:04 - 00:48:00:23
John Simmerman
So you get into land use planning and everything else. Yeah.

00:48:00:25 - 00:48:21:02
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Yeah, exactly. No, you're totally right. So those are the kinds of things that I look for. A lot of elected officials when they get asked questions about transportation or climate change and transportation, you know, they kind of immediately go to like, well, we need to electrify, we need more electric vehicles and more infrastructure to support that. And I totally agree that is needed.

00:48:21:02 - 00:48:47:11
Jeanie Ward-Waller
That's critical because we are going to continue to drive for the foreseeable future. But we also need the infrastructure and to make those changes and to invest in public transit, to invest in making our streets walkable and bikeable and infill, you know, the kind of infrastructure that supports infill housing development so that we're reinvesting in our existing communities rather than building new ones on the edge of our cities, on the edge of our metro areas.

00:48:47:11 - 00:49:12:25
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So I look out for those kinds of comments and kind of candidate platforms when they when they put out their their platform. So so that's really important. That is something you know, obviously it's going to be big this year for a lot of folks. You know, there's also a lot of work to I mean, working on several bills for clients in the California legislature this year.

00:49:12:27 - 00:49:28:13
John Simmerman
That was going to be that was actually going to be. My question is, given your role, I mean, is a lot of this, you know, looking at kind of formulating, you know, some of those bills and I guess that is answering. It is that's the level that you are looking at from a policy and a legislative perspective is.

00:49:28:19 - 00:49:31:07
John Simmerman
That's right in that area. Okay. Yeah.

00:49:31:07 - 00:49:55:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so there are a couple of specific bills. I'm happy to talk about them, but I'm also helping to support a whole coalition of advocates that are working in Sacramento and that are part of a network called Climate Plan. And they work together on, you know, supporting bills, developing bill ideas together, but also thinking about like what is the longer term priority for our collective groups.

00:49:55:10 - 00:50:32:09
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And so I'm I'm helping that group as well. Think about how are we not just running bills but also working on kind of the administrative side of policy change, thinking about the PR side and the, you know, the public mindset and public engagement change that we need to be making. So that's really exciting. And to me, I think what I'm hopeful about is the collective work and how that is growing, not just in California, but we see, you know, nationally there is a network now called the Freeway Fighters, which is bringing groups together, local groups all over the country that are trying to fight the freeway.

00:50:32:11 - 00:51:04:21
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I'd never heard of this project. And I just think, you know, it's incredibly inspiring that these groups are getting organized at that level and that there's infrastructure and resources and support and to to share best practices and share success and and help, you know, this larger movement and that it can be a collective and not just, you know, sort of one off battles that, you know, groups don't may not have the resources to fight against their state or team.

00:51:04:23 - 00:51:22:26
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Yeah. So that's the kind of thing I hope to be really involved in in the future is is supporting the networks and coalitions and, you know, bringing bringing my experience and my expertise to support some of that bigger strategy.

00:51:22:29 - 00:51:35:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. You know, I, I, I see that in just about the freeway fighters of course here in, in Austin, Texas. That's a big part of our challenge here.

00:51:35:24 - 00:51:37:15
Jeanie Ward-Waller
You're an epicenter right now.

00:51:37:17 - 00:52:12:06
John Simmerman
Where we're an epicenter. Yeah. We're actually recording this on on February 22nd. And earlier this week, I actually released, you know, this this video here, the second one down on the screen, which is the wider work and the fact that Rethink 35, a community organization is suing textile it, you know, for similar types of things they it looks like textile it you know was playing a little bit fast and loose in terms of avoiding, you know, some of the impacts, you know, on their environmental assessment.

00:52:12:06 - 00:52:30:05
John Simmerman
And so the is calling them out on that. And and this organization, which is a community run organization, is filing a civil lawsuit as well as several complete as well as a lawsuit saying that they didn't actually follow the process that the feds say that you need to follow.

00:52:30:07 - 00:52:32:07
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:32:09 - 00:52:50:27
John Simmerman
So you're you're I to your point is that, yes, this is not just isolated to California that I mean, this really is part of a broader movement to close this out. Any final thoughts on anything that we haven't yet talked about that you want to leave the audience with final thoughts?

00:52:50:27 - 00:53:24:03
Jeanie Ward-Waller
I think any time I'm asked this sort of a question, I mean, I like to tell people that like there's never been a more exciting time to work in transportation. And so I really encourage people, especially young people, you know, if they're interested in these issues, if they're not even just transportation, but land use planning, you know, just our our systems, the systems that our communities built on, it's just there's so much change and there's so much opportunity.

00:53:24:03 - 00:53:47:04
Jeanie Ward-Waller
The problems are really thorny, but I think that makes it so interesting and and fun. And you have to be strategic and you have to be creative and you have to be willing to speak up and terms the process. So I love, you know, nonprofit advocacy organizations tend to be breeding ground for people who are young and outspoken and passionate.

00:53:47:04 - 00:54:14:21
Jeanie Ward-Waller
And I just love working with young advocates who are learning the process and finding their way because they're just so creative and energetic. And and that's what we need, frankly. That's what we need in government, too. It's it's a good thing when advocates, you know, spend a few years working for a nonprofit and then go into government because we need those kinds of outspoken folks to be inside government, too, and be advocates, as I like to say them.

00:54:14:24 - 00:54:35:15
Jeanie Ward-Waller
So. So yeah, I just think it's so exciting and and I appreciate the chance to talk about it and kind of share my story because I think I've taken an unconventional path through my career. But I love what I do and I'm really excited to be continuing to to work on this mission of improving our transportation system.

00:54:35:18 - 00:54:36:28
John Simmerman
So and we.

00:54:36:28 - 00:54:38:26
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Appreciate you, John, for the time.

00:54:38:29 - 00:55:05:15
John Simmerman
you you're quite welcome. We're quite lucky to have you and that varied background that you have, because I think it is essential that you had that engineering background and came to this. I mean, one of the biggest challenges, I mean, my background is in public health. And so that's what I bring to this argument and this conversation is you know, 20 somewhat years in the public health arena, you know, before, you know, 15 years or so, you know, focusing on the built environment and in going into this.

00:55:05:21 - 00:55:25:16
John Simmerman
But this photo right here, I think is is illustrates exactly what you were saying, is that it's exciting, it's fun, and there's a lot of energy and a lot of great momentum happening. And yes, it is going to be hard to to butt up against and, you know, fight against the status quo and motor dumb. But we can do it and we have to do it.

00:55:25:16 - 00:55:37:03
John Simmerman
There is a sense of urgency that we need to do this. And I certainly do appreciate everything that you have done and are continuing to do. Jeanie, thank you so much for joining me on the Active tense podcast.

00:55:37:05 - 00:55:39:04
Jeanie Ward-Waller
Thank you, John. Appreciate it.

00:55:39:10 - 00:55:55:20
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Jeannie Ward Waller and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and remember to ring that notifications below.

00:55:55:21 - 00:56:17:28
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content I'm producing here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts via Patriot and buy me a coffee YouTube Super. Thanks for down there as well as buying things from the active town store like My Streets are the people swag that I've got out there, as well as making contributions to the nonprofit every little bit helps and is very much appreciated.

00:56:18:01 - 00:56:41:17
John Simmerman
Until next time. This is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again sending a huge thank you to all my active town's ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron Buy me a coffee YouTube super. Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit effort and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

00:56:41:20 - 00:56:42:27
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.