Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:31:03
Jennifer Hamelman
Starting in Maine was really cool because we actually have, a US bicycle route in Maine. So lets us be our one and see the green sign therefore. And that's one of the programs in the organization where we work with and are the technical advisors to that dot across the country. So the goal of the USBRS, which is what we call it shorthand, is to have a and essentially an interstate interstate bicycle travel network.

00:00:31:04 - 00:00:56:12
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Jennifer Hamelman, formerly with the Adventure Cycling Association. We're going to be talking about, some of her work that she had done in terms of developing the cycling routes across North America. We're also going to be heading down memory lane, talking about, an adventure that she took, heading from Maine, through Minneapolis, several years ago.

00:00:56:12 - 00:01:16:10
John Simmerman
And, yeah, having some fun, talking a little bit about that experience and some of the characters that you meet along the way. And that's really the key is the human connections that you make. But before we dive into that, I just want to say, if you're enjoying this content here in the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador.

00:01:16:15 - 00:01:34:14
John Simmerman
Super easy to do. Just click on the join button right here on YouTube down below. Or, become an Active Towns Ambassador. Via Patreon. Buy me a coffee. YouTube. Super. Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit. You can do that by heading over to Active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page.

00:01:34:17 - 00:01:42:02
John Simmerman
Okay, let's get right to it with Jennifer.

00:01:42:04 - 00:01:46:12
John Simmerman
Jennifer Hammerman, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:46:15 - 00:01:50:02
Jennifer Hamelman
Pleasure to be here with you today, John. Thanks for inviting me.

00:01:50:04 - 00:01:56:01
John Simmerman
You know, Jennifer, I love giving my guests an opportunity to introduce themselves. So who the heck is Jennifer?

00:01:56:03 - 00:02:18:26
Jennifer Hamelman
So I'm Jennifer Hamilton, and I have been a part of Adventure Cycling for close to 25 years. I recently have stepped away from that organization, but I my passion and my, interest still is quite keen into the bicycle travel world, and I am quite proud of the work that I and the organization did in the time that we were working together.

00:02:18:28 - 00:02:40:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. So wow, 25 years at that organization for those people who don't really know and who knew, and I didn't even have this conversation. My my audience truly is an international audience. So on any given episode, you're going to be speaking with, folks, throughout Central Europe, Down Under as well as here in North America. But yeah.

00:02:40:25 - 00:02:50:24
John Simmerman
Can you explain a little bit about the organization? Who who the heck is the organization? And you know what it sort of evolved into over the last 25 years?

00:02:50:26 - 00:03:27:03
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, sure. So adventure cycling actually has a have a really long history. 2026 will be the 50th anniversary of the founding of the organization, which started with two intrepid couples traveling from Alaska to Argentina. And there's a whole backstory that goes with that. But one of the things that came out of it was, they had this like, this idea to create a, a really exciting event called the event ended up calling a bike Centennial, which was, celebrating the bicentennial of the country in 1976.

00:03:27:03 - 00:03:54:23
Jennifer Hamelman
They thought it would be super cool to have people ride their bicycles from coast to coast celebrating this anniversary of the country. And from that event, the organization was born. And it's all about inspiring and empowering people to travel by bicycle. There's over 40,000 miles of mapped routes all around the U.S. with a handful of miles in Canada.

00:03:54:26 - 00:04:18:26
Jennifer Hamelman
And they're published on printed maps. Now, I know that's a bit of a quaint idea at this point in time, because so many people's lives, all depend on, you know, the computer they carry in their pocket, their their mobile device, their cell phone. And adventure cycling has made great strides in making our routes are making the routes available, via that medium as well.

00:04:18:27 - 00:04:49:00
Jennifer Hamelman
A recent partnership with ride with GPS has really expanded that opportunity. And ride is another one of those organizations that has bicycle travel and, commuting and, you know, just getting around by bike and sharing routes. Part of the the mission of their, organization, their company. Yeah. So that's that's that's the heart of it for me and the organization, of course, we do other things or they do other things.

00:04:49:03 - 00:04:55:12
Jennifer Hamelman
It's I'm still in that transition place where it's still we for me, because I, you know, was there for so long.

00:04:55:19 - 00:04:58:15
John Simmerman
You earn that. You earn that for sure. Yeah.

00:04:58:17 - 00:05:00:00
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. And I am a life member.

00:05:00:00 - 00:05:40:23
John Simmerman
So that. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And that's a good thing to point out is that, yeah, this is a, a nonprofit organization, but this is also a membership organization. And part of the benefits that you do get as being a member is you do have access, at a reduced rate, a lot of the resources that are available. And, and you guys are wonderful, wonderful advocacy organization, member organization, that is working hand in hand with a lot of other like minded organizations, including like the Rails to Trails Conservancy and especially and we'll be talking about some of the, you know, the longer routes that are being established.

00:05:40:23 - 00:06:06:06
John Simmerman
And so there's, you know, there's there's a there's a few organizations that are have been doing a lot of heavy lifting over the past few decades. We've had, Bill Esper on from the League, American, bicyclists before lab on, you mentioned the two couples and one of the two couples with the burdens. We had Dan Burden on the channel not too long ago, for, on bike interview.

00:06:06:09 - 00:06:29:29
John Simmerman
So, yeah, just a super, super fun and exciting legacy and a big part of the routes that you guys have put together. And yes, they, they, they really are on these paper maps now. I think there's the digitization process. And you guys are working with other to, to get many of these, into various formats. Is that correct?

00:06:30:01 - 00:06:53:06
Jennifer Hamelman
Well, for a long time we've offered the routes as GPS data for folks, to be able to put on, like their Garmin device, or now you can get apps to go on your phone to take that data. But this past, spring earlier this in this year, we, launched a partnership with ride with GPS, to distribute those routes.

00:06:53:06 - 00:07:38:03
Jennifer Hamelman
And the really remarkable thing for me in that partnership is the platform that ride with GPS offered allowed us to bring forward all of the aspects of the paper maps, whereas the GPS data is just data for the route and the services. But with ride with GPS, they've got a platform within their platform called experiences that allowed us to bring all of the other features of the paper printed maps, which includes some field notes and backstory and writing conditions that tells people, you know, when you're when you're riding a route of over 300 miles, there's always going to be some some place where there's going to be a little bit of a glitch or there's

00:07:38:03 - 00:07:59:19
Jennifer Hamelman
going to be something that a cyclist needs to be aware of in advance, like, you know, park roads that are closed certain hours of the day or particularly high traffic, maybe at particular times of the day on certain sections of the route. So that's information that would be included in the riding conditions. And so being able to include that with the ride with GPS product is really important.

00:07:59:21 - 00:08:36:25
Jennifer Hamelman
And so that's, you know, part of what was important to us in creating that partnership was being able to give the full experience of the paper maps in a digital format. And then, of course, you know, the the ability to be able to, play with the routes a little bit because it's pretty rare that anybody will ride a 3000 mile route from start to finish, following exactly every mile someone is, you know, Aunt Jane lives 40 miles off my route, so of course I'm going to find a way to go see Aunt Jane while I'm on this big trip.

00:08:36:25 - 00:08:48:15
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Of course. So that takes that takes me off route and then back on route. And so we try to give, you know, the, the ability to, to have that flexibility through that ride with GPS product.

00:08:48:18 - 00:09:00:03
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it, and we're, we're zoned in on, the Portland and and we didn't mention that, but yeah, you're not up in Missoula, Montana anymore. You're actually now these days. Yeah.

00:09:00:06 - 00:09:09:14
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. Yeah, I actually live in Beaverton there. Right on the map. So it's a yeah, it's a metro area of Portland. So yeah, my family is here.

00:09:09:17 - 00:09:29:12
John Simmerman
And that really does make it a rich experience to have, these maps and these experiences in, yeah, in association and in partnership with the ride with GPS. And I know that this was a long time coming. Were you involved with that process of trying to make this a reality?

00:09:29:14 - 00:09:59:01
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, yeah. I, I was intimately involved in that process of working with. Right, with GPS, you know, the figuring out how it was going to work, how our data mapped to user pan, I guess, mapped to their product so that we could present things effectively for our users. And, you know, I had a marvelous team that just really churned out all of that data.

00:09:59:04 - 00:10:22:27
Jennifer Hamelman
I mean, over 50,000 miles of mapped route needed to get put into this system. And my team was amazing in how we just churned through all of the issues that come up in that process, because there's always going to be something that's what technology, that's just the way the nature of technology, right? You're going to run into things that, that are out of your norm.

00:10:22:27 - 00:10:49:27
Jennifer Hamelman
And so you have to figure out how do you, manage that in this situation, and how often are we going to have to manage that? And, so yeah, it was definitely a process. And, it's pretty exciting to see. And the other, the other, really beautiful thing of partnering with, right, with GPS is, as you said, you know, this this is an international audience of bicycle travel.

00:10:49:27 - 00:11:14:05
Jennifer Hamelman
And so for folks using ride with GPS, they can now discover adventure cycling and our adventure cycling route network via ride with GPS, which is, a new avenue for for the organization to to reach out to people and to create that community. Because it's definitely about more than just the maps and the routes, but it's, it's a, it's a community building experience for sure.

00:11:14:07 - 00:11:27:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sort of zoom zooming in and honing in on. Yeah, a route and a trip that you did relatively recently or I don't know. When was that trip? Was it relatively recently?

00:11:27:26 - 00:11:54:26
Jennifer Hamelman
It was in 2017. It took a long time for the. Yeah, yeah, it took a long time for the long distance. Bug to to get me some some folks come to the organization having already done long distance bicycle travel. And I had only done really supported kinds of trips. Yeah. And at the 40th anniversary, I got really inspired by all the people who showed up to celebrate with the organization.

00:11:54:28 - 00:12:12:01
Jennifer Hamelman
And before I even realized that out of my mouth came the words, I'm going to do a big trip. And then I turned and looked over my shoulder, and one of our board members was standing right there, and I went, oh my, just want to make sure I do this big trip. And you sure enough, did.

00:12:12:03 - 00:12:35:13
John Simmerman
Yeah, that's that's funny too, because I was going to say it's funny too, because when I asked Jim, Jim Sayer was the former executive director for some time. He retired a few years ago. But when he started doing getting out on the road and doing that, I asked him, I said, Jim, why? Why now? And he's like, I've been like a part of this organization.

00:12:35:13 - 00:12:52:25
John Simmerman
You know, I've been living in Missoula, Montana and round brushing shoulders with this organization for so many years. But I haven't done any of these real trips myself. And so he caught the bug. He started doing them, and now I think he might be kind of addicted to them. But,

00:12:52:27 - 00:12:53:28
Jennifer Hamelman
I think so. Yeah.

00:12:53:28 - 00:13:23:25
John Simmerman
So I get what you mean by, you know, it's it took a while for that to to that bug to bite you in and get out there on the road doing these. Now, you mentioned some supported trips. So before we dive into this trip, talk a little bit about that too, because that's one of the products that the organization does offer is being able to not only just have the the network and the maps and now with the ride with GPS, but you also have, supported adventures as well.

00:13:23:27 - 00:13:48:27
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Right. Yeah. And actually, yeah. So our tours department offers a number of different tours every year. And the support on those tours actually really varies. Now we have everything from events where, you know, they your gear is carried, meals are prepared for you, there's lunch stops. All of that stuff is handled. Pretty much all you do is ride and, take care of your tent.

00:13:48:29 - 00:14:17:06
Jennifer Hamelman
Those are those are your big. Those are your big things you worry about all day. All the way to the very other end where we do, offer self-contained trips where you have about, 12 to 14 people come together. You get a leader, the maps or digital navigation and some group gear. And so everybody, cooks together, you cook meals together, you grocery shop together, you camp, you know, together, and you campgrounds.

00:14:17:09 - 00:14:38:17
Jennifer Hamelman
And those are typically, longer trips from, 20 days to up to 90 days to get all the way across country on our Trans America trail route, which I failed to mention in the introduction that that's the flagship route is the Trans America Trail, or the Trans Am, as we call it. And it goes from Astoria, Oregon to, Yorktown, Virginia.

00:14:38:20 - 00:15:03:09
Jennifer Hamelman
And it's, about 4000 miles to get across the country. So it's definitely no adventure cycling route can ever be accused of being the most direct route between, between points, because that is definitely not the goal. It's not the goal to be efficient. It's to be, you know, taking in the sights and, the most, appropriate infrastructure as possible.

00:15:03:11 - 00:15:25:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. Well, let's let's do this. Let's pop back over to the start of your trip. Since we teased it, we want to make sure that we, we give this adventure, from 2017. It's due time. And so. Yeah. So here you are. You're, you know, at, route one. What state are we in?

00:15:25:03 - 00:15:50:00
Jennifer Hamelman
We are in Maine. So the goal of this trip was to go, essentially Portland, or Portland to Seattle. The long way is what I called it. So I started in Cape Elizabeth, Maine, and the goal was to get all the way to Seattle. Unfortunately, I don't know if you remember, but 2017 was one of the really bad fire years.

00:15:50:03 - 00:16:10:26
Jennifer Hamelman
Eastern Washington and Idaho were just on fire. So I ended up ending my trip in Minnesota because at that point in time, I was getting on a train because I didn't have enough time to ride the whole thing. So I was going to take a train across the Dakotas, and then, pick it back up in Washington state.

00:16:10:28 - 00:16:35:00
Jennifer Hamelman
And so the Dakotas in Montana and I, I decided I was going to just call it because trying to ride in that smoke and I just didn't want I just didn't want to deal with it. And I had accomplished everything I had wanted to accomplish when I set out on the trip. So but starting in Maine was really cool because we actually have, a US bicycle route in Maine.

00:16:35:00 - 00:17:06:00
Jennifer Hamelman
So let's do SB1 and see the green sign therefore. And that's one of the programs in the organization where we work with and are the technical advisors to state Dot across the country. So the goal of the USBs, which is what we call it shorthand, is to have a and essentially an interstate interstate bicycle travel network. And these routes are designated on a state by state basis, and it has to go through the state.

00:17:06:00 - 00:17:35:24
Jennifer Hamelman
Dot. There's a process, an application match, agreements that get created. We work with advocates and small community groups and as well as the Dot and other regional agencies that, may own the pavement. That's the important part, is we have to figure out who owns the route that the that, we're going to use and, get their agreement that it's okay to be part of this system.

00:17:35:27 - 00:18:01:07
Jennifer Hamelman
And the sort of beautiful thing about the system is that there's absolutely no, no car. It takes some staff time. That definitely is a cost, but it's, signage is not required, although it's a lovely bonus, to be able to navigate from sign to sign, but it's not required there. There's actually no cash outlay for creating a USBs route.

00:18:01:09 - 00:18:26:06
Jennifer Hamelman
And so the map that you have shown here is the corridor plan. And so all of those dark lines are the miles that have been designated, currently there's over 23,000 miles across the U.S. so we're almost halfway to the stated goal of 50,000 miles. And then there's some lighter colored lines and those represent potential USBs route.

00:18:26:09 - 00:18:50:12
Jennifer Hamelman
So they're they're sort of in a corridor. They're not necessarily aligned with specific infrastructure, but they're a place where a route could go and many of these routes are actually, at least loosely based on adventure cycling routes. If you were to interpose the two, the two maps together, you would see that they are very close in a lot of places.

00:18:50:14 - 00:19:13:29
Jennifer Hamelman
But oftentimes the USBs routes will differ from an adventure cycling route because of that whole agreement process. It may be that, you know, a jurisdiction who owns the the roadway that they want to designate the route on. They actually would prefer that it be on a different road for whatever reason. And so, that'll cause them to not be in alignment with each other.

00:19:13:29 - 00:19:51:13
John Simmerman
Right, right, right. Fantastic. What's interesting, too, is when we look at some of these, you know, maps of the, the different, systems, let's pull up the interactive map here and we and we take a look at this. And when I look at the, the, the interactive maps and when I look at, these types of systems that you all have been involved with, you know, putting together it reminds me of the Euro velo, routing system, that, that European Cyclist Federation has, has put together over the years.

00:19:51:13 - 00:20:14:24
John Simmerman
And a couple of years ago, I had, the outgoing CEO, Jill. Jill Warren on, to talk about the Euro Velo and all of that. I mean, a lot of people might be surprised to learn that there even exists, you know, some of these routes and systems and some of them formalized within state dots and some not.

00:20:14:26 - 00:20:34:03
John Simmerman
This is really cool to think that especially in a country, is is vast and wide open, as the United States, that we actually could reasonably is just a normal person who wants to go out for a ride, maybe a long ride, be able to take advantage of these routes.

00:20:34:06 - 00:21:17:19
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Right. Yeah. And definitely the U.S press in some ways was patterned after the idea of Euro Velo. And, past staff worked with folks in Europe, different countries around how they established those routes. And the, the, signage and way marking and, and, and tourism aspects and economic aspects. So definitely that was always there was always sort of, an unspoken goal is that we wanted to build the USBs to be as robust and is easy to use as the Euro Falo, network.

00:21:17:22 - 00:21:43:27
John Simmerman
And one of the fabulous things that I have noticed in all my years of traveling in Europe and, I tend to travel by train and Brompton bicycle. But when once I'm in established in a city and I'm zipping around and filming throughout the city, on my my Brompton bicycle, I will also ride from city to city to city on these wonderful established pathways.

00:21:44:00 - 00:22:11:21
John Simmerman
Oftentimes they're along canals or through the countryside, and making those connections. So I have choice. I have mobility choice. I can choose to get on the train to get from city to city, or I can ride from city to city. And so although I've never done sort of like bike camping and set up with like a two touring setup like this, where I've got my own accommodations and my tent and all of that, and the ability to cook my own food, blah, blah, blah.

00:22:11:23 - 00:22:39:13
John Simmerman
I have traveled from city to city, you know, via Brompton with literally all my luggage, as I'm transferring from one city to the next. I could have easily taken the train, but I choose to use the Brompton. And so I think that's really a wonderful opportunity for us to realize that in North America, we can establish safe and inviting all ages and abilities, cycled network facilities that can can connect village to village.

00:22:39:16 - 00:23:05:26
John Simmerman
And one of the great things that we have, the opportunity to do is enhance some of these small villages and small towns that may or may be on economic tough times and be able to instill a fair amount of vibrancy and vitality to them by having a bunch of folks that you know, are, you know, wanting to ride through and spend money in their community.

00:23:05:29 - 00:23:38:24
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that is definitely something that we that was really inspiring to me about the work of bicycle travel and adventure cycling, and that's like that economic piece that kind of comes as a quote unquote, fringe benefit of, of the of bicycle travel and the published maps and the published routes. You know, you can drive easily, drive or take a train 200 miles and there's an opportunity to spend money at the beginning and end at the end, but not much in between.

00:23:38:24 - 00:23:58:03
Jennifer Hamelman
But if you're riding a bike over 200 miles, that's going to take you three, 4 or 5 days, depending on, you know, circumstances, and you're going to need to eat along the way because food is fuel for a cyclist. You're going to need some place to stay. You may just need to hang out someplace for a little while.

00:23:58:03 - 00:24:28:06
Jennifer Hamelman
So we include things like libraries on the map, which libraries were, a great resource for me because it rained, a lot on my Bluebird sky day was not something I experienced often in the first three weeks of my trip. Right. So, you know, it's really it's really impressive, I guess, to think about the actual power of bicycle travel, because a lot of the routes from adventure cycling go through really rural communities.

00:24:28:08 - 00:24:58:02
Jennifer Hamelman
And those sales that the mom and pop grocery store gets from the ten cyclists that come through, in a you know, in a weeks period or whatever can really make a difference at the, to their bottom line. And, that's something that people oftentimes don't think about is that, that impact, that ripples out from one person riding their bike a long distance.

00:24:58:02 - 00:25:21:14
Jennifer Hamelman
They actually leave in their wake. A nice little financial bonus for folks. And the people who own those businesses oftentimes get really excited and want to do things to support. Like you know, they'll have rags out or a pump or, you know, they'll have the a selection of tubes that they keep behind the counter, for flat tires.

00:25:21:14 - 00:25:38:09
Jennifer Hamelman
And, you know, snack bars and ice cream and, you know, they just, and some of them actually keep ledgers so you can, you know, sign in and, and that's, you know, very exciting. Sort of community building as well. You can see who came before you. Yeah.

00:25:38:12 - 00:25:58:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. I had, Heidi Byerly on to talk about her experience riding across the country. And of course, she, not only did she write a book about her experience and all that, but while she was going across that was part of the the angle that she was looking at was, yeah, that economic impact on these small businesses.

00:25:58:06 - 00:26:15:16
John Simmerman
And she was carrying around some of the adventures cycling, stickers. What is it, a, route friendly business or what was the sticker that the adventure cycling, businesses that, they put in their window to say that we're welcoming to you bicycle tours.

00:26:15:18 - 00:26:19:18
Jennifer Hamelman
Essentially. I think they were they were decals for the trans American trail route.

00:26:19:18 - 00:26:21:29
John Simmerman
Yeah, exactly. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:26:21:29 - 00:26:24:02
Jennifer Hamelman
We were there a number of years ago on that. That was.

00:26:24:02 - 00:26:46:03
John Simmerman
Really. Yeah, it was, it was a few. It was a few years ago. Now we're posed we're sort of hanging out here on this particular, main shot from the beginning of your trip, but I want to zoom in because I want to focus in on this combination of signs here. You you already addressed the the USB, the USB, b r s what is that?

00:26:46:03 - 00:27:18:24
John Simmerman
What is your space? Yeah. Okay. But there's also another sign on here, and it is the East Coast Greenway. And we've featured the East Coast Greenway here on the channel before, introduced the East Coast Greenway. And and the fact that there are overlapping. And that's a good part about the beauty of some of these routes that are out there is oftentimes you're overlapping and they become co-branded, because there's other institutions and organizations that are curating some of these routes.

00:27:18:27 - 00:27:46:14
Jennifer Hamelman
Sure, sure. So adventure cycling routes, when they're created, we can route a route on anything that it's legal to ride a bicycle on. And so we take advantage of any and all kinds of infrastructure. The East Coast Greenway is based on the idea of that of wanting a route that goes north to south from border to border, essentially, and but their goal is to have it all be on separated pathways.

00:27:46:16 - 00:28:19:04
Jennifer Hamelman
So it gives you more of that 8 to 80 experience where families and, riders of all abilities can take advantage of that system quite easily, whereas an adventure cycling route. There are we are building more routes and creating more routes that are more beginner friendly. But it oftentimes these longer distance routes require somebody to have, you know, a little bit of, a little bit more experience of, of a cyclist to be on their routes because we do use such, varied infrastructure.

00:28:19:06 - 00:28:53:25
Jennifer Hamelman
And what's really exciting for me about the East Coast greenways that another program and adventure cycling is called Short Route, which is, community generated routes that are anywhere from, I think it's 25 to 250 miles. And, we just we share those via the ride with GPS platform, but we actually partnered with, East Coast Greenway, I think it's been about a year ago now so that they could feature sections of the East Coast Greenway that they really think are prominent and, very easily accessible.

00:28:53:25 - 00:29:17:18
Jennifer Hamelman
The pieces that are, that are there complete and tell a really great story. And so we worked with them to to highlight some of those routes on our short routes program. And so those routes become more accessible to more people and again, to grow the community. And it was really fun to partner with them. And, you know, we did a webinar and did joint press releases and things.

00:29:17:18 - 00:29:25:10
Jennifer Hamelman
And, my understanding is that they wanted they want to feature more routes on the short route system. As well. So yeah.

00:29:25:17 - 00:29:39:29
John Simmerman
And we're zooming in on the East Coast, which is part of, of course, the East Coast Greenway system. And so, yeah, speaking of that, there are some of the, the different short routes, and the short routes have a different color coding to them. So yeah. See that works.

00:29:40:01 - 00:29:41:05
Jennifer Hamelman
That's right. Right.

00:29:41:07 - 00:30:03:27
John Simmerman
How much. Yeah. It's so much fun because yeah I mean it's a great a great way to get your intro into maybe doing a larger distance thing is to take advantage of the shorter routes and get, oh, well, you know, and shorter is all relative because everybody you know, to, to one person a short route is, you know, 200 miles, as you mentioned earlier.

00:30:03:27 - 00:30:09:03
John Simmerman
And for another person, the short route is, you know, that that first 10 or 20 miles.

00:30:09:05 - 00:30:22:00
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Right. Yeah. And that's the really the whole idea of the short race is to make it more accessible, no matter where you're at in your cycling journey. Right. Yeah. So.

00:30:22:02 - 00:30:46:24
John Simmerman
So the experience that you have when you're out on the road, you know, we'll get back to our shot here in in Maine. Talk a little bit about that experience because that's to me, one of the great stories that kind of bubbles up out of these longer distance trips and, and, for, for the listening only audience. Once you describe, what's on screen here.

00:30:46:26 - 00:31:12:02
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. So it's a sign that I encountered at one of the first campgrounds I stayed at, and it says believe there is good in the world. And then the way it's arranged, they have highlighted also to be the good and, that is both of those sentiments definitely reflect my experience and the experience of the folks who come through the Adventure Cycling office every summer.

00:31:12:04 - 00:31:48:29
Jennifer Hamelman
That I'm getting to meet people face to face and talk to them 1 to 1. I came to believe deeply that most people, most of the time, want to do the good or right thing. They want to be helpful and that was I had no idea how unbelievably important that would be for me going forward. To have that stand that most people, most of the time want to do the right thing and the people along these routes, they understand that as well.

00:31:49:01 - 00:32:08:26
Jennifer Hamelman
You know, I had people offer me coffee in the morning at campgrounds, you know, and, water at, you know, I'd stop at a convenience store and people would hand me bottles of water. That was a piece of advice I was given, actually, when I left was, even if you don't need it, if somebody offers do something, take it and say thank you.

00:32:08:26 - 00:32:30:07
Jennifer Hamelman
It will make their day and yours. And so I did that a number of times. You know, I like there were a couple of times when I would treat myself to a hot breakfast in a restaurant, you know, a few miles down the road, and I would go to pay my bill and my server would say, well, actually, the gentleman sitting over in that corner on his way out paid your bill.

00:32:30:07 - 00:32:44:11
Jennifer Hamelman
And so, I mean, it was those kinds of things happened, I wouldn't say every day, but they happened regularly enough that it was it was a really lovely boost, and it felt good to be seen and recognized in those ways.

00:32:44:13 - 00:33:12:10
John Simmerman
And I think it's a super good reminder in today's reality of such division in, in, in our world and in politics and all of this, you know, Ryan Van Duzer, who of course, has his wonderful, channel, the Doozer Channel, he travels all over the world. And one of the things that themes that he continually harped on is just how good there, how much good there is out there in the world.

00:33:12:10 - 00:33:38:21
John Simmerman
And, and he'll be riding in countries where if you believe the news media, you think, how did you survive? Or why weren't you murdered? Multiple times over? And, you know, and he tries to really emphasize that no matter if you're riding, you know, cross-country in, in a foreign land or here in the United States, you will run across people from all different walks of life.

00:33:38:23 - 00:34:04:28
John Simmerman
And if you are open to it, you'll find that there's plenty of things in common that you can connect with. And and the great thing about a, a bike and, traveling at human speed and, and and being rather conspicuous with your bike and all your gear and all that. Yeah. At a restaurant or whatever, is that. It's you're able to connect to the human level.

00:34:04:28 - 00:34:36:20
John Simmerman
And I think that that's so incredibly important in today's day and age. You know, in our world now, where, you know, over the last 120 years of being car centric and car dominated, you know, we we tend to seal ourselves in these hermetically sealed metal boxes on wheels and that disconnects us from other people. So being able to, you know, walk and bike to meaningful destinations and places, closer to human speeds, we are able to make more connections.

00:34:36:20 - 00:34:38:27
John Simmerman
And I think that's really, really important.

00:34:39:00 - 00:35:13:23
Jennifer Hamelman
Definitely, definitely. And, you know, I had talked to enough people who had done these big trips that, I wasn't overly concerned about my safety doing this by myself. Because I did do the trip, most of it by myself. And I had friends and family who were very concerned about me and my safety because they hadn't experienced bicycle travel before, and they didn't understand that sense of how it can be person, the person and, you know, the vulnerability that you bring by traveling by bicycle and the goodness that that can bring out in other people.

00:35:13:25 - 00:35:35:21
Jennifer Hamelman
Yes. This was one of my rainy days, I believe I was entering, Vermont there. Yeah. That I got very friendly with my rain jacket. It barely ever dried out. I swear, for, like, the first three weeks, it rained every single day for some part of the day. I woke up several times with in puddles around my tent, but thankfully not inside.

00:35:35:21 - 00:35:37:21
Jennifer Hamelman
So that was good. Yeah, yeah.

00:35:37:21 - 00:35:39:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, I zoom back just a little bit. Yeah.

00:35:39:17 - 00:35:43:01
Jennifer Hamelman
It's new. We're in New Hampshire. Yeah, yeah, I think I have a similar picture of Vermont.

00:35:43:01 - 00:36:06:22
John Simmerman
So Vermont too. Yeah. Like you said it, it rained a lot. Well, and I'm glad we have this opportunity to talk a little bit about rain and a little bit about being out in the elements. And it's a good reminder for us humans that we have become addicted to comfort. And it's also a good reminder that, contrary to popular belief, we don't dissolve, we don't melt.

00:36:06:22 - 00:36:24:19
John Simmerman
And when exposed to water, just imagine every time you shower you, you don't magically disappear. And so if we get a little bit wet, I mean, the Dutch have a saying. Is it like there is no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing? And so, yes, invest in a nice rain jacket, etc. and if you do get a little damp, guess what?

00:36:24:19 - 00:36:47:24
John Simmerman
You'll you'll dry out. And you know, having the ability to be pragmatic and safe, you know, being able to know where to go like a library, like you mentioned earlier of, you know, if it does get really, really bad and dangerously bad, don't don't ride in a lightning storm. People, you know, don't be stupid, you know, take care of yourself, but you're not going to melt.

00:36:47:24 - 00:36:48:28
John Simmerman
Don't worry.

00:36:49:00 - 00:37:19:06
Jennifer Hamelman
Yep yep yep. Keep going. You'll stay warm. Yeah. So this can a mangas pass? I had to include this photo because this was the worst, best, hardest day of my trip. This is one of the iconic passes that cyclists in the region that they, they have to do it. And, it came fairly early in my trip, so I wasn't, I didn't have my sea legs, perhaps fully under me.

00:37:19:08 - 00:37:41:04
Jennifer Hamelman
It happened to be a really unseasonably warm day. I think it got up to 90 degrees that day. And I did think I was going to melt along the side of the road. And it's one of my best memories, even though, I mean, it was a super hard day. I actually was sharing the road all that day.

00:37:41:04 - 00:38:03:28
Jennifer Hamelman
It was the last day of, in New Hampshire. They called, Bikers Month, but it wasn't cyclists. It was motorcycles. So I was tracked by, folks riding Harleys all day long. And some of them were really quite supportive, and they would cheer me on as they went by and I struggled to get my pedals around.

00:38:04:00 - 00:38:23:18
Jennifer Hamelman
But yeah, once I when I think about it now, I mean, you look at that 2855ft that that's not that. I mean, the Rockies come on. The Rockies are way bigger than that. But this was intense because they're short, steep, repeating climbs. Now, you would climb up a short bit, then you go down, you got to climb up a short bit and you go to.

00:38:23:19 - 00:38:31:08
Jennifer Hamelman
And it was it was brutal. And I'm quite proud of myself for having made it all the way to the top.

00:38:31:10 - 00:38:35:27
John Simmerman
So in 2017, were you living in, Montana at that time?

00:38:36:00 - 00:38:36:29
Jennifer Hamelman
I was.

00:38:37:01 - 00:38:43:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. So you had. So you had a little bit of altitude because Missoula is, what, 5000ft or so?

00:38:43:10 - 00:38:44:28
Jennifer Hamelman
I think it's around 3500.

00:38:45:05 - 00:39:14:12
John Simmerman
Okay, okay, so it's a little lower than Boulder, but, you know, still at elevation there. And so, you know what it's like to climb mountains. But at the same time it's different when you're out there, you've got all your gear and you're several days in and you're tired and you don't necessarily have your climbing legs yet, but something that you said there is really, really important worth, highlighting is that difficult things, these tough days make the memory that much sweeter.

00:39:14:14 - 00:39:35:08
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Right. For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, it was and, you know, I made it through on my own grit. And at the same time I, I was near the top and I just was I felt like I was about to just bonk. And I reached out and try and I called a friend where I'd had really spotty cell coverage all day.

00:39:35:11 - 00:39:58:26
Jennifer Hamelman
She was actually also in a spotty coverage area, so I shouldn't have been able to reach her, but I did. And that five minute conversation that we had got made that last quarter of a mile to the top of the pass. So, I mean, there's absolutely nothing wrong also with reaching out and asking for a little support when you need it in those tough times, too.

00:39:58:28 - 00:40:27:22
John Simmerman
I think that's a really good thing to to hone in on is, you know, have that lifeline, you know, that you can, you know, dial a friend and be able to get that, you know, encouraging voice and have that. Before we talk a little bit about this particular sign, in fact, let's go backwards and you know, to, to this image and, and, and I'll pose this because earlier you had mentioned, you know, you did this solo, you went out as a single female out there riding.

00:40:27:25 - 00:40:59:13
John Simmerman
Heidi and I had this conversation because she talks about it in the book, too, about how, you know, people would say, you're doing what? Aren't you afraid? You know, what about the danger? Dive a little deeper into that in terms of, of a, you know, the things that you did which were pragmatic, that, you know, made you feel like, okay, don't do anything stupid, but at the same time, you know, a yes, a single, you know, female powerful female can do this.

00:40:59:13 - 00:41:07:29
John Simmerman
You know, you don't have to feel like, oh, you have to have an entourage around you to be safe in the, in the, you know, the world.

00:41:08:02 - 00:41:30:19
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it takes, for me, I needed to do a little bit of practicing. So I did a couple of bike overnights locally. Practice, made sure I knew how my still worked. And, because I carry the stove, I cooked my own food most of the time. I knew how my tent worked. I knew I had my gear was all in good shape.

00:41:30:21 - 00:41:51:19
Jennifer Hamelman
I knew the basics of how my bicycle worked, and I had a handful of tools that I didn't necessarily know how they worked, but I knew they went with my bike and I just needed to find somebody who did know how they worked. Because I did a route that is called the Northern Tier Route, and there's other cyclists who are doing the route, so there's always going to be other people along the way that you're going to run into.

00:41:51:21 - 00:42:19:02
Jennifer Hamelman
I had people asking me if I was going to pack, you know, if I was going to bring a firearm. And I was like, absolutely no way. And really, for me, it boiled down to self-awareness, keeping track of making sure I had enough to eat and drink every day, knowing where I was intending to end up. At the end of the day, having other people know what what my plan was so that, I could check in with them and they could check in with me.

00:42:19:02 - 00:42:48:01
Jennifer Hamelman
So, you know, we always sort of knew where things were. And really, that was enough. There was only one day, one incident that I ever felt, unsafe, creeped out, uncomfortable. And I was aware of it. I saw it happening, and I knew what I needed to do to get myself out of the situation. And it may not have even been a real thing, but it was enough.

00:42:48:03 - 00:43:06:14
Jennifer Hamelman
It caught that, it caught my attention, and I decided I was supposed to stay in this one particular town and there was somebody who drove by me, who gave me a look behind his mirrored sunglasses, and I just was like, I'm not. I don't think I'm going to sleep well. If I stay here tonight. So I pulled out my map.

00:43:06:14 - 00:43:24:23
Jennifer Hamelman
I looked ahead, there was no place to stay in a reasonably close distance, so that was a little bit frightening. But I saw that there was one of those libraries ahead of me, so I ran. I got myself to the library quickly before they closed, and they got on the phone and helped me find a place to stay that night.

00:43:24:23 - 00:43:53:22
Jennifer Hamelman
I ended up staying in the home of a United Methodist, pastor and his wife, and we had a lovely evening. And I felt perfectly, you know, safe doing that. But really, it's a it's about self awareness, you know, of the situation, watching how things develop or don't develop. Yeah. And then for me, anybody who knows me knows that you want, you want to keep Jen fed you don't let her get you hungry.

00:43:53:24 - 00:44:11:15
Jennifer Hamelman
So, I always made sure I had plenty of things to eat. Yeah. Speaking of which, I had this. Yeah, I had this vision that when I did this trip, I was going to be able to stop it. Produce stands all along the way because, you know, it's part of the farm belt is across the northern tier of our country.

00:44:11:17 - 00:44:32:06
Jennifer Hamelman
And unfortunately, I was a little too early. So, I came I came through in June and July and it just there wasn't a lot being harvested at that point, but there were a few places this was in Vermont. And right before I met up with a friend, actually in Burlington. Yeah. The the people at Smiley's were super nice.

00:44:32:06 - 00:44:52:17
Jennifer Hamelman
They had all these. They actually ended up having a lot of snack foods like, you know, packaged nuts and things. And I stocked up on those things, because they just didn't have a lot of produce. But it was it was, you know, hard to resist taking a photo of this of the sign. And these bright green Smiley's produce wouldn't want to stop there and see what they had on offer.

00:44:52:17 - 00:44:53:09
Jennifer Hamelman
Right?

00:44:53:12 - 00:44:57:05
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. The only thing they're missing is they didn't put a smiley face on there.

00:44:57:05 - 00:45:02:15
Jennifer Hamelman
I know, I know, they needed they need a marketing person.

00:45:02:17 - 00:45:37:24
John Simmerman
So one of the other things and we had talked about this, you know, before about the, you know, that that economic connection of of people who are on these bike tours and going and stopping in at various cafes where, this particular image you're posing out in front of, Muddy Waters Cafe. One of the themes that came up, I can't remember which interview it was, it might have been with Heidi, or it might have been a different, guest on the podcast, but we talked about how, a I think a really important thing is, you know, honing in and leaning into what you had mentioned is that, when you're doing

00:45:37:24 - 00:46:07:13
John Simmerman
a trip like this, you do have that opportunity for multiple stops, you know, like you had mentioned, you know, on a 200 mile stretch, you're going to be popping into a multiple to to different places. And I like to reinforce that you know, hey, even if you don't need it, if you're stopping in at a place, buy something, had that interaction, that opportunity to do this and we would do that, on some of our rides out of Boulder, where, you know, we can do a loop at whatever.

00:46:07:13 - 00:46:37:22
John Simmerman
And we love to stop at this one little, cafe slash market in, in the town of hygiene and and and, like, on a given weekend, probably 200 or 300 cyclists will stop at this place. And, you know, even if you don't need it, it's like, take that opportunity, pop in, get a little something, say hello. That reinforcement of the bike, a nomics of what this means is, is, I think, really, really important.

00:46:37:24 - 00:46:42:22
John Simmerman
Why did you want to share Muddy Waters Cafe? Image with us?

00:46:42:25 - 00:47:01:28
Jennifer Hamelman
So the Muddy Waters Cafe I had learned about from working in the office. So, you know, we hear from cyclists all the time about great experiences. They have places that they stopped and we had people talking about this cafe regularly. It's situated along the Erie Canal. So, and there's a, there's a trail that follows the Erie Canal.

00:47:01:28 - 00:47:27:16
Jennifer Hamelman
It's called the Erie Callaway Trail. And so I was I intentionally wanted to make sure I rode that part of it and got to stop here at Muddy Waters. And what's really unique about riding along the Erie Canal Way Trail is that at all of the locks, where where boats can stop, they also allow cyclists to stop in and camp and so the lock station was that right next door to this cafe.

00:47:27:16 - 00:47:51:18
Jennifer Hamelman
So I was able to stop at the lock station and camp there. They also had laundry, available. You could do, you know, a little mini laundromat sort of thing. And they allowed me to camp, I think it was for free. And so I stopped it and I had breakfast at Muddy Waters for the morning. I was leaving this woman with the owner and her best friend from, I think she was from California, was there and was visiting.

00:47:51:20 - 00:48:17:09
Jennifer Hamelman
And as it turns out, her best friend's daughter lived in Missoula, which is where I was from at the time. So, you know, you just never know where those connections are going to come from when you start talking to people. And yeah, so this this woman was just extremely generous to me. And the mission of adventure cycling, of, you know, inspiring and supporting people to do these big bike trips.

00:48:17:12 - 00:48:21:09
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. It was it was a, it was a it was a great overnight.

00:48:21:11 - 00:48:42:18
John Simmerman
And again and again that reinforces that, that concept that we had talked about earlier about the good and people that are out there. It's like once you're able to start having these conversations and, and, and making human connections, it's like that whole seven degrees of separation. It's like, oh yeah, no, we we, you know, we might even know people in common before.

00:48:42:18 - 00:49:00:18
John Simmerman
In fact, you know, you and I were having that whole thing, you know, so a couple different layers of separation conversation before with the record button. But and that's the beauty of this type of travel, is that when you are traveling closer to human speed, you can have these human interactions.

00:49:00:20 - 00:49:02:23
Jennifer Hamelman
Right? Right. Yeah.

00:49:02:25 - 00:49:06:03
John Simmerman
You can also have interactions with Canadian geese too.

00:49:06:06 - 00:49:29:19
Jennifer Hamelman
Yes, yes. And this was actually at a Canadian campground, oddly enough. Yeah. So this was, the morning I was leaving. This was in Saint Clair, Ontario. Part of the route was, on the north side of Lake Ontario or Lake Erie. And that was one of my favorite sections. The roads there, the traffic was, almost nil.

00:49:29:19 - 00:49:49:06
Jennifer Hamelman
So it felt like I was riding on a bike path much of the time. It was a very, very cool experience. So this was my last day in, in Canada, because there's a river there at the border. So I was coming back from brushing my teeth, and I just, I couldn't resist. I had to capture this. The sunlight, turned glinting off of things of my campsite from the night before.

00:49:49:08 - 00:50:09:12
Jennifer Hamelman
And then I went and rode to a little ferry station, and we entered the US in Michigan, where I think the next slide or the next photo is, there was another US BRC route. It was US 20, which is one of, I got to ride that all the way across the state of Michigan. That one is, really well developed.

00:50:09:12 - 00:50:23:18
Jennifer Hamelman
It's been around for quite some time. It's well signed. I think this is Marine City and, Yeah. So it was it was a lovely, lovely, arrival that morning into, Marine City.

00:50:23:21 - 00:50:27:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's Marine City and into Michigan.

00:50:27:20 - 00:50:34:05
Jennifer Hamelman
Yes. Yeah. So this, this is in Frankenmuth. Frankenmuth? I'm not sure exactly how you pronounce it.

00:50:34:05 - 00:50:35:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Frankenmuth. Yeah.

00:50:35:13 - 00:51:08:24
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, yeah. Frankenmuth. It's a very touristy, very cool town. And I was looking for a cup of coffee. I ended up going into this New Orleans themed cafe, and that this man was running and had the hot one of the business, and they make their hot donuts things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was that was heaven. And he was just completely enthralled with the fact that I was carrying all this gear, and, he just he found it to be astounding, and,

00:51:08:27 - 00:51:28:09
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. So it was it was really cool. And he reminded me of, my deli philosopher that I used to run into. There's, like, there's a cafe or a deli right across the street from adventure cycling offices, and there's a gentleman who works in there that, you know, would always, you know, if I was having a bad day or I had a question about life or something, I would go and visit Mark.

00:51:28:11 - 00:51:35:29
Jennifer Hamelman
And so this gentleman really reminded me of Mark, and that was it was a sort of a touchstone from home thousands of miles away.

00:51:36:01 - 00:51:43:13
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it. There's so great. Yeah. The wide open spaces.

00:51:43:15 - 00:51:53:16
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. Now this is and this is actually in Wisconsin. And that white farmhouse you see in the distance was a warm showers location that I stayed at. Showers.

00:51:53:16 - 00:51:58:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Explain more about one. Yeah. Talk about warm showers. Yeah. Great organization.

00:51:58:28 - 00:52:22:27
Jennifer Hamelman
Showers is a really fabulous organization. It's it's, if you've heard of it's similar to couchsurfing, but it's very much focused on the bicycle travel community. So folks open their homes for, bicycle travelers to come through and get a warm shower. Have a place to pitch their tent and, you know, lay out their sleeping bag.

00:52:23:00 - 00:52:46:23
Jennifer Hamelman
And there are thousands of these hosts all across the country. Warm showers is also another nonprofit organization. And, you know, really the thing they ask is that if you have used a warm shower host that after you get home, you become a host yourself and offer up. And so it's another one of those opportunities to meet people face to face, right.

00:52:46:23 - 00:53:07:22
Jennifer Hamelman
And get that injection and reminder of, the humans that live in this country. Yeah. And so I did I did, stay at warm shower several times, I think maybe 4 or 5 times along my, along my trip. It sometimes can be a little challenging if you don't know exactly where you're going to end up, you know, in a certain time.

00:53:07:24 - 00:53:29:02
Jennifer Hamelman
But the hosts are also typically used to that, that, you know, bicycle travelers can, you know, their schedule can get off a little bit sometimes. But it was it was really a wonderful, opportunity. These folks, were really politically active. And so it was fun to have some, some deep conversations around things that were happening at the time.

00:53:29:02 - 00:53:48:17
Jennifer Hamelman
But it was it was as an introvert, I think that was probably why I only did it a handful of times, because at the end of the day, oftentimes I just was tired. And so to actually interact with other people took, you know, another level of, of energy that sometimes I just didn't have. But I was really grateful for the ones that I did do.

00:53:48:17 - 00:53:51:09
Jennifer Hamelman
And these folks in particular were wonderful.

00:53:51:11 - 00:54:21:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I also had the opportunity to, interview Sarah Dykeman, who, did, a wonderful trip where she was following the migration pattern of the monarch butterflies. Yeah. And, and we talked about that. Yeah. Fantastic book and, fantastic interview. And she talked about the fact that, yeah, you these you don't necessarily always have the energy to want to be able to like, connect with other people.

00:54:21:10 - 00:54:53:29
John Simmerman
But at the same time, being open to, you know, popping into a warm showers and, and connect with, with people who are gracious enough to open up their homes to, you know, these weary travelers that are it's, you know, even though you may not have that much energy yet or have or inclined to be, you know, more, less of an extrovert, like I, you kind of want to just kind of, I'm just going to go stay at my tent.

00:54:54:01 - 00:55:05:15
John Simmerman
You almost always have a good experience, to the point where you're glad you made that connection. And speaking of connections, here we go. Adventure cyclist bunkhouse. What's the story behind this one?

00:55:05:18 - 00:55:26:13
Jennifer Hamelman
So the gentleman standing behind me was another one of those legends that I had been hearing about in the office for years. His name is Don Olson. He's a retired dairy farmer. And, I think it was back in like 2014 or so, these there was a bunch of construction going on on the road. The road construction out in front of his home.

00:55:26:15 - 00:55:42:23
Jennifer Hamelman
And there were these cyclists who were riding on the Northern Tier route, the same route that I was riding, and they had stopped in front of his home. And they were, you know, referring to this map, and they had this conversation going on. And so Don, being the curious man that he is, came out and said, so you know, what's going on, how can I help you?

00:55:42:26 - 00:56:02:19
Jennifer Hamelman
And so they they introduced him to adventure cycling and the fact they were, you know, looking for a place to stay. And suddenly this road construction was causing them this problem and stuff. And he's like, well, I have this dairy barn. You're welcome to, you know, throw out your sleeping bag and, and sleep here tonight. And so I said, great, thanks.

00:56:02:22 - 00:56:24:26
Jennifer Hamelman
And then, you know, we started seeing more cyclists coming through. I mean, you see one and then all of a sudden you see all of the others. And it's kind of like buying a blue car. All of a sudden all the cars are blue, right? Because it's on it's on your it's on your radar. And so he actually took his dairy barn and converted it into a bunkhouse for cyclists.

00:56:24:28 - 00:56:48:16
Jennifer Hamelman
So I think there's like four different rooms that have 2 to 4 beds in them. There's a kitchen in there. He goes to the, the Walmart down the, you know, a few miles away, buys a bunch of stuff, socks. The kitchen just asks for donations to keep, you know, the stock flowing for people coming through. He's got a solar shower.

00:56:48:23 - 00:57:12:19
Jennifer Hamelman
He's actually got a flush toilet now. I mean, he's been doing this for a long time, and, he's he's a legend. He's definitely a legend on this trip. And so it was a must. I had to I had to, had to have an overnight, and I actually, I think I ended up I guess I just did the one night, this was, I ended up being a rendezvous point for me and some friends that joined me for the last ten.

00:57:12:19 - 00:57:40:16
Jennifer Hamelman
What turned out to be the last ten days of my trip. We rode from Dubbo. You know, west across part of of Minnesota at that point. So. But yeah, he was he was just purely delightful. And, actually, he had a whole cupboard of, you know, coffee mugs that there was a coffee pot there. And so the morning I was there, I was sitting out on the porch drinking my coffee from his little cute double coffee mug.

00:57:40:18 - 00:57:58:02
Jennifer Hamelman
And I said, you know, Don, if I were, if I were an unscrupulous person, I would just take this mug and stick it in my bag. And you, you know, you'd never see it again. And he just looked at me and he goes, if you want it, you can have it. So I did. I took it home and I still have coffee out of it pretty regularly.

00:57:58:02 - 00:58:17:10
Jennifer Hamelman
It's a great little sweet, memento of of the time. And the man, you know, he ended up taking me all over his farm and showing me all the things that he does there. And, but again, it's one of those things. He didn't know anything about bicycle travel. He just totally trusted these people that were being vulnerable on their bicycles.

00:58:17:13 - 00:58:38:24
Jennifer Hamelman
And then he built this, his place for people to land. He it's it's wonderful. And he's known around the world, actually, a friend that I met through and working at a venture cycling, who's from Scotland, did a whole video on on Don and has it posted out there on YouTube. I'm sure somewhere.

00:58:38:24 - 00:58:39:26
John Simmerman
So yeah.

00:58:39:26 - 00:58:41:23
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, it's pretty well.

00:58:41:25 - 00:58:51:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, a good friend, you know, Ryan Van Duzer talks about, you know, this, of the they call them trail angels is that, you know, there's these people.

00:58:51:19 - 00:58:52:07
Jennifer Hamelman
That.

00:58:52:09 - 00:59:06:14
John Simmerman
Are, you know, supporting these, you know, the folks that are on these adventures. And, yeah, they truly are trail angels. Yeah. Good stuff. And, yeah, you can tell we're in Minnesota now.

00:59:06:16 - 00:59:27:15
Jennifer Hamelman
But for sure, the sign shows me the Paul Bunyan Trail and the Heartland Trail. Those are really fabulous trails. I had known about these because at the time, Adventure Cycling was offering, the what they would call, family fun adventures. And so there was a family trip that went, you know, started in, well, I'm going to maybe misspeak.

00:59:27:18 - 00:59:47:29
Jennifer Hamelman
But it went through at least Bemidji, Minnesota, and took in these trail systems. And, you know, I can't I can't wait to go back. I want to do these. I want to do these trails again. What's really cool for me about these particular trails is they are not like sort of your typical rail trail in that they are not necessarily always straight and flat.

00:59:48:02 - 01:00:09:14
Jennifer Hamelman
There's some actually pretty good little climbs on the Hartland State Trail. And they were wonderful because they're, you know, separated from traffic. You have all these trees around you if you go to the right time of year, the fields are just, filled with beautiful wildflowers. And all of the communities along the way know about bicycle travelers and expect them.

01:00:09:14 - 01:00:23:21
Jennifer Hamelman
And again, they're part of the economy counts on these folks coming through and using these trails. And the state does a relatively good job of keeping them maintained. I mean, Minnesota, I think, is one of the best states to ride your bike in.

01:00:23:23 - 01:00:34:01
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's been rated that way. Many times over the years. Yeah. And there's a speaking of Paul Bunyan, your close and personal with Paul.

01:00:34:03 - 01:00:55:28
Jennifer Hamelman
Yes. Yeah. So so that's my that's my good friend Tammy. There we were if you want, if you want to, meet Paul, you can meet him several times along the trail. And they're varying in sizes. And, you know, babe, the Blue Ox and all of all of the things, which makes it, you know, really kind of fun and entertaining.

01:00:56:00 - 01:00:57:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah.

01:00:57:18 - 01:01:00:09
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, you got to capture these photo ops.

01:01:00:11 - 01:01:35:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. What a great experience. And, you know, all these many years later, I mean, obviously that was 2017. And you've had this opportunity to to think a little bit about it. You've had this opportunity to think about your career, your 25 year career in adventure cycling, you know, and this opportunity to to dig up these memories and talk about it, you look close to closes out first, you know, talk a little bit about, you know, these reflections and being able to to think back on, you know, that trip that experience in 2017.

01:01:35:26 - 01:01:50:23
John Simmerman
And then also more broadly, the legacy of the great work that you did, you know, there at the organization, what are the things that bubble up the most for you and that you'd like to share with the audience?

01:01:50:25 - 01:01:54:19
Jennifer Hamelman
Boy, that is that is a lot. Well.

01:01:54:22 - 01:01:59:19
John Simmerman
To take the first and then we'll talk more globally on on the bigger. Yeah.

01:01:59:19 - 01:02:35:00
Jennifer Hamelman
The the trip was definitely I mean, I was personally at a really, pivotal transitional time in my life, and it was really self-confidence building for one to get out there and do it by myself, to have lots of opportunities to reflect and think about what was important for me going forward and my next steps. I mean, bicycle travel is a really wonderful way to have those kinds of opportunities where you're not bombarded by TV and news and all the things, all the time.

01:02:35:00 - 01:03:03:14
Jennifer Hamelman
And so, it really helped me get perspective on life and taking small steps to get a long distance, because you just got to keep going. Right. And that definitely is is a life philosophy of keep going even when it gets hard. You know, the other thing that we didn't actually kind of cover on this, but, I eat a plant based diet.

01:03:03:14 - 01:03:30:02
Jennifer Hamelman
And so that was a bit of a challenge at times on this trip. And, you know, it's easy. It's it's, you don't always eat the most healthy, but there's always a lot of calories out there. I mean, Oreos and Fritos, they are vegan, but, they're not always the healthiest. And it really, helped me to appreciate the life that I have at home and the creature comforts that I get to enjoy at home.

01:03:30:02 - 01:03:52:07
Jennifer Hamelman
You know, when I'm not camping every night or cooking on a small stove, but everything tastes better when cooked in a camp site. I think. I mean, instant coffee and oatmeal are like the height of fine dining on my phone if I can. So yeah, you know, I think, I think the self-confidence that, I could do this.

01:03:52:09 - 01:03:56:29
Jennifer Hamelman
I had what it took to do this was. Yeah.

01:03:57:01 - 01:04:22:00
John Simmerman
So pulling back the aperture a little bit and looking at the, at the career and the, you know, the work that you did, especially in the, in the more recent years of really, preparing and like you said, you we talked a little bit about it with the relationship working hard with the right guy and all that. Any any other final, you know, thoughts of, of that legacy and that, you know, the mark that you've left behind.

01:04:22:02 - 01:04:23:04
John Simmerman
Yeah.

01:04:23:06 - 01:04:45:05
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. I mean, it's pretty incredible when I start, stop and think about it for a minute, because, you know, when you're in it on the day to day, you don't necessarily notice it. And, yeah, I mean, there was a point in time where I had touched and, worked on every single mile of the country's cycling route network.

01:04:45:05 - 01:05:12:24
Jennifer Hamelman
When I started there, there was about 20,000 miles on that network, and now there's over 50,000 miles. And that is, a testament to the strength of and ongoing endurance of the organization and the support that the organization gets from from members who are super excited about bicycle travel. And, you know, I.

01:05:12:27 - 01:05:47:18
Jennifer Hamelman
So I spent a lot of years doing cartography and mapmaking, but then I had the opportunity to shift and work on program management. You know, the USBs, there was a lot of moving parts and pieces and relationships and stakeholders and voices, that needed to be elevated and to be heard and brought to the table. And, I think I'm probably most proud of of those relationships that I built along the way and that I hope I was able to leave for the folks doing the work.

01:05:47:24 - 01:06:13:29
Jennifer Hamelman
Now, now that I that I am not there, I had a really great team. I, I was able to be the director of, of the roots department and oversee the whole all of the program work that we were doing and the root building and the team that I worked with was extraordinary. I think for me, in the end, it all really just it boils down to relationships and connections and those ripple effects.

01:06:13:29 - 01:06:22:07
Jennifer Hamelman
You know, that's sort of the sort of, yeah, those are the things that are most important to me, I think around that experience.

01:06:22:09 - 01:06:44:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, and and folks who are tuning in, if you're in North America here and, and you're like, oh, wow, I wonder if there's anything anywhere near me. Hey, pop on over to the site. You know, like I said, you've, you've you've probably been involved with, with pretty much all of these. We have one right here in Austin, right here in the country.

01:06:44:13 - 01:07:04:11
John Simmerman
We've got the Texas Hill Country Loop, you can see. Yeah, Austin's a part of it. I could literally, you know, out, out my door. I can hit the road and go out and experience one of these things. And and how cool is it to be able to have that opportunity to go out and experience, make those human connections with the people along the way?

01:07:04:14 - 01:07:13:01
John Simmerman
So my final question for you is you're no longer with the organization now. What's next for Jennifer for you to do?

01:07:13:03 - 01:07:58:17
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. Well, I sort of touched the moment ago on on my, my food interest. I'm really interested in, in working in food justice and feeding people. That's, that's sort of that's my personal passion. And I really want to bring that into my work at this point. And sort of the through line that I see from the work I did, adventure cycling to this work is again about connections and overlapping missions and the ripple effects of of food and of feeding people, you know, programs that bring local farm produce to our school systems not only support those local economies, but educate the kids on where the food they eat comes from and what that

01:07:58:17 - 01:08:46:22
Jennifer Hamelman
looks like and who the farmer is. And, all of those, those things, I mean, I really believe deeply that food access to food and access to good food in particular is really a right is a it's a human right. We should all have access to the food that we need on a day to day basis. And that's the work that I really want to dig into now is is making a difference, in those in those food systems and building more relationships and making sure the right stakeholders and voices are at the table, to hear what their actual needs are and how government and community organizations can serve them in their needs.

01:08:46:25 - 01:09:19:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, that reminds me of, a recent episode that I did. I think it was episode number 295 with, Clayton Garrett and Scott Snodgrass with meristem Communities, which is a they're developing this wonderful, walkable and bikeable community just outside of Houston, Texas, of all places. And agriculture is, a key theme to it. And so they're layering in a walkable and bikeable village like, environment selling brand new homes, a brand new community.

01:09:19:27 - 01:09:49:19
John Simmerman
But they it used to be a working farm. And so they're integrating the working farm aspect of it, growing their own food and having fresh produce be a part of this community from the ground up, while also producing more fresh vegetables than the community can even consume. And so being able to sell that through a network of, of farmer's markets, you know, in Richardson, Texas, as well as, in, in the Houston, Greater Houston area.

01:09:49:22 - 01:10:04:10
John Simmerman
So I really see that there is these interconnections between, walking and biking in the, in active mobility and, you know, the, this food side of it. So yeah, right. But especially plant based, you know, that part of it. So it's stuff.

01:10:04:12 - 01:10:04:25
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah.

01:10:04:26 - 01:10:11:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Jennifer, thank you so much. This has been such a joy and pleasure having you on the active telecast.

01:10:11:14 - 01:10:28:07
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah. Thank you again for the invitation. It's been a wonderful conversation. And I'll walk down a bit of a memory lane and be able to share the work. I have a bit of adventure cycling. You know, like I said, the big 50th anniversary is coming up, and there's going to be lots of lots of things to celebrate.

01:10:28:09 - 01:10:39:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic. And I need to to connect with you one of these days in person, up in the, the Portland area, the Beaverton area. And we'll we'll have to do an on bike interview next time.

01:10:39:29 - 01:10:48:05
Jennifer Hamelman
Yeah, that would be great. The banks to Vernon. The trail is really a fabulous, destination. So I would encourage you to check it out if you make it out here.

01:10:48:08 - 01:10:50:23
John Simmerman
Fantastic. It's a date. We'll make that happen.

01:10:50:25 - 01:10:52:16
Jennifer Hamelman
Okay. Sounds good.

01:10:52:18 - 01:11:08:14
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Jennifer Hamilton. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, and be honor to have you subscribed to the channel, just click on the subscription button down below and be sure to ring that notification bell.

01:11:08:16 - 01:11:26:13
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, again, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Super easy to do. Just click on the join button right down below or head on over to Active towns.org. Click on the support tab at the top of the page, and there's several different options, including Patreon.

01:11:26:13 - 01:11:49:19
John Simmerman
Patrons do get early and and free access to all my video content, as well as buy me a coffee and again, YouTube super. Thanks. Right down below. As well as making a contribution to the nonprofit again, every little bit helps and is very much appreciated. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness.

01:11:49:21 - 01:12:07:04
John Simmerman
Cheers! And again, just want to send a huge thank you to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting your channel financially via YouTube memberships YouTube super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and joining my Patreon, every little bit adds up and is very much appreciated. Thank you all so much!