Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:28:18
Rachel Leonardo
From a financial perspective. There have been, analyzes done that show that planting a tree in in a city at like I think this was done in New York City, where for every dollar invested into a tree, there was $5 of return because of it being something that provides shade to the city. It helps with stormwater management and, it, you know, creating the word in just CO2, right?

00:00:28:18 - 00:00:40:00
Rachel Leonardo
It it's carbon sequestration. Like, there's so many benefits, on a financial level as well for, for cities and, and what we're doing there if we think about it.

00:00:40:01 - 00:01:07:11
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Rachel Leonardo with Studio Leonardo and YouTube and also, with Strong Town. She is the new video producer there for the Strong Towns organization. She resides in Pamplona, Spain. And before we dive into this delightful conversation with Rachel, I just need to say, if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Town's channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador.

00:01:07:11 - 00:01:07:28
John Simmerman
It's easy.

00:01:07:28 - 00:01:08:05
Rachel Leonardo
To do.

00:01:08:06 - 00:01:29:12
John Simmerman
Just navigate over to active towns. Org click on the support tab at the top of the page. Every little bit helps a great deal and helps bring this content to you every week. So again, thank you so much. Let's get right to it now with Rachel.

00:01:29:14 - 00:01:33:06
John Simmerman
Rachel, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:33:09 - 00:01:42:04
Rachel Leonardo
No, thank you for for having me and inviting me on. It's been an honor to be here. I'm super excited to get to talk to you and nerd out about all this stuff.

00:01:42:07 - 00:01:53:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, we are going to nerd out on all this good, good stuff. So I'm going to go ahead and turn this over to you for a second. I'll give you the floor to introduce yourself. So who the heck is Rachel?

00:01:53:13 - 00:02:20:14
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. Who is Rachel? You know, I studied architecture and in college and then currently live in Spain, so there's quite a big jump there. But I've always had a passion for the built environment and how a singular building can impact the way that we live. And that was what led me to taking those studies into like higher education.

00:02:20:16 - 00:02:43:12
Rachel Leonardo
And and I've always also had a yearning to, to live abroad and to better understand how our environment actually impacts the way that we live and experience it. For myself, living in an environment that I've never I had never previously been exposed to, and having come out here and with the background that I had, it was difficult to find work.

00:02:43:19 - 00:03:10:09
Rachel Leonardo
And that ultimately led me to YouTube, which has since, allowed me to developed, a very awesome skill set and get to connect with a lot of these incredible creators in the, urbanist space and, active, which is what I'm looking for activism and tactical urbanism space, how we can create better cities. And that's also, ultimately is what led me to to work with strong towns as well.

00:03:10:09 - 00:03:29:27
Rachel Leonardo
And I'm currently working with them to create short and long form video content to continue to promote this message that, hey, it's not just the developers and planners that can have an impact on their cities, but you can as well. And that has been probably the best thing that has happened to me in my journey so far.

00:03:29:27 - 00:03:31:28
Rachel Leonardo
It's not one that it would have predicted.

00:03:32:01 - 00:03:41:08
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic. So, know where did you where you grew up, where were you? Are there in Spain or where are you? Here in the United States?

00:03:41:11 - 00:04:08:04
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, I was in the US. I grew up, just outside of the DC area. And, you know, it was a good life. And I, was very privileged to to live in the way that grow up in the way that I did. And, but, you know, cars were always in the picture, as is kind of the typical answer I always hear from from people, in the United States who grew up around my generation, a couple years older and younger as well.

00:04:08:06 - 00:04:29:02
Rachel Leonardo
And I had my first experience abroad when I was 16. And at that time, I don't think I fully understood the difference between the lifestyle that I had in the US versus there. It is mostly just the shock of like, wow, the newspapers are in a totally different language versus and understanding of how the built environment has an impact on what you're doing in your day to day life.

00:04:29:04 - 00:05:09:22
Rachel Leonardo
But I got a second opportunity to live in Germany, in college again, very grateful for that opportunity. And it was really then, after having studied a lot of architecture and having influences in architecture school from, one of my favorite mentors, and I still believe to this day we, we connect all the time. He was very interested in the built environment and the Strong Towns movement and really introduced me to these ideas of, hey, it's not just a building that can impact the way that people use and live in space, but the urban fabric itself has a big impact on how we live and how we design it even more so, and

00:05:09:22 - 00:05:28:09
Rachel Leonardo
that's what kind of created this little nagging at myself, I guess, to want to come out here and and experience it for myself. So I've been out here for three years. I've loved it so far. And yeah, I figured why not? Well, well, I don't have too many responsibilities. Well, we'll see how it goes.

00:05:28:12 - 00:05:39:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. So you're you're in Pamplona. And we'll, we'll talk a little bit more about, that setting and all of that. But I just want to follow up, where in Germany where you.

00:05:39:13 - 00:06:01:08
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, I was in a little town called, Brown Finger Brunswick. So it was about, but I'm remembering the tram and the bus or the bus. No, sorry. The train times. Correct. We think it's an hour south. An hour and a half south. Hour and a half south of Hamburg. Okay. Very cute, quaint little town. Super walkable.

00:06:01:08 - 00:06:28:00
Rachel Leonardo
The tram systems there were incredible. I mean, I could travel around the whole country without a car very easily. Given the fact that you know, as a student, I had a card that allowed me to travel through the province that I was living in for free, essentially, and then prices to get from the edge of that province into other parts of the country, like Berlin, or even then outside of the country, were just very affordable and accessible at the time.

00:06:28:02 - 00:06:53:13
Rachel Leonardo
So, yeah, that that was that freedom of movement was such a, life changing mind shift for me in just terms of how we can create spaces that are less dependent just on the corner shop, that there weren't cars. And it's not that, I think personally, that cars are the enemy of all in the world right now.

00:06:53:13 - 00:07:31:02
Rachel Leonardo
It's just that there were more options. And and as somebody who was only there for a very short period of time where it wouldn't have been convenient to buy a car, it get a European license to then to drive around there. It was so much more easy and liberating for me to be able to meet up with friends or go and experience other parts of Europe, which is kind of the point when you're out there, in a way that felt like I wasn't being held back or I didn't have to put over a ton of money to get insurance for a car or to rent a car in places that I was unfamiliar with,

00:07:31:02 - 00:07:56:15
Rachel Leonardo
you know, with the with public transit, I could have a little card, which was probably the most difficult thing to to, to get because you're speaking in another language or at least trying to. It's very broken. But after that it's really easy, you know, versus trying to rent a car in another country. And maybe those people are speaking of broken English or I'm speaking broken German, which happened a lot.

00:07:56:17 - 00:08:21:23
Rachel Leonardo
It's just more difficult. And I think that public transit, there's more to it than just the fact that it's a convenient option. It's also, yeah, it's more affordable. And I think it can be very, very liberating, especially if you're traveling in places that are unfamiliar to you. I find that those people are often very open to even discussing, where you're going and how to get there.

00:08:21:23 - 00:08:23:00
Rachel Leonardo
They're very helpful.

00:08:23:03 - 00:08:55:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I loved it that you kind of channeled, you know, one of my core tenants of the active Towns movement, which is this is about mobility choice, having options. And that's very much the case there in, in Germany, because, you know, other than maybe a handful of cities in Germany, they're not really all that quote unquote bike oriented and active mobility oriented, to the point where you'd say, oh, yeah, no, that's that's like Utrecht in the Netherlands.

00:08:55:06 - 00:09:19:17
John Simmerman
It's like, no, no, no, it's not like that. But oftentimes there is that overlay and expectation that there's going to be mobility choice. And later, in the coming weeks, I'll be, actually profiling both Freiburg, down in the Black Forest, region, I was able to meet up with, with Ashton from the type Astron channel, on YouTube.

00:09:19:17 - 00:09:41:09
John Simmerman
And so she took me out in Freiburg and we, we did a little on bike interview there. And then, the next day I was in Munich, to meet up with the city staff, members that were in charge with building out the bicycle network there in Munich. And so, we. So stay tuned, fans, we're going to have some more content from Germany coming up here really soon.

00:09:41:12 - 00:09:52:03
John Simmerman
But I have a quick question. Follow up question, from a language perspective, because you mentioned that, you know, the challenges with language and all that. Are you multilingual? I mean, I'm, I'm assuming, you know, Spanish.

00:09:52:06 - 00:10:18:26
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, I do, I speak Spanish fluently. I'm, I'm playing around with potentially making content like, personally, for that, I think that there's a huge untapped potential for, for this movement and urbanism to, speak to people in, in their language and meet them where they're at. And, you know, we have a ton of content in English, and I don't see that as much in other languages.

00:10:18:28 - 00:10:40:15
Rachel Leonardo
Spanish is the only one. I will caveat if Spanish is the only language I speak fluently, German is very broken. And I'm currently working on Italian, and a lot of that comes from just me having a big interest in and communicating with people. I find humanity to be very fascinating, and I think to be able to speak in another language, you kind of get it.

00:10:40:15 - 00:11:01:21
Rachel Leonardo
You get a different mindset for how people approach problems and I think you also gain a certain level of trust with someone when you put in the level of effort to try and learn that language. And then the the more selfish side of me is, I mean, that is quite a maybe more selfish reason, but the other selfish reason is just, it's ethnically wise.

00:11:01:21 - 00:11:21:07
Rachel Leonardo
My family's from Austria and Italy as well as, Colombia. So I have this mix, and I've always been obsessed with this idea of trying to figure out how to think in the way that my great grandparents would in thought and probably were expressing themselves, to maybe in a last effort to try and connect with them better.

00:11:21:07 - 00:11:27:11
Rachel Leonardo
But but those are, some of the things, some of the motivators for me to learn languages.

00:11:27:13 - 00:11:53:13
John Simmerman
Fascinating, fascinating. Well, I'm gonna pop on over here to this landing page. This landing page was, when I interviewed Mike, Matt, Mike Pasternak, the previous, video champion there at Strong Towns. And that's how I first learned about you, because he was so stoked about your channel and, the content that you were creating. And, and he was like, oh, man.

00:11:53:13 - 00:12:13:14
John Simmerman
Yeah. You got to follow up, with Rachel, and I did. I reached out to you, and this has been months in the making because when I first reached out to you and I first, scheduled this recording session, it was Mike was still working at Strong Towns, and, you were still primarily focused on your own YouTube channel and doing some other things.

00:12:13:16 - 00:12:32:17
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about that journey, too, because, in fact, I'm going to pull up your, your channel here for a minute and, but but I'll let you, you know, kick it off. Talk a little bit about that YouTube journey. You mentioned it a little bit in passing there, but then you really sort of leaned into it and started producing some content.

00:12:32:20 - 00:12:37:26
John Simmerman
And, and then we'll talk about that transition over to helping strong towns out.

00:12:37:28 - 00:13:00:24
Rachel Leonardo
Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. The YouTube journey was definitely a fun one, I guess to start out. I've always been interested in video, so that's what led me to wanting to make the channel alongside having my deep interest in architecture. And I'm a chatty person, and I would always talk about this stuff with my friends, whether we'd be walking around in a city and I'd be like, look at these bricks.

00:13:00:27 - 00:13:25:25
Rachel Leonardo
The way that these are formed like this is more structural versus this one is just a, like a wrapping paper. And, you know, I had this passion for teaching and about a subject that I'm super interested in, but I know can be quite nerdy. And I wanted to use some of the skills that I had that I learned in school with animation and design to create, this channel.

00:13:25:25 - 00:13:46:02
Rachel Leonardo
And I've been. And also just to hone in on that skill and improve. And it's been really a very fruitful journey to to not only explore and get to know Pamplona better, which is two of the videos that you're seeing on the screen there. But also to connect with a couple of people who are very passionate about, like where they live.

00:13:46:05 - 00:14:13:24
Rachel Leonardo
The recent one that I posted was a collaboration I did with a cinematographer based in Austin, Texas, and if it weren't for him, I don't think I would have been able to tell that story. And we were able to also reconnect with rethink 35, which was great. And by doing this, I got I really saw the power of how social media can, can connect us, and people who who are both like minded and also those who are critical.

00:14:13:24 - 00:14:36:25
Rachel Leonardo
And I felt that this was a great way to have a landing page for constructive conversation. And one of my subscribers very, very early on at it pointed me to strong towns, which is what led me to rediscovering them because I knew about them in college. But again, at that time I wasn't as active in this, in this space.

00:14:36:27 - 00:15:02:01
Rachel Leonardo
And I don't think at that point they were making YouTube content like that. Mike was producing and shout out to my kid. He's he's awesome. He was one of my first connections with Strong Towns and put me in contact with Sierra and Sheena and some other members of the team to start making their short form, content as a way to kind of experiment and see if, if we could work together and and I was really content with that.

00:15:02:01 - 00:15:33:27
Rachel Leonardo
I was, over the moon to even be considered to be featured on their channel and that they were pleased with the content that was that I was making. And I put it you know, a lot of effort into trying to show them my best foot forward in terms of how we can make this content, not even content, these, these topics, more interesting for the person who maybe kind of interested in what we're talking about, but aren't as nerdy as you and I are on a daily basis, like begging to have these kinds of conversations.

00:15:33:27 - 00:16:00:05
Rachel Leonardo
Right? And I think that had adding these visuals and making them fun was, was, a big part of me just expressing probably what I would have liked to have seen as, a young person just starting out college or in high school then makes this world seem so much more fun because it is right. Like this is human, or like adult sized Legos is the city and is our towns.

00:16:00:05 - 00:16:25:25
Rachel Leonardo
And, the way that we're moving and building through building these spaces is so influential. So I may be rambling, but to get back to to strong towns, I, I, you know, from this content, I think that's what ended up leading me to them. And after doing some of the short form, I got an email from Sheena, one of the directors at the team at the.

00:16:25:25 - 00:16:38:22
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, at the team. And she offered me a position for the long form, creating more long form and creating more regularly with the team. And so I've started about three months ago and it's been fantastic ever since.

00:16:38:24 - 00:17:00:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, and, it's I think it's a fascinating, fascinating journey. And I do want to dive a little bit deeper into that video that you did on on Austin, because that's where I live. And so I was like stoked that that I saw that one pop up. But I do want to pop on over here to the, the actual strong towns.

00:17:00:27 - 00:17:34:06
John Simmerman
YouTube channel. And, I found it very interesting today as I was, you know, preparing for this conversation with you, to see two things. One is to see this video here that, you know, was released just ten days ago and already has, 80,000, almost 90,000 views in ten days, which in our sort of nerdy kind of world, unless your name is Jason Slaughter and you have the Not Just Bikes channel.

00:17:34:10 - 00:18:11:06
John Simmerman
I mean, that's that's really, really impressive. And in fact, you know, compared to the previous video at five months prior, where Mike had produced this wonderful, wonderful, video about why are we so lonely? And you had a cameo in and so you were in that video and, and that whole loneliness thing you very much have a connection with, because a good portion of the content on your channel talks a little bit about that, about the zeitgeist of, you know, why are we so lonely?

00:18:11:06 - 00:18:33:22
John Simmerman
And what what's the what's the influence of both the built environment and cars and, you know, screen time, you know, looking at cell phones all the time. So this is very, very complicated. But it's very, very nuanced and fun. And so I love that video. I love that you had the cameo in. And then lo and behold, boom, here we are.

00:18:33:28 - 00:18:58:02
John Simmerman
But I don't want to focus in on any of that. I mean, that's all super, super cool. And I want people to click on these and watch them if they haven't already done so. I want to focus on something that you mentioned earlier, which is short form. And so I want to go over the short form, stuff here for for Strong Towns, 1.3 million views on this one.

00:18:58:05 - 00:19:31:19
John Simmerman
That's freaking awesome. And I and it's, it is awesome because if you look at it, it's an outlier. The next closest short form video. And again, YouTube shorts. At the time, they were just 60s long. YouTube is working on making them, three minutes long. But yeah, you packaged a lot into 60s, and then you, and you channeled, Edward and Michelle's, hometown of, in their in West Virginia on this.

00:19:31:19 - 00:19:47:02
John Simmerman
Yes, I recognize that. I've, I've known them for over a decade to, talk a little bit about the fact that you, you know, caught on something here and in this little video, had 1.3 million views.

00:19:47:04 - 00:20:31:09
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, definitely. I think this is maybe more to do with the strategies and visuals and then, the topic or the content itself, but, from our understanding and something that we continue to try and build towards, is creating visuals that people can latch on to and I think even at street craft shows this really well, you know, finding a just like how we have to scale our built environment to people and we have to be very contextual about what that scale looks like, depending on how many people are moving through that space throughout a day, how many people live in that area?

00:20:31:12 - 00:21:04:02
Rachel Leonardo
We also in, in short form and in long form, need to be conscientious of what's going to attract somebody to make them understand these concepts on a deeper level. And the I think the opening of this short, which is not actually my face like being confused, which is sometimes very often, as I do research and continue to get deeper into this stuff, is it's a visual of of us coming into the street and seeing a group of homes in a suburban development.

00:21:04:05 - 00:21:38:29
Rachel Leonardo
I think the reason that the, the scaling of that worked and then the visuals that we have here with the, animation just well reflected the concept in a way that we are trying again to get to in other videos so that it, you know, this transition again between the road and into the street view and showing some B-roll of what it is to cross the street that we we we can better explain the concept of what is optical narrowing through these small concepts and kind of making changes.

00:21:38:29 - 00:22:06:27
Rachel Leonardo
But, you know, I've tried to add my personality in here as well, where, you know, we're making different camera cuts and I'm a little bit faster paced and jumpy. I think those all are things that contributed to its success because more so than just retention, which is obviously a topic and a buzzword on YouTube, it's just about constantly delivering on making content that is digestible and explainable.

00:22:06:29 - 00:22:34:03
Rachel Leonardo
And there is something that struck a nerve with people, I think, in that video to to make them feel like they could better digest and understand the concept of optical narrowing, and that it didn't have to be, or it doesn't have to be a fully fledged, you know, tree lined street with, big flower pots that help to create more of this narrowing feeling.

00:22:34:03 - 00:22:57:08
Rachel Leonardo
And cars going down it slowly. But street parking can and a couple of lines can do a lot right to to make that environment feel safer as a first step, or depending on if that is necessary at the at this moment in time, then that is a good solution. Right. And I think ultimately that's what we're trying to work for is, is step solutions over time.

00:22:57:08 - 00:23:19:21
Rachel Leonardo
I don't think it needs to look perfect, but we just need to be able to learn from from what we're doing. And our built environment. And the same thing goes with the with the short form. And that's kind of what you're seeing here, is this iterative process and testing and seeing if certain ideas resonate more with people and getting more of our, our, team members to do short form, too.

00:23:19:22 - 00:23:30:07
Rachel Leonardo
You see, in the bottom right corner there, that's one of our team members, super talented. But she's also crushing short form. She's doing a great job. We love to see it.

00:23:30:09 - 00:23:49:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. And of course, we've got, a familiar face and George on there as well. He's recently on the channel and we profiled his work and really, and he's running for city council out there in, in, Chattanooga, which is fantastic, but he's really crushing it. Also on TikTok. And, and he's got his whole following over there.

00:23:49:14 - 00:24:15:19
John Simmerman
And is so it sounds like you're you may in I'm making an assumption here. Are you kind of shifting a little bit more over to really, trying to, you know, step into Mike's shoes a little bit and focus on that. Strong towns, long form content. I know Chuck is is doing his, sort of, you know, man on the street, you know, talking into the camera, you know, on his little channel, which is fantastic.

00:24:15:19 - 00:24:33:10
John Simmerman
I love seeing him walking around Brainerd and all of that. So that the the from a, a corporate strategy perspective, you're really trying to focus in on, producing that high quality, well produced, you know, long form content for the channel.

00:24:33:12 - 00:25:15:00
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah. Well, it's it's a we're trying to do both, I think is the short and easy answer. The end of the day, we're trying to spread this message to people further. And short form is a really low lift in comparison to long form way of doing that and cumulatively get in front of more people, to to share this message in a faster way on a day to day basis versus long forms where we get more permission to dive deeper into certain topics and and, and strong towns strategy moving forward is to try and incorporate new and different perspectives on the channel as well.

00:25:15:00 - 00:25:47:02
Rachel Leonardo
So I won't be the only face that's featured on the Strong Towns long form content, but we'll have other freelance people who are sending pitches in, and those are getting, you know, handled through our systems to develop into strong towns where the long form to get different perspectives from people all over the place. Because this is very contextual, the way that we, we address these problems is going to be very much dependent on, on where you live and who's in in local government.

00:25:47:06 - 00:26:03:12
Rachel Leonardo
How much do they know about strong towns? How on board are they with strong towns or active towns ideas. Right. And I'm super excited to be one of those featured faces. And then on the other side, I will I will also continue to work on the short form content.

00:26:03:14 - 00:26:25:07
John Simmerman
Got it, got it. Well, and I want to, you know, kind of click on the sort this by most popular and very, very encouraged to see that this recent video that did come out about five months ago, that's really honing in on the new book. The Chuck, and Daniel had written on the housing trap.

00:26:25:09 - 00:26:46:13
John Simmerman
Fantastic to see that there. Of course, the number two video there from 13 years ago, coming in at just under 400,000 views. That's not really fair, though, because we know that there's other versions of that video that have an equal amount. I would guess that that particular animation video has well over a million views in total.

00:26:46:15 - 00:27:13:01
John Simmerman
It's just a classic if you guys don't know what we're talking about. I'll include the link in the show notes here, and you'll want to watch that. Chuck and I have talked about that video in In Depth because it's a lot of fun. But yeah, I hear what you're saying, too, because one of the things that I love about the short form is that it gives you that opportunity to try to and introduce the concepts, to a whole new audience.

00:27:13:01 - 00:27:39:15
John Simmerman
And so, a short form video, whether it's on TikTok or YouTube or embedded on social media channels, which, by the way, if you don't know, blue Sky is just going exploding right now. People are leaving Twitter and over the last 3 or 4 days, I mean, it's just been insane to see how many people have been flocking over there.

00:27:39:18 - 00:28:12:03
John Simmerman
So that's just a little, a little tip to you guys, over to Strong Towns. Lean into your blue sky and get, get, get to get you get get over there. Because it's really encouraging to see, the energy that's over there. But you hear what I'm saying is, it's like whether it's on threads or Instagram or whatever the platform is, and, and that's kind of the weird world that I'm in is, yes, I'm producing this podcast and producing this content on YouTube, but I'm also promoting all of this content on all these different, social media platforms.

00:28:12:06 - 00:28:48:27
John Simmerman
And before, Twitter imploded and became a cesspool, you know, I was very, very active there and had a good following there to, talk a little bit about that strategy, though, of of like producing that combination of the short form content to try to get out to new audiences and fresh eyes so that we're not just all bouncing around within our echo chamber, and then also hopefully bringing people in to the environment and then, you know, maybe that's their their clue to, like, click on one of those longer form and diving deeper into the subject.

00:28:48:29 - 00:29:18:25
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah for sure. Yeah. I mean, I like I said, I think the fact that it is low lift makes it easier for it to get out there and show form has is more susceptible to to virality. I feel in a in, in a way that the amount of time that's dedicated to it doesn't have to, you just have a greater return on investment, I guess, just to put it, to put it simply and on each platform it's going to look different.

00:29:18:27 - 00:29:55:15
Rachel Leonardo
But all of these platforms, all of their algorithms, are prioritizing interest over subscriber counts or followers. And what that ultimately ends up meaning is we can reach colder audiences quicker, depending on people's interests, and if we do a good job of going back to the visuals, on that one. Shorts for Strong towns. If if all of those visuals hit the mark to make that piece of content feel educational and and deliver the message in a digestible way, right.

00:29:55:15 - 00:30:22:10
Rachel Leonardo
I think those are the two biggest questions that we should be asking ourselves as, as we take the information we know about the built environment and we are putting it online, it also is opening ourselves up to those criticisms. I think for me, the way that I see those kinds of comments, although I do believe people can be a bit kinder on the internet, or they should be at least, that I don't.

00:30:22:10 - 00:30:49:15
Rachel Leonardo
I don't see those things as necessarily negative. Right. They're just expressing an opinion based off of their own perspective, the way that they've lived. And one video that's 60s long, I understand, isn't going to convince you of anything or change your life. But if you're seeing as frequently showing up on these different platforms and you're hearing our ideas and are open to understanding a little bit more, then it does create more room, breathing room for you to consume that kind of content.

00:30:49:15 - 00:31:16:10
Rachel Leonardo
We create a library of content that is consistent, that you can then go back to and and watch a bit more, and if you start to want to understand it at a deeper level than there is long form to get into and, you know, long form to me nowadays is very much, trying to create content that is TV quality, right?

00:31:16:13 - 00:31:33:10
Rachel Leonardo
We, we want people to sit down and watch this and digest it, but we want it to be fun and exciting because, you know, I'm not the only one who is in school at one point. And they put on a show that's 30 minutes long and it's kind of boring and it goes over your head like, how can we how can we change that?

00:31:33:10 - 00:31:51:25
Rachel Leonardo
Right? That's always been my my goal is to create content that is exciting. And and that's a work in progress for sure. I mean, I don't think that I'm at the level that I want to be, but that's exciting to to know that I'm, I'm working towards towards that. I don't know if that fully answers your question.

00:31:51:27 - 00:32:14:17
John Simmerman
No, I think it does too. And in fact, I see connections between the Ranson of West Virginia, you know, explainer video that really kind of talks about what happens when you widen, you know, the lane and when you widen the clear zones and all of that. And, and the video that we're looking at here with our disaster, that is I-35 that runs right through the center of of Austin, Texas.

00:32:14:20 - 00:32:51:23
John Simmerman
And I think that it it really kind of helps people better understand, you know, their built environment in the streetscape and why speeding is such an issue. And, you know, the fact that we have taken, highway designs, highway street designs, highway, you know, roadway designs and force them into urban environments, which just absolutely destroy, you know, the, the, the neighborhoods and the downtowns and the vibrancy and and I think that that's one of the tragedies that we have had.

00:32:51:23 - 00:33:21:13
John Simmerman
And so much of what, you know, Chuck has talked about in terms of what a road is, a street road hybrid of taking these highway designs and then forcing them in, but at the same time having lots of meaningful destinations and driveways and, you know, mixing it just doesn't mix. And so an easy onboarding through a 62nd video to be able to explain something to somebody interested and say, oh, okay, I'm going to what's that next video.

00:33:21:13 - 00:33:41:17
John Simmerman
You know, I want to learn more about this and is cetera. I'm looking, you know, so we're looking at the Austin video here. And one of the things that that I think about is I could totally see this being a Strong Towns video as well. How did it end up on your personal channel versus the Strong Towns channel?

00:33:41:20 - 00:34:08:26
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah. Well, this was one of the last videos that I was producing on my own before moving over. So that's kind of how this ended up happening. But to speak a little bit more to this, you know, I'm, I love the collaborative process. If you look through some of the old, older videos on my channel as well, I, I'm obsessed with trying to get to know other people in this space who are trying to make content, making this, this topic much more accessible to, to people online.

00:34:08:26 - 00:34:33:24
Rachel Leonardo
Right. And really leveraging the power of social media to to reach voices who otherwise would not hear about these topics. And this was such a fun experience because I got to connect with people in Austin and better understand what's going on there, despite the fact that I have not been able to visit yet. And I really want to.

00:34:33:27 - 00:34:35:18
John Simmerman
Here's Miriam right here. So.

00:34:35:21 - 00:35:07:13
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah. Right. Right. No, totally. And I think that the, the, the benefit of being able to connect in this way is, it's make me it's made me more excited and elongated my list of places that I want to go. And it also challenges me at least as a, as a creator on that side of things, to, to put myself in the shoes of the people who who are there and humbly to recognize that having not lived there, I probably can't reflect to the best of my ability what it's like to be there.

00:35:07:18 - 00:35:28:23
Rachel Leonardo
But having access to people who who do live there, who do want to share these stories, and I can be the vehicle to to get know, you know, pun intended there. But the vehicle to to to make that to happen online is is super cool. So for me that's awesome. And I hope like, just as another cat like small thing.

00:35:28:25 - 00:35:56:02
Rachel Leonardo
One of the reasons I do love social media is it's it is really easy to reach out. And I've found that people who are really interested in this topic and have not had an experience in it prior and come from very different walks of life, have messaged me and we've had amazing conversations offline, as well as, you know, in different interviews and stuff that you can see on, on YouTube, that I feel have strengthened this movement and created more diverse perspectives.

00:35:56:04 - 00:36:07:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. And this is one of the videos that we were sort of alluding to earlier about social isolation. And it's also one of the other videos where you did, you know, a collaborative effort with Fuller Design.

00:36:07:09 - 00:36:28:04
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah. Yeah. Which is so cool. Yeah. No, but it's the social stuff is stuff. The social side of this issue is definitely what got me most interested in it. And now working with Strong Towns, I'm getting I'm learning more of that financial backing. I definitely would not claim I'm an expert, but I'm diving into that as well.

00:36:28:04 - 00:36:55:09
Rachel Leonardo
And I find it very interesting to see as these pieces come together and build up on their own, how they'll start to intertwine and in, at least in my mind, in how I'm able to make sense of it and and express the ties between the social aspects of our design, how we're the social implications, I should say, of the way that we design our built environment and the financial implications as well, and what the crossover is there.

00:36:55:11 - 00:37:11:02
Rachel Leonardo
And I think that that there's there's something interesting there that I have not fully formed a thought around. I have inklings of things at the moment, but, yeah, very it's exciting. I'm, I'm very obsessed with this stuff.

00:37:11:04 - 00:37:55:09
John Simmerman
But let me ask you this, since I've been a part of the, you know, this movement for, for so long in knowing personally Chuck and also, Joe Kosi, who does the financial modeling that I think has really made a huge impact on helping make it understandable. So, let me just shut up and let you explain, you know, how easy is it to kind of grasp and understand, you know, that connection between the financial side of stuff and what you have been swimming in over the last 3 or 4 years, which is, you know, understanding, you know, the social isolation stuff and the impact on, on that side of, of things, which is

00:37:55:09 - 00:38:03:02
John Simmerman
very much a, like, psychology and wellness and, you know, wellbeing sort of side of things.

00:38:03:04 - 00:38:30:09
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the financial side, the, the strong towns approach, the message that, we as an organization try to put forward. Is that the way that we've been building over the last 60 years, the suburban development pattern has put us in a financial deficit or debt, and we have no way of paying off the amount of infrastructure that we have based off of the amount of people that use it.

00:38:30:11 - 00:38:57:16
Rachel Leonardo
The best thing, the best way to think about this is in terms of ratios. For one person in a town, there could be 20,000ft² of developed land today, in 2024, and back in 1940, that number would have looked like 1600 square feet. And that's a major difference. And I am pulling those numbers from the last video I did.

00:38:57:16 - 00:39:19:06
Rachel Leonardo
But I do believe that I have tweaked them slightly. So don't don't quote me on that directly. But essentially the idea here is if you now are one person and have to pay for 20,000ft² of maintenance, that that is a much higher cost, a much higher burden and risk for you to take on, financially to, to maintain.

00:39:19:06 - 00:39:41:09
Rachel Leonardo
And that is what happens at the local level is our cities are not able to financially afford the large amounts of development that they have done over the last 60 years. And at some point through our taxes, we have to pay for that. That's very much the strong towns approach, and and I am completely on board with that.

00:39:41:09 - 00:40:08:24
Rachel Leonardo
I did it is something that's really opened my eyes over the last couple of months. I would even say because it has it is admittedly not been my focus and my on my personal channel. But I do feel that it's a, a major support and like benefactor of the social side as well. So for me and my personal approach here coming into this, I've been interested in the social aspect more so because of the influences I've had here in Spain.

00:40:08:27 - 00:40:36:24
Rachel Leonardo
The culture and the identity of each of these towns is so intertwined in different cultural. It, festivals and fairs and markets that they have. And, and it's not something that's just one time a year like these little places, I guess they talk to each other at one point because there is something going on in every town, all over this country, every weekend, going from the summer into the winter.

00:40:36:24 - 00:40:38:28
Rachel Leonardo
And it doesn't stop.

00:40:39:00 - 00:40:55:10
John Simmerman
And, you know, let me jump in real quick and say this is that I that's that's what I hear from my friends that live in Germany, too. Yeah. They're like, there's like a festival happening all the time here. So maybe it's a just a European thing of like, let's, hey, let's get together, let's have more festivals and why not?

00:40:55:11 - 00:40:56:02
John Simmerman
Right?

00:40:56:04 - 00:41:33:01
Rachel Leonardo
Right. Yeah. And I definitely think that that is the, the, the culture around this as well. It's like people again, because they were able to grow in a way without major influences from, cars or industrial infrastructure ization of things. There's there's a benefit that they, they have today right there. There's also been suffering and growth and learning that they have to go through to, to get to this point in 2024, to offer these kinds of services to, you know, to, to people.

00:41:33:05 - 00:41:48:05
Rachel Leonardo
That's not to say that they never existed. But just to not evade the fact that they also have hardships. Right. And, for me, that cultural point is.

00:41:48:08 - 00:42:14:06
Rachel Leonardo
There's there's more to the city than just the buildings, right? There's an identity there to that is encapsulated by the people who live there, the things that the people are proud of to to live in a city. And sometimes, sometimes the numbers don't get through to people. It's the emotional side that maybe gets people hooked in at first.

00:42:14:08 - 00:42:36:24
Rachel Leonardo
Right? The why are you proud to live in Austin, Texas? Why are you proud to live in Nicosia, Greece? There's a there's an organization that I speak with, speak to, based in Nicosia, Cyprus. They're going to they're going to, be messaging me, messaging me for that mix up. But, you know, like, why are these people, why are they proud to be where they're from?

00:42:36:24 - 00:43:07:17
Rachel Leonardo
Like, what? What makes their place unique? Right. And one of the things that I'm at least was trying to do was show that these frameworks of creating places that feel more walkable, that have local businesses around the corner, that you have easy access to, that have mobility choice, create an environment that can foster more of these cultural experiences because you're able to get together and spontaneously have these kinds of festivals, right?

00:43:07:17 - 00:43:26:12
Rachel Leonardo
Like there's a small town that south of of where I live about an hour south, and they have a youth festival every year. And at one point part of that youth festival was they would throw melons at the town hall. And I'm not suggesting that every place does that, but I don't know where that came from. Right. But it was unique to them.

00:43:26:12 - 00:43:32:04
Rachel Leonardo
And and maybe there was just an excess of melon product that they had. And so it's.

00:43:32:06 - 00:43:53:07
John Simmerman
It's it's also a sense of fun and whimsy. And, you know, you're in Pamplona there. So of course Pamplona has the running of the bulls. And so, you know, every place kind of has this little thing that's that, that's there. But you were just saying, though, brought this memory or this image into, into my memory and of course, this, go ahead and introduce this.

00:43:53:07 - 00:43:54:22
John Simmerman
What are we looking at?

00:43:54:25 - 00:44:17:09
Rachel Leonardo
Sure, sure. Yeah. This. So this was my thesis project for architecture school. I'm sure there's probably a lot more work that could have been done for that, but essentially, I was trying to redesign a space, just, outside of campus of Virginia Tech to the left there, that big gray boxes, one of is in stadium seating for Lane Stadium.

00:44:17:12 - 00:44:43:18
Rachel Leonardo
And anybody who has gone to Virginia Tech will know that the area next door to it is a place called Center Street, which was notorious for these big tailgates and parties and was optimal because there were these little paths that you can also see in the drawing here that connected the stadium to this neighborhood. And when gameday came around, most of this area got shut off and people were able to walk freely.

00:44:43:20 - 00:45:22:09
Rachel Leonardo
But the problem is that a lot of the housing in this area, it was, you know, some of the most expensive land in the in Blacksburg and the housing was is very dilapidated and also very single family. So the gray buildings you see that are still there in this more developed space, were going to be existing buildings. And then the other colored buildings that you see, there were suggestions as to how we could make the space, better for people, the people of Blacksburg, and also more housing for students as the I don't know if you see the current president, but the president, Tim Stand, was trying to ramp up the amount of students coming

00:45:22:09 - 00:45:43:09
Rachel Leonardo
in to kind of to create more of a Texas A&M like a big school. Right. And obviously, issues with these university towns is, you need more student housing, you need more affordable student housing, and you can't. Or it's best to try not to encroach on the local market where people from the town would live. And, you know, try and keep prices level.

00:45:43:11 - 00:46:28:23
Rachel Leonardo
Obviously, those are big issues and, problems that Blacksburg faces as well as other university towns. But this was kind of an attempt at least to try and visualize what this space could look like by, you know, shifting the way that, the buildings were to create little open spaces for people to meet up to create, again, this, this, to incentivize culture being created in these streets and, more green environments that, that also just felt nice to walk in, you know, a college tailgate in a kind of rundown area in the neighborhood that you can imagine how that ends up looking after after a day, especially if it's raining.

00:46:28:25 - 00:46:48:18
Rachel Leonardo
And this was a way that we could we could just reimagine what that looked like. And for me, it was such a amazing project to be a part of because it was my first little attempt at doing some sort of urban planning. Right beforehand, I was told, if you design a building, then the building can be helpful to people.

00:46:48:18 - 00:47:14:10
Rachel Leonardo
But and I, you know, Virginia Tech had a great program. My my colleagues as well are fantastic designers. But at the time I had a problem with the fact that I didn't know how to voice it, that we were told that only one building can change the lives of many people, and we didn't connect it to how it that one building could also have an impact in the greater urban fabric that was being created, or greater public realm that was being created.

00:47:14:12 - 00:47:30:03
Rachel Leonardo
So this was a kind of a small attempt in a small town to try and do something similar. And, and these images that you're flashing through. Here are a few of the collages put together to give the, like ephemeral idea of what the spaces could be.

00:47:30:06 - 00:47:52:20
John Simmerman
It's so funny too, because when I think about the videos that you have produced and how many of them that you have done, you know, out in the little public squares there in Pamplona and all of that, I look at this like, like, oh, yeah, I can see that this is, you know, a couple of years prior to you actually living in those types of environments.

00:47:52:23 - 00:48:26:17
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about how powerful that is for you to be living in an environment where, you do have that sort of informal sociability of, you know, people coming together in that sort of space and how that relates to and maybe helps smooth over some of the, the jaggedness of, of that loneliness. One of the topics that you talk about a lot, I would imagine that your and I don't know you all.

00:48:26:18 - 00:48:47:07
John Simmerman
I don't want to assume why you were talking about this, but I can imagine that if you were out stuck in some suburban context and and doing that, you would be even more challenged, or you would be in a situation where that would be personally that much more impactful. But I don't want to make any assumptions and speak for you.

00:48:47:07 - 00:48:50:01
John Simmerman
So talk a little bit about that relevance.

00:48:50:03 - 00:49:11:24
Rachel Leonardo
Sure, sure. Yeah. I'll try to to make it kind of quick, but for me, loneliness was always a very interesting topic. I personally wouldn't say I have ever been super lonely. I mean, coming out here, of course, is a big change. And and there is a huge cultural shock. And so there are definitely moments where, what I was more focused on trying to build up my career.

00:49:11:24 - 00:49:29:01
Rachel Leonardo
And I think I've only recently started to take advantage of the fact that I live in a place that makes it easier to connect with people, and I've made some some great friends and have recurring activities in the evenings and and that has been awesome to to see how my social life has flourished here.

00:49:29:03 - 00:49:40:25
John Simmerman
Two questions for you real quick. Did you know anybody in town when you first moved there? And and to, you know, what was the reason for that move in that city.

00:49:40:27 - 00:50:00:06
Rachel Leonardo
Sure. Yeah. So I in Germany, all of my roommates were from Pamplona. And then I miss the connection. I miss my partner and my partners out here. So that was one of the big reasons. So I do know people here, but some of them have since moved away. Because, yeah, they found work in different, different cities in Spain.

00:50:00:06 - 00:50:23:28
Rachel Leonardo
And also one is in France, but, but and, and I definitely had like a social life. But it's always been through other people and never been something on my own. And so I've since branched out this year to be able to do that. And the, the infrastructure of this, of this city and many cities like it. And I don't think that this is an uncommon like you can definitely find this in the U.S.

00:50:23:28 - 00:50:54:10
Rachel Leonardo
I have friends who live in San Diego and they take a trolley to get into different parts of the city, and they find that to be fantastic because, you know, they can go out and have a drink and not worry about having to take a car home, right. But here, from what I've been able to live and notice, is, you know, having come from the suburbs and the DC area is I can leave my house out my front door and I can be with my friends at a bar in five minutes, and we can share, drink and have like, deep conversations.

00:50:54:10 - 00:51:17:21
Rachel Leonardo
And, and it also like lends itself to these group meetings. Right. There's a lot of expats here. And I found this expat group and we we meet regularly on Tuesdays and Fridays. Right. And and I'm also in a language school here learning Italian. And so those are people that I'm also connected to. And we have shared common interests.

00:51:17:21 - 00:51:53:04
Rachel Leonardo
Right. That I think come from partially this cultural lens. Right. And the fact that in the city, they do have a lot of these public works, public art, music that comes in plays, especially in the summertime, and that also gets you introduced to different groups and associations around the city that you can become a part of, much like the way that college would have the, that it wasn't the career fair, but there's there's little interest meeting or interest fairs for different events in organizations and associations that they had on campus.

00:51:53:06 - 00:52:15:17
Rachel Leonardo
There's a citywide version of that here. And it's just it's just not as deliberate. But by seeing, you know, 26 drum sets in the middle of the Plaza de Castillo, which is one of the places I feature in my videos, and they're all playing like, rock music. I mean, that makes me want to go and play drums.

00:52:15:17 - 00:52:37:24
Rachel Leonardo
I have no drum experience or musical experience at all. But, you know, like, that's a cool community. Those are all people who who share common interests and they come together because of that. And so I have found my people through language learning, and also those who who have come here as expats and share similar experience to me in that, and I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second half.

00:52:37:24 - 00:53:00:17
John Simmerman
No, no, that's all good. And it also brings up, you know, in looking at your, your, your LinkedIn page, I was like, oh, and you also did some work for Garyvee there. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Talk a little bit about that and introduce Gary for people in the urbanism world. I know Gary from gosh, his very first book.

00:53:00:17 - 00:53:06:23
John Simmerman
He, he wrote, you know, nearly two decades ago. Right. How the heck did that come together.

00:53:06:26 - 00:53:51:28
Rachel Leonardo
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I was looking for work and I was doing my own YouTube thing on my channel, and, applied me through some community posts that he had for international positions. They were looking for people to translate his content. So I was actually predominantly working for his Spanish channel, but I did end up taking closer to the end of my time with them, a role that was, overseeing all of our language channels and, and, he's been the foundational in my understanding of social media and how to digest and understand the analytics of social media and the importance of being consistent and posting and and curious and also willing to try different

00:53:51:28 - 00:54:20:23
Rachel Leonardo
pieces of content. Right. And, I mean, the rumors are very true. He's an incredible human being. His team is also incredible. They're very kind people, very hard working people. But yeah, that, I think is also the reason that connection even came about this because of this channel. So if you have anybody who's watching who has any interest or in urbanism or in something niche, I highly encourage you to, to start posting.

00:54:20:25 - 00:54:46:24
Rachel Leonardo
You don't have to be an expert at all or have any idea how to use video. You'll learn as you continue to do it. You're putting in the reps as, as Gary says and many others, and it leads you to some incredible opportunities. You know, I'm two, three years into this and I've been able to meet amazing people and have been able to, yeah, expand my worldview not only in urbanism but but in other aspects as well.

00:54:46:24 - 00:54:49:23
Rachel Leonardo
So I really yeah, I appreciate a lot.

00:54:49:25 - 00:55:12:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. And so you're settled in there in Pamplona, and occasionally you make your way back here to North America, I believe, in fact, I think that's the reason why we didn't connect when I was in Europe for 60 days as you were heading back to North America. So, so long term perspective. You think you're going to be settling there for for some time?

00:55:12:22 - 00:55:34:07
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah, at least at the moment. I definitely feel I feel good here. I feel very settled. You know, I'm finding my roots in Pamplona, and I really am also finding the little things about the city that I'm, you know, slowly falling in love with. Right. I should say slowly. But you know what I'm trying to say? But I do have really strong ties to the U.S.

00:55:34:07 - 00:56:02:08
Rachel Leonardo
I love, the people that live there. I think that there is so much, hard work and, like, ingenuity and this, this kind of do it yourself that we have that is, it's it feels very unique. And maybe that's coming from my, you know, singular perspective and, and as a movement that's trying to create better towns, create more active spaces there.

00:56:02:11 - 00:56:17:14
Rachel Leonardo
There's so much opportunity for all of us to, to get more involved. And so I, I do try to make it back to the U.S at least two times a year now with strong towns that could be more, things, things they're still developing. But yeah.

00:56:17:16 - 00:56:39:19
John Simmerman
Well, I'm super excited, to hear this opportunity to maybe do some translation and to do some content in Spanish as well. Given given the fact that you are fluent there and you have that history of especially working with Garyvee and all of that from that perspective, I just had, Jordy on, on the channel. So I know that you're colleagues with him as well.

00:56:39:24 - 00:57:04:14
John Simmerman
He's doing wonderful stuff down in Barcelona and all of that. And, I've, I've had Manu Calvo, down in Seville on the channel a couple of times, and, it's always wonderful connecting with him. I haven't been down to Seville, recently. It was 2018 was the last time I was there. But I really look forward to meeting up with you over there one of these days soon.

00:57:04:14 - 00:57:19:24
John Simmerman
And also Jordi in Barcelona. I'm so, you know, intrigued by all of that. Given the context of the recent bad storms in Valencia, I have to ask. I hope you didn't get hit by a massive flooding in your region as well.

00:57:19:26 - 00:57:50:09
Rachel Leonardo
Yeah. Here. We're good in the north. The terrain here is very different, but the yeah is very sad to see what has happened there. And, you know, trying to see the positive as well. And the way that the people have come together has been awesome. It's something that they're still dealing with very much. So, you know, people are going down and trying to help and volunteer, and there's been a lot of push in the rest of the country as well to gather resources for them.

00:57:50:12 - 00:58:14:23
Rachel Leonardo
And, and, you know, frankly, a lot of criticism as to how it was handled and, and some learning moments for how they should handle this kind of stuff in the future. They are expecting more rain, actually, within the next couple of weeks. Like this. This, event is something that happened annually. It just was that this year it was at a level that there has been unprecedented.

00:58:14:25 - 00:58:43:01
Rachel Leonardo
And, you know, it it's tough, but natural disaster is definitely a prevalent part of the way that we live and is something that we need to take into account when designing our cities. And, you know, trying to find better ways to create surfaces that are more absorbent and, resilient to just lump it all in one thing.

00:58:43:04 - 00:59:26:08
John Simmerman
Yeah. And it's very analogous to the situation that Germany cozy. And what they're going through there in Asheville, North Carolina, also kind of brings up, one of the things the common themes that that we have here on the channel of, you know, cities and regions and countries that are moving with more, much more of a sense of urgency, of dealing with, global warming and trying to, appreciate the fact that, you know, we need to start really rethinking our dependance on automobiles and that contribution that we are all having, to, you know, this challenge that that we have that we have created at this point and whether we can reverse any of

00:59:26:08 - 01:00:00:23
John Simmerman
this. And so certainly in the European Union, they are, working much more, deliberately and intentionally, you know, towards making some of these. So I'm sure that you notice that. And of course, as we are recording this here on the 12th of November, we've got cop 29 kicking off right now and having many of those discussions right now to close this out is there anything in particular that we haven't mentioned that you want to make sure to leave the audience with?

01:00:00:26 - 01:00:23:25
Rachel Leonardo
Well, I guess to finish the cop some comments on that. You know, even I think environmentalism, can come across sometimes as, very just green, right. And maybe surface level, like depending on what side of what your perspective is on, on that people are for it and, and want to dive in and others are maybe more hesitant.

01:00:23:27 - 01:00:44:16
Rachel Leonardo
And I just want to touch that on a bit from a financial perspective. There have been, analyzes done that show that planting a tree in in a city at like, I think this was done in New York City, where for every dollar invested into a tree, there was $5 of return because of it being something that provides shade to the city.

01:00:44:23 - 01:01:13:29
Rachel Leonardo
It helps with stormwater management and, it, you know, creating more than just CO2, right? It it's carbon sequestration. Like there's so many benefits, on a financial level as well for, for cities and, and what we're doing there if we think about it. So I'm working on developing that pillar as well. Right now I'm definitely focused more on the social and financial, but I definitely think there's a way to combine all three.

01:01:13:29 - 01:01:36:17
Rachel Leonardo
I think that those three are the three pillars of sustainability that we need to think about in terms of creating stable and resilient places long term. And, I don't think that's something to be solved overnight, some rubber challenge. But I appreciate you having me on. This was an awesome conversation, and I hope we can we can speak again in more in depth at some point.

01:01:36:19 - 01:01:49:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. No, I look forward to that. And I look forward to meeting you in person, whether that's here in North America or over there in Europe. Rachel. Leonardo, it has been such a pleasure having you here on the Active Towns podcast. Thank you so much.

01:01:49:23 - 01:01:51:24
Rachel Leonardo
Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

01:01:51:27 - 01:02:06:17
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Rachel Leonardo. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribed to the channel! Just click on this subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

01:02:06:20 - 01:02:28:04
John Simmerman
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01:02:28:04 - 01:02:47:07
John Simmerman
And hey, every little bit helps and I really do appreciate it. Thank you once again for tuning in. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon.

01:02:47:07 - 01:03:00:09
John Simmerman
Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much!