Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:03 - 00:00:16:05
Tom Flood
Yeah, this looks to be a light pole with, a black and white poster taped. Taped on as you went, for which I used to do with my band is tape them all up all over Toronto. It says we ask everyone outside of the car to be safe so that drivers can be dangerous. That's the entirety of our approach to road safety.

00:00:16:07 - 00:00:30:08
Tom Flood
And so it's just taped on this pole, and a lot of them have been put up close to intersections or close to intersections where there's some victim blaming infrastructure or language or spaces. So yeah, it's pretty pretty powerful to see these out there.

00:00:30:10 - 00:00:51:12
John Simmerman
Hey everyone welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Tom Flood from Rovelo Creative up in Hamilton, Ontario, we're going to be catching up with Tom to see what has happened since the last time he was on the podcast in 2022. So let's get right to it with Tom.

00:00:51:15 - 00:00:54:18
John Simmerman
Tom Flood. Welcome to the Active Towns podcast.

00:00:54:20 - 00:00:56:21
Tom Flood
Thanks for having me, John.

00:00:56:23 - 00:01:09:03
John Simmerman
Tom, you have been on the podcast before, which we'll talk a little bit about that later on. But why don't you take this opportunity just to introduce yourself? Who the heck is Tom flood?

00:01:09:06 - 00:01:35:18
Tom Flood
Well, number one, I'm a parent of, two kids, a music lover, and I run a small communications agency, that does all sorts of creative content, and strategy work for kind of a wide, wide range of clients. But there's been a pretty serious focus on, you know, trying to reframe the the mainstream narrative around road safety, road violence and active transportation.

00:01:35:21 - 00:01:38:06
Tom Flood
In the last, number of years.

00:01:38:09 - 00:02:08:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. And reframing. I'm glad that you use that term reframing, because, you know, framing is a big part of our challenge that we have in, in, in our societies. I'm using that as a plural of, you know, the narratives that are out there. And, I had Grant in his on and he has, of course, the, the book with dark PR and it's all about the different framings that, you know, motor dumb uses and the oil and gas industry uses and all of that.

00:02:09:03 - 00:02:30:23
John Simmerman
And that's really part of your world. I mean, your world is, in fact, part of that framing of messages. And, so, so we'll go to, to to this, you know, this photo here. This is from your past life. Okay. Confessions time. Yeah. What is this all about?

00:02:30:26 - 00:03:00:17
Tom Flood
So I began my career in advertising. Agency side, and, I actually began working on automotive manufacturers, and this is, the shirt is just is unbelievable. But, this is, something from a industry publication called strategy, and it's talks about some of the next media stars and it's talking about a campaign I did when we, together with many people, launched the Toyota Tundra, kind of all new model in in Canada in about 2007, I think.

00:03:00:17 - 00:03:08:23
Tom Flood
And it was just a large campaign that I worked on, and that's kind of where I got my start. So it's kind of strange seeing where I've ended up now.

00:03:08:25 - 00:03:26:16
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I if we zoom in, we can see, you know, involved in the launch of the Toyota Tundra, one of the biggest in the brand's history. Yeah. You were you were deep in this, and then something happened. What happened?

00:03:26:19 - 00:03:43:04
Tom Flood
So I spent a number of years in that world. And then, you know, one day my kids were old enough to go to to go to school and daycare. And there they are, many years ago now. But, so I thought it'd be kind of fun to take them on their bikes and put one on the back of mine.

00:03:43:06 - 00:04:11:08
Tom Flood
Really? Not knowing anything about this space. And, the absurdity was immediate, and the imbalance was so direct, and so visceral. Just just the, the the safety and and the movement for people outside of the car became really, really apparent. The dangerous to me from, from their perspective and through their eyes. And it's one of those things, John, that I know you know very well and people that know your podcast know very well that once you see it, you can't unsee it.

00:04:11:11 - 00:04:25:18
Tom Flood
And that is what kind of triggered, you know, my involvement in this space and place that I had no background, no qualifications, no interest in previously until I, you know, took them out on their bikes and just kind of saw it for what it was.

00:04:25:20 - 00:04:52:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And, and a lot of what has happened for you is it's one thing to be like a parent and be like, oh, this is like hitting me across the face. And and be like, okay, I'm in a retreat. I it's too dangerous. I'm just going to drive my kids everywhere. You know, that's that's a logical, pragmatic response by a lot of parents.

00:04:52:15 - 00:04:56:02
John Simmerman
You didn't take that response. What what did you do?

00:04:56:04 - 00:05:18:07
Tom Flood
Well, I think like like some other people, I started to share some of my frustrations, online. And it really from the perspective of just, a parent, that thought it was a little ridiculous that it was so unsafe for kids to go to school at the time. We had these new bike lanes going in, near our house that would take us directly to their primary school.

00:05:18:09 - 00:05:47:19
Tom Flood
And what really motivated me was hearing some of the rhetoric around city council and the council chambers, around these bike lanes, something I thought were very positive. And again, so naive at the time, I couldn't believe people didn't actually like these. And then you started hearing, yeah, some of the rhetoric going around and, and, what really set me off was when certain councilors, you know, would reference myself and many other people as radical for wanting these very small safety measures for kids to get to school.

00:05:47:19 - 00:06:12:02
Tom Flood
So for me, that's what kind of set me down this path to try and highlight to people, you know, that this is not a radical idea for kids to be able to get to school safely and independently. It's really should be what we should be normalizing. And that's kind of what sent me down this path. And something that still motivates me to this day is to try to connect with a middle ground that just hasn't had their awakening or that moment of clarity yet.

00:06:12:04 - 00:06:43:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you're great at coming up with these one liners. And there's sticky chip. You must have been in advertising or something. And, and but then you do what naturally one would do is you put them on a t shirt. And so this describes you right here. What you just talked about. I just wanted to bike with my kid, and now I spend most of my time at City Hall, obviously tongue in cheek, but this is powerful.

00:06:43:26 - 00:07:01:09
Tom Flood
Yeah, that this. I mean, that is what happened to me and probably to many people in this space. And the idea of the shirts was really again, none of this was a part of my my plan at all. It all happened very organically. I mean, one person, I think 2 or 3 years ago said, hey, can you make a shirt for me?

00:07:01:09 - 00:07:10:14
Tom Flood
And I was like, well, I don't know where to start with that. But if enough people want one, maybe, maybe I'll try to do that. And then a few more people asked. And that's kind of how it started.

00:07:10:16 - 00:07:31:14
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. It's pretty funny too, because I think back to that first, the first episode that we did and, and I know you had to figure out, okay, when was that? Exactly. And it was actually just a couple of years ago. It was actually on, let's see, this is in season three and episode 119.

00:07:31:14 - 00:07:56:19
John Simmerman
There we are. And, and in fact, when we look at the image, the second image that I put as is sort of the landing image, this image right here, this was a t shirt as well. So it it's a graphic. It's out there. You you post these to social media, but then you also slap a lot of this stuff onto t shirts because what the heck, maybe somebody will want it on a t shirt, or a sticker or something.

00:07:56:21 - 00:08:28:08
John Simmerman
And it's, it's it's very, very interesting. Very, very cool. But let's talk let's take rewind just a little bit and talk a little bit about, what has transpired since, you know, we last spoke, in this platform. You and I just saw each other a few months ago in Cincinnati, for the strong international gathering and seen you, but way back in 2022 with the season three, episode 119, this was still kind of new.

00:08:28:15 - 00:08:57:09
John Simmerman
You know, for you, I mean, it took up, it took it picked up some steam and some momentum during the pandemic. And then, you know, coming out of things in 2022, there was a certain amount of stickiness, and you were already producing some of the t shirts and some of the, you know, the images online. But talk a little bit about the update of what has happened, since 2022.

00:08:57:11 - 00:09:18:20
Tom Flood
Yeah, okay. I can't yeah, it feels a lot longer. John. I'm not sure, but yeah. Two years. Unbelievable. Yeah. It's been you have to kind of, from that point of been doing because of some very amazing people been asked to do some talks and some workshops and some lectures at various universities and various organizations. Again, something I never really had a plan for.

00:09:18:20 - 00:09:42:04
Tom Flood
So that's another kind of part of, what I've been doing through Ravello. And again, it's used it's typically us, around framing communications and language and how we talk about, active transportation, road safety and road violence in that space. So I've been doing a lot of that. I've been working with amazing organizations, doing some creative work, strategy work, content work.

00:09:42:07 - 00:10:04:08
Tom Flood
And it kind of just keeps rolling along. I've been very fortunate to work with really, really smart people that know a lot more than I do about this space. What I try to do is help, help these people in organizations, you know, take the incredible information they have and try to distill it down and, and create messages that may resonate with, their intended audiences.

00:10:04:08 - 00:10:29:11
Tom Flood
So I've been doing a lot of creative work this last year or so, and, you know, some of the, some of the work that was produced just for my myself and my own interest, you know, continues to get picked up by various people. And it's extremely flattering that people have taken some of these messages and, and place them, you know, in specific media spaces or you know, guerrilla style marketing on, on the street or, you know, there's been lawn signs created.

00:10:29:13 - 00:10:44:28
Tom Flood
It's been it's been pretty incredible to see. And it's a big hat tip to the people that are doing the really hard work out there that continue to push, not just messages I create, but, you know, counter messages to what's out there in the mainstream. Yeah.

00:10:45:00 - 00:10:48:19
John Simmerman
What is the name mean? Overflow.

00:10:48:21 - 00:11:01:24
Tom Flood
So, so velo is bicycle, in French. My kids were in French immersion at the time, and the row over the first two initials of my kids names, so I love it. It may not be as pretentious as one might think.

00:11:01:26 - 00:11:50:26
John Simmerman
Well, it's funny, I didn't ask that. You know, in 2022, I was like, oh, I should have asked Tom, what does that name means? That that's it. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. So that is a fascinating, you know, sort of, transformation or evolution, if you will, of, of your career and what started out as, you know, a parent just flabbergasted that, you know, it's so difficult to, to create safe spaces for their kids, to starting to put some messages and create some messages out on social media and, and getting some stickiness and getting some momentum and seeing people like responding positively towards it to suddenly getting invited by cities and getting invited by conferences

00:11:50:26 - 00:12:28:28
John Simmerman
for you to to speak about this. And I think that that's a very, very important thing because as we started by talking about this, opening this, this particular episode, framing is very, very important. And that's why I was so delighted to have Grant in us, you know, from that book, The Dark PR, on here because you realize just how pervasive, that messaging is and the framing of narratives are, because it can start to influence profoundly what becomes the status quo.

00:12:29:01 - 00:12:52:01
Tom Flood
Yeah. I mean, I'm an I'm an example myself. I mean, I worked in, in the automotive advertising industry, this is in Toronto. And I would cycle in every day, you know, spending 10 to 15 minutes fighting ridiculous traffic and dangerous driving and all sorts of things. And then I would spend, you know, 10 to 12 hours a day developing content in that very space.

00:12:52:04 - 00:13:15:13
Tom Flood
And I didn't see it, you know, I wasn't aware of that. So I took it took a real moment of clarity for me to come out of out of that. And so for me, that's what I'm trying to do, if anything in this space is to try to provide some clarity to because I think most people are reasonable, and I think if they're shown something in a manner that's emotional and something that they can relate to, they will have a positive response.

00:13:15:16 - 00:13:27:11
Tom Flood
You know, because to to your point, John, it's been a century of one sided messaging. It's just been so insidious that people don't even realize what they don't have. I didn't realize it, and I was right in the middle of it.

00:13:27:13 - 00:13:55:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. I want to pull up your your website, your work page here because this is kind of a gives us a quick snapshot in quick little square images of all the different types of work that you do and are doing. So yeah, so so let's talk about the, the, the, the new firm and, and what it is you do and, and how people can engage with you.

00:13:55:17 - 00:14:06:09
John Simmerman
I know some cities have even, like, hired you and, but flown you out to the UK to help, with them. So. Yeah. So let's talk about your your work.

00:14:06:11 - 00:14:27:03
Tom Flood
Yeah. I should really update this site. Also, I've worked at promoting this and making this updated on my site. I do a lot of creative development, creative strategy, and then content development, which you can see there at the top, that's, that's a logo. And some content for the Midtown Trail, which is a multi-use path in Sarnia, Ontario.

00:14:27:05 - 00:14:47:11
Tom Flood
That an amazing organization is developing there right now. So they wanted a new name brand. So we put that together for them. Below that is some work with an organization called noise. And they were out of Washington, DC, but now I think based in Denver, and they are youth mobility justice and they are absolutely incredible.

00:14:47:11 - 00:15:08:02
Tom Flood
And that campaign there was, reframe road safety. So speaking of reframing, and it was just trying to highlight, some of the inequities, for certain communities and in a way that would arm some of the youth with really simple, easy messages to relate to the people in their communities. But yeah, so it's creative, it's content, it's strategy.

00:15:08:04 - 00:15:28:24
Tom Flood
And yeah, I've been fortunate enough to be asked to come to a few different places. I was out in Birmingham in England a couple of years ago, I think now, doing a few panels, a workshop, lecture, all sorts of stuff out there. And yeah, it just kind of keeps going. Again, I, I should have a better plan for what I want to do.

00:15:28:24 - 00:15:32:21
Tom Flood
I just, I don't, so but I'll work on that.

00:15:32:23 - 00:16:16:06
John Simmerman
Well, how much do you think that the, you just alluded to the fact that you're just kind of flying by the seat of your pants a little bit, but how much do you think that, that is, is the fact that this wasn't like some, you know, well thought out necessarily business plan that you went through and you spent hours upon developing in your initiate and you're you're doing it the sense that I get, you know, probably not to like, you know, active towns in the way this has evolved into, this content creation media, empire movement that it is, it just kind of like, oh, I'm going to follow this path,

00:16:16:06 - 00:16:22:09
John Simmerman
and then I'm going to follow that path. Is that kind of how things have happened and kind of played out?

00:16:22:11 - 00:16:47:11
Tom Flood
Yeah, that's exactly it, John. It's been, 100% organic. I mean, I've put a work into it, but it's been really just kind of just growing and growing until it's, you know, most of what I've been focusing on the last year or two now and again, it's just that I've been very lucky to work with people and organizations that have really good vision and, and want to make some change and, and want to work together to do that.

00:16:47:11 - 00:16:48:21
Tom Flood
So I've been very lucky.

00:16:48:24 - 00:17:16:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you and I, you know, primarily have been, you know, interfacing over the years out on social media. I've pulled up your, your Instagram page here, on screen and, and again, this is, this is that kind of the whole point is you're, you're creating these messages. You're you're creating these sticky, taglines and things.

00:17:16:03 - 00:17:42:24
John Simmerman
And this is one of my favorites, that you've ever developed. And it's bicycles deliver the freedom that auto ads promise. And you would know since you were producing those auto ads. But this is extraordinary what this is. I'm zooming in on this to, to really get to and highlight what this is. And if you wouldn't mind, can you describe this for the listening only audience?

00:17:42:27 - 00:17:47:02
John Simmerman
Because I think this is really powerful, what it is we're looking at.

00:17:47:04 - 00:17:48:09
Tom Flood
That the actual image.

00:17:48:11 - 00:18:06:21
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Describe this, describe this. You know, again, we have the advantage obviously here on YouTube seeing the visual. But there's going to be a at least, you know, 25 to 30% of the people are going to just be listening to this. Yeah. Go ahead and describe this image that we see on screen. Again. It's super powerful.

00:18:06:24 - 00:18:35:13
Tom Flood
Yeah. There's, a ten by 15ft black and white vinyl outdoor billboard, that says bicycle deliver the free that auto ads promise. It's white. White text on black. And there's a person and her name is Cathy Smith. This is what her picture, just standing in front of this, with, with a bicycle. And this is at a place called the London Bicycle Cafe in London, Ontario, where really, really awesome people and wanted a message up on this space.

00:18:35:15 - 00:18:40:29
Tom Flood
Yeah, of their shop. So it's pretty awesome. When you go there. You can it's ten by 15 is large. So.

00:18:41:02 - 00:19:09:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. And if I zoom out just a little bit too, it's it's not just like with some bicycles there, you know, there's a bicycle rack, there's, there's a bicycle park there, there's a, a really cool urban area there with a trailer that's a pretty snazzy, trailer, that I can't remember the name of it, but it's it's a fantastic, cargo bike set up, which is just freaking amazing.

00:19:09:24 - 00:19:31:16
John Simmerman
But this is this is kind of what I'm getting at is that this is powerful stuff. And again, this was not by design. You didn't go into this thinking, okay, I'm going to create this message. I eat a lot of your messages end up just like looking just like this, where it's just a really quick little quippy thing on black, black and white.

00:19:31:18 - 00:19:41:03
John Simmerman
You didn't plan for this to be done this way. How did this happen? How did it end up on being this big, huge mural?

00:19:41:05 - 00:20:01:15
Tom Flood
Yeah, I mean, that the initial tagline I wrote, I think a couple of years ago now, just on a social media post and, you know, like you said, it was a little sticky. And it's it's someone asked for it on a shirt and I put it on a shirt, and then it kind of grew from there. Then people started asking for for posters.

00:20:01:15 - 00:20:16:21
Tom Flood
But, you know, that was a little bit expensive for shipping for people. So offer download a bunch of files that people could print, wherever they were locally. And this bike shop came out and said, you know, can we we've got the space. Do you want to do you want to put this up? And I said, of course.

00:20:16:21 - 00:20:37:06
Tom Flood
And it kind of just kind of keeps going like that. There's there's a media space in New Zealand that's running these digitally right now. It's a company called, Lucky Doc, and they are free bicycle parking and e-bike charging stations throughout Wellington and maybe further New Zealand as well. And a gentleman by the name of Alex Dyer reached out and said, hey, these guys are really good.

00:20:37:06 - 00:20:51:09
Tom Flood
I think they want to put up your messages. And so they're running on those screens now too. So again, it's it's like I keep saying it, but it's the people that the real change makers on the streets are the ones that are coming to me asking to put it up. And those are the people that are doing the work.

00:20:51:11 - 00:21:01:29
Tom Flood
This, this bicycle shop, bicycle shops, you know, kind of all over are printing these posters and, and putting them up. It's it's their work. I just write a little bit of copy. So I'm happy that it can go somewhere.

00:21:02:02 - 00:21:09:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. And again here's, here's another message on screen. I'll let you go ahead and and introduce it.

00:21:09:09 - 00:21:29:18
Tom Flood
Yeah. It says streets at the top. And we can either design out the conflict or we can design out our kids. It's a simple choice. And that just comes down to a lot of this stuff is rooted really just in my, you know, raising of two kids on our streets here. And it's it's really based on those experiences that it's not complicated.

00:21:29:21 - 00:21:32:25
Tom Flood
It is simple. We just have to want to do it. As you know John.

00:21:32:28 - 00:21:45:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. What do you hear back. You know, on the negative side and the criticism side and say, Tom, you're just thinking about this way to simply.

00:21:45:26 - 00:22:05:24
Tom Flood
Yeah, I, I yeah, I think we have to think about it simply. I think we can't this gets so convoluted, so complicated. And I think that's the exact problem I think people sometimes might relate to some of these messages, because some of them distill it down to, to the core of what it is. I think we've done an amazing job of overcomplicating everything.

00:22:05:27 - 00:22:27:05
Tom Flood
I it's unbelievable, especially when messages have been so one sided for so long. You know, we can see it. For instance, we can see auto ads with, you know, cars driving off cliffs, you know, empty streets, just, you know, everything just completely wild. And then you see one message that says, you know, bicycles deliver the freedom. That message.

00:22:27:10 - 00:22:54:09
Tom Flood
And people, you know, some might be up in arms. It's just it's it's ludicrous. It's it's just. But again, to me, what I think is important is to stay on track with at least client work is that we need to remember that I think people are reasonable. And I think if we have the right, the right content, the right emotion behind it, and we understand who we're speaking to, I think we can make some some inroads with people.

00:22:54:11 - 00:23:01:07
Tom Flood
And not everything I do, John, is meant to, to make change. Some of it is just me venting frustration as well. Of course it.

00:23:01:09 - 00:23:09:01
John Simmerman
Well, and this kind of gets to the this particular message here. I'll let you you go ahead and introduce it to the audience.

00:23:09:04 - 00:23:25:25
Tom Flood
That this just says community. Can we have a safe route for our kids to walk a bike ride to school and city? No one driver might get that. That's the entirety of the discussion. And so that, again, is just again borne out of a lot of issues that we would try to make change. Very simple changes from when my kids were young.

00:23:25:25 - 00:23:44:15
Tom Flood
It just always came down to, you know, there's a few people that are going to potentially complain about this, so we're not going to do that, you know? And again, I know there is there are subtleties and nuances in these conversations. But at the core, when we really think about why we're not doing certain things, you know, we know where we need out.

00:23:44:18 - 00:24:00:21
John Simmerman
And I think that this kind of gets to the point of that very first image on the t shirt that we shared, which is, you know, all I wanted to do as a parent was to be able to walk or bike to school with my kids. And now I spend most of my time at City Hall bat doing battle.

00:24:00:24 - 00:24:38:01
John Simmerman
And I think that that gets to the point of the status quo. It's incredibly hard to change the status quo of our built environment the way that our societies again, in plural, have sort of evolved into being car centric, drive everywhere for everything. And so if you want to change that in other words, you know, hey, is it possible maybe we could just have a safer route to be able to get to, you know, school or other places for our kids and our elderly and everybody else who doesn't drive?

00:24:38:03 - 00:25:11:03
John Simmerman
Again, 30 and 40% of our population are non drivers. Is it possible. Well you know it's it's difficult it's complicated. And even within the city colon even when the city wants to do it, it's that momentum of the status quo of, you know, supporting something that, you know seems like it's everybody wants this. But in reality it isn't necessarily what you just mentioned was that someone might get mad.

00:25:11:03 - 00:25:22:00
John Simmerman
And it may be, again, I'm glad you use the singular here of no, a driver might get mad versus all drivers might get mad.

00:25:22:02 - 00:25:47:03
Tom Flood
Yeah, I mean, I'm a driver myself. I, I've always driven it's it's yeah. You know there's there's there was an assumption early on when I was in this space that, you know what you drive like. Well that just to me is a powerful testament to just how far this has gone. If you if you decide that you want some safer routes for your kids to go to school, then you must not have a car and you must be anti like that's it's ludicrous.

00:25:47:11 - 00:25:50:05
Tom Flood
And that's the stuff that kind of still motivates me.

00:25:50:07 - 00:26:11:24
John Simmerman
Well, and it's funny too, because you do use black and white, as is your primary color scheme. And it is funny how, people just kind of immediately jump to black and white conclusions of, well, clearly if you're this, then you must be that it's a, it's an either or. And it's like, well no. The nuances I also drive to but I'd like to have a mobility choice.

00:26:11:27 - 00:26:15:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, some nuance and some options.

00:26:15:09 - 00:26:28:00
Tom Flood
People will sometimes say, well, how come you don't talk about driving? Well, I mean, if I don't even answer a lot of these questions anymore. But back there, like, I think I think the auto industry has enough help with promoting driving. I don't think we need to worry about that right now.

00:26:28:03 - 00:26:55:20
John Simmerman
Well, that's why I was so delighted to have, Ethan Tufts on the channel. From the channel Hello Road, because he's a car enthusiast. And so he really was coming about, you know, this concept of, you know what, this car addiction, a car dependency really sucks. And even as a car enthusiast, I, you know, I don't get joy out of sitting in traffic and, you know, being in congestion.

00:26:55:20 - 00:27:07:01
John Simmerman
And as a parent, that was one of the things that really triggered for him. Same thing as a parent, he wanted to be able to go places with his kids by walking and biking.

00:27:07:04 - 00:27:21:19
Tom Flood
And join us as the kids get older, too. It's for me, it was I want them out of the house. I want to sit back selfishly and drink coffee while they go off to school safely and independently. I mean, there's selfish reasons that parents should want their kids to be able to have those options.

00:27:21:21 - 00:27:45:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Talk a little bit about, since we're here on your, your Instagram and we'll just kind of, you know, scroll through a few of the different things, talk a little bit about, you know, this process, the social media environment and, and, you know, because that's been a core to your new business and, and how that's been doing.

00:27:45:17 - 00:27:53:26
John Simmerman
So talk a little bit about that evolution over the last five years, in social media and producing the content and getting it out there.

00:27:53:29 - 00:28:15:07
Tom Flood
Yeah, sure. I mean, I, I had no real experience in social media when I was starting out. I still don't think I use it to the extent it could be done. But, it was pretty amazing to see messages travel at the very beginning. And to really be able to connect with people all over the world. And I know it sounds really cliche, but to me it was very new.

00:28:15:09 - 00:28:37:27
Tom Flood
It was very interesting to see that we all share these very similar issues in our in our streets for just very regular, you know, average parents like, like myself, had the same, same experiences. So that was that was really eye opening. I kind of moved over from that other site, to, to where I spent a lot of time on Instagram now.

00:28:38:00 - 00:29:02:13
Tom Flood
And really, for me, I like Instagram because you can have music on it, and music is a big part of my life, and I find music really evokes obviously emotion. And I think that's a powerful tool, in communications and marketing. So, yeah, it's been great. I mean, there's some people that are doing it so, so well, I would think I'm average at best using social media, but it's connected to, a lot of people.

00:29:02:15 - 00:29:23:15
John Simmerman
What's funny, I'm scrolling backwards now to, to look at that because you mentioned that. Yeah. Music. And obviously we're not playing any of the music because YouTube has very, very strict copyright, music copyright rules, for me to be able to do this, but, yeah, what's funny too, is that, you know, I'm, I'm, I sort of came of age in the 1980s.

00:29:23:15 - 00:29:41:09
John Simmerman
And so, you know, very you and I have a lot of the same, musical interests and the cure and, and some other, you know, good stuff. New order. These are all bands that I used to play all the time and also listened to. And, I can remember going to the New Order concert as well in Los Angeles, and so.

00:29:41:12 - 00:30:09:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. And and I think that that's an interesting reflection, though, that you, you have two of the that connection with the audience putting this content out, giving it a little bit of your own personality with some music, you know, to it and this particular, image that we have on screen right now that's entitled Culture Shift.

00:30:09:29 - 00:30:31:12
John Simmerman
And so I talk a lot about here on the channel about creating the platform, creating the environment so that we can create a culture of activity. In other words, we're really supporting humans to be able to live a healthy, active lifestyle, including active mobility. Walk us through this one. It's a it's a little bit more complicated. You don't have to read through all of them.

00:30:31:12 - 00:30:46:18
John Simmerman
You know, folks can can get this, but it really kind of sets the stage for the challenge we have when we try to do something that's counter to the norm, the status quo.

00:30:46:21 - 00:31:07:28
Tom Flood
Yeah, this this one was done with a partner, which we can't see the name there, but it's the biking lawyer because the music is covering it. But it's, the biking lawyer in Toronto, so we developed this together. But for the people just listening, it's, you know, two columns. One says normal, one says radical. Under normal, you'll see, like accepting road violence, accepting road fatalities.

00:31:07:28 - 00:31:35:08
Tom Flood
On the radical side, you see, willing to or wanting to prevent road violence, wanting to prevent road fatalities. And just the opposite. And it's at the bottom. There's this long list on there, but on the bottom, it says it's time to rethink what's considered normal on our streets. And again, it comes back to what, you know, rooted me in this before being told by a counselor I was radical for wanting some safe spaces and safe routes for some people to get to school.

00:31:35:08 - 00:32:03:14
Tom Flood
And it just it really stuck with me. But I think it's I think it's important for people to see what we have deemed normal versus what we've deemed radical, and really start to understand that the things that we want are not radical at all. And most of us again, but common ground at middle ground who haven't had their moment of clarity yet, really, if they have stopped to think about it, you know, we'll realize these things aren't so fringe after all, even though that's been sold to them for a for a long, long time.

00:32:03:17 - 00:32:17:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. And speaking of of radical the, the the in your household your, your your big radicals are right here. These anti-caa radicals.

00:32:17:23 - 00:32:39:24
Tom Flood
Yeah. That's that's my youngest kid. And again they're 11 and 13 now. But that's that was our route to school. Good. Good. Never really good memories doing that. I mean, it's it's it's, it's the balance, right? In this space where you love the bike to ride to school, you love to walk to school. But there's also such chaotic moments that drive you, you know, you know, to make change.

00:32:39:27 - 00:33:11:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. You mentioned it earlier too, because, you know, they do grow up, you know. Yeah. This this was started. You really got motivated to do stuff when they were much younger. Now they're teens. And, some of the common themes that come up here on the channel are, you know, that concept of free range kids, of children being able to get around their communities because the community is inherently safe for them to do so.

00:33:11:09 - 00:33:41:13
John Simmerman
And so we end up profiling frequently. You know, especially in Central Europe, I spend a lot of time in the Netherlands, and we talk a lot about just how incredibly empowering that is for, you know, children, especially teens, to be able to, you know, get away from their screens and get out in real life to be with their friends and be able to get around safely in their community and really just, like, live their best lives as children.

00:33:41:15 - 00:33:53:10
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about that as a parent in which you're, you're hoping to see and into frame that to start us off, I don't know that you mentioned where the hell you live.

00:33:53:12 - 00:33:59:07
Tom Flood
I know I'm I'm in Hamilton, Ontario, which is about 45 minutes west of Toronto.

00:33:59:09 - 00:34:02:20
John Simmerman
Oh, so you mean you're not one of those big city elites?

00:34:02:22 - 00:34:23:06
Tom Flood
Not. Not anymore. We were for a while, I guess, but, yeah. No, we're we've been here for ten years now. Okay. And to talk about kind of, you know, youth independence is that's. Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is the goal. When we're lucky, we have a park right down the street that the kids can walk to.

00:34:23:08 - 00:34:46:06
Tom Flood
And over the last number of years, they've been old enough to go on their own, and I kind of ship them that way. And there's a hockey rink in the winter. These kids can stay out there for four hours, five hours straight. You know, kids don't always want to be on screens if you give them the opportunity and the places, and the routes to get there, they will choose that.

00:34:46:06 - 00:35:14:13
Tom Flood
I can't say every kid, but there's a good chunk that will prefer to be out and about with their friends doing something that's out of the house. I as a parent, I absolutely love when my kids don't come home from school and they are just out for the afternoon when they're out, you know, on the local main street or just somewhere with their friends, I, I we're very fortunate that we have some places here that it's an opportunity for them with their school and where we live.

00:35:14:15 - 00:35:30:27
Tom Flood
I know that's not the case for everybody, but it is unbelievable the mental change when they are out with their friends and have opportunities to do things without us, which is is really the goal. And it's a goal for a couple of reasons. One, it's so empowering for them. As you know, John, they they just they just feel better.

00:35:30:27 - 00:35:46:15
Tom Flood
They want that independence. They crave it. And two, it gives me some free time as well as a parent like I like I said, these are not just, you know, crazy radical things. I think any parent might want some extra time, maybe without their kids knowing that they're having a blast outside with their friends.

00:35:46:17 - 00:36:17:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to pop over to, back over to to Instagram and, and pull this, particular, post that you had, on, on screen. We've got, in, in frame here. We have another past guest, here on the pod, land. Rick. And, this brings up a challenge. This brings up a problem that we have, and I think I think it's appropriate that you had, the song Nine Inch Nails were in this together.

00:36:17:06 - 00:36:29:19
John Simmerman
You know, for for this particular post, go ahead and frame this, because I think this is interesting to to see the challenge that you all are going through up there in, Ontario.

00:36:29:19 - 00:36:59:07
Tom Flood
Yeah, yeah. So, so the the picture is, our friend land Rick Leonard Bennett Jr, on screen, split screen on CBC news and I think in this one, he was talking, about the proposed potential, stoppage of any sort of bicycle infrastructure going in Ontario. If it's going to remove a vehicle Lane. And that's what we're kind of up against in Ontario with our, our premier, Doug Ford, who is oh my.

00:36:59:07 - 00:37:00:26
John Simmerman
God, you said his name.

00:37:00:28 - 00:37:02:13
Tom Flood
I said it, I said I thought.

00:37:02:13 - 00:37:06:16
John Simmerman
I thought it was almost like Voldemort. We don't we don't do that.

00:37:06:18 - 00:37:24:08
Tom Flood
But, we are very lucky to have people like land. Rick, you know, advocating and doing the hard work every day. He was bicycle mayor for a number of years in Toronto and, you know, a constant advocate. I got to know him as a as a dad first. And we really connected. And I found out he enjoyed Nine Inch Nails.

00:37:24:08 - 00:37:26:01
Tom Flood
So that's how we blossomed.

00:37:26:01 - 00:37:38:14
John Simmerman
Our relationship I love it I love it. Yeah. I'm joking around. About Ford. But yeah, I saw that coming out that, that's not a done deal, I hope. Right?

00:37:38:16 - 00:37:50:27
Tom Flood
No, it was it was just rumors coming out. But, I mean, we're we're hoping nothing comes of that. You know, there's always something with with, Premier Ford, and that's a whole other episode.

00:37:51:03 - 00:38:18:25
John Simmerman
It. Yeah. And it's a whole other episode. And there's history behind this, of course, with his late brother. You know, he that's where the phrase war on cars kinds of kind of comes from. It comes from multiple locations. But, you know, he was infamous or saying, you know, we're going to put an end to this war on cars, referring to, you know, infrastructure that's actually, you know, makes it safe for people to be able to walk and bike to meaningful destinations.

00:38:18:27 - 00:38:22:26
Tom Flood
That's right. Them that's the mainstream narrative that was out there. Yeah. Unbelievable.

00:38:22:28 - 00:38:29:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Tom, what other updates do you have for us? On what's going on?

00:38:29:25 - 00:38:48:18
Tom Flood
You know, I, I should have been more prepared with better updates. Continue to work, but. Yeah, just lots of creative work coming up. This year I think I'm going to be back doing a few more talks and, and lectures, and I think I'm currently kind of planning spring of, of next year of 2025 to do some of those.

00:38:48:18 - 00:38:58:20
Tom Flood
I just really had my head down in creative and strategy work the last year and a half or so. So yeah, that's that's it for me. As far as updates, I wish I had more. John.

00:38:58:23 - 00:39:06:17
John Simmerman
Well, talk a little bit about the experience you were not presenting at, as Strong Towns, right? You were just kind of absorbing.

00:39:06:19 - 00:39:26:11
Tom Flood
Yeah, I was there with a group that I do work with here in Hamilton, a local group called the Daily School Route. And they're an incredible organization. Their aspiration is to get 100% of kids who are able to walk, bike and roll the school. And over the last year, we were able to actually get into school as a part of curriculum.

00:39:26:13 - 00:39:56:13
Tom Flood
Talking about placemaking and talking to kids about their routes to school and having them redesign their routes to school using tools that they can relate to. For example, Minecraft or, you know, different, different tools. But Minecraft was one that many kids liked, and this was the grade five cohort, which was which was the age we found that was kind of that sweet spot of just on the cusp of autonomy, but not, you know, grade 7 or 8 where they can kind of go wherever they want.

00:39:56:13 - 00:40:13:01
Tom Flood
So it was a really good class to work with. So anyways, they redesigned their routes to school and that they presented to the local counselor at the end of the year, really, really incredible program, which is going to be growing this year in Hamilton. So we'll be doing a lot of that work this year. But to answer your question, I was there with them and it was a yeah, it was a great, great time.

00:40:13:01 - 00:40:16:07
Tom Flood
It's my first time going to Strong Towns and it's very interesting.

00:40:16:09 - 00:40:35:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. And one of the things that I and I'll never forget this, you know, on that final day, at the, at the, at the gathering, Dan Burton had a, a presentation and as often is the case when you're a content creator, you know, folks will, like, love an image. And it wasn't this image.

00:40:35:23 - 00:40:54:29
John Simmerman
I can't remember exactly which one it was. It might have been the one of your child in the bike lane next to the massive truck or something like that. But Dan had one of your your photos, and I immediately turned around and looked across the room and saw you and and you you even I can't eye contact. I was like, yep.

00:40:55:00 - 00:40:56:10
John Simmerman
No, we saw that.

00:40:56:12 - 00:40:58:21
Tom Flood
Yeah, yeah, that was pretty funny.

00:40:58:24 - 00:41:28:08
John Simmerman
It's it's got to be flattering for you to see how sticky all of these things are and that people are grabbing them these images, to the best of my knowledge, nobody's doing things that are too terribly nefarious. But, you know, having somebody a luminary like Dan Burton, you know, profile one of your photos, you know, in his keynote presentation, it's got to be a pretty cool thing to to see and feel.

00:41:28:10 - 00:41:52:27
Tom Flood
Yeah, it's it's honestly been an amazing experience to see that because, again, these are people that really know this space and know this stuff better than I will ever know. And so, yeah, it's it's nice. I mean, originally these things were just built as a place to vent frustration. And they still are. But to see some of them travel further and, and resonate with people that really understand this world is a huge compliment.

00:41:53:00 - 00:42:25:23
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we've got to the Instagram back on online here and we've got, a video that's kind of, looping through a little bit here. And, and it kind of gives the breadth of sort of what you're doing is that you put photographs out, you put your graphics out. Sometimes you've got some video clips that are out there as well, and, you talk a little bit more about your strategy, kind of how it's evolved and moving forward.

00:42:25:25 - 00:42:57:08
Tom Flood
Yeah, I mean, I again, I wish I had a better strategic plan. John but I what I think for me, what I find interesting is, is obviously the visual arts and people connecting with, with imagery and, and hopefully relatively tight and interesting copy and video. So I just overall, I think what I want to accomplish, if anything, is again, to help wake up the middle ground by using, you know, similar techniques that mainstream marketing uses.

00:42:57:15 - 00:43:20:02
Tom Flood
And that's kind of the goal is that we can start marketing different, you know, you know, active transportation, road safety, whatever it is, in a similar way that we, you know, sell vehicles or we sell products, with that same kind of emotional attachment, relatable attachment and, and keeping things as simple as possible so that people can understand them clearly.

00:43:20:04 - 00:43:30:02
John Simmerman
And, I finally turn that loop off. But, that was cool because that was you shooting that and that was you. Was that your new bike?

00:43:30:04 - 00:43:47:09
Tom Flood
Yeah. I'm, I've been using the the good people that recent Mueller and curbside cycle in Toronto, have let me borrow a bike for the last few months, and it's incredible. It's, it's a load 60 and it's been a I'm not from the cargo bike world. This was my first one. It's it's been a it's incredible too.

00:43:47:09 - 00:43:48:00
Tom Flood
Game changer.

00:43:48:00 - 00:44:07:11
John Simmerman
Yeah I know it really is. You know having the having electric assist just in general is incredibly game changing. But being able to make a trip to Ikea, which is what you were doing there. Again, things that in the past people were like, oh, well, what about if I need this, you know, you need a car.

00:44:07:17 - 00:44:34:17
John Simmerman
Well, you know, those those types of vehicles, those cargo bikes really kind of, change things a lot. The I kind of like to wrap up with, a theme. There's many different aspects to this theme, but let's pull this image up on screen here. And it is a theme that has emerged over the last 80 to 100 years.

00:44:34:19 - 00:45:02:22
John Simmerman
And Peter Naunton does a good job of kind of outlining the history of this theme. And, and again, going back to Grant in his book on reframing, you had mentioned earlier, of of the tendency to make things seem complicated. Well, that is actually a reframing device that Motor Team uses another reframing device is to point the fingers at somebody else and victim blaming walk us through what we're looking at on screen here.

00:45:02:24 - 00:45:18:18
Tom Flood
Well, there is a picture of a lion and there is some text that says, handing out hi vis to people on bikes instead of building protected bike lanes is like giving patrons in the lion area of the zoo camouflage clothes instead of building fences. And then it says, be safe, be unseen.

00:45:18:20 - 00:46:05:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's it's this weird thing that immediately sort of emerge, as the automobile started taking over our streets. And it was very, very intentional. I have to really emphasize the fact that this was an intentional, intentional strategy by motor team, including, at the time, the Automobile Association's Triple-A of the day of the time. Back then, they were very powerful because they were trying to normalize driving everywhere, and so they wanted to shift the blame away from the quote unquote nut behind the wheel, which is also a shifting of responsibility to away from the car, the actual device, as well as the system, the streets, etc..

00:46:05:03 - 00:46:22:08
John Simmerman
And try to blame somebody else other than motor dumb. And so, yeah, this is a form of a victim blaming when we say, oh, did the cyclist have a helmet on? Oh, did the kids have headphones? And oh were they not wearing bright clothing. Yeah.

00:46:22:10 - 00:46:46:01
Tom Flood
Yeah. It's it's. Yeah. And that that foundation was laid and it's continued on forever into these cyclical campaigns, which is all we consider mainstream road safety now is, oh, it's October. It's going to be dark soon. So roll out the same, you know, box checking campaigns. Be bright you know. Oh it's schools and watch out for kids. You know like it's the same thing over and over and over every year.

00:46:46:01 - 00:47:09:21
Tom Flood
We say it from the same organizations, you know, but it's it's obviously extremely problematic, especially when it's coming from voices of authority, which people do listen to. People see these these messages being mainstreamed by police, by cities, by organizations. And it just continually builds on and on and on. So the first thought is like you just said, John, well, did the kid look both ways, you know, was he wearing headphones?

00:47:09:21 - 00:47:25:24
Tom Flood
A God forbid a kid listens to music walking to school, like, how do you know how far we've fallen? Like we killers? It's just it's unbelievable. And that's the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. And a lot of the stuff that I talk about in some of these workshops and lectures, because it's it's still so pervasive. It's still there.

00:47:25:24 - 00:47:33:15
Tom Flood
It's it's it's the first thing you read every single time where they wearing dark clothing. It's just unbelievable.

00:47:33:18 - 00:48:04:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. And it's in, in it. It's also important to understand just how pervasive this is. In Walker, out of Wales, professor, out of Wales, writes about, motor normativity, car brain thinking and just how incredibly insidious it is that even people who don't own a motor vehicle have been so profoundly impacted by the status quo of driving everywhere for everything.

00:48:04:12 - 00:48:38:23
John Simmerman
And the benefit of the doubt given to the drivers and to the system that is, you know, our automobile infrastructure and orientation of building, transforming our cities into car only places. It's it's really, really difficult, I think, to to change that narrative. I'm thinking the, the stickiness of some of your messages gives us some hope that especially when we poke fun at it a little bit, I'm not very good at being snarky.

00:48:38:23 - 00:49:05:21
John Simmerman
You're much better at doing this and like poking people with these narratives. Do you think it's sinking in? Do you get that sense since you've been doing this, that since these messages are being, you know, adopted so enthusiastically, things are starting to to gain awareness outside of our bubble? Because I just don't want to think that or messages are just bouncing around inside of our urbanism.

00:49:05:23 - 00:49:08:24
John Simmerman
An active transportation bubble.

00:49:08:27 - 00:49:28:20
Tom Flood
Yeah. I mean, that's that's the ultimate goal. And I mean, main mainstreaming messages has been if I've had a goal, I had I guess I've said a couple now, but have some of these counter messages being seen and visible to a more mainstream and broader audience is something that I think is really important. Do I think that change is happening?

00:49:28:20 - 00:49:52:23
Tom Flood
I, you know, it's really hard to measure. But for me, even these small, these small pieces getting out and being visible is important. I think. I think we need we need every when we can get and you know, if for me, if we're not trying, then, you know, what's the alternative? So I hope so. I mean, I feel pretty lucky that there's, there's again, keypad tapping.

00:49:52:23 - 00:50:13:29
Tom Flood
But organizations that are doing a lot of this work, creating some messages, putting them out and making the hard change in their communities. And that's that's what kind of inspires me and gives me hope, is seeing the people that are so dedicated. And when people take some of these messages, it's extremely inspiring. It keeps me, keeps me going, that's for sure.

00:50:14:02 - 00:50:29:19
John Simmerman
And I love the fact that, you know, the guerilla marketing side of of stuff, you know, continues to to exist here. To, to close this out, why don't you introduce this particular, image and, and what it says?

00:50:29:21 - 00:50:45:23
Tom Flood
Yeah, this looks to be a light pole with, a black and white poster taped, taped on as you would, for which I used to do with my band is tape them all up all over Toronto. It says we ask everyone outside of the car to be safe so that drivers can be dangerous. That's the entirety of our approach to road safety.

00:50:45:26 - 00:51:00:20
Tom Flood
And so it's just taped on this pole, and a lot of them have been put up close to intersections or close to intersections where there's some victim blaming in infrastructure or language or spaces. So yeah, it's pretty pretty powerful to see these out there.

00:51:00:22 - 00:51:21:01
John Simmerman
And this, this is coming from I mean, I was just out on your website and I went into your shop and you do sell some of your messages in small, little stickers, but they're like two inch by three inch. How are people getting Ahold of these and, and then distributing them all over the world.

00:51:21:03 - 00:51:35:27
Tom Flood
So yeah, this was again pretty organic. People were asking, can can I have these messages? And so I just set up downloadable files from my website so you can just print them off, or save them from my site and then print them off and do as you wish with them.

00:51:36:00 - 00:51:58:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, and just to to emphasize, too, that you do have some depth and breadth to your creativity. It's not always just black and white. You you've got some other fun ones here. Like this is one of my favorites, where it's like this sort of fake, is this like a fake magazine cover or. No, this is like a fake movie poster.

00:51:58:23 - 00:52:12:21
Tom Flood
Yeah, it's like a fake movie poster with kind of like a. Yeah. Just says she she just wanted to go for a bike ride. Now, parking minimums haunt her dreams. And I guess just all the stuff that we can maybe relate to from being in this space.

00:52:12:23 - 00:52:39:20
John Simmerman
And play with and one of my favorites is your, your sort of play on, again, famous sort of of movies once you set up the, the really fun poster that you put, together that pokes fun or, you know, kind of leans into the theme of the radical kids out on bikes. And, that famous movie, that everybody will know about.

00:52:39:20 - 00:53:01:20
Tom Flood
Oh, right. Is that okay? Yeah, I so I'm a huge fan of The Sound of Music, which I think you might be referring to. And, there's a there's a poster made a long time ago with the shot of Maria von Trapp, Julie Andrews and, and and, and all the kids biking that many people probably know. And it just says it's kind of done up to look like an old kind of record.

00:53:01:20 - 00:53:22:15
Tom Flood
And it says, meet the Radical Cyclists. And it's got the track listing of, you know, no height is no light, no helmets, no shoes. And it's just kind of a play off, you know, these are kind of the textbook radical anti car cyclists that, our culture seems to, despise when it's obviously just some people biking and having some fun singing songs.

00:53:22:17 - 00:53:23:03
Tom Flood
Yeah.

00:53:23:05 - 00:53:37:14
John Simmerman
And yes, you can get that on a T-shirt as well. Man, it has been so much fun catching up with you again, Tom. You know, keep up the great work. Keep on keeping on.

00:53:37:16 - 00:53:40:04
Tom Flood
Yeah. Thanks a lot, Joan. Really appreciate it and everything you do.

00:53:40:07 - 00:53:54:28
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tom fun. If you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored! Have you subscribed to the channel? Just click on that subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

00:53:55:00 - 00:54:14:04
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the channel, please consider supporting my efforts. It's easy to do. Just head on over to Active towns.org. And click on that support tab at the top of the page. Many different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter. Patrons do get access to all this video content early and ad free. I can thank you so much for tuning in.

00:54:14:04 - 00:54:39:19
John Simmerman
It really means so much to me. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks! As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

00:54:39:21 - 00:54:40:28
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much!