Transcript exported from the video version of this episode - Note that it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:09:09
John Simmerman
This is what we're talking about here when we talk about trying to change the environment for the better, for the positive, to encourage people to be able to to get around.

00:00:09:27 - 00:00:28:09
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. And I love this woman with her with the basket on her bike and two baskets. It's this is. And look at the dress she's wearing. This is a very dignified way to age. It's a dignified way to get around. If you don't have mobility, it's and or you don't want to spend the money. And that's you talk to Gen ZERS.

00:00:28:09 - 00:00:36:18
Lindsay Sturman
They don't want to own cars. Volkswagen did a study and I think like more than 60% of Gen Zers never want to own a car. Well, that's interesting. Yeah.

00:00:37:13 - 00:01:04:13
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. I'm John Simmerman and that is Lindsay Sturman with the Livable Communities Initiative in Los Angeles, California. This is a fantastic discussion about the amazing work that they are doing on the ground there. It's a long one, though, so we're going to jump right into it with Lindsay. Enjoy. Lindsay Sturman, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns Podcast.

00:01:04:13 - 00:01:04:29
John Simmerman
Welcome.

00:01:06:07 - 00:01:08:18
Lindsay Sturman
Thank you, John. I'm so excited to be here.

00:01:09:19 - 00:01:17:12
John Simmerman
Lindsay. I love how my guests just give a quick introduction to themselves. So please, who is Lindsay?

00:01:17:12 - 00:01:38:10
Lindsay Sturman
Thank you. Yeah, I am. I'm on Twitter. Lindsay loves bikes and I have a podcast called Bike Talk. I'm the co-host and I got really obsessed with bikes a few years ago, and I just think they're the key. The more you learn about them, the more you see how much they unlock in sort of like are the issues of a city.

00:01:39:03 - 00:01:57:09
Lindsay Sturman
One way to somebody pointed out this way and I'm just like, I get to hear all these stories about bikes and if you're on bike Twitter, you know you're reading about it. And then with the podcast, I'm able to interview, you know, a Dutch expert on infrastructure. And the more you learn, as I said, that cities really work best.

00:01:57:22 - 00:02:23:17
Lindsay Sturman
You know, obviously walkable cities worked for thousands of years. We invented cities 11,000 years ago, but bikes really go with trolleys to make a city work and cars worked for a while. But we've sort of overrun our cities and we know that, you know, it doesn't you know, you can't keep expanding roads. We know induced demand. So bikes hold this key to making mobility work, but they also actually are the key that makes housing work.

00:02:23:26 - 00:02:52:01
Lindsay Sturman
And so that's what we this group, the Livable Communities Initiative, which I am so excited to tell you about, sort of discovered. And then we're a sprawling group that you know, some where between 25 and a hundred people, experts from UCLA architects, urbanists, experts in mobility who have come together to try to understand how we got to the crisis we're in and come up with a framework and a plan to get us out, hopefully.

00:02:52:21 - 00:03:18:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned Twitter and we all tend to spend a little bit of time out on on Twitter, by Twitter, by Twitter is still strong out there. And so yeah. So there you are. Lindsey loves bikes out on on Twitter so so folks if if you're not already following Lindsay you definitely want to do that. So yeah, we're going to talk we're going to talk all about this, this amazing group.

00:03:18:25 - 00:03:39:03
John Simmerman
And I'm glad I love the way you sort of described it. It's kind of this whole very, very varied group of folks that have come together for the Livable Communities Initiative. Where did that initial sort of seed get planted? Who really came up with this idea?

00:03:40:13 - 00:04:05:03
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah, So we we're a group of about 3000 activists. My neighborhood is it's called Larchmont, where we're in sort of the Hollywood area of Los Angeles. And we, you know, we knock doors, we phone bank for progressive causes and we wanted to understand the housing crisis. And we it was during COVID and we L.A. just has an absolute tragedy going on, right?

00:04:05:03 - 00:04:26:24
Lindsay Sturman
It's like our unhoused neighbors who people we all care very deeply about. Everybody in the city wants to figure out how to fix this, and we can't build housing. So my neighbor who runs this group, Hodge, hang out to good. It's really wonderful and warm. And she got us together. She called the housing huddle. Let's understand this. And, you know, so we we did a ton of research.

00:04:26:24 - 00:04:41:29
Lindsay Sturman
We honestly read like one guy in our group read thousands of pages in the Turner Center at Berkeley. Like, what is they study the cost of housing in California. Like, we you know, we're kind of nerdy and wonky. So I literally signed up for office hours with professors at UCLA. You can sign up online, you get 10 minutes.

00:04:42:09 - 00:05:01:05
Lindsay Sturman
So you explain this to me very quickly. So as we were delving into it, we came to realize a few things. We have to build housing That's in dispute because there's been a war going on in many cities across America. We hear this about where should we put our housing, how do we build our housing? And we're we took the tack.

00:05:01:05 - 00:05:20:18
Lindsay Sturman
We're going to accept the data, we're going to accept the research. We're not going to sit here and quibble. We're not experts. And the data really is clear that we need to build in L.A. somewhere between five and 1000 units of housing and a million units of housing. And it affects because we have a scarcity, our rents are twice what they should be, and that's what's driving our crisis.

00:05:20:18 - 00:05:42:26
Lindsay Sturman
And it's kind of counterintuitive or it's like a couple steps, but once you kind of see it, it's like, okay, we need to build housing. And then we had conversations. A lot of difficult conversations, and we talked to NIMBYs. I'm a bit of a Yimby. I kind of came in as a zombie, but we tried to figure out how to find common ground and that's what we do as activists.

00:05:42:26 - 00:05:48:21
Lindsay Sturman
You doorknock and you try to meet people where they are and convince them to vote for your candidate. So we we did a lot of listening.

00:05:49:20 - 00:06:18:09
John Simmerman
And you don't have to go very far into into this to realize that these issues are all interrelated and connected. And so we look at land use and in the zoning that is involved with that, you look at mobility and parking minimum requirements and it's like, Oh, wait a minute, this is all interrelated, interconnected. You all have a wonderful five minute video.

00:06:18:22 - 00:06:26:03
John Simmerman
I propose that we go ahead and play that video now and then you and I can come back and talk and reflect on this a little bit.

00:06:26:25 - 00:06:49:06
LCI Video voiceover
The Los Angeles housing crisis is twofold. The part we all see in our neighborhoods, tents and the encampments, and the part where everyday people can't afford housing near their jobs and in the neighborhoods where they want to live. So they have to live far away and deal with super commutes just to exist in Los Angeles. There are incredible programs to support our unhoused neighbors.

00:06:49:06 - 00:07:12:27
LCI Video voiceover
But the homeless crisis is interconnected with the housing shortage, and every day more people fall into homelessness than we house. We need more homes if we're going to fix the problem. Builders lose money when they build small, affordable units. This is a housing and human dignity crisis, and to address it, we need to build more housing almost 500,000 units.

00:07:13:01 - 00:07:37:23
LCI Video voiceover
And in neighborhoods where the jobs are like Culver City, the West Side and Hollywood that haven't built their fair share of affordable housing and bringing community driven revitalization for neighborhoods that haven't had their fair share of amenities. Why hasn't this been fixed? Because stakeholders can't agree where to put the housing. And when neighbors fight the housing, it starts a domino effect.

00:07:37:23 - 00:08:10:06
LCI Video voiceover
Neighbors are concerned about esthetics around residential houses, more neighborhood traffic and, of course, parking. We keep saying no, but what if there was something we could say yes to? What if we could create walkable, vibrant, mixed use streets by building up on a few of our commercial corridors? We could have alfresco dining, wide sidewalks, slower cars and fewer of them tree canopies, more local businesses, and even safe bike lanes, which gets us to the metro to go anywhere we need to without using our cars.

00:08:10:21 - 00:08:37:29
LCI Video voiceover
We'd essentially be creating a 15 minute city, meaning we could get to the most things we need within 15 minutes. And similar to places like New York and Boston, we can park a few blocks away in a parking structure, grab our cars when we need them. Truly a great way to live a light life. Most people want to live in a walkable neighborhood, so much so that it can increase nearby property values by 15%.

00:08:38:16 - 00:08:59:02
LCI Video voiceover
And you can live here without a car. And the thing that makes it so expensive to build housing is building parking. The parking can cost more than the unit and makes rents so expensive. Right now the laws we have in place make it so builders almost always build luxury. The housing. We don't want. Get rid of the parking and make it so builders build the housing.

00:08:59:02 - 00:09:24:15
LCI Video voiceover
We do want small, affordable units and walkable neighborhoods. Picture Westwood Boulevard on one end. It terminates in Westwood Village and on the other in a residential area. Since people don't want major traffic in their neighborhoods anyway. And you've got the purple line as well as Povera and the four of five right there. This street is a great candidate for building up.

00:09:24:15 - 00:09:54:00
LCI Video voiceover
Plus, 63,000 people commute into Westwood for work every day and UCLA doesn't house all of their students approximately 20% commute in. We worked with Koreatown artist in a two hour tape Benitez to do a before and after. Here's Westwood before and here's after. You add the trees, slow the cars down, keep the parking, the stores stay, and then you build housing on top.

00:09:54:00 - 00:10:17:05
LCI Video voiceover
We worked with an architect to design a building, and this 1.5 miles stretch has the capacity for over 16,000 new units. Let's look at Pico Boulevard, which is similarly poised for this because it's super under belt. But with these amazing pockets of community and restaurants, if you check out the street mix, which is basically a side view of the street, right now, it's just cars.

00:10:17:13 - 00:10:46:15
LCI Video voiceover
There's no design. What it could look like, this dedicated bus line that runs like a train, bike lanes or even a trolley, which is so L.A. it's not just a housing crisis. It's a crisis for working families and their pocketbooks, along with a moral crisis and a climate crisis building like this reverse engineered suburban sprawl. This is a tool from UC Berkeley that shows greenhouse gas or GHG reduction.

00:10:47:07 - 00:11:12:25
LCI Video voiceover
If you look at VMT reduction, which is vehicle miles traveled, a.k.a. less driving and urban infill is building near jobs, LCI combines both and we'll need to do this anyway because of the climate crisis and Los Angeles has dire need to reduce emissions. These Teslas aren't going to cut it. Our city can't do this without drastically cutting traffic.

00:11:12:25 - 00:11:41:06
LCI Video voiceover
This is the real old L.A. trolleys and famously cheap housing. We want to do this fast with urgency and center. The most affected our unhoused neighbors so far. The L.A. City Council has included LCI and their housing element with their eight year plan to build housing at the end of the day, this is really just a zoning change so that we can build up and opportune areas and ultimately improve the quality of life for everyone.

00:11:41:18 - 00:12:15:25
LCI Video voiceover
Instead of luxury buildings and high rise towers. Let's build the housing we do want. And what's that? Affordable models small and medium size apartments and walkable car light neighborhoods all at zero cost to taxpayers to focus our limited public funding on the most vulnerable, attainable homeowner opportunities for those who want them. So everybody can build equity and we can close the intergenerational racial wealth gap.

00:12:15:25 - 00:12:37:01
John Simmerman
Brilliant. Wow. That you know that video? I watched it. That's the third time this morning. I've watched it. So fantastic. Well, very, very well done. What is the response been like to that video thus far?

00:12:37:11 - 00:12:39:20
Lindsay Sturman
Okay. So what's the response to the video?

00:12:39:24 - 00:12:40:12
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:12:41:07 - 00:12:59:18
Lindsay Sturman
I think a lot of people really get it because people care, right? They care about the housing crisis, they care about high rents, they care about all aspects of it. And I think they could see a solution. It's hard for Angelinos to get over the cars. That's like that's our biggest thing. We have to tiptoe around and kind of walk people through.

00:12:59:18 - 00:13:19:12
Lindsay Sturman
And, you know, as I said, meet people where they are. But I think people are starting to get it. And then that was actually about a year ago. And we keep expanding it. And what's interesting is people come at us with questions and then we go out, we try to find the answer. We take every question seriously, every concern, because it's it's like Obamacare.

00:13:19:12 - 00:13:36:21
Lindsay Sturman
It has to work. You can't just throw a policy out there that's going to be you know, that's like designed, you know, it can have flaws. Right now, we've created a lot of programs that work, but they don't scale. And we want something that scales to meet the scope of the crisis. Right. Right.

00:13:37:13 - 00:13:54:15
John Simmerman
So one of the visuals that that was used in there is is a beautiful visual of the 15 minute city. Of course, the 15 minute city became infamous this past week. Yeah. Because the because the conspiracy theorist decided to grab a hold of it.

00:13:54:26 - 00:13:56:23
Lindsay Sturman
But that's what we know. It's great.

00:13:57:09 - 00:14:27:17
John Simmerman
Exactly. It's but I mean, I just I was like, what the. You got to be kidding me. But I'm glad that that was very much a part of it because, you know, for those of us who've been doing work in the in the urbanism world for, you know, for quite some time now, I mean, we didn't have that terminology of the 15 minute city, but we that's exactly what we've been talking about is walkable, bikeable, you know, communities where you can meet your daily needs with, you know, through active mobility.

00:14:27:29 - 00:14:51:11
John Simmerman
And and you're absolutely right. I mean, this this brings me back to really what, you know, my family kind of grew up with when they first moved to Los Angeles. This was the this is what it was like. I mean, and people don't think of L.A. as being, you know, a place where, you know, like this image here from Pasadena.

00:14:52:05 - 00:15:25:00
John Simmerman
Pasadena, actually had a bicycle superhighway that they had built. And, you know, going through the Highland Park neighborhood, which is where our family home was and and still is actually. But yeah, that that concept of walkable, bikeable commune cities and nodes in neighborhoods and then being able to combine that with the ability to to go longer distances through.

00:15:25:10 - 00:15:49:13
John Simmerman
You know there was a great a great visual there of some of the streetcars and that's that was my great great grandfather was a brakeman on the Redcar line. So it was very much, you know, a part of L.A. In fact, L.A. had the largest streetcar system line system in the entire nation. It was so extensive. Just amazing.

00:15:50:10 - 00:15:51:14
Lindsay Sturman
It's our history, right?

00:15:51:14 - 00:15:53:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Going, going back to.

00:15:54:17 - 00:16:04:02
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. And they say now our traffic is at 20 miles an hour because we're in so much traffic. The trolleys went the same speed. Right? We'd be better off with trolleys. Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:05:02 - 00:16:24:23
John Simmerman
So the bike is an interesting sort of invention in the sense that the bike predates the car by a couple of decades and, well, at least the mass use of bicycles did the bikes actually predated the motor vehicle Predated. So you want.

00:16:25:17 - 00:16:52:15
Lindsay Sturman
Me to do a quick sidebar on this? Sure. Invention of the bike? Yeah. I just have to look up one date and I'll give it to you. It's the best story. And we were going to do it on the Bike Talk podcast. Yeah, the invention of the bike. I stumbled upon this story. So in 1820 is actually 1819, the supervolcano went off called Mount Tambora, and the next summer the ash covered Europe.

00:16:52:22 - 00:17:11:23
Lindsay Sturman
It got all the way to Albany. Okay, the super. And it was it was in like I think near Indonesia. And it was it's called Ashfall. It's the ash that comes down from a volcano. And it was called the Year Without a summer 1820 in Europe and it blotted out the sun and all the children had to spend the summer indoors.

00:17:11:23 - 00:17:33:12
Lindsay Sturman
And Mary Shelley was indoors in like a Vienna like hotel. And she wrote Frankenstein because the kids entertain themselves by writing in. The first vampire story was written to her friend who wrote the first. So that was the summer with that. That was the year without a summer. And meanwhile, it was also called the Poor year and the ground froze.

00:17:34:00 - 00:17:42:18
Lindsay Sturman
In August, everything failed. Crops failed all the way to Pennsylvania, and the Germans ended up eating their horses. So a German man invented the bicycle.

00:17:44:03 - 00:17:48:28
John Simmerman
Very good, very good. Not not very good that the horses had to be horses.

00:17:48:28 - 00:17:49:21
Lindsay Sturman
I feel bad about.

00:17:49:24 - 00:18:15:18
John Simmerman
But yeah. And it's Yeah, I think that's that it's a it's, it's fantastic to get that context that Yes the bicycle actually did predate the automobile by quite a few years and it's, it's one of the most amazing inventions just in terms of just how efficient it is to be able to to be able to get from from point A to point B.

00:18:16:00 - 00:18:47:26
John Simmerman
The point I wanted to make, though, is the fact that it's so incredibly crucial from an urban mobility perspective of being able to marry the bicycle in transit. And that's another thing that the Dutch have done really, really well, is being able to integrate that those two different mobility systems into a synergistic relationship so that you can be able to ride the bike, you know, inherently rideable distances.

00:18:48:08 - 00:19:23:11
John Simmerman
And then if for those longer distances, you can jump on transit. In their case, most of the longer distance transit is is on the rail system. And they have built up, you know, very, very efficient and very, very comfortable and safe bicycle parking garages at the transit line, at the transit stations. And so it's just an incredibly synergistic and civilized approach at transportation versus, you know, feeling like you if it's beyond a few miles, I have to drive.

00:19:24:10 - 00:19:45:29
Lindsay Sturman
Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what's interesting about the Dutch is that they study their 40 years of data and they study their engineers. There's a lot of engineers in training because they have to they have to build levees to keep the water out of the country. So they're just very focused on data and evidence. And so they had 40 years of data on their transit and many years also on bikes.

00:19:45:29 - 00:20:05:27
Lindsay Sturman
And they have they study at a university departments, think tanks like we don't have a single bike program, you know, department in any university that I know of in America. So what they've done is they they they figure it out how to perfect it and what but kind of opened my mind to this is a systems engineer who formerly worked at BRD.

00:20:05:27 - 00:20:26:21
Lindsay Sturman
Martin Thomas joined our Brain Trust and he's a mobility expert. And he thinks in terms of systems and the Dutch have really figured out how to build a system. And here's this one thing I learned interviewing people on the podcast is that busses don't scale unless they're fast and frequent. So a bus that stops at every tree, it doesn't scale.

00:20:26:29 - 00:20:47:03
Lindsay Sturman
And this is where I think that Americans, we should be if you pay attention to design and engineering, like, for instance, we don't build bridges that fail or aircraft that fail. Like we build stuff that is a you know, the banking of a freeway is highly engineered. You flip your car when you turn. We somehow bike lanes. We've just decided you're on your own.

00:20:47:13 - 00:21:08:03
Lindsay Sturman
And I think that I can show you I can share some data about how it's not incremental. It's it's really it's a choice. It's an on off switch. If you're a senior, I am not. I am too old and and not good enough to bike in a way that I'm scared. And that's comes into sort of this idea here we go.

00:21:08:03 - 00:21:34:25
Lindsay Sturman
And I love this tweet so much. I got a ton of love. I'm on a bike lane, I'm on the highway, I'm riding on the combination highway, bike lane that, you know, a certain city thinks is bike infrastructure. And, you know, this is nobody's fault. We've gotten here through a million, just, you know, miss beliefs. And one of them, I think, is this idea that we can incrementally make take a terribly unsafe bike lane and just kind of inch it forward.

00:21:35:05 - 00:21:59:08
Lindsay Sturman
And I think, you know, to to to quote somebody who was on our podcast, Dave Campbell, as he said, you know, he's been trying this for 25 years. It's like we don't mix sidewalks and cars. Why do we Vitamix bikes and cars? And this idea that you make this quantum leap from about, you know, absolute ceiling of 8% mode share, which is New York and Portland.

00:21:59:08 - 00:22:08:12
Lindsay Sturman
Portland's the Amsterdam of America and this is all great, but you make a quantum leap to 80% of people will bike once you make it safe.

00:22:08:26 - 00:22:52:15
John Simmerman
Yeah well and it's it's important to be very, very clear that the there's a difference between the infrastructure and how the infrastructure kind of works with the overlaying culture of of where this is happening. And so this is this is a nice little graphic that you guys have here on the secret to a happy bikeable bikeable streets. And really what we're looking at trying to do here is create systems where we're not limiting the number of people that will feel comfortable riding in the environment.

00:22:53:08 - 00:23:24:26
John Simmerman
There's a misperception, though, that, you know, and really it's all about speed. So that and that's what this slide is here is is we have to be very, very clear and open with the fact that this is such a telling, you know, graphic. It's a horrific graphic. But it it really gets to the point of of understanding what helps people feel comfortable in their environment, on their streets, in their public spaces.

00:23:25:16 - 00:23:45:18
John Simmerman
And I mean on honestly, this has been one of the most gratifying messages to be able to get out to try to help break through the the in resonate with as many people as possible.

00:23:45:18 - 00:24:03:01
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah and I think it's the fly in the ointment it's the thing that's breaking the whole system is the is that we're not we're not realizing someone said we're a frog in the water. We don't it took COVID for me to realize, wow, when you take the cars that are going 70 miles an hour on the street next to my house.

00:24:03:11 - 00:24:21:19
Lindsay Sturman
Right. Like it's it's so scary. And we just I think we didn't I didn't realize. And then once the cars were gone and I'm interviewing people all over the world hearing this and I'm like, it suddenly just all made sense. Like you just have to slow the cars down and what it's this is what is the speed you want the car going?

00:24:21:19 - 00:24:42:07
Lindsay Sturman
When they hit someone nine miles an hour, everybody walks away 20 miles an hour, you've a 10% chance of killing someone. And that's really hard on the drivers. And we you know, it's really frustrating to have people, you know, fight bike lanes. But when you talk to them, they're like, I'm afraid of hitting someone. That's a really different conversation than like, you know, you don't deserve a safe bike lane.

00:24:42:18 - 00:24:58:10
Lindsay Sturman
And I think that's where the empathy comes in, not just for the people who are fighting it, but also this idea of what is the speed you want the car going. And then when you ask people nine miles an hour, 20 miles an hour, and like if it's involving children or really anyone, you're like, I don't want people hit by a car.

00:24:58:16 - 00:25:10:22
Lindsay Sturman
Zero. That's actually the answer. And that really starts to change how you see what is a bikeable street. Because if you never want a car hitting a kid, what do you do differently? Kind of everything.

00:25:11:04 - 00:25:35:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. The next image here in graphic here is the these are not the same and and they're not the same. And but what is interesting is that the photo on the right is, is actually a shared street. It's actually not just a bike bicycle street. It's actually a 15 mile per hour street. It's a 30 kilometers per hour zone.

00:25:35:21 - 00:25:58:23
John Simmerman
It's what they call a feed street in in in the Netherlands. And it's it's an environment where it's very frequent that the number of people on bikes far outnumber the number of people in motor vehicles. And and people go to people drive at very, very safe speeds and they are inherently I yeah I.

00:25:59:03 - 00:26:05:03
Lindsay Sturman
Do want to go back really quickly. Sure. Okay. So the 18 is 30 kilometers an hour.

00:26:05:14 - 00:26:08:14
John Simmerman
You know. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 18 is 30 kilometers per hour.

00:26:08:16 - 00:26:15:18
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. So the one half would be nine miles an hour, which is 15 kilometers. So I just thought it might be.

00:26:15:18 - 00:26:44:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so that's a good, that's a great clarification. Yeah. On this particular graphic here, when we look at true Woolner Square, it is a true place Street, a third pedestrian priority street in the Netherlands. They're looking at targeting right around 15 kilometers per hour or somewhere around nine miles per hour. In that environment, very few people are actually on that street in a motor vehicle trying to get to a place.

00:26:44:02 - 00:27:10:10
John Simmerman
If anything, they're probably just trying to get home to park their their their vehicle. It's a very, very ultra slow speed environment. The bulk of the the Dutch network, a nearly 70% of the Dutch network, is actually what's considered shared space where or some form of shared space. Some of that is WOOLNER For a very, very small portion of it is is Woolner from very ultra slow speed.

00:27:10:15 - 00:27:38:01
John Simmerman
But the majority of it is 30 kilometers per hour, which is right around 17 point something miles per hour. And those are the FT struts and the edge, Clean roads, advisory bike lane type roads and other types of shared space. And it's considered safe in in that environment because it is a it's it's like this culture of understanding that as a driver you are going to stay behind.

00:27:38:01 - 00:27:57:24
John Simmerman
You're going to be patient in you're not you know, you're not going to force the matter. And and we can all we can debate whether that type of environment, that type of shared space would ever work in the United States. I would say that it probably will, but it's going to take time to get that sort of shift to happen.

00:27:58:05 - 00:28:21:05
John Simmerman
And it's really just traffic calming that needs to take place with the modal filters and things of that nature to make sure that, oh, people who are in a hurry are not going to be on that street in the first place. So and even if they were, they're going to have to divert off that street very, very quickly because it's not a through route for them right now.

00:28:21:15 - 00:28:26:22
Lindsay Sturman
That's such a wonderful way to explain it. And I didn't know that about the 70% of 1 hours that.

00:28:26:29 - 00:28:29:12
John Simmerman
Well, yeah, yeah. So that is like the.

00:28:29:13 - 00:28:30:23
Lindsay Sturman
Source shared street Sorry.

00:28:30:23 - 00:29:04:05
John Simmerman
Yeah that is like the thing everybody thinks of protected and separated infrastructure in the Netherlands and in in Denmark. But in reality the bulk of their network is not protected and separated. It's actually shared space with slow speeds. Most of it in the 30 kilometer range. And the beautiful thing, about 30 kilometers that is, is that is a speed that where you just don't you don't even have these you don't have this.

00:29:04:15 - 00:29:25:21
John Simmerman
The reason why this doesn't exist is much or it isn't is applicable is because it's slow enough. It's close enough to human speed when you're on a bike because you're traveling, traveling probably about that speed, too, is that the collision just never occurs. It doesn't show up on the statistics because it was avoided completely.

00:29:26:13 - 00:29:28:01
Lindsay Sturman
Right. Right.

00:29:28:01 - 00:29:49:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. I love I love this series of photos. And I think that this is a wonderful way for us to take that conversation and let's blend it towards some of these visions that you all are having of what a livable communities could be in the L.A. context. To talk a little about about this series of images that we have here.

00:29:49:15 - 00:29:50:00
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:29:50:12 - 00:30:12:27
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. So we we wanted to marry. Obviously you need walkability, bike mobility and transit. And so we we sort of split it up. So walkability was those old historic main streets. So L.A. was a city of 400 villages that got connected by trolleys and then later cars and everybody biked, as you said. And those that sign green retail exists and that gives you your walkability.

00:30:12:27 - 00:30:32:19
Lindsay Sturman
And Hollywood Boulevard is actually a great spot. Now, how do you get the bike ability? So what we realized is that everybody's been trying to do 50 minute cities for decades, right, as an L.A. has. And they are already these plans in place in it's called Heart of Hollywood. And it's an eight blocks with the Walk of Fame, which is really wonderful.

00:30:32:19 - 00:30:49:27
Lindsay Sturman
And people love to go visit. And so they wanted to create this tourist area that, as you can see, very slow cars, lots of alfresco dining. They kind of hit the bike lanes because they're controversial, widen the sidewalks and just create this really wonderful place and therefore designs for the street. And one of them is pedestrian izing it.

00:30:50:05 - 00:31:09:21
Lindsay Sturman
So what's interesting about this is that you don't want Carmageddon, especially in L.A. People are very sensitive to traffic. And so they'd already done the math that you can take the cars off Hollywood Boulevard. It's an it's a unique street because a dead ends. So already it's not like a artery through the city. It's tucked at the base of the hills.

00:31:10:00 - 00:31:32:11
Lindsay Sturman
So when when streets come up, they kind of end like a block later. So again, you're not in this high traffic area and they have movie premieres at the theaters. You can actually see there, they have movie premieres and different premieres all the time. So they know how to take the cars off that street. So we wanted to hook in to existing community plans with a ton of, you know, positivity.

00:31:32:11 - 00:31:52:25
Lindsay Sturman
And that's another thing we're just trying to do is like hook into like the positive what right Like rather than try to like shame or scold or like, you know, like do a power play on people. It's like, you know, we're at a standstill. How can we all come together and do something, both thoughtfully, intentionally, but also has broad appeal?

00:31:52:25 - 00:32:09:25
Lindsay Sturman
So how Hollywood already has this plan people are excited about? It's like, let's hook into this. You slow the cars and as you just said, really, if you want to get bikes, you pretty much and the Dutch will say this only have to slow the cars out, of course, protected bike lanes and that you need those on all the corridors.

00:32:10:02 - 00:32:14:17
Lindsay Sturman
But to create a little neighborhood, you really just want very few cars.

00:32:14:17 - 00:32:44:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And in fact they're they're kind of their standard that they use in that systematic safety that you're referencing is that for any street that is more than 30 kilometers per hour, that's the dividing line as to when they require the protected and separated infrastructure for cyclists, for people on bikes, not cyclists, for people on bikes, they on identify as cyclists, just identify as people on bikes.

00:32:44:21 - 00:33:05:12
John Simmerman
But in and I guess one of the things to to think about because you mentioned in this visual here that the bike lanes are kind of hidden because they're kind of controversial is that I wonder if we really are doing ourselves a disservice to continually kind of refer to them even as bike lanes lane versus some form of mobility lane?

00:33:05:12 - 00:33:27:24
John Simmerman
I mean, one of the most, I think most encouraging and beautiful images that we have when we look at, you know, the people who are out on the streets in in the in the quote unquote bike lanes in the Netherlands is oftentimes they are people on mobility, scooters in wheelchairs.

00:33:28:27 - 00:33:50:24
Lindsay Sturman
I have two family members who can't drive due to a disability. And more people can use an adaptive bike. More people with disabilities can use an adaptive bike than can drive. So for people, a lot of us are very, you know, passionate about the issue of accessibility. You know, as I said, for family members or just yourself, we we lose our ability to drive.

00:33:50:24 - 00:34:08:07
Lindsay Sturman
We outlive our ability to drive by 7 to 10 years. So seniors get trapped in a suburban home. It becomes a crisis of loneliness, or you have to move far away from your kids to live in, you know, a place. The Villages is 100,000 seniors in Florida with no cars. It's golf carts because you can drive a golf cart and a trike.

00:34:09:16 - 00:34:20:03
Lindsay Sturman
So I think that's such a good point that this is really about. Somebody said to me, L.A. pushes out people who don't, who can't drive. We don't. And we should be a city for everyone.

00:34:20:08 - 00:34:45:00
John Simmerman
This is what we're talking about here when we talk about trying to, you know, change the environment for the better, for the positive, to encourage people to be able to get around. And as you just mentioned it, you know, being able to feel comfortable jumping on a bike, a comfortable upright bike, to be able to run and run some errands throughout our lifespan.

00:34:45:27 - 00:35:04:09
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. And I love this woman with her with a basket on her bike and two baskets. It's this is and look at the dress she's wearing. This is a very dignified way to age. It's a dignified way to get around. If you don't have mobility, it's and or you don't want to spend the money. And that's you talk to Gen ZERS.

00:35:04:09 - 00:35:12:18
Lindsay Sturman
They don't want to own cars. Volkswagen did a study and I think like more than 60% of Gen Zers never want to own a car. Well, that's interesting. Yeah.

00:35:13:07 - 00:35:42:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. You know, it really is. And in terms of a lot of the stuff that I've been working on over the last 15 years is this concept of a culture of activity of re really instilling within communities, within neighborhoods this, this just sort of de facto way of life of where yeah, of course we're going to be physically active we're going to be, you know, have this sense of play and sense of fun.

00:35:42:19 - 00:36:17:09
John Simmerman
And this, this photo just says it all for me is, you know, you've got an elderly female, she's on a skateboard, she's carving it up. This looks like it is probably an open streets event, which are fantastic school villas or fantastic for for being able to reframe what our streets are for. Talk a little bit about that, because I think that that's that's something that is is a bright spot you know that's happening in the L.A. basin area of helping to move that along.

00:36:17:15 - 00:36:29:07
John Simmerman
Obviously, COVID and, you know, the lockdown in the pandemic helped move that along a little bit as well. But so do these events like like open streets and seek? Livia?

00:36:30:10 - 00:36:50:00
Lindsay Sturman
Yes, I think so. Livia We almost think of our neighborhoods as Sylvia's and it's, it's, you know, it's very, I think seek. Livia. What's so interesting about Sylvia is that when you take the cars off a street within minutes, it fills with bikes and it's like nature is healing. We want a bike. It's our happiest form of transportation.

00:36:50:07 - 00:37:10:28
Lindsay Sturman
And but it's simply an issue of fear and very well-founded fear. So I you know, I think that if we could build one of these. And if people could experience it, they it's so hard to imagine you'd ever live without a car. And I think if people could experience it, they'd see that it's a really wonderful way of life.

00:37:10:28 - 00:37:27:09
Lindsay Sturman
And, you know, if you've ever been to the Netherlands or you've been to Copenhagen and you've experienced it or just immersed yourselves in, you know, fabulous streets, films and stuff like that, it's it really works. And but it's just it's like you have to take the red pill. You got to see the matrix.

00:37:28:05 - 00:37:59:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Or take the orange pill, you know, tune in and watch some of Jason Slaughter's, not just Blake's videos. Take that orange peel. And I love the the cargo bike revolution that's really taking hold here and really normalizing the activity of what we can do by bike. We don't have to buy a multi-ton $60,000 SUV to be able to get the family around.

00:38:01:05 - 00:38:18:08
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah, they're outselling I think cargo bikes are outselling cars in Europe now. And if you've ever had a toddler trying to get them into a car seat versus, hey, do you want to go for a bike ride? And I think, you know, moms, they love exercise. You know, they called the juggle fast life as a mom, you know, working mom.

00:38:18:13 - 00:38:36:27
Lindsay Sturman
You know, you got a lot on your plate and having a lovely trip in Chicago, biking your kids to school, taking them to the park, It can be life changing for your finances, for your health, your mental health. Kids love it. It's like we slow down when we have little kids. And this fits better with that life for many people.

00:38:36:27 - 00:38:58:21
Lindsay Sturman
And I think that's the other thing we always want to emphasize is that it's not for everyone. And, you know, we say to people like, you're not everyone just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean you are everyone. And have, you know, all of humanity is you and needs for cars or whatever you need. You know, if you have four kids going in 4 to 4 states or four different sports events, there are times in your life where you need different things and know their neighborhoods.

00:38:59:01 - 00:39:23:04
Lindsay Sturman
We've we're going back to a city of neighborhoods. So I live in Larchmont. I never leave Larchmont. I have a little main Street. I have, you know, 90% of my errands are right there. It's wonderful. We all walk. It's like you want to be with humanity. And I think that that's this idea of creating, you know, Livable Communities initiative is this idea of creating little neighborhoods where you slow the cars down and you have this bikeable life.

00:39:23:04 - 00:39:41:01
Lindsay Sturman
And but, you know, it's hard for people to hear the bikes, but it really is what it is. And the bikes, the bikes unlock the transit and that's where it becomes a climate issue, is that if you can't get people on bikes in transit, they're stuck in cars. And we know that EVs won't scale in time for our climate goals.

00:39:41:01 - 00:40:01:05
Lindsay Sturman
They just it's it's the supply chain, it's the embodied carbon of building them. There's so many issues we need, all of us, we should just, you know, just sell lives 1,000%. But the climate scientists are we need bikes. I think e-bikes open this potential, this revolution. And as you just laid out, you got to slow the cars down to get the bikes.

00:40:01:05 - 00:40:23:08
Lindsay Sturman
So slowing the cars down turns out to be the key that unlocks everything. And I would say that's why speed cameras and, you know, automated AC, automatic speed enforcement, that is the key law. And Laura Friedman are assembly member in Los Angeles is trying to change that law in California, because if you can slow the cars down, you get the bikes and then you get the transit.

00:40:23:18 - 00:40:53:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. One of the things that that pops into my head, as you were just saying, that I want to go back to this image with her on the skateboard here is I wonder if we're doing ourselves a disservice as veterans of the fight in bicycle advocacy. And like, you know, it's been this war you know it's the war on cars and and it's and I wonder if we're doing ourselves a disservice by overemphasizing yeah.

00:40:53:29 - 00:41:32:21
John Simmerman
By overemphasizing that battle because people who are like just getting into this and are discovering micromobility and one wheel and a skateboard and electronic skateboard and and just finding or an e-scooter, you know, just kind of like, oh no, this is just logical, pragmatic mobility choice. And they have no clue that there's this whole culture war passed. I really do wonder whether we're hurting ourselves by assuming that it's going to be just such a fight at every single turn.

00:41:33:11 - 00:41:51:17
Lindsay Sturman
I don't know. I love it. I love that you're saying that because what I'm finding is that even the people who fight bike lanes, when you explain to them they hate the bike lanes because they don't think they're safe and they're right. And I really see both, you know, that there's I think bike lanes are incredibly important. But I understand why people fight them.

00:41:51:17 - 00:41:52:20
Lindsay Sturman
And then when we say.

00:41:53:05 - 00:41:56:04
John Simmerman
Well, let's talk about what type of bike lane you're talking about.

00:41:56:05 - 00:42:20:12
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so they're like, this is a nightmare. As a driver, I would never use it. No one would ever use that. So I think that moving the conversation, it's you're right because there's, there's two levels, the conversation, there's the political, the electeds, the engineers, you know, Le Dotty, the Dougherty's. And then there's the people who they don't have time to even know what like most people don't know what a dot is, right?

00:42:20:28 - 00:42:41:10
Lindsay Sturman
There's no idea what you're talking about. But if you if we make the pitch that let's do bike lanes, let's do them safe, let's do them right, they quickly can get on board, especially if you if it's honestly like I actually have seen people come do a 180 on this once they understand, yes, the bike lanes are unsafe and they're unsafe by design.

00:42:41:22 - 00:43:04:21
Lindsay Sturman
So let's change. There's a movement afoot to change how we actually classify a bike lane right now, our classifications, all of them are unsafe by my standards. As somebody who needs Dutch level safety, I I'm just I'm too fearful to risk my life. I won't bungee jump. I'm never going to hang glide. Right. I'm never going to do risky behavior I'm to hold.

00:43:05:25 - 00:43:29:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I love that in the video that Westwood Boulevard was was looked at and you had this opportunity to look at the before and the after. And this sort of illustrates, you know, the possibility of of what we're talking about when we're talking about creating a safe and inviting all ages and abilities, facility mobility lane that's what we'll call them.

00:43:29:03 - 00:43:54:09
John Simmerman
We'll call mobility lanes where people on bikes can be there and you can have your e-scooter there. And by the way, there's still parking here. Take a look. We've got some parking. This is a parking protected facility. We also have some outdoor dining and cafe activity and by the way, we're hitting that target of being a truly safe speed at ten miles per hour here.

00:43:55:18 - 00:44:24:00
John Simmerman
I think that that's where the power of these types of visuals and maybe even pop up installations really kind of help bring people along and understanding what we're talking about. Because when we really look at the data and we ask people through polling if they would walk and bike to places, they say yes, they would if it were safe to do so.

00:44:24:08 - 00:44:24:16
John Simmerman
Right.

00:44:25:05 - 00:44:41:26
Lindsay Sturman
And the Dutch say that if it's safe and pleasant, people will bike, and the more pleasant it is, the further they'll bike and the more fast and frequent the transit is, the more they'll use it. So it's really it's a quality issue. It's it's giving people and saying we want people to bike, so let's give them that safety.

00:44:42:11 - 00:45:08:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, and here's the Westwood Village images here again taking a look at this and the before and then the visualization of how we can do that. What I love about this visualization between these two images too, is the emphasis on something that I think needs to be talked about much more openly. And that is the role of street trees and canopies street tree canopies in this.

00:45:08:24 - 00:45:32:25
John Simmerman
And so we see the the strategic use of being able to utilize the trees and creating a tree canopy to try to, you know, help with that heal heat island effect. And so you have that ability to get some shade onto the pedestrian realm and on to the mobility, you know, lane realm there to be able to encourage that active mobility as much as possible.

00:45:34:03 - 00:45:57:21
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah. And these are slightly unrealistic know is you know people have told me but that's you know the idea is eventually you get your kissing canopy, you really grow them out and it changes everything. And one thing is like, you know, it's also an equity issue that this we're talking about building affordable housing in safe neighborhoods where it's safe to not own a car, essentially, and pleasant to not own a car.

00:45:58:01 - 00:46:19:04
Lindsay Sturman
And this idea that everybody should live on a tree lined street, everybody should have the quiet and calm of a suburban neighborhood. And then there's serious health implication of living near traffic. It's the pollution and the sound. The sound actually increases your risk of dementia and the pollution increases your risk. Obviously, of asthma, but also M.S and Alzheimer's.

00:46:19:04 - 00:46:31:19
Lindsay Sturman
So there are real safety issues and L.A. is having a conversation. All cities, I think where do we put housing, Where do we put either subsidized affordable housing or just workforce housing? You know, small, you know.

00:46:32:07 - 00:47:08:21
John Simmerman
I know, let's put it here. So and that's why I love this before and after for as well is because it talked about this in the video as well about the gentle density of being able to to build up and so not only do we see the trees coming into into this environment now, we've got the mobility lane, we've got the tree canopy and oh, by the way, and we're also getting that gentle density in here where we're trying to make the point that it yeah, it doesn't have to be a 40 storey tower right next to a single family home.

00:47:08:26 - 00:47:24:15
John Simmerman
But you can have that concept of going, you know, from a single storey. Let's, let's go up a few stories. I mean Paris is absolutely delightful at the majority of Paris being, you know, 4 to 5 storeys high.

00:47:24:15 - 00:47:46:13
Lindsay Sturman
Somebody said to me that if all of L.A. was zoned for three stories, we fit 10 million people. So we're 4 million people. Like we don't need to go higher. And what we when we were talking to people historically fight housing sometimes called the is the height is a huge issue. They only have three things they really care about traffic and parking is one that's the most height.

00:47:46:13 - 00:48:07:02
Lindsay Sturman
They don't like tall buildings. Angelina's don't like them because of earthquakes. It's just like a sticking point for people and then ugly architecture. And so if you can solve those three, we have found honestly universal support we have yet even people who fought us at the beginning and like it's all like a very mature conversation, right? Because we're it's like you're talking to your neighbors.

00:48:07:02 - 00:48:23:19
Lindsay Sturman
You're not going to get in a screaming fight with them. You have to live here. And but when you talk to them, if you can get them for 20 minutes, 40 minutes, like a Zoom people, they they agree with it and then they bring their own ideas and we start to evolve it. So I think that going back to the way cities were built is people.

00:48:23:19 - 00:48:24:19
Lindsay Sturman
It appeals to people.

00:48:25:15 - 00:48:45:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, you're on the ground, you're you're knocking on doors, you're in your neighborhood trying to have these conversations. What advice do you have for people who need to do this? Because that's one of the things that I keep talking about is you want to see change. You know, don't don't look to leadership to make it happen. You need to start talking with your neighbors.

00:48:45:14 - 00:48:54:18
John Simmerman
What advice do you have for being able to do that successfully and not having it devolve into fights?

00:48:54:18 - 00:49:02:16
Lindsay Sturman
I got yelled at for many years and I was like, okay, all right, I hear you that you feel strongly about this.

00:49:02:16 - 00:49:07:26
John Simmerman
So, Basil, what advice do you have for for avoiding being yelled at, or is that just kind of.

00:49:08:17 - 00:49:27:27
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah, we methodically built the case through conversations of where we took the feedback and people said, you know, we don't like this and what about this? What about this? And like, all right, let's go talk to experts. And we pulled in. You know, we're lucky to have UCLA right here, but anybody can do office hours at the professors want to get the information out.

00:49:27:27 - 00:49:55:27
Lindsay Sturman
They live for this. And they're like, we sit in our you know, in our rooms typing up this data and these, you know, research. And then the activists have to go out and actually spread the word. And I think it's it's when you meet people where they are and listen to them and don't scold and shame them and tell them they're a terrible person for, you know, their views, you know, on the height of a building and there we have such a horrible history in this country with redlining and racism.

00:49:56:04 - 00:50:20:16
Lindsay Sturman
So there's so many layers of this conversation. But so then it becomes about unpacking it to work with DTI, specialist diversity Equity and Inclusion advisors, and they're in our brain trusts like people who really understand this issue because we want to look at everything also through the the lens of anti-racism and sort of find the moral center. What is the right thing to do.

00:50:20:16 - 00:50:46:22
Lindsay Sturman
And then so we're constantly meeting because L.A. is so different than a New York City, than a Boston than in Austin, Texas. Right. What what how do you operationalize this in a way that people are comfortable with, while also, as I said, just making sure that everything you're doing has we're doing it with with the lens of equity and the lens of efficacy that it's going to work.

00:50:47:02 - 00:51:01:24
Lindsay Sturman
And I think when you can convince people this could work, that is that's another thing they get really excited about. We all want to solve our housing crisis. Austin probably doesn't have the crisis that L.A. does, but it's we all want to solve it and the math points the way.

00:51:02:07 - 00:51:14:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, So we were scrolling through some beautiful imagery there is that one of the things that you have found success with in terms of being able to show some visual visualization.

00:51:16:03 - 00:51:35:21
Lindsay Sturman
Yes. And I think that I think that the picture is in if you're on by Twitter or housing Twitter, you're seeing them every day. Right? We all see them. And it's it it lights up my life when I see these pictures. Here's a double decker freeway through a residential neighborhood in Seoul, Korea. And they took it down and turned it into one of the most beautiful linear parks in the world.

00:51:35:21 - 00:51:50:03
Lindsay Sturman
And it's a destination now, and it's an amenity. And they when they put the high line in in New York, the apartments around it doubled or tripled in value. That is a lot of money. So people I think when people ask, let's pause.

00:51:50:03 - 00:52:15:14
John Simmerman
For a second and talk about that, because oftentimes as urban as we say those words, but then sometimes the the the the kickback is I don't want my property values to to go up, because that's part of what's going to displace me, you know, as my property taxes go up or as I can't afford the rent in my neighborhood as they do that.

00:52:15:26 - 00:52:55:29
John Simmerman
So it's I guess one of the things that we have to do as as urbanists and trying to push for more livable communities. We realize that, yes, that is a good thing. We need we do need property values to go up. But it was mentioned, I think in the in the video is that the goal is that we are not displacing people were being able to kind of keep people in place and actually be able to help with their ability for wealth creation and being able to to be part of that and not being left behind.

00:52:55:29 - 00:53:18:06
Lindsay Sturman
You just touched on like three or four of the most important issues. And if you go to Slide 14, because displacement is a huge issue, it's the horrible history, displacement and gentrification. And so, well, when we first started this, we asked the question, where should our housing go? We have to build 500,000 units. We accept that. And then now where should it go?

00:53:18:13 - 00:53:43:16
Lindsay Sturman
And what we were educated on by a lot of the equity groups and the advocates in L.A. is this concept that was passed by the L.A. City Council that called the equitable distribution of affordable housing, and it broke the city into five areas and it became really clear that certain neighborhoods have not built their fair share. They haven't built enough affordable housing, creating displacement in low income communities and communities of color.

00:53:43:16 - 00:54:09:24
Lindsay Sturman
And it also means you get these super commutes. So we're all it's not working for anybody. So this concept of of building and high opportunity neighborhoods and your jobs amenities and transit became sort of part of what we were doing. But then it's also so there was another idea floating out there which was building long commercial corridors. It was actually written up as a paper by a fantastic architect, Angie Brooks, a real thought leader in urbanism.

00:54:10:02 - 00:54:34:14
Lindsay Sturman
And she said, This is what's wrong with the cities. We can't build on the corridors. Well, the corridors don't have any housing. So that was very appealing because you won't displace any of the existing tenants to to your point about property values, it is really scary for your neighborhood to change. I've actually seen my neighborhood change. And it's it is it's very disconcerting in California, your your property taxes won't go up.

00:54:34:20 - 00:55:04:20
Lindsay Sturman
So that's a small thing that's unique to California. So if you're a homeowner, you have at a low risk of displacement or, you know, it would be a choice. And of course, you know, sometimes there's so much money involved that actually does create unwanted pressure in terms of rents. We have to protect renters. That has to be part of it is when housing comes, when a when a beautiful if you create a linear park through a neighborhood, which I'd love to see, I think a lot of people would love to see you have to protect the renters around it.

00:55:04:20 - 00:55:33:00
Lindsay Sturman
And and then you touch on something else really important which is attainable homeownership. L.A. has a horrible situation where 400,000 Angelinos are essentially trapped renting, but they make enough money to buy a like an apartment. And we don't have them. We don't have $500,000 apartments here, 750,000 apartments, and we could build those. And they will pencil out if we if we allow them.

00:55:33:00 - 00:55:42:13
Lindsay Sturman
And I can talk you through how and that is an opportunity to, as you said, build wealth. That's the American dream. Close the intergenerational racial wealth gap.

00:55:42:29 - 00:55:57:23
John Simmerman
Yeah, well, like we said earlier, everything's interrelated and connected. Is there anything that we haven't yet touched upon that you want to make sure to share with the the audience?

00:55:58:00 - 00:56:02:10
Lindsay Sturman
I love to talk through the standard plans, if that's of interest to your audience.

00:56:02:17 - 00:56:05:18
John Simmerman
Sure, let's do it. Walk us through what we're looking at here.

00:56:06:15 - 00:56:31:02
Lindsay Sturman
So we wanted to understand how to build housing and why we can't build housing. We did a feasibility study and we took a it was a parcel for sale in Culver City. You know, $1.2 million is the pottery studio. And it was like a an auction. And how do you build housing above this? And so if you go to the next slide, we had an architect in our group just offered to said I'll I'll do a building.

00:56:31:09 - 00:56:53:09
Lindsay Sturman
So he designed a building that fit on this very narrow lot. So parking, as you said at the beginning, drives everything. Because if you're going to have parking in this building, you actually need to buy one of the lots next to you because 25 feet isn't enough to turn cars around. You have to do 40 feet. And by the way, this building comes in four or five stories, so it's like seven units or nine units.

00:56:53:19 - 00:57:28:13
Lindsay Sturman
Where are you going to put 18 cars? It's not possible. So the automatically every single parcel in LA was not knocked out unless you could. A lot assembly, a lot assembly drives up the price of land because you get holdouts. So you're into like an endless catastrophic failure. So if you go to the next slide, we also wanted to understand how to do beautiful housing with air and light, because this is we want to build housing that we'd all live in right at the different stage in your life when you're young, maybe you're older, you know, you know you want to have small kids.

00:57:28:13 - 00:57:53:03
Lindsay Sturman
This this could fill a ton of needs. And if you go to the next slide, we we realize that we have all these rules, decades of rules that are just hurting housing, front yard setbacks that serve no purpose. And actually don't they make the architecture less pretty side yard setbacks, parking rec rooms, which are actually interior rooms of shared space for the building.

00:57:53:10 - 00:58:23:29
Lindsay Sturman
Well, with nine units, people may not want a rec room. They may want another closet or a bigger living room. All of this depends on something called vertical core. Design is sometimes called single staircase, and you go to the next slide. This is a technical, wonky, only interesting to certain people reform. And we ended up writing a bill because you can build these beautiful buildings that are built all over the world, all over Europe.

00:58:24:19 - 00:58:41:13
Lindsay Sturman
They're built in New York and Seattle, but they're illegal in California. And if you go to the next slide and there is nothing wrong with this housing, this is the housing we have to build because of parking and because we do something called double loaded corridors. And it means you don't have cross breezes and you get less light.

00:58:41:22 - 00:59:09:19
Lindsay Sturman
And it's just it's perfectly lovely and wonderful and housing and it's important. But we also want to let single parcel owners build. And if you go to the next few slides again, housing, here's a great visual of of the housing we want versus the housing we might not want, which is and here's an example of a housing. We want walkable streets, fine grain retail.

00:59:09:26 - 00:59:31:13
Lindsay Sturman
And by the way, the fine green retail gets you the walkability, right? So we start to like it's everything's interconnected, as you said again, where would you put parking? You can't pay parking. So we looked at how do you build this? How do you let one parcel owner and one other side note is and this is where the feedback loop helps so much, we talk to property owners, they're like, We're never going to sell.

00:59:31:21 - 00:59:52:02
Lindsay Sturman
I pay no taxes. You know, Prop 13 with no taxes in California on property that you've owned for three decades, ten decades, you know, and a lot of them, it's like it's 12 cousins inherited from their grandfather. They're never going to agree to sell. They get passive income. So how do you catalyze It's the ADU model let people build to use in their backyard.

00:59:52:02 - 01:00:07:07
Lindsay Sturman
The government has to. It doesn't have to pay for it. We save those precious resources for our most vulnerable citizens. And you just let you unleash individuals to build housing for themselves, their family, their friends for some some income.

01:00:07:21 - 01:00:29:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. And so this brings us to 2 to 2 main things that we're talking about. We're talking about zoning and we're talking about, you know, parking reform. So both of these are policy related things. Is there a fair amount of momentum heading in that direction to be able to have those things, you know, get improved in the state of California and in the Los Angeles area?

01:00:30:15 - 01:00:57:25
Lindsay Sturman
So we are seeing a lot of momentum for change. We have a housing crisis and we're trying to we've taken pieces of it and now we're trying to pull it all together and operationalize it in certain neighborhoods. But the laws that have to are vertical shared access. And Assemblymember Alex Lee, who's a real housing advocate, just introduced a bill we coauthored, you know, co-sponsor, I should say, to change these rules in California.

01:00:57:25 - 01:01:20:07
Lindsay Sturman
And I think that there's momentum. We're we're working with about six different cities. Everybody has their own building codes. But people are starting to understand this innovation that was brought by Ed Mendoza, who's a former city planner and is our policy director. He had this brilliant idea of don't try to jam beautiful architecture through our existing code because it doesn't really work.

01:01:20:22 - 01:01:42:19
Lindsay Sturman
Change the code, let's rewrite it. Let's go in and make everything safer. And if you go to the next slide, do something called standard plans. And standard plans are they exist. It's actually how Paris was built. You have architects, you can do a competition. You can have just people like offer them up. And every parcel in any city, it's they're all the same sized by design.

01:01:42:27 - 01:02:04:24
Lindsay Sturman
So every parcel on the street, there are a lot or it's a single lot. And so you can do design a building that fits every single parcel. And this does a couple really cool things. One is they're pre-approved 24 hour permits and we know that they work. They have to be, you know, everything has to be safe. So you still have to do 90 days of the city, The Department of Building and Safety, but it's not 4 to 7 years.

01:02:04:24 - 01:02:21:19
Lindsay Sturman
Right. So we're down to these can get built in a year. So that starts the economics to work, because right now we have an economic failure, a market failure. You can't build affordable housing without losing money. We're trying to make it so that you can make some money. This is not big money. These are not big developers. These are builders.

01:02:21:19 - 01:02:49:16
Lindsay Sturman
Right. And contractors, carpenters building a small house, a four story house. They're four stories. Mansions start the our entire coastline. Right. So these are small houses. And if you do if you keep going through these, you can do these standard plans. We already have a model in the city for use. You go to our website of building safety, you download 7880 models pre-approved, and it's actually how Paris was built.

01:02:49:16 - 01:03:13:11
Lindsay Sturman
You can see here there was a standard plan designed by Haussmann. It's not all of Paris, it's some of Paris and it's these buildings we all know and they're beautiful and they're just variations on a theme. And you can see the red lines on this map. They were built in 20 years. In the 1800s. We they rebuilt the city, but not all of it, just part of it.

01:03:13:11 - 01:03:40:05
Lindsay Sturman
And that's what we're really talking about, build, decide where we want the housing and then let the community decide what we want it to look like because the builders don't care what they build, but the community really cares. The idea of picking a vernacular, and we do it all over the world. One high order and variation, different colors, different details, and again, incentivize the housing we want.

01:03:40:05 - 01:03:49:07
Lindsay Sturman
Stop trying to use housing. And this is what we incentivize. We incentivize housing like this. And let's stop doing that and incentivize.

01:03:49:07 - 01:03:59:10
John Simmerman
Let's stop doing that now. I'm sorry. Did you also say that that parking was addressed at the state level?

01:04:00:01 - 01:04:06:02
Lindsay Sturman
So we passed AB 2097. It got rid of parking minimums in most of California.

01:04:06:08 - 01:04:23:05
John Simmerman
Yeah. Okay. And what does that give as that? Sorry, I'm stumbling over this. I'm dumbfounded. So it does. And does that mean at the city level that's already been done is it has been done in state level or it just gives the cities the ability to do it.

01:04:23:27 - 01:04:49:27
Lindsay Sturman
It wiped out minimums. You cannot have parking minimums and their carve outs. I think you have to be near a bus line. You know, there's some there's but it's most of L.A. now, most of every city. Okay. So yeah, interstate developers will still put it in unless you give them mobility. And we know that because Santa monica got rid of parking minimums in parts of the city and the developers for five years, didn't they still built the parking.

01:04:49:27 - 01:05:11:13
John Simmerman
So that's it's not a magic bullet, right? I mean, it's not something that is immediate. I mean, it does take time, but but it is the thing that helps start to open up affordability of construction when you're not being forced to build a whole bunch of excess, you know, parking.

01:05:11:27 - 01:05:13:05
Lindsay Sturman
So. Yeah, right.

01:05:13:16 - 01:05:30:04
John Simmerman
Yeah. So this is what we were just talking about is, is the you know, when we're talking this challenge of, of trying to build affordably, if, you know, parking is, is required, it really messes up with the affordability equation.

01:05:30:04 - 01:05:52:02
Lindsay Sturman
Right. And in the catastrophic failure the domino is that when you if people who fight housing don't want tall buildings and they don't want more traffic and they don't want ugly architecture, the compromise was parking that got rid of the parking problem. But you saw the traffic problem. So and to accommodate the parking, you have to build big buildings and go high.

01:05:52:10 - 01:06:13:13
Lindsay Sturman
Right. So in the market, it kind of kills the architecture for a bunch of reasons. So then you the pink and the slide is the soft cost and the carrying costs, and that's the lawyers, expeditors and consultants you need to hire to get through the neighbors because they're fighting you. And the caring costs are the 4 to 7 years of interest in taxes you're paying too, as you try to get through the neighbors.

01:06:13:22 - 01:06:36:01
Lindsay Sturman
And then we add on all these fees and rules because, you know, people spent 30 years telling us all how horrible developers are and they're evil and they're greedy. And honestly, it's almost not even important how, you know, the battle lines got drawn long ago. It's, you know, I think that the takeaway is this is like solar, rooftop solar.

01:06:36:01 - 01:06:56:04
Lindsay Sturman
We want this. So how do we incentivize it, subsidize it, move it along, and the individual property owners can get together with a builder and build these. There's some money to be made and the government doesn't need to subsidize it. And we can fast track it and it can solve a lot of not all of our problems, but a lot of our problems.

01:06:56:13 - 01:07:10:25
Lindsay Sturman
Bring down grants, create vacancies, and just create to build. We have vouchers for every homeless family in L.A. and nowhere to put them. They're doing they're in motels. So we need to build housing. Yeah.

01:07:11:07 - 01:07:41:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it. This is so exciting to see. I can't wait to get back into into Los Angeles. I've said this before on the podcast that I have just been incredibly impressed by the ability to visit Los Angeles and not have to rent a car, I would fly in LAX. I'll have my Brampton with me. I can jump on to a bus that gets me to a transfer to get onto the train.

01:07:42:14 - 01:08:02:09
John Simmerman
I can, you know, do a couple of transfers. I can make my way all the way to a zoo, sir, and then jump off the train, jump on my bike and ride to my grandma's house. I can totally do that. And it's it kind of addresses a little bit about what we were talking about before, which is can you actually exist?

01:08:02:09 - 01:08:39:04
John Simmerman
Can you live in Los Angeles without a car? And as that transit build out continues to develop? Yeah, the answer is increasingly you can the magic piece to that is that first and last mile challenge, and that's where the other active mobility overlay and we were talking about that earlier is how do we help feed transit by truly inviting active mobility lanes, being able to walk and bike to not only transit but then afterwards to our meaningful destinations.

01:08:39:11 - 01:08:41:07
John Simmerman
It's I'm I'm super stoked.

01:08:41:28 - 01:09:04:12
Lindsay Sturman
I love that you're saying this we we think of the LCI as a TOD a transit oriented development and L.A. has world class transit infrastructure as you just said. It's it's experts around the world think very highly of it. We have a ridership problem. So if you go to the next slide, we often think of a TOD or it's sometimes called a taxi.

01:09:04:12 - 01:09:30:01
Lindsay Sturman
L.A. is is circles around transit stop. So you draw a circle and then you up zone right to ten storeys or whatever you want. If you go to the next slide, we started thinking what it's a spoke. And this I think is the other innovation in our group is that rather than trying to do a circle, literally just doing a street, a 15 minute street, a 50 minute community, as you know, and little pockets around are fine green retail and our existing historic main street.

01:09:30:01 - 01:09:54:10
Lindsay Sturman
So the real thing we're tying is historic main streets to our high quality existing transit. And then the idea is like, that's your intentionality. That's where you, you, you focus where you want your housing, incentivize it. You the standard plans, you give everybody everything. You make it incredibly easy. You don't stick it to people. And then let's see, let's see how many people want to live without a car.

01:09:54:11 - 01:09:57:14
Lindsay Sturman
I think the numbers are much higher than people think it is.

01:09:57:26 - 01:10:27:08
John Simmerman
Oh, I guarantee you it is. And Los Angeles is inherently a very walkable and bikeable environment in the sense that you don't typically have a lot of deep snow and ice. You do have some challenges with heat in the in the heat of the summer. And that's an issue which is the other point that I was making of, hey, let's think about shade, let's think about those tree canopy as let's being able to to do whatever we can.

01:10:27:17 - 01:10:36:17
John Simmerman
And oh, by the way, if we are going up to, you know, reasonable heights, that also helps with some shade. So.

01:10:37:09 - 01:10:39:02
Lindsay Sturman
Oh, that's a great point.

01:10:39:13 - 01:10:39:21
John Simmerman
Yes.

01:10:39:21 - 01:10:39:29
Lindsay Sturman
Yeah.

01:10:40:11 - 01:10:46:20
John Simmerman
We're helping Lindsay is been an absolute joy and pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

01:10:47:17 - 01:10:48:27
Lindsay Sturman
Thank you so much, John.

01:10:49:09 - 01:11:17:20
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Lindsay and if you did, please remember, give it a thumbs up, leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you think your community would benefit from a similar type of effort than a Livable Communities initiative, head on down into the Shownotes and the video description down below for the contact information for with LCI, they would love to be able to help get more of these going around the country, around the world.

01:11:17:24 - 01:11:45:06
John Simmerman
Again, thank you all so much for tuning in. I'll be back next week with another episode. This is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you to all my active towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron buy me a coffee YouTube super Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing from the active towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:11:45:17 - 01:11:54:22
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.