Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:07
Peter Flax
When I'm driving a car, I feel like I'm watching a movie, and when I'm riding my bike, I feel like I'm in the movie and it's like, just like you're you're part of it, you know? And it's not all just nature. It's like, you know, when I. When I ride by the taco trucks in LA, I smell the taco trucks.

00:00:19:07 - 00:00:45:21
Peter Flax
I hear all the languages that people are talking as they're walking around. I like, smell the fresh cut grass as guys are working on people's lawns. It's it's, you know, it's not like I'm in this living room listening to a podcast. No offense to podcasts. It's just like I'm out there experiencing the world I live in, and it's really easy to get disconnected from that.

00:00:45:21 - 00:00:51:25
Peter Flax
Like, the bicycle is an incredible way to make you feel more connected to where you are.

00:00:51:27 - 00:01:11:03
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Peter Flax, the author of the new book Live to Ride Finding Joy and meaning on a bicycle. we're going to go into this new book, which, by the way, is a beautiful new book, that I really think everyone should have.

00:01:11:03 - 00:01:19:18
John Simmerman
So, you know what? Let's get right to it with Peter so you can see why.

00:01:19:20 - 00:01:23:29
John Simmerman
Peter Flax, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns Podcast. Welcome.

00:01:24:01 - 00:01:26:23
Peter Flax
Great. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

00:01:26:25 - 00:01:34:18
John Simmerman
Peter, I love to give my guests just an opportunity to do a really quick introduction. So who the heck is Peter Flax?

00:01:34:21 - 00:01:59:09
Peter Flax
Peter Flax is a writer and editor, who lives in Los Angeles now. I've been here for about ten years, and I've been, writing and editing about a lot of topics, but especially bikes for almost 30 years now. So I, have, been an editor for more than 30 years and writing about bikes since the 90s.

00:01:59:12 - 00:02:18:29
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it, and, and I mentioned to you, when I reached out to you about, doing this episode that, I kind of have this love hate relationship with Los Angeles. I'm a fourth generation Los Angelino, spent many, many years, living there. And, every time when I'm gone, I miss it.

00:02:18:29 - 00:02:23:26
John Simmerman
And then when I'm there, I can't wait to leave. How's it? How's your decade been treating you there?

00:02:23:29 - 00:02:50:14
Peter Flax
Well, it's been great. I guess it, right. It I guess probably how anybody would react when they reflect on living somewhere for, for a decade. It, as a place to ride. It's thrilling and, almost always sunny and, often dramatic. you know, it's not a low key place to ride, but I'm able to ride year round.

00:02:50:14 - 00:03:14:18
Peter Flax
I don't own a car, and I do something like almost 8000 miles a year just commuting back and forth to my office. So, life is good for me. And and that way, you know, so much of what my new book comes from is just how I had to reorient my writing life, after moving to LA. And so I now feel kind of warm and fuzzy about the whole thing because I like it.

00:03:14:19 - 00:03:19:18
Peter Flax
It steered my, writing life in a way that I didn't expect.

00:03:19:21 - 00:03:53:22
John Simmerman
Yeah, and that's a good point, too, because, your history, of course, is that you were in the industry, in the bicycle industry writing about the bicycle industry for many, many years. And, and then that move a decade ago, basically in 2014, sort of marked a transition for you. You not only were you changing coasts, you went from the East coast to the West Coast, but you were also getting, you know, moving away from, you know, writing about, you know, professionally writing about bicycling necessarily every day as part of your job.

00:03:53:24 - 00:04:23:29
Peter Flax
Yeah. Yeah. When I moved to LA, I took a job with The Hollywood Reporter, and for the first time in a long time, I didn't have, I wasn't getting paid to cover anything bike related. And so I had to find my way, of what my purpose or role, and bike culture would, would be. So, it, has been a really interesting experience to stumble into this.

00:04:23:29 - 00:04:32:15
Peter Flax
Where before I was someone who was, you know, editor of the biggest bike magazine in the US, so totally different.

00:04:32:18 - 00:04:54:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, and you and I, this is the first time we've had a chance to be face to face, with each other, you know, over the, the, the interwebs, over, video, phone call here. But this is how I know Peter Flats is, P Flack's one out on, Twitter. Very, very prolific tweeter out there.

00:04:54:05 - 00:05:17:13
John Simmerman
And, have a very, very strong following this is kind of this is how I've known you for years. How long have you been really active out there? on Twitter, you know, kind of putting content out, talking about bicycling and all things, you know, safer streets. And in more obviously, Los Angeles over the last decade.

00:05:17:16 - 00:05:39:27
Peter Flax
I think I've been on Twitter for almost 15 years. At some point a long time ago, the CEO of the company I worked for, like forced me to get on and live tweet during like a al Gore debate or something like really weird. and but I got like really into it maybe like 12, 12 years ago, I guess 13 years ago.

00:05:39:27 - 00:06:15:26
Peter Flax
And, and I think I found my way and my, my voice leaving bicycling and not being affiliated with a bike brand is certainly, like, freed me up to just, be more, honest about what I feel. I definitely, but probably to a fault or beyond that, you know, just say what's on my mind. And, and so I have, a lot of people that love to follow me and a lot of people who hate to follow me or hate me.

00:06:15:28 - 00:06:26:16
Peter Flax
and that's just something I'm okay with. Like, I like it. It is a freeing thing to have a platform from where you can just say what you think.

00:06:26:19 - 00:06:51:09
John Simmerman
What's really interesting to in it, and you can kind of comment on this is that the platform and the interactions of, you know, quote unquote hashtag bike, Twitter and, and the audience that is out there, obviously, you don't have to get too far into the fact that it's changed a little bit in the last couple of years, but it's it was really a special place in the sense that there was a lot of stuff going on.

00:06:51:15 - 00:07:09:03
John Simmerman
Yeah, sometimes you get a little bit of vitriol here and there and, and, and you kind of get some trolls occasionally. But there's also an awful lot of camaraderie out there, an awful lot of love out there. And as well as just being able to make connections, even like this connection right here.

00:07:09:06 - 00:07:34:11
Peter Flax
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I if I'm honest, I think that it really has gone to crap in the last couple of years and, you know, it at its peak, which lasted a long time, it was like this incredible community where I constantly was meeting people who expanded my perspectives and who I would commune with over various things I love about bikes.

00:07:34:14 - 00:08:01:01
Peter Flax
And I made a ton of real friends and now I'd say at least half the people that I really care about have just bailed on the platform. Yeah. And, and and just like in so many vertical spaces on Twitter, it's just gotten uglier. But I still find it useful. it's still, like, better to me than my alternative now.

00:08:01:01 - 00:08:35:19
Peter Flax
And it's, you know, a great town square for people who love bikes. And, and that part of what, again, my book touches on is, is that, like, bike culture is so far from monolithic that there are so many different sides to the community. And the Twitter was this place where everyone communed together. And that part of what I've seen in the last ten years of like things like pro bike racers getting involved in advocacy, a lot of that like happens through conversation on Twitter.

00:08:35:19 - 00:08:46:24
Peter Flax
Like it like has a platform on the way that people exchange ideas and and the polemics, conversations that happen, like, have really shaped the culture in the last ten years.

00:08:46:26 - 00:09:09:07
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you 100% on on each of those points. And, and I did pull up, you know, the, I guess the very first, Twitter post that I see here, you know, from four hours ago, again, what a lovely book. Peter Flax, thank you for your work on behalf of the entire community of cyclists.

00:09:09:09 - 00:09:30:15
John Simmerman
And, and I think that that's that's kind of the whole point is this this really is, you know, it's a little bit of a love letter to riding a bike. And and there's like no judgment. And I think that's part of what is there. And I'll let you expand upon that is that, you know, if you, if you, if you just if you're writing, if you're getting out there, you're doing it right.

00:09:30:19 - 00:09:32:10
John Simmerman
There's no judgment here.

00:09:32:12 - 00:09:56:29
Peter Flax
Yeah, yeah, I, I've, this is an idea that, has come to me, like, slowly and relentlessly over the time since I moved to LA of when I moved here, realizing that this old idea I had that everyone was in 1 or 2 subcultures that defined what kind of rider you were. And then I got here and suddenly felt like, I'm not really in any of them.

00:09:56:29 - 00:10:18:29
Peter Flax
Like, I have one foot in a bunch of them, and I just don't know who I am as a rider. And then slowly realizing that the thing, these things that we love about riding are this glue that doesn't get talked about enough and like very, gratified that you call it a love letter. It's not a term I would use, but I think that's what it is like.

00:10:18:29 - 00:10:43:01
Peter Flax
It, it, it started with me like I originally wanted to call this book Why We Ride. but it turns out someone wrote a motorcycle book of that name, so it was off the table. But it was like an exploration of why I and other people ride independent. Didn't have, like, what kind of apparel or bicycle they sit on.

00:10:43:01 - 00:11:04:03
Peter Flax
And it took like a year of thinking and then two years of writing to, distill down that thinking into what you just held up. And so, I would finally be out in the world and people like tweeting at me that they loved it is, really moving because it's. Yeah, it was a labor of love.

00:11:04:06 - 00:11:52:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And and what's really, really special about this is, is you take the readers on a journey, in a little bit, you know, starting with, with yourself and sort of how you started out with the bicycle. But you take the reader on a journey, and on this journey you introduce us to, to several many different characters and, and and that's what you mentioned there is that there's these like little profiles of these interesting and influential people and, you know, really culminating with what we just talked about is, you know, it really isn't necessarily about necessarily or tribes that we may have within this, but it really is this concept.

00:11:52:19 - 00:11:54:21
John Simmerman
If you're right, you're doing it right.

00:11:54:23 - 00:12:15:18
Peter Flax
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the people that are in the book are really important to me that, you know, I mean, I'm if I'm honest, like, I'm a lifelong magazine editor. So when I set out to write a book, it it kind of is like in some ways a book length magazine article where just the way I package and, elements.

00:12:15:18 - 00:12:45:15
Peter Flax
But I think you can't really capture the just beautiful diversity within this space if you don't talk to the people that like, capture the very best of the space. And and so, with the exception of, Paris Mayor and Hidalgo, who I still don't know, I know everybody else well, who I interview and profile, and having them all together in one place is really meaningful to me and hopefully to other people.

00:12:45:18 - 00:13:08:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, I pulled up, you know, sort of the table of contents, the introductions, the contents here so that you can see that we have it basically divided up into these six different, chapters or subcategories. Why don't you talk a little bit about how, you went about doing that and how you decided to, you know, sort of, choose these six as the the big buckets.

00:13:08:05 - 00:13:50:15
Peter Flax
Yeah, yeah. I, it's as a trivia question, it was originally seven, and I had self-expression and beauty as two separate ideas, and I wound up combining them. But these are like when, after spending like a year thinking about it, where were these, like, connective threads that are the things that people love about writing and that, like whether you're a casual transit rider or a hardcore commuter or a mountain biker or, road racer, a triathlete, that these are all things that I think you treasure more about your writing life.

00:13:50:15 - 00:14:13:19
Peter Flax
And so each chapter that goes into that idea where I, I substantiate what the idea is about and how it can manifest itself in different ways and go through some history that's relevant in that area and equipment that's sort of the best, you know, best case of what equipment can look like in that space. like a dream ride.

00:14:13:22 - 00:14:32:12
Peter Flax
really like hopefully in total people who come into it and think like, like, I don't think adventure is part of my riding life and I, I would I mean, I think most people do, but if they did, I think when they read it, they'll be like, oh, I, I actually I, I do like, I, I love being on a bike.

00:14:32:20 - 00:14:47:22
Peter Flax
And the way it captures this feeling of being a child again, of discovering things and, and hearing and seeing things that I wasn't expecting. and, and the same with the other chapters.

00:14:47:24 - 00:15:04:09
John Simmerman
As I'm looking at these, six different, areas here, I identify with all six of those in, in many different ways across, you know, my embarrassing number of bikes that happen to be in the garage.

00:15:04:11 - 00:15:29:12
Peter Flax
Well that's good. Yeah. I think some people are, like, least sure about competition. Like the the amount of people who race bikes in the U.S is a relatively small number. And so it's like easiest to dismiss that as something that you're like, well, I'm not I don't race, but but then a lot of people are like, oh, I love using Strava.

00:15:29:14 - 00:15:46:13
Peter Flax
or I love testing myself in some way. that that the sense of like how you find things out about yourself by testing yourself is, pretty universal. Bike is like an incredible thing for that.

00:15:46:15 - 00:16:10:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, I, I could easily see I see what you mean by the competition. I could also see it competition slash sports slash recreation. But you can even say that about, you know, that being captured in some of these other categories as well as, such as speed and etc. and even nature, I mean, it's just for me, it it was an absolute joy to go through this book.

00:16:10:26 - 00:16:25:06
John Simmerman
And I have to ask though, to I think I know the answer, but what really inspired you to do it as a book?

00:16:25:08 - 00:16:59:12
Peter Flax
I just felt like it was too big and I, I mean, I, I've written a lot of, relatively big magazine stories, like, I've written a bunch of, you know, 10,000 word magazine stories, which is about as big as those get. And this was just too big an idea for that and that I. So once I started thinking about there are relatively few books for bike riders that like aspire to capture something broad about the culture.

00:16:59:14 - 00:17:24:29
Peter Flax
And that kind of freaked me out, which is good for me like that. I was like, I didn't it's not like I could go to the bookstore and pick out a book and be like, oh, this is sort of, I want to update this for like the 2020s. It wasn't like that at all. And so I, I guess I decided that I was going to like, try and capture a broad perspective of why people ride.

00:17:25:01 - 00:17:51:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I guess I asked that question the way that I did, you know, fully knowing that, as a journalist, you've you've been in the heart of doing that for, for many, many years. And as an editor, you you've been a part of those stories. But, I guess the, the context of that, too, is that the result, the end result of this is that it's beautiful.

00:17:51:27 - 00:18:13:11
John Simmerman
And and the reason why I say it in that way is because sometimes when we think of book we, you're like, oh, yeah, I mean, this is like, oh, it's completely I mean, I've got one sitting right over there that I, that I'm going to be releasing tomorrow on the on on the podcast, that there's not a single photo in the entire, you know, tome.

00:18:13:14 - 00:18:40:17
John Simmerman
It's, it's rich in, in, in its description and its verbiage really brings the story to life. but in, in your case, I mean, we've got beautiful photography in here and it's a very, very high quality book, and the paper is very, very high quality. So, it's so rich to be able to like, you know, enjoy the story and the images that, that come about.

00:18:40:24 - 00:18:49:13
John Simmerman
It was that something that was going to be very important for you to make sure that this was something that almost you would expect to see somebody have on a coffee table?

00:18:49:15 - 00:19:24:10
Peter Flax
Yeah, that was kind of the idea from the start for it to be like a miniature coffee table kind of book and, and, yeah, I maybe because I've been an editor at a magazine for so long that I think I appreciate what strong photography can do. And I know that, like the experience of writing for me is so visceral that I think that words and photos together can, connect with people in a way that words alone can't.

00:19:24:12 - 00:19:58:06
Peter Flax
And I, the principal photography in the book are, is from, Jared and Ashley Gruber and John Watson, who are all people I've known and worked with and been friends with for a pretty long time. And they have kind of different folk focal points with the kind of writing photography they, they do. And so I felt like with them, I could get really beautiful photography that like covered, say, 90% of what I wanted in the book.

00:19:58:08 - 00:20:18:14
Peter Flax
And, and I think that when I talk to people now who've seen the book, I think they understand the power of this photography because it's like if it is like a love letter, this just makes it more emotional, right? When you look at a photo, like what I see on the screen right now, it's like people having fun.

00:20:18:14 - 00:20:44:12
Peter Flax
They're in a beautiful place. They're looks like they're on their bike at either the beginning or the end of the day, as the sun is breaking over trees and and there's just something so joyful and, and profound about the imagery that, like, underscores why we love this so, so much. Like, it's like for me and I think a lot of people, writing is not this is not a hobby.

00:20:44:14 - 00:20:52:27
Peter Flax
This is like a way of life for me. And and so I want that emotional quality to come through in the imagery.

00:20:53:00 - 00:21:06:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And you, you used the joy word which of of course is, you know, part of the title in that it's, it's live to ride finding joy and meaning on a bicycle.

00:21:06:02 - 00:21:43:12
Peter Flax
Yeah. And you know, I think that part of this also came from my experience in the last few years on Twitter where, you know, I love a good debate or even an argument and, and things can get, like, so polemic and so ideological that I really wanted to do something just purely positive to really like Kat, to really spend time kind of bathing in the things that I love about writing and, and, and, the things that unify everyone.

00:21:43:15 - 00:22:08:05
Peter Flax
and that was a really positive experience for me that while I, you know, advocacy, I think is like in this book in quiet ways, but it's not this is not a book trying to, like, tell people why we need more bike lanes or why drivers are idiots, which I can do plenty of on Twitter. This is like about why we ride and like, right?

00:22:08:05 - 00:22:36:12
Peter Flax
So if you see, a beautiful shot of someone riding in Copenhagen, there's I think a lot of like stealth advocacy in that kind of it's like visual propaganda, kind of like, well, this is like the dream. This is why we ride. And this is like, nobody's going to, like, have a a photo of someone riding in a crappy shoulder in Los Angeles with people in Escalades going 60 miles an hour next to them.

00:22:36:12 - 00:22:43:28
Peter Flax
So this is like there is advocacy in here, but it but it's like framed in a really positive, you know, inspirational way.

00:22:44:01 - 00:23:34:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And the image that we have on screen right now is, of course, of the snake there in Copenhagen, which is it's just an absolutely gorgeous, bridge cycling bridge that, you know, connects, you know, goes over the water, connects and critical areas there in the city of Copenhagen and, it's it's I think it really is important to understand that the whole reason why we're pushing so hard to try to create, transform or built environment into areas that are really safe and inviting and welcoming to everyone to ride, is so that more people can, in fact, experience that joy and freedom and utility and all of these other things that

00:23:34:09 - 00:23:36:11
John Simmerman
you capture in the book.

00:23:36:13 - 00:23:58:27
Peter Flax
Yeah, I totally agree, obviously. And one point I try and make a number of times in the book is, is that, if everybody who rides and realizes how much they have in common with everyone else who rides, even if they're riding, life is different that we have so much more strength as a community and that it's not like, right?

00:23:58:27 - 00:24:30:08
Peter Flax
Like, I know I've been a part of the advocacy community for a relatively long time, and it's easy to feel like you're in this battle by yourself in the advocacy community. But the reality is that now, like roadies are riding to the coffee shop and have, other kinds of bikes that they're, riding in. And everybody is sharing this experience that the roads and their communities are as good as they could be for riding.

00:24:30:08 - 00:24:40:29
Peter Flax
And and so the more that everybody, like, realizes that we're all just brothers and sisters riding, the more power we have to change things for the better.

00:24:41:02 - 00:25:33:08
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, and and I love the, the, the power in the imagery that comes out of, of Copenhagen because the Danes, especially there in, in Copenhagen, they don't even consider themselves cyclists. They just. Yeah. This is just what we do. They don't even consider it a culture. They that it's just a pragmatic way of getting around. And it's, it's a, I think a great illustration and lesson for us all when we're looking at trying to advocate for safer, more welcoming, places within our communities that accepts all different types of riders is to also understanding that we can sometimes, like, go overboard in our in our enthusiasm of, of our tribes and of

00:25:33:09 - 00:25:52:15
John Simmerman
our groups. And I think you do a beautiful job of of talking about that giving, paying homage to the fact that, yes, we we as human nature, we do naturally sort of get over there. But just like as I mentioned, I can see myself in all six of those different buckets because I have, you know, yes, I have my racing bike.

00:25:52:15 - 00:26:21:03
John Simmerman
Yes, I have my mountain bike. Yes, I have my commuter bike, and yes, I have my travel bike and and on and on and on and on and on. I see myself in all of those different layers, you know, a a typical comment from, from someone in the Netherlands or someone in, in, in, in Denmark might be, well, I don't call myself a cyclist any more than I would call myself a vacuum ist if I'm vacuuming my, my, you know, my living room.

00:26:21:06 - 00:26:54:00
Peter Flax
Yeah, I think a lot of Americans are increasingly tuned in to that. And I often try to avoid the word cyclist because it's easy to be misunderstood. Like in some ways I think a cyclist can just be, a person who rides a bike. But the term carries some historical baggage at this point in the US. And and I do think, you know, as you mentioned at the outset, my, my philosophy now is like, if you're riding a bike, you're doing it right.

00:26:54:00 - 00:27:14:23
Peter Flax
And, and so you don't have to imagine yourself as like an enthusiast, right? It like has all these sporting connotations. and, and I feel like I am a cyclist and I am a bike rider, and those are like two circles that intersect but aren't exactly the same thing.

00:27:14:25 - 00:27:47:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, zooming in on, a photo of this is not in your book. this is of my good friends, the Brant Watts on vacation. Actually, they in this particular photo, they are actually on their family vacation in, Copenhagen, of all places, although they now live in Delft in the Netherlands. When I first met, Chris and Melissa, when they were still living in the Vancouver area, the very first thing that they said to me was, why do you want to interview me?

00:27:47:19 - 00:28:11:22
John Simmerman
you know, we're not we're not active. We're not sports people. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, no, no, no, I definitely want to interview you. You're you're precisely the story that, that I want to talk about in that is, activity. Physical activity doesn't have to automatically be assumed that your athletic or it's a sport related type of activity.

00:28:11:22 - 00:28:12:21
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:28:12:23 - 00:28:50:17
Peter Flax
They're like a great inspiration, to me. And, I don't know if I can think of anybody and bike culture that's been more relentlessly constructive than them that, you never will see them get in an argument with anyone and they there's no hot takes from them. It's really like, it's like I have a couple of cookbooks in my kitchen where I know that if I pull them out that I'm going to get this, like really dependably great recipe of how to make something that I'm going to want.

00:28:50:17 - 00:29:06:02
Peter Flax
And I feel like that's what their content is like, is like a cookbook full of dependable recipes to make things better. And, and they really have impacted by culture on, multiple continents by doing that.

00:29:06:04 - 00:29:34:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And they are authors of two fabulous books themselves. And, we'll be sure to, leave those, links in the show notes below. the reason why I'm actually zooming in is not not to to diss on Rick, who is their their tour guide, but I'm actually focusing in on the person who is behind them, sort of, doing a little, a little, photobomb there because she's in a mobility trike.

00:29:34:15 - 00:30:01:27
John Simmerman
And that really sort of emphasizes what I try to, reinforce when we talk about cycling infrastructure. We're not talking about this being something that is for, again, the cyclists, the people who stereotypically we think of, we're really talking about safe and inviting all ages and all abilities. And we see somebody getting around on, an ability, tricycle there.

00:30:01:29 - 00:30:35:19
Peter Flax
Yeah. And, if I'm honest, that I used to like, ride and see people on like recumbent or trikes and just kind of be struck by their otherness. And now I feel something so radically different that like when, like I ride on the beach path on the way to work, in LA, and there's a lot of people who are on, recumbent and trikes and I just feel like, man, we're just in this together on a slightly different machine.

00:30:35:26 - 00:31:04:00
Peter Flax
And the reasons why we're out here are the same damn reasons. And so I'm, like, a little embarrassed to think that I used to, like, make jokes about dudes on recumbent, like, you know, and and, just like I made jokes about triathletes or a certain kind of mountain biker. And it was always good natured, but but that that, like, I leaned into that, segmentation.

00:31:04:00 - 00:31:19:24
Peter Flax
And now I just feel like a real, genuine sort of love for everyone who rides. Like, it's still like this big group of weirdos who love to do this thing and and, just feel like, yeah, we're all family.

00:31:19:26 - 00:31:40:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. And if we're if we really are successful, then we're not going to be a big group of weirdos. Will it will get to the point, just like they have in the Netherlands as well as in, a large part of Denmark and many other places. It's just. Yeah, it's just another mobility mode. It's not an otherness. It's just like, yeah.

00:31:40:15 - 00:31:50:23
John Simmerman
Oh yeah, that it's a practical way to get around. And sometimes it's a great way to recreate and experience nature and, and all these other aspects of it.

00:31:50:25 - 00:32:18:20
Peter Flax
Yeah. It's almost otherworldly when you make it sound that simple. Right. Like, I, I totally agree with you. And I often just get frustrated. Why it's not happening faster in, North America, because it just feels like in my lifetime, I presume that everything will get better in a continual way, but I, I sort of imagine that when I'm done riding, I'll still feel like a weirdo.

00:32:18:22 - 00:32:40:11
Peter Flax
just because of, like, how much resistance there is to just, like, accepting all these joys and meanings of bike culture. Like we're going to get more mainstream and we're going to ride will be safer and more popular. But I still think like 20 years from now that will still feel like weirdo. So that's just my guess. Lots of, you know.

00:32:40:14 - 00:33:03:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, I hope hopefully you're wrong on that, that hopefully we won't still be considered weirdos on that. What's really, really interesting about to where you happen to live. And, before we hit the record button, you know, I divulged that you know, I used to hang out there, all the time in the South Bay area. I learned how to surf while I was attending, USC for undergrad.

00:33:03:04 - 00:33:25:02
John Simmerman
right there at 30th Street in, Hermosa Beach, and then spent a lot of time surfing all up and down the area there, especially El Puerto, which, you had mentioned that you ride right past on your way to the office. What's really great about, a path like that, which has been a vibrant path ever since I was there in the early 80s, is that you do see all types.

00:33:25:02 - 00:33:53:26
John Simmerman
And you mentioned it, you know, with the mobility trikes and other recumbent and things like that. That's the point, is that when you do have a safe and inviting infrastructure and a network of that infrastructure is you have a, a broader diversity of the overall population, you know, that's doing that. And the process of building out our network is, you know, it's money at some point, it's political will, certainly.

00:33:53:29 - 00:34:22:24
John Simmerman
But when we look to the experience there in the Netherlands, that, you know, the, the outlets have so eloquently discussed in their books, it's it's not out of reach. I mean, they essentially transform their built environment, over basically a five decade period. The majority of their infrastructure has actually been built, I think some 70 to 80% of the of the network has been built since the 1990s.

00:34:22:26 - 00:34:52:03
Peter Flax
So there's yeah, I yeah, no, no, I definitely think the transformation is possible here and will have happened here. I think it's all a question of just like how long it's going to take and how many people will be scared off from riding in the meantime. And, and so I feel attuned to it. I think it's like to be in a place like Los Angeles, it's impossible not to be attuned to it.

00:34:52:03 - 00:35:17:15
Peter Flax
Right? Like, I, I ride my bicycle to work, and it's like, almost always beautiful weather. And the car trip from where I live to where I work is horrible. Like, everyone walks into the office, just like hating life and then wondering when they're going to get some time to, like, work out or think, you know, without, you know, being assaulted by, the world.

00:35:17:15 - 00:35:41:20
Peter Flax
And, and I get all of those things and, so, so it's, there are a lot of, like, institutional challenges that will need to be overcome, but I totally think they will happen. I think just the there's all these forces that are happening that will make it happen because, you know, the bike is the answer to so many questions.

00:35:41:22 - 00:35:52:28
Peter Flax
And so I just feel like it will happen. But I think if you ride a lot in a city in the US, it's easy to get frustrated at the pace that's happening. Right? Like at that.

00:35:53:01 - 00:36:28:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally. Totally. and as somebody who has, you know, basically five decades, close to five decades worth of experience also riding, in, in Southern California, I can say that in, in when I visit Southern California, I usually travel with my, my traveling bicycle. So I've got my Brompton with me. I'll fly into LAX. I'll take the little shuttle bus over so that I can get on whatever the train is, the green train or whatever, and and then make my way into, into the downtown LA area.

00:36:28:13 - 00:36:50:27
John Simmerman
I usually get off the train there, near the USC campus so I can ride on my bike through campus and remember the glory days of being there in the 80s. But then I'll ride my bike from from USC campus into the downtown LA, area, taking in the protected bike lane along Figueroa. I was actually there documenting it, right after they opened it.

00:36:50:27 - 00:37:23:28
John Simmerman
And Nacho was, was there had their their annual meeting there. Jump on the train again, go through Pasadena, head out to where my relatives are out in the Glendora area. And I'm really noticing that that's one of the great things that a lot of people don't know about the LA metro area is that it is the fastest mover in terms of the total number of miles of, rail transit that's being built out and really helping to facilitate.

00:37:23:28 - 00:37:48:09
John Simmerman
And this is really the thing that I love the most about the Dutch network is that you have an overlay of being able to get on a train, do that longer trip than you get off the train and then you've got an integrated cycling network. And so the fact that they're building out the the metro line and hopefully they will catch up and build a little bit more quickly.

00:37:48:09 - 00:38:19:03
John Simmerman
As you were talking about alluding to that bicycle network that is considered an all ages and abilities type of bicycle network, as well as taking advantage of the quiet residential streets, which is oftentimes the hidden beauty of, of the the Dutch system. And the Danish system is that the 60 to 70% of their cycle network is actually some form of shared space where there's low traffic and low speed environment.

00:38:19:04 - 00:38:22:06
John Simmerman
Right. I think LA's got because you mentioned it's got the great weather.

00:38:22:06 - 00:38:52:23
Peter Flax
So the yeah, the potential is potential is super high. I like in the last year I've got this new hobby of like trying to concoct, long bike rides that involve a train. and so I've like, looked at, Metrolink as sort of the longer distance, commuter rail system. And I just look at what the end of each of the lines are and whether I can just, like, ride a bike there and then take a train home.

00:38:52:23 - 00:39:15:05
Peter Flax
So I've, like, ridden, San Bernardino and ridden down to Oceanside and, you know, going places where rather than trying to do a round trip where I loop back to where I started, I just added a train station and can like, buy a bunch of stuff at 7-Eleven and sit on a plane and, train and recuperate and enjoy the ride.

00:39:15:08 - 00:39:36:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, you know, and I was just up in Santa Barbara documenting, the build out of there, Bicycle Network, because they're really moving fast, to try to, to to do a better job there. And I was interviewing some of the city staff there, and we were talking about the fact that, yeah, you can like, catch the train, come on up from LA, get off of the train.

00:39:36:18 - 00:39:45:27
John Simmerman
And their dream is to be able to have, you know, safe and inviting infrastructure that, you know, can get people around. You can explore the entire city.

00:39:45:29 - 00:40:15:18
Peter Flax
Yeah, it's a great city to ride in. I think a lot of university towns are kind of ahead of, of like other other, other towns. you know, I think a lot of ways just like anywhere where there's a lot of young people who are like just more open to things being different and better. There's like less of this, you know, sort of baby boomer status quo oriented people who, you know, have a harder time thinking about the positives of change.

00:40:15:20 - 00:40:28:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that we haven't mentioned yet about the book, the narrative storylines that you want to make sure to leave the audience with?

00:40:28:06 - 00:41:02:03
Peter Flax
Well, I guess we didn't talk much about nature. And I would say that, like, even for people who live in cities, this is a really important element of, of, of, of writing that I think our lives have just become so busy and so digitized that, that feeling of like weather for me, it's riding along the ocean, or someone who goes to a city park to just do a few laps that, you know, we're really needing connection to the outdoors.

00:41:02:05 - 00:41:31:28
Peter Flax
we needing to feel like, alive and aware of, like, the weather and the terrain and the wind. And I think there's something really primal and important and, like, experiencing the the natural world on a, on a bike that, that that, I totally get why people go to a gym and do, you know, a spin class or they ride in the winter and do Zwift.

00:41:32:01 - 00:41:58:22
Peter Flax
And so I just the efficiency of of that is, great. But I think being outside and riding is, is such a beautiful thing that most people who ride really appreciate that even like, right, like our, our apparel choices. You can be comfortable in a really wide range of weather and environments. And, and there's like there's something about it that makes you feel alive.

00:41:58:29 - 00:42:11:23
Peter Flax
And and I'm just like, aware of that all, all the time of, of of like how I feel sustained in my riding by being, you know, in, in the natural world.

00:42:11:25 - 00:42:35:03
John Simmerman
I'm really glad that you brought that up and mentioned that it, it, it harkens back to some conversations that I've had with, Ryan Van Duzer, who has a wonderful channel, out here on, on, on YouTube that and he talks about that a lot. He does these adventure videos and, and really talks about how that getting that connectivity and connection to nature.

00:42:35:05 - 00:42:55:18
John Simmerman
And he always tries to capture a little bit of that beauty, you know, from his end, you know, from his adventures. So it's not just, it's not adrenaline, this and all that. It's like taking a deep breath, taking the time to appreciate it. And sometimes that that glimpse of nature can be a part of just your daily routine, too.

00:42:55:21 - 00:43:32:03
John Simmerman
I can remember beautiful mornings there in Manhattan Beach, especially in the wintertime after a big storm or something, and the wind would whip across the sand and create, like this quarter Roy effect, on the sand. And even before a very first, you know, footstep ever even touched it. And it's just it's one of the things that we have a chance to appreciate when we're moving, you know, closer to human speed when we're moving at ten miles an hour on the bike path and we're like, oh, wow, this is just extraordinarily beautiful.

00:43:32:05 - 00:43:52:20
Peter Flax
And yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I, my wife has a car and I have some, responsibilities that involve me driving. And the way I think about it is that, like, when I'm driving a car, I feel like I'm watching a movie, and when I'm riding my bike, I feel like I'm in the movie, and it's like, just like you're.

00:43:52:27 - 00:44:19:24
Peter Flax
You're part of it, you know? And it's not all just nature. It's like, you know, when I. When I ride by the taco trucks in LA, I smell the taco trucks. I hear all the languages that people are talking as they're walking around. I like, smell the fresh cut grass as guys are working on people's lawns. It's it's, you know, it's not like I'm in this living room listening to a podcast.

00:44:19:24 - 00:44:36:05
Peter Flax
No offense to podcasts. It's just like I'm out there experiencing the world I live in, and it's really easy to get disconnected from that. Like, the bicycle is an incredible way to make you feel more connected to where you are.

00:44:36:08 - 00:45:08:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. In the it's it's powerful to to have that opportunity to have that presence and, and be able to be right there in the moment and you mentioned the headphones and and listening to things I tend to listen to my podcasts when I'm just sort of walking, in my neighborhood around here. But when I try to have my weekly run in the trail, I always make sure that I'm not wearing headphones.

00:45:08:28 - 00:45:21:12
John Simmerman
I want to be in the moment. I want to be present. I want to hear the birds because that's part of, you know, activating all of our senses. I get the sense that you do that when you ride. Two, you're not listening to things.

00:45:21:15 - 00:45:46:19
Peter Flax
Yeah, it's almost, hard for me to explain. Like, I spend a lot of time on my bike and I never listen to content or music. You know, I just, it's. I think it would to me, it would be like if someone was really into, say, yoga. Like, they wouldn't listen to music or a podcast when they do it, it's like there's something more than just a physical activity happening.

00:45:46:19 - 00:46:09:07
Peter Flax
And so I want to be like, I want to be present in a certain sort of way, and I want to be like lost mentally in a certain sort of way. Like a lot of times I'm just mulling over things in my life and things with work. And when I, I get to work and I take a shower and suddenly like three ideas are in my head, and that's because of, like, the way I'm open to it and the flow state I'm in for writing.

00:46:09:07 - 00:46:42:04
Peter Flax
And so I yeah, I wouldn't want to be listening to to to I love I don't there's nothing boring about it to me. And also like writing in LA, I think I just want to be 100% like tuned in to what's going on around me. It's not at all like, ride in the park. The one other thing I'll say that we didn't talk about was, self-expression, which was like the hardest chapter to write because it's really about a few different things.

00:46:42:04 - 00:47:21:17
Peter Flax
Like part of it superficially is just about this way in which, like, fashion has seeped into riding culture, where you can wear whatever you want. And there's just like more ways to just be your true self when you're on a bike. But on a deeper level, it becomes this sense of like about tolerance and equity and about being open to not just your own ability to express yourself on your bike, but to just accept everybody else who's different than you expressing themselves on a on a bike.

00:47:21:17 - 00:47:58:06
Peter Flax
And I've seen in the last 4 or 5 years, like a lot of positive change and a lot of friction around that latter topic. And so wanted to like do some thinking about about that. Right. Like that all manner of people who are having like different life circumstances and have different choices and a different lifestyle, a different life are riding and that to just like lean as far away from those differences as possible to, to, to really think that everybody's just trying to find their way.

00:47:58:06 - 00:48:27:09
Peter Flax
And the bike is this tool to help them feel whole and, and so I do think that's about as idealogical and polemic as the book gets. And even then I think it's hopefully a soft touch, but but it's like this idea of of acceptance, right. Like that, that bike advocacy is part of this larger advocacy movement of just like wanting everyone to feel safe in their lives, whether they're on a bike or off a bike.

00:48:27:09 - 00:48:44:12
Peter Flax
And so if you're talking about bike advocacy, you have to think about what life is like off the bike for a lot of people. And so the chapter gets into some, some, some of that of like how these beautiful challenges that our culture wrestling with how they play out and bike culture.

00:48:44:14 - 00:49:08:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And of course we have the image that we have on here on screen right now is an expression of that a little bit in the sense that, you know, this is the bike life sort of movement and the joy, especially in the inner cities of, you know, people expressing themselves, the they you can kind of look and see that they've, they, they have customize their bikes, they love their bikes.

00:49:08:26 - 00:49:35:08
John Simmerman
They get together, they have a hoot. They have a fun, a great deal of fun while doing it. but as you mentioned too, you know, the the expression chapter really goes into, a diversity of different themes and really, you know, embrace this, you know, again, that cross-section of the diversity that exists out on our streets and in our cities as it is.

00:49:35:11 - 00:50:10:12
Peter Flax
Yeah, yeah. And I think, I think it's understood, almost unspoken, that everyone who rides thinks doing wheelies is cool. And, I, I cannot personally do a dependable wheelie and so I feel great admiration and envy for those kids and, you know, to live in a, in an urban area where, you don't have the easiest access to the kind of riding that a lot of other people take for granted and to, like, carve out this really artistic culture that has, like this, political element to it.

00:50:10:12 - 00:50:31:04
Peter Flax
I think it's, I think bike life is a beautiful thing. And, and I'm like, just so happy that I consider those, those men and women like my brothers and sisters, like, I think it's so cool. And, I think there's a lot of, like, elements of bike culture that are like that, that I just want to, like, bring in and and not think of as other.

00:50:31:06 - 00:50:54:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. One of the things that I love too, is like when there's a mashup of different identities and different cultures and, I noticed this when I lived in Southern California, and I also noticed it when I lived in, in Hawaii is that, you know, I would be like, oh, yeah, I love to ride. And oh, yeah, I love to ride both my surfboard and my bike.

00:50:54:20 - 00:51:23:18
John Simmerman
And I loved that utility of being able to, throw the board on the bike and be able to get, you know, go check out the different, surf breaks and see what's happening and, and connect with, you know, friends and other people that, you know, are actual friend friends, but other people who you recognize and, and they're sort of like, oh, yeah, the recognize stranger that you don't really know their name, but you always say, hi.

00:51:23:21 - 00:51:32:12
John Simmerman
There's a certain level of social cohesion that comes from from that. And being able to, to travel closer at human speed.

00:51:32:14 - 00:52:02:04
Peter Flax
Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, the whole, culture of surfing and riding together is such a beautiful thing. I think in a place like Manhattan Beach or maybe even more at a place like San Clemente that, you realize at some point the utility of a bike is, like, off the charts, right? Like that in Manhattan Beach, where I live, there's one popular break that's got a giant parking lot.

00:52:02:04 - 00:52:32:07
Peter Flax
And so it's always really crowded. But there are spots that are like a mile or two away that are just as good. And if you have a bike that can take a surfboard, you suddenly can access things that like are challenging with a car and, and right. Like this way in which like I get all these polemic arguments on, on Twitter where people are like, well, let's see you get to go to Home Depot and buy, like, you know, 100 cinder blocks and get those home on your bike.

00:52:32:07 - 00:53:05:03
Peter Flax
And it's like, okay, but there are tons of things where the bike is the optimal way to do something with utility, right? Like, I live like three quarters of a mile from a Trader Joe's that always has like a million people circling the parking lot looking for a space and hating themselves. And I'm like a VIP where I roll up to the front door and park my bike and walk in, and it's like, undoubtedly the fastest, least stressful way to shop at Trader Joe's.

00:53:05:03 - 00:53:19:10
Peter Flax
And there's thousands of examples of things like that where the bike is, triumphal. Yeah. Carry a huge plant, for instance. Right. Yeah. You go. The turn is so sweet. I love that bike.

00:53:19:13 - 00:53:48:06
John Simmerman
I love that bike too. Yeah, that is my bike. That is. That's the turn. GSD with the, the gates, belt drive on there. and it's, it's a workhorse and, and yeah, talking about, you know, going, rolling to the grocery store and yeah, I can easily, you know, pick up $250 worth of groceries and, and get it up the steep hill, up to the house, here, in, in South Austin and, yeah.

00:53:48:11 - 00:54:19:25
John Simmerman
And I'm really glad that the, the conversation went in this direction because it talks a little bit about the, the power of electric assist and what it can do for us. Because honestly, with North America, with the distances that we have, in front of us, it does put us at a little bit more of a disadvantage when we do, you know, city by city comparisons, to a place like Delft in the Netherlands, where Chris and Melissa and family live.

00:54:19:27 - 00:54:51:01
John Simmerman
And so having that little bit of electric assist really helps flatten those hills and decrease the amount of, of strain that that's that, that, that steep wind in your face can, can do. Talk a little bit about that perspective, because I suspect that you probably have had a little bit of a shift in your own view of, of what electric enthusiast bikes have been, you know, over the period.

00:54:51:01 - 00:54:52:13
John Simmerman
I know I have.

00:54:52:15 - 00:55:26:14
Peter Flax
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I, I first, tried e-bikes when I was working at bicycling. So these were, you know, like 12, 13 years ago. And at the time they seemed like fun toys. Right. And I thought they I always thought they were cool, but they seemed like recreational toys. And I didn't see the full utility. And so, yeah, my perspective has changed.

00:55:26:16 - 00:56:02:19
Peter Flax
I, I have a banjo, cargo bike, and I use it a little bit less than I did a few years ago, because I'm just in a mode of, like, feeling fit and just liking to do everything on a conventional bike. But there have been times where it was really important vehicle in my lives. And, and I do think this old trope that a lot of road cyclists have that e-bikes are cheating somehow is like got to be one of the dumber tropes in bike culture, right?

00:56:02:19 - 00:56:28:16
Peter Flax
Like you're being like, we're in a culture where people like getting up 6,000 pound SUV and like drive to Starbucks and get drive through and then drive home. Right. Like being on a pedal assist bike is not cheating in any way. And that for all the emotional things I talk about in the book of like the reasons why you ride, they all apply like it's everyone who rides any bike knows they're on a bike, right?

00:56:28:16 - 00:56:55:13
Peter Flax
Like the all of the the physics and the emotions are the same. and that it gives like a wider range of people, a sense of what our infrastructure is like and how and what driving culture is, is like. It's all positives as far as I'm concerned. And, and feel like usually when I hear people complaining about e-bikes, I've never read one.

00:56:55:16 - 00:57:23:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, absolutely. Peter, this has been so much fun. I want to pull I want to pull up, the the book here. this is my bookshop. This is the Active Towns bookshop, and I've got your book right here. on the podcast featured books right next to, Chris and Melissa's two books, Curbing Traffic and Building the Cycling City and, folks pick up this book.

00:57:23:06 - 00:57:36:26
John Simmerman
This is a fantastic book. The publisher, Hachette Book Group again, live to ride finding joy and meaning on a bicycle. Peter Flax. This has been such a joy having you on the active Towns bike. Yes. Thank you so much.

00:57:36:28 - 00:57:45:11
Peter Flax
I really enjoyed the conversation. We kind of, went over just such a wide range of topics. It's been a great conversation.

00:57:45:14 - 00:58:00:01
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, being honored to have you subscribe to the channel, just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notifications bell.

00:58:00:07 - 00:58:23:09
John Simmerman
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00:58:23:12 - 00:58:42:12
John Simmerman
and hey, thank you all so much for tuning in today. I really do appreciate it. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again, sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks.

00:58:42:14 - 00:58:53:09
John Simmerman
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