Ep 161 Audio Transcript from the video version (Note: not proofed)

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:18:26
Chris Cox
We don't want to punish people for driving, but we need to normalize not driving as a viable and pleasant option. You know, that's what's going to get people to do. It is like if riding a bike or walking or catching public transport is as pleasant as driving is or inconvenient is, driving is and people will do it.

00:00:19:04 - 00:00:42:00
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Journal. I'm Jon Zimmerman and that is Chris Cox from Brisbane, Australia. Chris is a local advocate for safer cycling facilities and has a YouTube channel as well. And he had a YouTube video that went viral a few months back and I asked him if he wouldn't mind coming on the podcast to talk a little bit about it, and that is what this is.

00:00:42:01 - 00:00:47:16
John Simmerman
So without further ado, let's get right to it with Chris Cox.

00:00:50:23 - 00:00:54:25
John Simmerman
Chris Cox, it's so wonderful to have you here on the Active Towns podcast. Welcome.

00:00:55:27 - 00:00:56:29
Chris Cox
Thanks, John. Great to be here.

00:00:57:13 - 00:01:06:29
John Simmerman
So, Chris, I love having my guests sort of introduce themselves and give a little bit of a background. So, you know, tell us who you are and where you're from.

00:01:07:25 - 00:01:29:15
Chris Cox
Well, I am from Brisbane in Australia. I'm an I.T. Analysts Project manager, so I'm not particularly in the profession of urban planning or anything. But I began riding a bike to work about ten years ago when I realized I was just driving my car to the train station and back everyday, and that was all it was for. So I got me started.

00:01:30:13 - 00:01:50:27
Chris Cox
And since then, you know, there were some things that happened. Some people that some crashes happened and things like that, which sort of motivated me to advocate more because I really enjoyed my experience riding to work, but wasn't terribly good for other people. And I wanted other people to have the opportunity. So I got heavily involved in some community advocacy I run on.

00:01:50:27 - 00:02:23:05
Chris Cox
The Bridge has been West Bicycle User Group, which is a community advocacy group in the Western suburbs of Brisbane. And we sort of have formed a space for cycling Brisbane campaign across other buggies across Brisbane to try and push that message to encourage the city to build more active transport. I mean my fade into some politics briefly. I ran as the Queensland Senate candidate for the Australian cyclist Party in 2016, so I had a bit of experience sort of trying to get into that room and it was a bit of fun.

00:02:23:05 - 00:02:39:04
Chris Cox
So yeah, I've got three kids and a wife and we live in the western suburbs of Brisbane and I try to live a calm, light lifestyle which can be challenging in a very car centric city like Brisbane. So I'm like, I guess that's me in a bit of a nutshell.

00:02:39:15 - 00:02:47:02
John Simmerman
Fantastic, that's great. I love the fact that what was the party name that you ran on the ticket this year.

00:02:47:15 - 00:02:57:06
Chris Cox
The Australian Cyclist Party, so that they formed about ten years ago. Yeah. It's trying to push that active travel across across Australia.

00:02:57:28 - 00:03:17:18
John Simmerman
So it's since I've got here, I've got a map here of Brisbane and I'm going to zoom out so we can sort of orient since we've got an international audience here. And as I was mentioning to you before we hit the record button, I've never been to Australia. I really need to get there. I've been on that side of the world before.

00:03:18:04 - 00:03:44:06
John Simmerman
I lived in the Philippine Islands for an entire year, but that was way back in the eighties. So I definitely need to get back to that side of the world and I need to get over to Australia and check it out. I mentioned to you also before we hit record that I'm a surfer, so I would love to go check out some of the surf spots in the Gold Coast, which are starting to zoom in on here.

00:03:44:06 - 00:03:54:28
John Simmerman
And yeah, and so you mentioned that you're sort of in the western suburbs. And as we kind of get in here, see if we can find your spot again.

00:03:56:03 - 00:04:06:23
Chris Cox
Warmer. Warmer. Yeah, I'm a little bit. Zoom in. Zoom in there a little bit. Yeah. It's so up a bit higher. Sorry. So gingerly little. It's near the top of the screen. Yeah. They go.

00:04:07:27 - 00:04:09:23
John Simmerman
Gently. There we are. Yeah.

00:04:10:04 - 00:04:30:13
Chris Cox
So we're at about 15 kilometers from Brisbane CBD. Yeah. Which at the time is where I was working. So I was as I said, I was driving five kilometers to the nearest train station with our second car and trying to work and back everyday. And I started thinking what, what's the, what's the point of this second car. Maybe I can just ride to the train station.

00:04:30:16 - 00:04:31:27
Chris Cox
Yeah.

00:04:31:27 - 00:04:58:10
John Simmerman
So and so looking at this map going, what's all this green here? So this is Google Maps and I've got the the filter for the bike routes turned on. And so these are the these are the bike lanes, the bike paths. And then when you see sort of dotted lines, that means it's theoretically a a bicycle friendly street.

00:04:59:07 - 00:05:28:29
John Simmerman
But you'll notice that not all of the residential streets have that indication, which we can talk about a little bit, because I think that the cities could benefit from the fact that many of the quiet residential streets are just like they're invisible. They don't have, you know, an indication that, you know, as long as there's enough traffic coming in, the speeds aren't too great.

00:05:28:29 - 00:05:40:24
John Simmerman
They're more than likely. You know, many of these streets that are right next to streets that have the dash line are probably quite comfortable to ride on. So.

00:05:40:24 - 00:05:43:20
Chris Cox
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

00:05:44:11 - 00:06:23:10
John Simmerman
And I'm sure we'll talk about the 30 kilometers per hour campaign and and I think that that's that's part of the relevance to what we're just talking about here is that, you know, if these streets in this in these residential areas were they had a a 30 kilometers per hour, you know, designation then inherently, especially if you can also couple that with some permeability and some other traffic calming features to it, suddenly you're you're able to really open up a tremendous amount of real estate for people to to ride.

00:06:23:16 - 00:06:25:16
John Simmerman
So and again, it's.

00:06:25:16 - 00:06:26:15
Chris Cox
100% yeah, I'm.

00:06:26:15 - 00:06:50:03
John Simmerman
Sure we'll talk about that. But before we do that, one of the things that caught my eye from way back when it had to have been like, you know, four months or so ago, was that you started to trend a little bit on Twitter. And it was all because of this this video that you produced. And by the way, we didn't mention that.

00:06:50:24 - 00:06:55:15
Chris Cox
No, we didn't mention my YouTube channel. Your YouTube channel. I'm terrible. Terrible at selling my channel.

00:06:55:15 - 00:07:22:29
John Simmerman
So let's get let's get over here. So here here you are. Here's Cox's gone riding the YouTube channel. Take us back to nine years ago. I mean, you've got a you've got a 30,000 K, you know, you've got a third it's 30,000 views on your nine year old video here on Cleat Fail. Talk a little bit about your YouTube channel, why you started originally and what it's sort of evolved into over the years.

00:07:23:23 - 00:07:39:24
Chris Cox
Yeah, well, I mean, early on in my time riding to work, I was having a few, you know, incidents and things and I was a little bit concerned about my safety. So I invested in a, a cycling camera, which the kind of remember the make up on that wasn't a GoPro, it didn't have that kind of money back then for that.

00:07:41:00 - 00:08:00:15
Chris Cox
And so I just started a YouTube channel just to upload some of the clips and share my frustration with fellow cyclists on or around the place. So yeah, it was usually just clips about things I'd seen, you know, some silly driving or whatever. And I don't know what it is about that video, but I was just stuck behind a a guy with cleat pedals.

00:08:00:15 - 00:08:21:26
Chris Cox
He just couldn't get them in. And when you're riding in a in an urban environment with lots of traffic lights, you stop, start a lot. It was very noticeable. So, you know, back then I didn't wear cleats at all. I have moved on. I do have cleats now. But yeah. So for for riding and to work, I was just like, well, why would you bother with that stuff?

00:08:21:26 - 00:08:33:06
Chris Cox
It just seems to be more of a hassle. But yes, anyway, so that video seemed to have. Yeah. Clicked with people. I think that there's always that debate, you know, should I get cleats, should I not? So people are looking for evidence. Why or why not?

00:08:33:06 - 00:09:06:05
John Simmerman
So yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's sort of the, the active town's position on it is we're pretty agnostic in terms of different types of bikes. We're just like, Hey, if you're riding, that's fantastic, get out and ride. And you know, we don't get get too hung up into the other stuff. But 90% of the time when I'm riding, you know, I'm I'm riding from the house down to the downtown area either for meetings or meeting up with folks, head down for coffee or something like that, or head to the grocery store.

00:09:06:18 - 00:09:30:02
John Simmerman
And so 90% of the time I'm on either my electric assist cargo bike or I'm on my, my, my priority 600, you know, bike that has really nice pinion gear, shifting system and just a super smooth, smooth ride, but also very much like very upright bike. And and I just wear my normal clothes and I don't wear a helmet.

00:09:30:02 - 00:10:01:07
John Simmerman
And, you know, I try to humanize that interaction as much as possible. I don't want it to look like I'm, you know, somebody doing something special, you know, in terms of like kitting out and wearing my, my, my cleats and all that sort of stuff, which I do have on my racing bike, which when I get out and do that or I have special mountain biking shoes when I'm out on my mountain bike and getting out into the singletrack and all that sort of stuff, very technical areas.

00:10:01:20 - 00:10:15:09
John Simmerman
But for the most part it's just like, yeah, it's super, super chill. And yeah, I wouldn't wear cleats for going to get coffee. You're still going to the grocery store? That would just make it inconvenient.

00:10:15:25 - 00:10:39:12
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've got these Shimano casual type cleat shoes. So the closer are embedded and I can just sort of I can walk around and they don't click clack, which is nice. But yes, I'm often I've got meetings we we've got a an active travel advisory committee group, which is sort of the combined state and local government committee and stakeholders that we meet every quarter.

00:10:39:18 - 00:10:50:16
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm right to that, I'll just ride in, you know, smart casual business clothes with flat shoes and because you want to look like, well, hang on, this is just for everyday people. This is.

00:10:50:18 - 00:10:51:03
John Simmerman
That's right.

00:10:51:04 - 00:11:12:22
Chris Cox
Yeah, it's, you know, cycling isn't, you know, a hardcore activity. It's just a way to get from A to B. So, yeah, it's, you know, people people can wear what they like. Unfortunately in Brisbane and Australia helmet's an option and we have a mandatory helmet law here and you risk it's a $143 fine at the moment if you're paying for that one.

00:11:12:22 - 00:11:43:22
John Simmerman
So yeah. And if, if I recall or I'll get over here to this, this view for just a second. As I recall when I interviewed Mark von Mark Kimber sorry. Mark with Bicycle Dutch, I think it was Brisbane where he was pulled over by the the police and, and I saw a post I think earlier today that the Brisbane Police District kind of notoriously aggressive and rude to cycling is cyclists.

00:11:43:22 - 00:11:44:15
John Simmerman
Is that correct.

00:11:45:07 - 00:12:09:16
Chris Cox
Yeah. I mean wouldn't necessarily route or not but that's yeah there's they do blitzes and they like they like to target vulnerable road users, you know, to tackle what, you know, what Americans would call jaywalking, you know, people crossing the road and spread and things like that. And, you know, there's a particular area where they do like to to camp out in the bicentennial bikeway.

00:12:09:16 - 00:12:24:00
Chris Cox
It's our main route in from the West into the city. And, you know, they'll they'll pull over every cyclist and they'll be, you know, checking your helmet. They'll be checking your bell if you can have a bell as well. That's also $143 fine. If you don't have a bell on your bike and just, you know, things like that.

00:12:24:00 - 00:12:34:06
Chris Cox
So yeah, I mean, it's very much a, you know, we've got this reputation of being a bit of a laidback country, but we really do love our rules and law enforcement. Yeah.

00:12:34:23 - 00:12:55:03
John Simmerman
Well, it's not to say that, you know, the Danes and the Dutch don't have, you know, rules and regulations associated with their bikes. They do. I mean, absolutely. Like when you're supposed to have a light, you know, both front and back, and I believe you're supposed to have a bell as well. So it's but the aggressiveness is what's really, really mind boggling.

00:12:55:03 - 00:13:04:28
John Simmerman
And like you said, you know, that they're focusing in on the vulnerable road users and like blaming the victim kind of mentality is very, very concerning.

00:13:05:15 - 00:13:25:15
Chris Cox
Yeah, absolutely. And we you know, we have a safe passing law. So we've got one meters, one meter and 60 kilometers an hour, 1.5 meters over 70 kilometers an hour. But and theoretically, we can send, you know, video footage to the police and get get action on that. It's like pulling teeth, you know, to get to get a conviction for that.

00:13:25:15 - 00:13:48:22
Chris Cox
But, you know, police will happily, you know, take people out for not having a bell on their bike or whatever. But, yeah, you know, people people argue rules are rules. We expect motorists to obey the rules. But I think there's a bit of a a disconnect in perception of risk. You know, like the cyclists network not having a bell, you know, they're not going to pose the same risk as a motorist that's driving 20 guys over the speed limit, you know, that kind of thing.

00:13:48:28 - 00:13:54:22
Chris Cox
Yeah. But yeah, it was interesting that that incident was with Mark. I remember I probably can't say his name.

00:13:54:22 - 00:13:56:11
John Simmerman
Right, although I think he did. Yeah.

00:13:56:18 - 00:13:57:11
Chris Cox
Yeah, he.

00:13:57:17 - 00:14:00:13
John Simmerman
Was. I did. Sorry.

00:14:00:13 - 00:14:10:22
Chris Cox
He was actually riding with a mate of mine, Paul, who was showing him around Brisbane and Paul's a strong advocate against mandatory helmet laws and, and so and he's also a.

00:14:11:07 - 00:14:41:27
John Simmerman
Guy by the way. Yeah, yeah. As a, as a public health professional with 30 years experience, I can tell you that that particular law, that particular approach does more to prevent people to, you know, to ride. And so, you know, from various different levels, it's friction. But also it sends the wrong message. It sends the message that that cycling is a dangerous activity.

00:14:42:04 - 00:15:08:20
John Simmerman
And it's it shouldn't be. I mean, we've got countries that, you know, prove that it's not a inherently dangerous activity. Now, context sensitive, obviously, if you're of course, if you're traveling at 25 miles per hour, you know, whatever that is in kilometers, I mean, that's a 40, you know, it's yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, use common sense folks but yeah.

00:15:08:20 - 00:15:31:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. When we look at the number of people who whose lives would have been saved by the reduction in, you know, health care costs in in all these other factors, not to mention just the impact on the environment and everything else. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just doesn't, it doesn't add up from that sense.

00:15:31:02 - 00:15:44:03
Chris Cox
No, it doesn't. And, and I haven't got the, the, the, the data on me. But if you look at the Australian census data for cycling participation, yeah, it dropped off a cliff as soon as the mandatory had something going on.

00:15:44:11 - 00:15:56:24
John Simmerman
On every single municipality and every single state that has done this, it drops off. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty unambiguous and we don't need to go into that detail because it has been.

00:15:57:08 - 00:15:58:08
Chris Cox
Looked at, it's been done.

00:15:58:18 - 00:16:21:23
John Simmerman
It's the second video here, the second highest video of all time, 18,000 views. This is the one that that really captured the attention out on out on Twitter and, you know, kind of went live. I'm going to play this just a little bit. I want to play the opening at least and add the video or add the sound to this.

00:16:22:14 - 00:16:27:16
John Simmerman
Great. Let's hit play and turn the volume up. It's already turned up.

00:16:27:16 - 00:16:43:24
Chris Cox
So I did an interview yesterday with Channel seven Years and it was great stuff was, you know, my in-depth analysis about the geo political fallout of the federal election and what it means for cycling in Brisbane and particularly the North Brisbane bikeway. We're just so close to getting it done. We just want to see it finished.

00:16:45:03 - 00:16:49:08
John Simmerman
SHOWBIZ I love your sense of humor.

00:16:51:05 - 00:17:08:21
Chris Cox
I'm looking at speaking more. I'm writing at the same time. So I thought I'd sit down after the interview finished and I said, No, this woman just standing around behind. And when we're done, she came up to the journalist and said, Do you want to hear from someone really in the community? And then she the red flags went off.

00:17:09:08 - 00:17:33:10
Chris Cox
And I own a pushbike myself. We all know where this is going. I you know, I'm something of a cyclist. As far as an anti cycling rant goes, it was probably a 11 out of ten. You know, she started off pointing a finger at me saying there, rude. They're inconsiderate, they're aggressive. If they were black people, they'd be locked up as a criminal gang boy.

00:17:34:07 - 00:17:46:01
Chris Cox
That escalated quickly. So I think she kind of told on herself a bit there. But it just, you know, at the time you just think it's funny. You just laugh, you know, crazy lady. But the problem is.

00:17:46:08 - 00:18:08:21
John Simmerman
I'm going to go ahead and pause it here just to kind of get a reflection. So you put this out there and did you did you think, oh, this thing's going to go like I mean, I hit it out of the park on this one. This is this is a really good one. Are you really surprised by the fact that this traveled around the globe?

00:18:09:27 - 00:18:32:17
Chris Cox
I was surprised. I mean, I never know what's going to to appeal to people. Some of the stuff that I think is really good doesn't go anywhere. But yeah, I think this probably just hit a nerve with people because I think from a psychos perspective, you know, we've all heard it. We've all heard this same stuff where everywhere around the world, you know, anywhere that's not got cycling as part of its inherent transport culture, you know, all the same kind of stereotypes and things.

00:18:33:11 - 00:18:56:10
Chris Cox
But likewise, I think it hit a nerve with people who do have those stereotypes. They kind of like, Yeah, but, but I'm right. So they sort of, they want to look in there. They wanted to prove me wrong, you know. Well, people have issue because of this. And and so you just proving my point. You you've got all these examples you're saying I'm not denying people have probably seen and experienced and negative things with cyclists.

00:18:56:26 - 00:19:07:28
Chris Cox
Yeah. You know it's people just and they equate that to everyone and it's that outworking mentality that I think is so prevalent for some reason, particularly around cycling.

00:19:08:07 - 00:19:39:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. So in 2019, a study, you know, out of out of Australia, you know, came up that basically, you know, came up and said, yeah, we, you know, the way too many drivers see cyclists as literal cockroaches. So this came out in in spring of 2019, I believe, or maybe it was late 2018, but it really hit the presses in in the spring of 2019.

00:19:40:12 - 00:20:12:24
John Simmerman
This particular one is this particular article as they picked up on the research. This is Bicycling magazine. But if you just Google, you'll see that it got picked up by a lot of different outlets and what was really, really fascinating about this from a behavior modification perspective and my background of of encouraging health behavior is perceptions and and the way that that, you know, we're perceived as humans out there in in space, in the in the environment.

00:20:13:00 - 00:20:33:18
John Simmerman
And I mentioned it earlier, one of the things that one of the reasons why I, you know, choose to ride my bike the way that I do is because I know the eyes are looking at me. I knew I know that, you know, people are perceiving my activity and they're seeing somebody, oh, he's dressed nicely, he's picking up groceries.

00:20:33:18 - 00:20:59:28
John Simmerman
He's doing all this other kind of stuff, you know. Wow, that's that's cool. And he's smiling and he's waving and he's playing, you know, maybe, maybe I've got my music going a little bit, you know, and, you know, I'm interacting with kids and parents and people who are also out on the street. That makes a difference because that that's, you know, it creates that's what I call humanizing the the street space.

00:20:59:28 - 00:21:36:25
John Simmerman
And he's humanizing the experience. And what they started noticing here was the dehumanization of people, of people who are, quote unquote, cyclists, people who are riding specifically in in Australia. And and it was interesting too because when they did the this the the research, they used this sort of famous march of progress chart that, you know, they kind of adapted that chart, that was, you know, like the man, the evolution of man from chimpanzees on up to human form.

00:21:37:01 - 00:21:59:16
John Simmerman
And they sort of modified that and they used a version of it where, you know, there's something like this where, you know, at the bottom end of the scale, the zero end of the scale is like an insect, like a cockroach. And then in between, you know, it was like this one kind of looks, the one in the middle sort of looks like a praying mantis.

00:21:59:29 - 00:22:26:00
John Simmerman
And and then you're then you get to the human form. But it was interesting in the sense that that 31% of respondents rated cyclists as less than human. And I guess if you flip it around, you know, it's it's like, well, okay, that's only 31%. But on the other side, it's horrifying. It's 31%.

00:22:26:21 - 00:22:26:28
Chris Cox
Yeah.

00:22:27:15 - 00:23:15:08
John Simmerman
That's the majority of people still see us as humans, you know. But at the same time, too, to think that a fairly significant percentage of of people are, are like going, yeah, that, you know, and when this study came out, I actually was was thinking about it too. And I was I started to emphasize one of the recommendations that I have always had, even when I'm on my sport bike and I'm wearing my helmet and I'm wearing my sunglasses, I always try to make sure that if I'm stopping at a at a corner market or something like that and heading in to get another bottle of water and maybe, you know, maybe a sport drink,

00:23:15:08 - 00:23:43:00
John Simmerman
maybe a sport bar, you know, or something like that. Some nutrition, especially if I'm doing a long ride like I do with my friends when I'm in Colorado, we'll go up for a 100 mile ride. And and so I always try to take the helmet off, the sunglasses off, and, and try to to to make myself look less bug like because I mean, this this study really drove it home for me.

00:23:43:00 - 00:24:14:14
John Simmerman
It's like, yeah, we kind of do look like insects with our exoskeleton helmet on and our glasses and shields and all this. It's like we kind of and especially if we're traveling in a pack, we're like a swarm and it's like, Yeah, yeah, I, I kind of get what they're saying. So all the more reason for me saying, you know, it's like if I, it is a situation where I am wearing a helmet and sunglasses, I'll take them off to try to re humanize the experience.

00:24:14:14 - 00:24:39:09
John Simmerman
If I'm having an interaction, I'll take the sunglasses off. More often than not, I'm just in my normal clothes now, so I again, 90, 95% of the time when I ride, I'm just in my normal clothes. So anyways, thoughts on that? What do you what do you looking at? You're you're in Australia you you I'm sure this hit the airwaves and probably hit home a little bit more so than it did with for us.

00:24:39:25 - 00:25:05:20
Chris Cox
Yeah, for sure. And I think there are a lot of people that were like, yeah, that's right. They are less than human, you know, because talkback radio, you can get some interesting people chime in and social media comments, but I think it it does just reinforce that the the challenge here is to normalize cycling or people cycling as people who are just using a bike to go from A to B, that's not to dehumanize people that go for long rides.

00:25:05:20 - 00:25:27:25
Chris Cox
I mean, we like to do that. But you know that when you've got people that are driving their cars and you've got in the back of your head, that one in three of them don't really see me as human. So they're not necessarily going to take that much care. I mean, that's kind of worrying and it probably doesn't play out in that kind of ratio.

00:25:27:25 - 00:26:00:10
Chris Cox
I think I probably have, you know, maybe one in 20 drivers, I think probably show a bit of callous disregard for my welfare. But yeah, it's an interesting one, but I think it's a sign of also just that we do live in a very car centric culture in Australia, you know, right back from World War Two, like most of the, you know, English speaking countries, it was very much we went down the path of the car of the future and redesigned our cities to to do that, ripped out trams.

00:26:00:10 - 00:26:22:29
Chris Cox
We, you know, and just the cars pointing on the streets that at that time people on bikes were using. And so they were pushed aside. And then, you know, I think in the 1970s, things sort of changed a bit. In Europe. That was where, you know, the oil crisis and the kind of mort in in the Netherlands and that led to the cycling network developed in Australia.

00:26:22:29 - 00:26:47:27
Chris Cox
We sort of I mean I wasn't alive in at the time of the oil crisis, I don't necessarily know how much that affected Australia, but we went the other way and we really urbanized strongly. In Brisbane we had an American transport planner whose name was Wilbur Smith who, you know, consulted with the State Government and he designed motorways around the river and through the city, like literally through the city.

00:26:47:27 - 00:27:07:22
Chris Cox
And, you know, we got rid of the trams. It was just one disaster after another from a planning perspective. But the side effect of that was that cycling to get places just disappeared. And then really, you know, we touched on it, but the final nail in that was the helmet law, because then suddenly you couldn't be just a normal person on a bike anymore.

00:27:07:27 - 00:27:27:17
Chris Cox
You had to wear your exoskeleton that was required by law. But, you know, and so what was left when that happened was that the people that were just, you know, you know, mums riding to, to work and, and kids running to school, all of them stopped and you were left with a really sporting culture. So the people that were riding were riding for sport.

00:27:27:17 - 00:27:44:23
Chris Cox
They were already wearing helmets because, you know, in the seventies and eighties they got developed and it was seen as a a safe thing to do. So then throughout the nineties and the early 2000, that was what a cyclist was. So I think that's really led us to this point. And now we're seeing a change. You know what?

00:27:44:23 - 00:28:14:07
Chris Cox
We're seeing a lot more, especially now with e-bikes really becoming prevalent. You know, when I ride into the city now, I'll say way more women my age in work clothes, just riding to work on an electric bike. And I think, you know, that's that's that's fantastic to see. And I think, you know, we're seeing a lot more cargo bikes, although the environment in Brisbane doesn't lend itself terribly well to cargo bikes with some of the infrastructure we have pedestrian refuges which barely wide enough for a pedestrian to stand on.

00:28:14:07 - 00:28:44:22
Chris Cox
So if you've got a cargo bike and you go to white middle of a road, that's not terribly easy. But you know, the authorities are saying the right things about how, you know, cycling is good, cycling is important, it helps reduce congestion, it's better for public health and that sort of thing. But then also at the same time, they're also trying to continue to this kind of dependance that like will get you home sooner and safer with more with more roads and more lanes and and all this, you know, and we don't want to punish drivers for choosing to drive.

00:28:44:22 - 00:29:06:24
Chris Cox
And it's like, no, we don't want to punish people for driving, but we need to normalize, not driving as a viable and pleasant option. You know, that's what's going to get people to do it. It's like if riding a bike or walking or catching public transport is as pleasant as driving is or inconvenient as driving is, and people will do it at the moment for a lot of people, it's not.

00:29:06:29 - 00:29:20:03
Chris Cox
And so we get stuck with this. Everyone drives and so then everyone is not. Driving is another and I think cyclists sort of our particular approach that that draws some of that that angst.

00:29:20:14 - 00:29:48:17
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go back to our video here and play the end of it because I think you you kind of wrap things up nicely and sort of pose the question. And I don't I obviously all have the link to the full video in the video description in the show notes for for folks who are here are just listening encourage you to to head on over to the the website for the landing page for this episode.

00:29:49:05 - 00:30:01:10
John Simmerman
Take a look at the video description. Take a look at the show notes and and give this listen but or give it a watch. But let's pull this up and over and see how you kind of wrap things up here. Well, to.

00:30:01:10 - 00:30:30:10
Chris Cox
Be cut until the next turn anyway. So very interesting. I don't understand bigotry. Do you have any ideas if you've got any thoughts about why people think the way they do and how we change it, I would really be open to it because I don't get it. You know, if you hate cyclists or you think that we should pay Reg So make sure you subscribe and hit the notification bell so you get notified when I post new video and you can tell me how wrong I am.

00:30:30:10 - 00:31:00:01
Chris Cox
And if you don't think Reg is the answer, make sure you hit subscribe in the notification bill. So you know we're not opposed to video and tell me how bright I am. And seriously, if you really do enjoy cycling related videos and movies, make sure you get along to space for cycling. Brisbanes Bicycle Film Night 2022. It's on Saturday, the 28th of May at the Kangaroo Point Multicultural Center, and my favorite is the Brisbane Black Film Festival.

00:31:00:01 - 00:31:01:24
John Simmerman
Where how did that event go.

00:31:02:16 - 00:31:34:20
Chris Cox
Yeah, it really good. That's the. Oh I think it's the sixth or seventh. I've lost count so we do it. It's our annual fundraising event for our space for cycling campaign and it's really good. So we always have a feature film. We've had Motherlode previously, which was, Oh good, yeah, cargo cult culture. Cargo bike culture. Yeah. And, but we also have a short film festival so people, you know, they make their own films, you know, from, with a general famous cycling around Brisbane or just cycling and some of the people come with some really creative stuff.

00:31:34:20 - 00:31:55:23
Chris Cox
I haven't answered it yet. I feel like a bit of a fraud filmmaker myself, but you know, some of them are, some of them are so good and yeah, it's really fun night and it's a great way for I suppose, especially for a lot of cyclists who just they ride to work by themselves and they sort of feel a bit isolated being in, you know, it sort of gives you that feeling of a bit of a community, like you're not alone.

00:31:55:23 - 00:31:59:02
Chris Cox
There's a lot of us out there and we're all on the on the same path here.

00:31:59:08 - 00:32:32:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I see the same thing about myself. I'm a health promotion professional turned storyteller, and I'm just kind of figuring this out as I go along. So it's, it's all in good fun. And yeah, it's, it's an honor when I'm able to brush shoulders with real, real documentary filmmakers and folks that have been doing this gig for, for many, many years like that, like Mark Park, Vlogging Bird with a bicycle Dutch and obviously clearance exercise and JR with street films.

00:32:33:06 - 00:32:38:16
John Simmerman
Does Australia have a clearance or a mark that no level or you it.

00:32:39:10 - 00:32:57:26
Chris Cox
Well I don't know if I'm it but it's one of the reasons that I sort of last year sort of changed a bit of the direction on my YouTube channel. And so I can actually just make some proper videos that actually touch on issues and things a bit more than just showing some clips of bad driving or whatever because it's something that's really lacking in Australia.

00:32:57:26 - 00:33:21:09
Chris Cox
Like I see, I see not just bikes and or the idea of the urbanity and city nerd and there's all these really great channels out there that do some really excellent content, but it's all very, you know, North American focused or a European focus. There's, there's very little that's touching on Australia and unfortunately that sort of feeds into this Australian exceptionalism which we do have.

00:33:22:04 - 00:33:31:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well I mean everywhere has it. I mean honestly, I mean everybody has that sort of orientation of not created here, therefore we're going to dismiss anything that's being said.

00:33:32:23 - 00:33:58:05
Chris Cox
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like I said, we have you know, I make often with politicians of various levels of government and, you know, you push some ideas to them and they say, ah, yeah, but we're not the Netherlands or we're not London, you know. And it's like, but you know, we're actually probably in a lot of ways better positioned to take advantage of our of our climate and environment to to make that happen.

00:33:59:05 - 00:34:00:18
Chris Cox
We just need a bit of political will.

00:34:00:19 - 00:34:19:18
John Simmerman
But I'm well and I'm glad you said that a little bit of political will. And you also just mentioned that, you know, you've got some pretty good plans and you've got some leadership that are saying some of the right things. But you also have some leadership that are saying some really crazy stuff. So let's let's take a look at this most recent video that you've done.

00:34:20:02 - 00:34:26:06
Chris Cox
Lord Mayor of Brisbane, Adrian Schrinner, clearly expressed what he thought of evidence based globally recognized road safety policies.

00:34:26:28 - 00:34:31:03
Chris Cox
Isn't democracy a great thing? Batshit crazy ideas get voted down.

00:34:31:05 - 00:34:52:08
Chris Cox
So recently Brisbane City Council debated a proposal to establish a default local street speed limit of 30 kilometers per hour. The University of Queensland, home of our best and brightest, already has a 30 kilometers per hour speed limit established its roads, carry thousands of cyclists, pedestrians and motorists every day. Sometimes motorists don't get it right. Like this learner.

00:34:52:24 - 00:34:53:12
John Simmerman
I love this.

00:34:53:13 - 00:34:55:16
Chris Cox
Oh, yeah. Oh, good time.

00:34:55:16 - 00:35:09:25
Chris Cox
To pull out from that parking spot on a normal 50 kilometer per hour street. That four wheel drive approaching at normal speed. What happens next could have been terrible, but it wasn't.

00:35:09:25 - 00:35:15:17
Chris Cox
The Lord Mayor isn't a fan batshit crazy ideas. Hmm.

00:35:16:04 - 00:35:31:09
Chris Cox
So comfortable is the batshit crazy 30 kilometers per hour speed limit that a family was happily riding together. Dad riding with three kids on their own bikes and a fourth in the trailer on their way to swimming lessons. Perfectly safe. Would you be so keen to ride like this on a 50 kilometer per.

00:35:31:09 - 00:35:42:27
Chris Cox
Hour local street batshit crazy ideas. And it goes on and on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

00:35:43:07 - 00:35:51:14
John Simmerman
And that also, by the way, I also that hit my radar screen too when when he said that and it made the rounds on Twitter as well.

00:35:51:14 - 00:36:12:23
Chris Cox
So yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing because like this is this is the nature of partizan politics, unfortunately. And so without delving too much into it, it was proposed by a Green Party councilor. He represents the Liberals who are in Australia. We Liberals are our Republicans. So it's, you know, I don't know why we do that, but that's what it is.

00:36:12:23 - 00:36:35:17
Chris Cox
So he was a conservative and of course he had to shoot it down. But yeah, the debate was pretty, pretty hysterical and that was that little one liner. Or if he's sort of summed up the the level of thought they put into the debate, which was a bit disappointing because we've seen that 30 kilometers an hour and it's being adopted in so many places around the world.

00:36:35:21 - 00:36:37:29
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and it was you.

00:36:37:29 - 00:37:19:25
John Simmerman
Point out, as you point out, I think in another video. Yeah 20 is plenty campaign you know in the UK a little bit here in North America and the United States. But yeah, 30 kilometers per hour. You're talking about, you know, right around 17 miles per hour. It's it's brilliant. It's it's not you know, we don't we don't need to like belabor the point that or maybe we do you know, that it's it's it's a brilliant speed because you get all the benefits of from a safety perspective.

00:37:19:25 - 00:37:44:28
John Simmerman
And but, you know, motorists can still get around you know, they can get to their destinations, especially the contour routes that we're talking about here of the central business districts, where there's going to be lots of conflicts and lots of other people. And then also residential areas where you're more likely to run into and be come into contact with families.

00:37:45:04 - 00:37:47:04
John Simmerman
Kids, imagine that.

00:37:47:25 - 00:38:10:04
Chris Cox
And I it's a it's a horrifying thought, isn't it? So and that was the the idea is that that's actually one of the policies that the space the cycling Brisbane campaign has is one of our six core policies is dedicate our local neighborhoods, streets. And that's why, you know, we have a road hierarchy in Brisbane, I mean right up to arterial roads, so local and neighborhood streets.

00:38:10:04 - 00:38:19:03
Chris Cox
How your local neighborhood streets, they're not the ones that are designed to carry large numbers of vehicles and they're not designed as a fast three route. Right.

00:38:20:03 - 00:38:39:27
John Simmerman
But these are the streets that we were highlighting when we were zooming in on the residential streets that, you know, every single one of those streets should have been a dashed green line, that yeah, it should be 30 kilometers per hour zones, you know, throughout. And, you know, there's decent connectivity there. They should all be considered.

00:38:40:17 - 00:39:03:26
Chris Cox
That's right. And, you know, and for that, from a political perspective, it just makes sense because it's a lot cheaper to just establish that lower speed culture on those local streets than forever having to deal with expensive requests for traffic calming or or separated cycling infrastructure and footpaths and things like that. If you don't need to spend all that money, then that's that's another advantage.

00:39:03:26 - 00:39:05:04
Chris Cox
You know, you can say I'd.

00:39:05:04 - 00:39:34:29
John Simmerman
Like to see, you know, both. I mean, I'd like to see yeah, for sure. I'd like to see that default speed lowered in these in the to fit the context of the environment. And then also where appropriate have the appropriate design changes to the streets so that it's intuitive that, oh, this is a slow area, and if it's not intuitive, then do those lighter, quicker, cheaper interventions to help traffic calm and bring the speeds down.

00:39:35:21 - 00:39:46:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. So I love your sense of humor. So we're going to pull up another video here and we're going to we're going to play the the Union of Social Safe Roads just as our here we go.

00:39:46:28 - 00:40:02:00
Chris Cox
Yes, we might welcome.

00:40:02:00 - 00:40:27:01
Chris Cox
Comrades to another public. Don't don't do the Russian accent. Okay. Welcome, comrades, to another public broadcast of union and socialist safe Roads. You may be concerned that our plot to crush capitalism through making our streets safe for our kids to walk and cycle has been foiled by a plucky Lord Mayor of Brisbane. I'm interested to, understand how supportive are you of 30 kilometer now speed limits in denser inner city.

00:40:27:12 - 00:40:28:09
John Simmerman
Neighborhoods, and.

00:40:28:23 - 00:41:03:22
Chris Cox
What additional evidence or information would you want to see in order to consider supporting the trial of generalized 30 kilometers, speed limits for local and neighborhood streets? Never mind that 40 K's has been incredibly successful in improving the safety of the CBD and the safety record has improved significantly. But when you hear push for 30, what you're hearing read between the lines is they really hate motorists and they want to punish them and they want them out of their cars, which is Greens policy pretty much everywhere in the world.

00:41:04:13 - 00:41:05:15
Chris Cox
And so whether it's safe.

00:41:05:15 - 00:41:29:28
John Simmerman
So I love that he's he's just going to go everywhere around the world. This is what the Greens, we don't have a Greens party here in the United States, but I guess he would, you know, throw the progressive liberals, you know, here in the United States under that same bus, although they're not even calling for, you know, speed limits like that.

00:41:30:03 - 00:41:32:23
John Simmerman
So. Wow.

00:41:33:11 - 00:41:58:17
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah. So no, it's it's it's very interesting. He's he's he's a contradiction, our Lord Mayor, because when when he first got appointed Lord Mayor in 2019, the first thing he did was announced a plan for five grain bridges. So grain bridges are bridges for walking, cycling and public transport. Okay. Yeah, but no cars. So that was his vision.

00:41:58:17 - 00:42:03:04
Chris Cox
He was like, we want to, you know, change our city so that people can get around without their cars and like.

00:42:03:10 - 00:42:13:09
John Simmerman
So let me let me ask you this, though. Those those bridges are for multi-use paths and those for our first separated infrastructure.

00:42:14:01 - 00:42:16:02
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that.

00:42:16:02 - 00:42:45:28
John Simmerman
Makes a lot more sense to me because I don't see that as a, as a, as a disconnect because the sort of the catch is, is that, you know, it's all everybody loves an off street network of paths, whether they're on the conservative spectrum or, you know, the liberal perspective or the socialist perspective. Everybody loves an off street pathway and trail, with exception.

00:42:45:28 - 00:43:04:21
John Simmerman
There's there's obviously an exception to that rule. There's always some people who are just like, not in my backyard because I feel like you're the wrong type of people who are going to gain access to my backyard and then be able to steal my stuff and take my flat screen TV out on their, you know, $7,000 cargo bike.

00:43:04:21 - 00:43:22:22
John Simmerman
E-Cargo bike. Yeah, but yeah. So that's not to too surprising to me that he was supportive of that, but he is incredibly protective of who he believes is his constituency that keeps him in office, the motoring public.

00:43:23:21 - 00:43:48:12
Chris Cox
Yeah, and that was even more obvious with the one we had earlier this year, the, the floods that, you know, really took a big toll. Amazon we had, I think over three days we had just about our annual rainfall, annual and annual rainfall. So average rainfall. So it's pretty big disaster and it, you know, wiped out a lot of bike infrastructure because again, trying to keep things off the road.

00:43:48:12 - 00:44:17:11
Chris Cox
Most of Brisbane's bike network runs along creek beds and or creek banks and riverbanks. So it's places where they can't develop, they can't build roads. So let's just put, you know, shared paths along creeks which then got washed away. And so then to fund that recovery, the first thing that he canceled was an on road cycleway in North Brisbane, which would have completed would have ended up completing a connection from Brisbane City to Redcliffe, which is about a 60 kilometer route.

00:44:17:24 - 00:44:23:09
Chris Cox
So we've, we've now just got this 500 meter gap which they've now canceled plans to, to complete.

00:44:24:06 - 00:44:27:16
John Simmerman
And just because it's an on road connector.

00:44:28:02 - 00:44:37:20
Chris Cox
Yeah. Yeah. So it would have taken, it would have, you know, repurposed some of the road space away from, you know, informal car parking to actually having a cycleway.

00:44:37:26 - 00:44:54:18
John Simmerman
Let me ask you this about your your river here, because you said it was not just the river, but also the creeks and some of the other places. So I'm kind of scanning and I'm seeing that. Yes, some of these other pathways are probably tributaries that are then dumping into this river. Is that about right?

00:44:54:18 - 00:45:13:20
Chris Cox
Yeah, especially if you look a bit further north. You see that one, that sort of jiggling and wiggling along towards the west there. That's the another creek and it's like a creek bikeways which stretch to the gap. So if anyone asks you, you know, how do I get from the gap there, which is on the far left. Yeah.

00:45:14:08 - 00:45:16:14
Chris Cox
Into the city. Well right along that.

00:45:16:26 - 00:45:18:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. Right, right along.

00:45:18:00 - 00:45:47:18
Chris Cox
Circuitous. Yeah, yeah. Don't go on the main roads. You know that's going to hold people up. Right. You know, even though that would be the most direct route and and also it's a sight it's a perceived perceptibly safer route. You know, you know, I know from talking to a lot of women that they're very uncomfortable riding on those Creekside duck bikeways through parks and things at the not well-lit right at night.

00:45:47:25 - 00:46:02:16
John Simmerman
If they're done if they're done well they can be, you know, just incredibly inviting environments because you're getting away from the motor vehicle exhaust and noise and the potential conflicts. But the end, you have to do them well.

00:46:03:02 - 00:46:22:07
Chris Cox
That's right. If if they're not well lit and you feel like you're very, you know, alone and isolated, yeah. You're going to be vulnerable. So. Yeah. So, yeah, it's what I sort of call fair weather infrastructure. It's really good when the weather's good and you know, it's light. But then as we saw with the flood, the rainfall, like all those creeks flooded really badly.

00:46:22:07 - 00:46:23:26
Chris Cox
And so then all the is pulling out.

00:46:23:26 - 00:46:44:02
John Simmerman
Here because I want to get a little bit of the topography going because one of the very first things that I saw when I was doing research on on Brisbane was, was that it was identified as being essentially in a floodplain and it was basically the description was it's a river with a city problem.

00:46:44:16 - 00:47:09:06
Chris Cox
Yeah, yeah. That's a, it's a a book that's been written looking into the history of our river. And it has, you know, the, the earliest early will colonizers will call them in Brisbane that you know they set up now established Brisbane and the Indigenous people at the time said you shouldn't build that. Yeah, it's a in a flood and they're like yeah I.

00:47:09:08 - 00:47:13:11
John Simmerman
Know you've got now you have 2.7 million people in, in that basin.

00:47:14:06 - 00:47:39:17
Chris Cox
Yeah. And you know, and you know 2011 it flooded then and now again 2022 and it's going to happen more frequently as we know as as climate change continues. So there's now very expensive programs to try and buy back some of that land that's been built on where it floods consistently. And then convert that to green space. But, you know, it's a very expensive and slow process.

00:47:39:17 - 00:48:01:14
Chris Cox
And, you know, we've already got predictions of another La Nina. Well, there is another La Nina happening, and that usually coincides with heavy rainfall. So. Right. You know, we've got we've got a city that's already feeling flood anxiety right now. We're going into a summer and we're just there's a real sense of anxiety among people. So, yeah, you know, hopefully it won't happen.

00:48:01:14 - 00:48:06:20
Chris Cox
But, you know, we're we're getting a bit weary of all these these flood disasters.

00:48:07:03 - 00:48:11:26
John Simmerman
And you guys are sort of in a subtropical sort of environment there, correct?

00:48:12:19 - 00:48:39:02
Chris Cox
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So, you know, we occasionally get tropical cyclones come down this way as well. That's that's often or has traditionally been a a cause of flooding. And the 1974 floods was caused by a low grade tropical cyclone that crossed the coast and dumped a lot of rain very quickly. That was before we had our Wivenhoe Dam, which again didn't save us in 2011.

00:48:39:03 - 00:49:00:21
Chris Cox
So. So yeah, we're in an area where you've got you know, like there's the mountains and mountainous areas to the west. And then, as you know, Brisbane itself is on a floodplain that opens out into Mountain Bay. We're in a subtropical, you know, in the southern end of the Coral Sea. So we do occasionally get tropical storms and we also get extra, extra tropical storms.

00:49:00:21 - 00:49:11:17
Chris Cox
Quite often we call them East Coast lows. So, you know, and then when we're not having huge flooding events, we get really gnarly thunderstorms as well. So they roll in from from because one of the.

00:49:11:23 - 00:49:34:14
John Simmerman
One of the things that, you know, around the globe, we hear about the disastrous wildfires and the droughts that the rest of the country, you know, really gets impacted by and is suffers from. And yeah. So it's it all depends on where you're at. It's a very big country.

00:49:35:10 - 00:50:02:23
Chris Cox
That's right. And then the you know, what shows up when we have these disasters is just how fragile you. Yeah. Transport systems are. You know, during during the floods, obviously bikeways all went underwater and were were damaged. So cycling then was pushed back onto roads and that was a pretty scary experience on a lot of those roads because again, driving drivers quite happy with cyclists being off the road and out of sight, out of mind.

00:50:02:23 - 00:50:21:14
Chris Cox
Now suddenly we were we're on they're sharing the roads of height that term. But we're we're using the roads as we're able to do because they're there for all people to use. Yeah, but yeah, they weren't going to give you any more space. It was sort of like, well, no, we're going to, we're going to run not running down, but we're we're not going to treat you any any more kindly.

00:50:21:20 - 00:50:21:27
Chris Cox
Yeah.

00:50:22:18 - 00:50:32:27
John Simmerman
Although we had a little bit of a development in that arena. So yeah. So what's, what's the setup to what we're going to see here.

00:50:33:28 - 00:50:56:20
Chris Cox
Yeah. So this is a picture of what used to be Drift Restaurant. So it was a floating well, we sort of built in the River Restaurant alongside the Bicentennial Bikeway in 2011. A big chunk of it broke free and floated away. And the rest of the the restaurant was destroyed. And unfortunately for the for the owners of it, they couldn't resurrect it.

00:50:56:20 - 00:51:08:13
Chris Cox
So just sat there derelict next to the river for the next decade. And then the flood this year moved the rest of it and it ended up on top of the black way, as you can see there. So so that's massive.

00:51:08:13 - 00:51:43:08
John Simmerman
So this is the bikeway being blocked by this derelict restaurant that, you know, basically was just a barge kind of sitting out in the water and the floods did it. So let's let's press play on this and we'll see what happened. Because encouragingly, there was a little bit of a solution to the the blocked bike path.

00:51:43:08 - 00:51:46:15
Chris Cox
There is part in part.

00:51:46:15 - 00:51:56:16
Chris Cox
One of the bicentennial bikeway saga. I covered the Drift Restaurant disaster and the campaign to use the lane of Coronation Drive as a temporary detour.

00:51:56:16 - 00:52:12:16
Chris Cox
We will be closing a general traffic lane along Coronation Drive. So closing that to to vehicle traffic in order to create a protected off road bi directional bicycle lane so that we can replace what was lost.

00:52:13:18 - 00:52:22:01
Chris Cox
To Brisbane City Council, follow through and create that temporary two way cycleway and how that worked. Did it cause traffic chaos like some.

00:52:22:01 - 00:52:43:10
Chris Cox
Media were predicting? Well, I had had a long a few times this week to check it out. Let's have a look. So it's a bit of a wet day today, but it's the opening of the protected bike lane on coronation drive on the drift restaurants being removed. So despite the rain, I've seen quite a few cyclists going through here.

00:52:43:29 - 00:52:55:16
Chris Cox
You can see that there's still five lanes of vehicle traffic and it's moving just as well as it normally does at this time of day. It's about 8:00 in the morning, so I think council's got a.

00:52:55:16 - 00:53:04:22
Chris Cox
Really good job.

00:53:04:22 - 00:53:39:14
Chris Cox
So as you come up off line parade number across the existing narrow or shared path and then just where the bus stop used to be as a ramp, head down onto the bikeway and you've got a nice uninterrupted run through to Graham Street Bike Lane. People are still working it out. I love it.

00:53:39:14 - 00:53:42:09
John Simmerman
And now you get the view here.

00:53:43:11 - 00:53:46:24
Chris Cox
Oh, look, we'll get it. We are.

00:53:48:08 - 00:53:48:17
Chris Cox
Here.

00:53:53:09 - 00:53:53:28
Chris Cox
I love it.

00:53:54:10 - 00:54:20:06
John Simmerman
It's so that was encouragement. Now was that quite the fight to get that in there? I mean, was that kind of the the the back story? Because obviously you were forced into the lane and you're, you know, people who are riding bikes were forced to deal with trying to control a lane. And and of course, I mean, that was that's six lanes of traffic.

00:54:21:04 - 00:54:39:28
Chris Cox
Yeah. And it's a 60 kilometers an hour road as well. And we know busses, trucks, a major route. And, you know, so so I did have to push really hard because I was like I was really concerned that, you know, there'd be two outcomes. One would be that people would just not ride until it was repaired. And I didn't didn't know how long that was going to be.

00:54:40:13 - 00:54:46:26
Chris Cox
And two was more and more bigger concern was that people are going to get hurt, you know, because they're either are they going to ride on the road and.

00:54:46:27 - 00:54:50:15
John Simmerman
Know you said you were pushing. Is that you and your your organization?

00:54:50:15 - 00:55:09:10
Chris Cox
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Myself. Westberg Public cycling we really ramped up some pressure on it. Got got it got it was that you know a few days after the floods subsided and we'd seen the damage that I wrote to them said, hey, can we look at doing a temporary bike lane between Lane right. And Graham Street or ideally all the way?

00:55:09:19 - 00:55:31:05
Chris Cox
Yeah, towards Cribb Street was a bit further along and I, you know, drew lines on a map and you know this how could work close this turning lane or whatever. But the original response was just no. I went on local radio to try and plead the case a bit, but I got again but told no. But eventually there was a change of heart and I think, I don't know, I just kept pushing.

00:55:31:12 - 00:55:32:09
Chris Cox
I was like almost.

00:55:32:09 - 00:55:34:18
John Simmerman
Two weeks of this. Did it take.

00:55:36:02 - 00:55:38:21
Chris Cox
I think for members? About three weeks. I think back and forward.

00:55:39:21 - 00:55:41:11
John Simmerman
With this case not going away.

00:55:42:01 - 00:56:04:13
Chris Cox
Now and there is another community group called Ten Style Community Bike Shed. They sort of they're not a free cooperatives that, you know, people can just bring their bikes and when they come work, work on bikes, get taught how to fix and that kind of thing. But they sort of took on the cause and they had like one of their on their, their bike where they had people come over.

00:56:04:13 - 00:56:25:21
Chris Cox
They actually drew draw up signs, you know, you know, to to tell motorist, you know, this cycle I say look out for cyclists because there's no bike way, you know, because it was a bit of a, you know, again, the bikeway is right there, but it's down below road level. So I think right unless the older people probably don't even know it's there and they would possibly not know that it was blocked.

00:56:26:03 - 00:56:32:19
Chris Cox
And so then suddenly you got cyclists on the road and then there was this people that weren't, I suppose, caring, you.

00:56:32:19 - 00:56:32:24
John Simmerman
Know.

00:56:33:22 - 00:56:47:09
Chris Cox
So anyway, it was a good outcome to the council, you know, chemical and said there was a council member who gave me a call and said, Oh, look, we are going to put that bike lane. I want to let you know. Wow, wow, fantastic. So so that's going to.

00:56:47:19 - 00:56:59:12
John Simmerman
Catch you by surprise. It wasn't like, you know, you were able to, like, feel like you had a champion in there and you had some hope. And it just kind of, like, surprised the heck out of you.

00:57:00:03 - 00:57:15:14
Chris Cox
Yeah, pretty. Pretty much. I mean, I know a few people that work in there and they were sort of like, you know, keep pushing, keep pushing because they were trying to push internally as well. You know, obviously, you need someone who has the political clout to to make that call. I think that's.

00:57:15:14 - 00:57:40:12
John Simmerman
A really good point that you just made there, too, is that often times, you know, these councilors and city council members and even in the mayor, oftentimes that they have other people who are within their organizations who are like they see it, they get it, and they're, they're like working it from the inside and and it's like, yeah, seriously, keep, keep your pressure, keep it going.

00:57:40:26 - 00:58:06:28
John Simmerman
We're working we're quietly working it from this angle, too. So I think it's it's easy for us to just get frustrated and say, damn, politicians did it it. But oftentimes, you know, having relationships with some of their advisers and some of their staff that are, you know, working things like, you know, policy aside and and other, you know, it, I think is incredibly important.

00:58:08:01 - 00:58:43:06
Chris Cox
Absolutely. And another example of that was actually, you know, space recycling has been pushing for a CBD grid of protected bike lanes. So throughout through our city center and we've been pushing for that since we sort of started our campaign in 2015. In fact, at the time we had the largest ever online petition with Brisbane City Council. We had something like two and a half thousand signatures asking for it and we were told no, but we kept getting the message from within, you know, people that within councils keep pushing, you know, and and within department transit keep pushing.

00:58:43:18 - 00:58:57:27
Chris Cox
And then during COVID they announced, you know, like a lot of cities around the world did, putting up pop up bike lanes that they would put a temporary or a how do they describe it, basically a permanent temporary short.

00:58:58:11 - 00:58:59:10
John Simmerman
Term sort of thing?

00:58:59:11 - 00:59:17:11
Chris Cox
Yeah, an interim solution. Yeah, basically. So on Elizabeth Street and Edward Street in the city. So and that's been fantastic. So that was a you know, that was an example, I think where, you know, we were pushing a lot from the outside. It's been pushing from inside and eventually all over the docks lined up on it. And it, you know, it was the right time and happened.

00:59:17:11 - 00:59:37:12
Chris Cox
So, yes, now we just want to see it expand. Obviously, it's it's just two streets in the city at the moment. But gym is very small, part of the inner city. But yeah, it's it's sort of why I do what I do and why I keep putting up with Krissy. Do you do it does seem like it is going nowhere for a long time.

00:59:37:29 - 00:59:59:23
John Simmerman
Well, it's really it's really great to when you're able to get some other organizations that, you know, will also chime in and say, no, no, seriously, this this is actually something that we need to be doing. Like, for instance, with the speeds, you know, if we can if we can bring those speed limits down this is going to be safer for everybody.

00:59:59:23 - 01:00:26:14
John Simmerman
It's going to be safer for people walking. It's going to be safer for people biking. It's going to be safer for people driving. And so I like to emphasize with folks that the bigger we can make our tent, you know, get as many organizations, public health groups, disability groups, more people, the better. Because then it doesn't feel like it's just the cyclists, the silo of a specialist group.

01:00:26:14 - 01:00:43:27
John Simmerman
It's like, no, this is good for everybody, including the business district, by the way. This is you know, this will mean more money for businesses if you have streets that are suddenly, you know, like actually people oriented people want to be there. So yes.

01:00:44:11 - 01:01:09:05
Chris Cox
100%. But yeah, it's, it's funny you still have the arguments against, you know on road bike lanes to say oh well if you take away parking you're going to hurt businesses. But you know, all the evidence is that the opposite is true. But for a lot of people until they experience it, that I believe it. And it's but it's that and that notion that valuable messaging is what works.

01:01:09:05 - 01:01:12:20
Chris Cox
You know, people aren't going to listen to facts and figures and. No, no.

01:01:12:26 - 01:01:36:11
John Simmerman
It's going to be a story. It's going to be storytelling and it's going to be a beat for them to be able to actually see it themselves. And that's where the these interim solutions and these pop up and tactical urbanism becomes so powerful because then it's like, Oh, wow, I can totally see how this could mean more business for my business.

01:01:36:21 - 01:02:02:08
John Simmerman
And, and this is a good thing. And that's the other reason why I really emphasize that, that fact of being a conspicuous consumer and, and let these business owners and restaurateurs know that, yeah, I rode my bike here. I'm not dressed up like I rode my bike here and I'm not carrying my helmet but I yeah. I really appreciate that bike rack out front.

01:02:03:03 - 01:02:28:13
John Simmerman
Thanks. Yeah. Know that was huge and and because that reinforces a little bit of that bikes do mean business and people walking to businesses mean business and it's it's not the it's it's not that assumption that they have that all 110% of my people who walked through the door got there by car, you know?

01:02:28:22 - 01:02:29:28
Chris Cox
Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:29:28 - 01:02:41:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's really good. Chris, we're running out of time here. What's the final little nugget of wisdom from the other side of the world? Would you like to leave the audience with.

01:02:42:09 - 01:03:10:25
Chris Cox
Oh, now you've throwing me in it, huh? All right. I think, you know, everyone likes to think Australia is unique. You know, we have a we are, you know, where this island continent, you know, part of the planet, you know, it feels like it's sort of it might as well be in another. Now the galaxy. But we know what we you know, our cities are really just cities then we're no different to anyone else.

01:03:12:07 - 01:03:37:18
Chris Cox
You know, there was a, an awesome name Donald Horne, who you know, we've got this I'm sorry. There's a there's a phrase associated with Australia called the Lucky Country. And it's sort of used it's it's used kind of wrongly as a term of endearment. So the it was coined by a man named Donald Horne. And the full quote is actually that Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck.

01:03:38:01 - 01:04:09:05
Chris Cox
It lives on other people's ideas and although it's ordinary, people are adaptable, most of its leaders. So let curiosity about the events that surrounded that they are often taken by surprise. So that really resonates with the struggle that we sort of have with our cities, is that, you know, these ideas aren't new. You know, they're not terribly groundbreaking, you know, asking for, you know, groundbreaking changes in our community fabric and stuff that's been done and has been proven.

01:04:09:09 - 01:04:33:29
Chris Cox
Yeah, we just need some of those politicians that are leading us to be a bit less second rate. But I think the only way to get that is that if people are asking for it and I think one of the side effects of our mum, you know, she'll be right. And that kind of attitude in Australia is that we just accept what it is and we don't as a, as a community we don't generally ask for better.

01:04:34:09 - 01:05:13:26
Chris Cox
Yeah. So sorry I'm rambling but I think, I guess that's my message is that, you know, there's advocates that are out there that are, that are pushing, you know, it's the people that just ride their bikes to go to the shops doing little bits and pieces or who want to say currency to speak up, they need to, you know, even if it's just telling their friends, but they need to be when they are to be shown that it's not just us advocates and advocate advocates and activists that are always in the in the media, in the spotlight, you know, the you know, we can get polarized as these little outliers, but, you know, and I

01:05:13:26 - 01:05:15:29
Chris Cox
don't know if that's really summed up anything very well at all.

01:05:16:22 - 01:05:28:09
John Simmerman
And what's really interesting to me, too, is that, you know, the last time I checked, I don't think Australia is a great oil producing company or country continent.

01:05:29:10 - 01:05:50:28
Chris Cox
No. But we produce a lot of little natural gas. That's our big thing. But okay. But you're right. You know what? We don't produce a lot of our own oil, so we are very oil dependent. So our transport system is very much dependent on importing oil and and petrol. You know, there's a big push for electric vehicles as there is in a lot of parts of the world.

01:05:50:28 - 01:06:10:08
Chris Cox
But, you know, as cities don't have necessarily a fuel problem, we have a geometry problem. You know, you can only cram so many cars in. Yeah. And at the moment we've got 85% of all trips in Brisbane are taken by car. If our population keeps growing the way it is, then there's nothing you can do that's going to make that work.

01:06:10:08 - 01:06:17:02
Chris Cox
So you know, we have to be pushing to drive less and make it so that people can drive less.

01:06:17:11 - 01:06:58:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, and, and as we emphasized earlier, we have a climate issue as 100%. I mean, and that's and, you know, certainly the extremes that you all are feeling down there are quite devastating. So I think that that's one of the overarching themes that has really sort of come to a head over the last couple of years. Anyways, during my conversations is that we need to be moving forward with a sense of urgency and if the politicians are not following up their rhetoric with action, they need to be voted out.

01:06:59:12 - 01:07:20:09
John Simmerman
And and that's exactly what the Lord mayor said. Well, it's a democracy. You can vote me out and so that would be my closing message, you know, of this episode, is that once again, you know, get engaged at the block level, at the neighborhood level, at the community level, and make sure that you are going out there voting.

01:07:21:07 - 01:07:47:27
John Simmerman
And if good people aren't running, run for office. And you did so and you're you're my second guest on the podcast who ran for office didn't win but is is dedicated and is going at it trying to do the right thing and it's been such an honor and such a pleasure chatting with you here. Chris, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

01:07:48:28 - 01:07:50:08
Chris Cox
And thanks very much, John. It's been great.

01:07:50:19 - 01:08:10:29
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Chris Cox and if you did, please give it a thumbs up or leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't already done so, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just hit that subscription button down below and ring the notifications built right next to it so that you can customize your notification preferences.

01:08:11:09 - 01:08:36:10
John Simmerman
I'll be back next week with another episode. So until then, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. Also sending out a very big thank you all my amazing active towns ambassadors who are directly supporting my efforts through Patreon Buy Me a coffee the YouTube super chats and super thanks as well as buying things from the active town store and making donations to the nonprofit.

01:08:36:17 - 01:08:53:19
John Simmerman
Every little bit helps and is greatly appreciated. Thank you all so very much.