Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:27:03
Patty Wiens
We don't want our young people to leave. So let's provide housing. Let's cut the parking minimums. Let's, put in, an LRT, let's put in bike lanes with priority winter clearing so that people can use them year round. Let's respect that. Right. So, if you don't follow Michael Chen's, on Instagram, I suggest you do. He's one of the city councils in Edmonton.

00:00:27:04 - 00:00:49:16
Patty Wiens
Is shocking every time. But I just wasn't like your city councilor. You're just so bold and you know, and willing to put his neck on the line, and. And he's getting reelected and he's getting he. People love him. And and it goes to show this. And you gotta stand up. You can't just compromise all the time. Because if you compromise all the time, you're going to end up compromised.

00:00:49:18 - 00:01:13:06
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Patty Wiens, the bicycle mayor up in Winnipeg, Manitoba. We're going to be talking a little bit about her journey to becoming the bicycle mayor of Winnipeg. And, talking a little bit about winter cycling and some of the other interesting activities they are up to up there as they're trying to become more a more of a bike friendly environment.

00:01:13:08 - 00:01:19:26
John Simmerman
So let's get right to it with Patty.

00:01:19:28 - 00:01:23:21
John Simmerman
Patty, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:23:23 - 00:01:25:29
Patty Wiens
Thanks for having me. This is exciting.

00:01:26:02 - 00:01:39:03
John Simmerman
It is exciting. I always love, connecting with my friends, from the great White north, but it's not very white up in, in, Winnipeg right now. What the heck is going on?

00:01:39:05 - 00:02:01:05
Patty Wiens
Well, it's called I don't know if you guys heard of this, but climate change, this is terrifying. It's exciting because I'm Brazilian, right? And I moved here 30 some years ago, but it's also a little frightening that it can be like this right now. At this time of year. It's still in the pluses, you know, and it's.

00:02:01:06 - 00:02:02:22
Patty Wiens
Yeah. Normal.

00:02:02:24 - 00:02:13:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's not normal. Well, Patty, as you probably know, I love giving my guests, an opportunity to quickly introduce themselves. So, who the heck is Patty?

00:02:13:05 - 00:02:42:26
Patty Wiens
Right. So I am the first bicycle mayor of Winnipeg, and, I am a Brazilian living in the great White North. I've been here for 34 years, and I only began riding my bike in winter two years ago. So I'm a fairly new, winter cyclist, but I. I identify strongly with winter cycling because winter cycling really changed my life.

00:02:42:28 - 00:03:08:16
Patty Wiens
It was the catalyst to all things bike advocacy, in the same way that our friend Tom talks about how, you know, putting his kids on a stroller and taking them to school, we made him become an advocate for safe streets, is how I identify myself, thinking of winter cycling as the catalyst for all things bike advocacy. And that's me.

00:03:08:19 - 00:03:36:22
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, and just to be sure, when we talk winter cycling, we're talking about cycling in snow, which is I again, I'm I'm impressed, given the fact that. Yes, you're originally from Brazil. But, yeah, you've been up there for 30 years and within, like you said, within the last few years, you got you got into this, you got into riding all year round, including if it's if it's cold and snowy.

00:03:36:25 - 00:03:41:04
Patty Wiens
Well, that first picture, actually, John is on the river.

00:03:41:06 - 00:03:45:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic. That's great. It's it's frozen over.

00:03:45:11 - 00:04:07:29
Patty Wiens
Yeah. It is, you know, it'll be it'll be again because I wanted to, get to work without having to pay for parking. That's how I started. You know, I didn't want to pay for parking in downtown Winnipeg. So then I said, you know what? I am going to try this thing. And I started doing research on how to ride my bike in winter.

00:04:07:29 - 00:04:21:19
Patty Wiens
And there was no women in the space on YouTube. Nothing. There was there was just, you know, guys in Lycra in the UK talking about, winter cycling. And then this guy right here popped up Tom Babin. Yeah.

00:04:21:22 - 00:04:23:04
John Simmerman
Right in the middle there. Yeah.

00:04:23:06 - 00:04:40:09
Patty Wiens
Ryan Miller there. He popped up on my feed and, I thought, oh, well, he's not, you know, a 50 year old woman, living in the prairies, but, close enough he'll have to do. And so I started watching a lot of his videos, and I told my partner, you know, I think, I think I can do this.

00:04:40:09 - 00:05:03:06
Patty Wiens
I think I'm gonna try it. And he said, why not just do one day at a time for one layer on at a time? And, it's crazy. It's crazy what happened the first day that I tried it and I went to work? I got there and I felt like I had superpowers, you know, I was walking around my office going, I.

00:05:03:07 - 00:05:29:16
Patty Wiens
I'm invincible. There's nothing I can't do. And I knew that something had happened to me that I. I couldn't go back. And so you know, and, and I often talk about this, that just like what Tom Batten said in his book Frost Bike, he talks about how there's like a special power that you get inside is something that you save inside when you become a winter cyclist.

00:05:29:18 - 00:05:35:29
Patty Wiens
The same thing happened to me, and, I knew that my life was never going to be the same.

00:05:36:01 - 00:05:53:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Now, you've mentioned, Tom Tom Babin, of course, is a fellow, YouTube content creator. And, why don't you go ahead and introduce Tom a little bit? And how did you end up, connecting with him and meeting in person?

00:05:53:07 - 00:06:13:01
Patty Wiens
This is a great story, actually. So I studied Tom. I really became obsessed with all his videos because he was really the Canadian guy talking about winter cycling, right? And to me, that was the closest thing that I could imagine. He's he's in Calgary. I'm in Winnipeg. Close enough. You know, we kind of get the same weather.

00:06:13:03 - 00:06:32:09
Patty Wiens
So I became obsessed with all his videos and I learned everything. And then I said to my partner, you know, there's no women in this space. I think I need to create a YouTube channel. And he's like, let's do this. Right. And so I became a mini celebrity here in Winnipeg. You know, it's a small town. I mean, it's a small city.

00:06:32:09 - 00:06:58:11
Patty Wiens
And I became sort of the bike person, even though I had just started. But I was vocal and I was willing to be on camera. So then that's what I became. Exactly. So, fast forward a few months and, I, I, decided that for my 50th birthday, I was going to do a challenge. I was going to ride my bike for 50km and raise money for our local food bank.

00:06:58:13 - 00:07:23:16
Patty Wiens
So me and my partner and a friend, did this ride, and we ended up at the forks, which is, you know, a sort of a central touristy spot here in Winnipeg to celebrate my birthday. And we had lots of friends join us. And at the end of the night, as we're leaving and unlocking our bikes, you know, this is March 10th, two years ago or a year and a half ago.

00:07:23:16 - 00:07:42:05
Patty Wiens
We're we're unlocking our bikes. And this guy walks by and he says, what do you what did you do, ride your bike to go skating? And I'm turning around and I'm gonna give him a piece of my mind, and it's Tom Babbitt. What what are you doing here?

00:07:42:05 - 00:07:44:26
John Simmerman
And so you recognized him right away.

00:07:44:28 - 00:08:09:01
Patty Wiens
Right away. Because I was obsessed with his videos, and I said, you know, you have to understand. You're the reason I'm here. You're the reason that I felt empowered enough to do this. And. And so, actually, Tom and I became friends from then on. And I reached out to him when we were doing our winter cycling 101 live stream on my channel there.

00:08:09:04 - 00:08:31:05
Patty Wiens
And, you know, I'm just so grateful. He's so generous with his time. And we connected during the that's the one right there. We connected during the Winter Cycling Congress in Edmonton, and he's been really generous with advice. He's had me on his channel to to talk about. So there you go. Yeah, it was the crew right there.

00:08:31:08 - 00:08:31:16
Patty Wiens
It was.

00:08:31:18 - 00:08:37:21
John Simmerman
And and we also had Pekka. Pekka to Kola from Ola, Finland was also part of this.

00:08:37:23 - 00:08:57:22
Patty Wiens
Yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. Wild Pekka took us on a wild goose chase in Edmonton when we were together. And he just. He had this map that he wanted to fill as many routes as possible. So we went around and we didn't even know where we were half the time. But, yeah.

00:08:57:24 - 00:09:20:14
John Simmerman
So Pekka loves doing, by the way. Pekka loves doing that. That's when I interviewed Pekka. He wanted to do the interview on bike as he was riding around Ola. It was not in the wintertime, though. It was in the summertime. And I'm like, sure, let's do it. Let's let's record a podcast episode, with you on the bike and me in the studio.

00:09:20:14 - 00:09:40:01
John Simmerman
And I loved it. It was probably one of my favorite all time, videos and, interviews because, you know, he's he's in his element. You know, Pekka just loves being on his bike. If I, he was like, is there any way I can do this? I'm like, it's up to you. Do you have the technology? And he does.

00:09:40:01 - 00:09:42:21
John Simmerman
Clearly. So that's.

00:09:42:21 - 00:10:15:19
Patty Wiens
Great. Yeah, he's he's a lot of fun. And he's been another connection that that we've made that has been so just you know I think that that's the thing that I really can't stress enough is what happens when you get on the bike and you start talking to other bike people. Right. When I became a winter cyclist, there is obviously a big, you know, sort of barrier, I think mentally as a woman, how how can I do this, especially as a Brazilian woman already as women on bikes, we feel unsafe.

00:10:15:19 - 00:10:45:17
Patty Wiens
Add the element of ice and snow and long commutes and all that. Right. So one of the things that I did is I joined a local discord that happened that had was starting in our our city here by my friend Andrew, who ended up being the one who came on my birthday ride. He started this discord and lots of people were joining and the winter cycling channel on there became super active because people just love talking about bikes, right?

00:10:45:17 - 00:10:55:09
Patty Wiens
And they love talking about riding bikes in winter. I think that's that's it goes bike and then bike in winter. Those are the two things that baby bike people like to talk about.

00:10:55:11 - 00:11:17:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, just if we pause just a moment here and to end reflect on this, where we're at right now on your channel, is that. Yeah. You've got one video that's, that's popped and it's well over a thousand. 10,000 views. You're at 11,000 views on, on on a video. That's the first 30 days of biking.

00:11:17:29 - 00:11:40:00
John Simmerman
What I learned, and this is the great thing about YouTube, we were just talking about this an hour ago here at the house about the power of YouTube is stuff like this where people can actually learn something. They can actually they turn to YouTube to to try to learn something new. So it's not surprising to me that that's your top video.

00:11:40:01 - 00:11:47:08
John Simmerman
You know, people want to want to know, want to hear from you of what you learned in your first 30 days of biking.

00:11:47:10 - 00:12:11:29
Patty Wiens
It's funny because that video really didn't take off at first at all. It wasn't, a lot of views. The second one on there really popped off right away, but that first one didn't really take off. Again, that's the power of YouTube, right? It sits there and then people will find it and then they will start commenting and it will sort of be fed to other people as well.

00:12:11:29 - 00:12:44:08
Patty Wiens
So yeah, I mean, my channel is not monetized. I, you know, I do it mostly for just passion. You know, I have a passion to to share my ideas with people. And, part of my trajectory in bike advocacy is to get more women riding bikes. Right? And when I discovered the e-bike, that to me was a game changer because I didn't have to fight the wind, I had to fight the cold.

00:12:44:08 - 00:13:09:17
Patty Wiens
But it didn't. You know, the wind was no longer a factor, right? The the ride that was taking me an hour and a half because of the winds in winter got shortened to 45 minutes. Right. So I really wanted to share that, especially with other women, to show that, you know, there is a way around this. You don't you don't have to be some kind of a sport hero.

00:13:09:17 - 00:13:12:26
Patty Wiens
Get an e-bike and and get around. Right?

00:13:12:26 - 00:13:36:19
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. You know, I also, you know, notice here too, you know, we've we've got a couple of videos that are, a little bit more on the, the advocacy side of things. And so when we look at, you know, these, you know, top six videos here, we also see, you know, two, two of them here, both, just above 2000 views.

00:13:36:23 - 00:14:15:08
John Simmerman
We see the why so close and then the Idaho stop, where you guys did, like, this demonstration and and really sort of like re-emphasized. Why? It's silly to try to apply motor vehicle laws to people riding bikes. You know, bikes are not cars. And so it's it's really, really important to understand. So the Idaho stop, which is colloquially known as the, is a set of laws that give bikes the opportunity to treat a stop sign like a yield and a stop light, like a stop sign.

00:14:15:11 - 00:14:39:06
John Simmerman
And then there's like 18 states or whatever. I'm not sure if any Canadian provinces have a law like this yet. No. Not yet. You're shaking your head. So, I highly encourage, you know, cities and and states to adopt. The Colorado safety stop is the law that they, they use or the name of the law that they use or the Idaho stop.

00:14:39:06 - 00:15:02:01
John Simmerman
Idaho, was the first I think it was like 18 years ago (edit: actually it was over 40 years) that they put theirs in. And so it's it's kind of like been there long enough to to demonstrate that it's it's valid. And I can't remember how many total states, maybe 18 is from that. The number of states that have actually passed laws to be able to do this.

00:15:02:04 - 00:15:28:26
John Simmerman
It's just much safer to actually navigate through the streets when you're not constantly you know, coming to a full stop at a stop sign, especially when there's absolutely nobody around. You know, it's like you can treat that as a yield. And then, you know, for stoplights, you're able to come to a stop, see that it's safe to proceed and proceed when it's safe for you to do so on a bike, obviously not blowing through stop signs and not blowing through stoplights.

00:15:28:28 - 00:15:46:02
John Simmerman
That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about reckless riding of a bike. But that's not what you guys did. You did this as a demonstration. And the results were pretty amazing. Why don't you walk us through the the gist of, what happens in this video?

00:15:46:05 - 00:16:12:19
Patty Wiens
So, what happened was, again, in Canada, our provinces dictate the traffic laws, right? So I think it's a lot like the states as well. And and, nobody wants to be first at anything, right? So. So what we did here is we're like, okay, this is what you want us to do. Then we will show you what it looks like when we do it.

00:16:12:24 - 00:16:41:03
Patty Wiens
And we're going to do it single file, like you say. And we're going to do it during rush hour in one of the busier streets, because we want to show. And it was a neighborhood street. It wasn't a major thoroughfare because we needed stop signs to do this. Demonstrate demonstration. Right. So, within five minutes of the demonstration, there was two car and car collisions because the drivers were very confused, number one.

00:16:41:05 - 00:17:14:07
Patty Wiens
And they they were terrified. And you get here. So the bike community here is crazy powerful. And we, you know, this this, saying that comes out saying, the bicycle, the all powerful bicycle lobby or the all powerful lobby. Right. So here we feel that there's only really three, 300 of us on this discord, that we have this local discord that are really active.

00:17:14:10 - 00:17:36:14
Patty Wiens
But we feel like thousands because one person has an idea and the idea takes off, like there is no stopping it. People say, did you organize it? I'm like, you don't understand. There is no, there's no stopping. Once the idea gets out there, one person makes a new, you know, a part, a policy review that gets submitted to the province.

00:17:36:20 - 00:18:05:29
Patty Wiens
One person writes the media release. You know, we have several people that are super skilled and ready to act on it. So then this protest happened, and it was an hour of this, the news came out and of course, nothing came of it. We got we, we wrote to the provincial government, but the only thing they said was like, yeah, well, there's no other promises in Canada that currently have this law, so we are not going to pass it.

00:18:06:01 - 00:18:10:24
Patty Wiens
You know, we will take it into consideration. Thanks for writing. Thanks for nothing. Right. Yeah.

00:18:10:26 - 00:18:33:15
John Simmerman
And how much do you think of that is part of the problem is that no other provinces have gone through and, and passed a similar type of, you know, like a Colorado safety stop law or an Idaho stop law. Do you think that that's part of the problem? Is that like because there's no that because there's not that first province, there's not that first state.

00:18:33:15 - 00:19:01:19
John Simmerman
Idaho was the first. I don't remember the context of how they came to be the first, but it was pretty brave that they did that. They paved the way to be the first of 50 states to be able to say, we're going to do this. It makes sense. Do you think that it's going to take, like, you know, B.C. or or, you know, or, you know, Quebec or, you know, with some other province to be able to, to be like, yeah, no, no, no, no, we we need to do this.

00:19:01:21 - 00:19:09:09
Patty Wiens
It's going to take a government that has the political will. I'm going to say, well, so that I don't get banned on YouTube.

00:19:09:11 - 00:19:18:24
John Simmerman
What would you what would you say the, the, the odds on favorite would be, would it be B.C. with British Columbia?

00:19:18:27 - 00:19:20:27
Patty Wiens
I you know B.C..

00:19:21:00 - 00:19:22:00
John Simmerman
He thought.

00:19:22:03 - 00:19:22:13
Patty Wiens
About.

00:19:22:13 - 00:19:25:12
John Simmerman
It. I meant to say B.C. with Vancouver. Sorry. Yeah.

00:19:25:15 - 00:19:47:26
Patty Wiens
Yeah, yeah. So B.C. probably is the closest because they have been making a little noise about it. They have been changing some of the traffic laws on the speed at which you can pass a cyclist, depending on the road and, or the distance at which you can pass a cyclist depending on speed. So they're making some headway.

00:19:48:03 - 00:20:24:04
Patty Wiens
And also, for example, Victoria has some great bike infrastructure. They are prioritizing the bike. There's a large share of users that use the bike for commuting. They have better weather. So there is a large chance that it will be B.C. Quebec I think would be a close second. I'm not familiar with the Quebec provincial government. I know that on the municipal level of Quebec City and Montreal, we have some strong leaders who are willing to make, you know, decisions instead of just worrying about worrying about getting reelected, right?

00:20:24:04 - 00:20:54:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, I was just thinking of how strong, you know, Mayor Plant is there in, in, in in Montreal. So I could totally see them putting some pressure on the provincial government to say, you know what? Well, let's update. Yeah. Heck yeah. Exactly. And an end in and I'm glad you mentioned that too, because it's one of the things that I talk about frequently here on the channel is that, you know, some of the, the most progressive and the strongest mayors that we're seeing worldwide are female.

00:20:54:14 - 00:21:39:20
John Simmerman
They're they're women, strong women that are actually seeing things through the eyes. I think of being able to appreciate, what the power of the bicycle is. And, Melissa Brundtland and I have talked about this before, of when you look at, you know, the types of trips that, that mothers end up taking, there are oftentimes what we call trip chaining where they're, they're they're doing these little additional trips as part of caregiving and things like this, not to get too terribly into gender stereotypes or anything like that, but it just there's a level of appreciation and awareness that I think is, is just I don't think it's, a coincidence that, when

00:21:39:20 - 00:21:48:13
John Simmerman
we look at Mary Hidalgo and we look at the fund and we see, yes, thank God you go, girl, because it's awesome. Yeah.

00:21:48:16 - 00:22:33:22
Patty Wiens
One of the things about, that I bring up all the time is, there is a book that I think everyone should read and especially males, and it's called Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. I talked about this on a different podcast that I did, and it talks about how women are the primary caregivers, and we make the little trips that contribute the most to the GDP while the men are going to work taking their cars and using the major routes, oftentimes the women all over the world are taking the the side streets are taking their bikes are are making the streets the, the, the trips with the strollers and the busses.

00:22:33:22 - 00:22:59:08
Patty Wiens
Right. So Sweden did this, experiment where they were clearing the snow out of the side routes first to because cars can't get through, they can't get through snow, especially the way the vehicles are getting so huge these days. Right. And so they started clearing the side streets and making it easier for women to push strollers for women to ride bikes.

00:22:59:11 - 00:23:19:26
Patty Wiens
And the GDP went up considerably because the women were able to get to the grocery store, to the mall, to buy the clothing, to, you know, to to give care to their parents. So if we prioritize women in our society, chances are everyone will be better off. We are half. We take care of the little ones for the most part, you know.

00:23:19:26 - 00:23:27:04
Patty Wiens
Not again. Not trying not to stereotype the gender here, but it's the reality. So in most countries of the world.

00:23:27:07 - 00:23:57:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that kind of bubbles up from this is also even the data that we collect when we look at, the data of bicycle mode share, oftentimes the data, at least in the United States, is skewed towards, the commute is skewed towards, you know, the longer distance commute to work and not even taking into consideration all of those other trips that you just talked about.

00:23:57:18 - 00:24:47:07
John Simmerman
It's the shorter trips. And it it can oftentimes be when we take into those trips into consideration, they're often very bikeable distances. If only we had safe infrastructure in to be able to support, you know, those shorter trips and those caregiving trips and those trips, teeny teeny types of trips. And I think that's where when you you mentioned Victoria, we mentioned Vancouver, we mentioned Montreal, these cities, I think in North America are just doing a fantastic job of empowering everyone of all ages and abilities and especially, you know, those caregiving women for, you know, making it safe and feasible and possible for them to do those short trips, those multiple trips, by

00:24:47:07 - 00:24:51:22
John Simmerman
bike and, and maybe even grab a sunflower and put it in your basket.

00:24:51:25 - 00:24:52:13
Patty Wiens
To ride.

00:24:52:18 - 00:24:54:22
John Simmerman
On your trip. Yeah.

00:24:54:25 - 00:25:17:20
Patty Wiens
Well, that right there with us, sunflower. That's Darya. She she's a power powerhouse here, too. She's, a leader in the bike community. She organizes these fun group rides. Every second Tuesday in the summer. They're fun themed, and, you know, group rides that are fun themed are really good for the community. And it really brings us together.

00:25:17:20 - 00:25:28:21
Patty Wiens
So, yeah, the the women are doing great things in this city. Absolutely. And we have a lot a strong, male community as well in, in Winnipeg. Yeah, yeah.

00:25:28:21 - 00:25:48:05
John Simmerman
So I think what I love too about this, this, this photo and I'm glad you channeled and shared a little bit more about her, is that she's riding a Dutch bike and it's a step through frame Dutch bike. And that's what I've how I know Winnipeg. I've profiled the Plain Bicycle Project before.

00:25:48:07 - 00:25:50:11
Patty Wiens
With Aaron Reader and another.

00:25:50:11 - 00:26:15:11
John Simmerman
Reader. Who has just this delightful podcast, series that she produced a few years ago and encourage everybody, I'll include the link below to to that episode I did. I interviewed her twice and, they talk about it of of these Dutch bicycles. These these are relaxed, upright, casual bikes as being like a culture bomb that went off there in Winnipeg.

00:26:15:14 - 00:26:37:08
John Simmerman
That really helps support, sort of like what you were talking about was just how strong the community is there. And you mentioned the, the discord, channel that, that you all have there. Talk about the power of that discord channel and what it's meant to the bicycle community there, and how you're able to mobilize with that.

00:26:37:11 - 00:27:05:16
Patty Wiens
So with the discord channel, we can give whether tips or, you know, trail clearing tips. And it was mostly that for the longest time. And then one morning, June 6th this year, we all get to work. And, you know, we're about to share a root, you know, talk about, hey, how they go going in today and someone post, hey, guys, is everyone okay?

00:27:05:16 - 00:27:32:06
Patty Wiens
And there was a news article of a release from the Winnipeg police saying a cyclist was hit on Wellington Crescent, which is, a really common bike route, sort of close in central Winnipeg. And we're all, you know, getting closer to computers, zooming in to see if we recognize a bike. It doesn't look good. There's red, there's yellow tape.

00:27:32:09 - 00:28:03:21
Patty Wiens
There's no it was just a terrifying feeling. And I think that we were glued to our screens for the better part of the morning until an announcement came out saying that a cyclist had been killed and there was speed involved. So the name was released and we didn't know who that was. But it didn't matter to us. It didn't matter that it wasn't someone who was officially part of our community.

00:28:03:21 - 00:28:09:20
Patty Wiens
Because the minute you get on a bike, you're part of our community, right? So we were able this.

00:28:09:25 - 00:28:14:25
John Simmerman
Is that with this right is here is is, in honor of this person.

00:28:14:25 - 00:28:41:12
Patty Wiens
In honor of. Yeah, his name is Rob Jenner. And so what happened at first is we had to before we could do this. Well, the very first thing that happened was we organized a protest where we shut down that intersection. 200 cyclists showed up that day, and we organized it overnight. It was one of those what time are we going to go?

00:28:41:12 - 00:29:07:04
Patty Wiens
Who's all going to come? There was 200 cyclists that showed up in matter of just organizing overnight, and then the community members started coming from there, coming down from their apartments, coming out of their houses and joining our protest. The police shut down the intersection so that, you know, drivers weren't trying to get through. So it was quiet and it was safe.

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:33:00
Patty Wiens
But it was solemn, right? So we knew we wanted to do a ghost bike. And there isn't a lot of ghost bikes in Winnipeg in the last few years. Yeah, partly because the community hadn't been really organized before, but, we needed to get permission, to do this ghost bike because it is a reminder to the family of the location where their loved one was killed.

00:29:33:00 - 00:29:54:29
Patty Wiens
So it was tasked with me as the bicycle mayor to reach out to the family and see if they would be willing to let us honor his life this way. Right. Because it is kind of a protest as well. So we wanted to make sure they were on board with it and, I got in touch with Wendy, who you see on the picture there, and we started talking.

00:29:54:29 - 00:30:27:16
Patty Wiens
She's so amazing. She's like the most amazing human and she she allowed the bike community into her life. You know, she really embraced us and, and, invited us to, to celebrate his life. So the pictures before, we did, we did sort of, celebration of his life with 200 people at his old place of employment, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights.

00:30:27:18 - 00:30:36:02
Patty Wiens
Lots of people showed up and we rode all. And I don't know if you noticed, but we're all wearing red, which was. Yes, I did.

00:30:36:02 - 00:30:37:07
John Simmerman
Notice that.

00:30:37:10 - 00:31:16:29
Patty Wiens
Yeah. So red was his favorite color. And, he had, he loved wearing red to end the week because he liked finishing strong. Kind of like Tiger Woods, right? So then we said, let's wear red to finish this. Strong as well. His wife is becoming an advocate as well. We we are planning some fundraising, to bring awareness to my safety and also to donate to a school downtown that focuses on teaching kids how to get around by bike, teaching them how to fix bikes.

00:31:17:01 - 00:31:41:20
Patty Wiens
But, you know, this whole thing really came about because the community was so united on our discord server, we were able to do a lot. The the Idaho Stop protest came together from their discord. We have some people who are so passionate and active that if I was going to say their names, I'd be sitting here for an hour telling you the 200 people that impact my life every day.

00:31:41:23 - 00:31:50:02
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah. That's fantastic. So that also then prompted you to start this?

00:31:50:05 - 00:32:17:09
Patty Wiens
Yeah. So I was actually talking to Sarah Goodyear from the War on Cars one day and telling her, and she seemed really impressed that about our discord server. What a great idea. And I said, well, actually, why don't we just create one for everyone? That way anyone in the world can join and we can share ideas. And so I started this discord server.

00:32:17:09 - 00:32:39:02
Patty Wiens
I'd love more people to join. At the moment it's not very busy, not very active, but it's good because then the people who are there get a lot of attention. And, we're hoping that at least we can teach others how to mobilize their own communities, how to. Because, you know, there are a lot of us out there.

00:32:39:02 - 00:32:40:24
Patty Wiens
We just need to find each other.

00:32:40:27 - 00:33:08:25
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah, I've, I've got the discord server here on, or this particular, discord, the global bike advocacy. And yeah, we've, we've got lots of little chats going on. The opportunity for you to introduce yourself and where you're from and, add some other, color to it as well. I have to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time out in discord servers.

00:33:08:25 - 00:33:43:03
John Simmerman
And in that environment, I'm just spending so much time heads down producing content as a YouTube, you know, primarily YouTube content creator. That's what I do. And so I don't have a whole lot of extra time for that. But I know that it's there, and I know that it is a wonderful resource for, for folks. And, and I probably should have spent a little bit more time out there just, you know, introducing, to the audience out there who I am and who active Towns is as a, as a resource as well.

00:33:43:06 - 00:33:50:26
John Simmerman
What other things do you imagine that are going to happen out there on that? Global advocacy, discord channel?

00:33:50:28 - 00:34:12:16
Patty Wiens
So the reason that we love our discord server so much is because social media is becoming very toxic. You know, I notice on my Instagram that as soon as one of my reels, I have one reel that really took off and it's me yelling at some guy in a bike lane because he was parked there on his phone or, you know, just sitting, waiting for someone.

00:34:12:16 - 00:34:35:23
Patty Wiens
And, and I kind of just took off on him. And this happens on the regular. But for some reason, I thought I'd post one of the videos and it really went viral. And the hate that I started getting on there was so vile and threatening that I had to shut off the comments. The same happened and you know, you were showing my YouTube channel the The Why So Close video.

00:34:35:23 - 00:35:00:02
Patty Wiens
I had to shut off the comments on there because I was getting threats. Right. You know, and I don't know what it is about men in trucks that are so sensitive to a woman riding a bike. I just I'm sorry I, I got so close to, you know, I don't know, but, but, so this discord offers a layer of protection, right?

00:35:00:09 - 00:35:19:28
Patty Wiens
I can vent on there. And I know that someone's going to have my back. I can ask for help, and I'm going to have genuine help from someone who can say, hey, you need to report this and follow these steps. This has happened to me before. You're going to be okay. Is there anything I can do for you?

00:35:20:00 - 00:35:46:14
Patty Wiens
And this community really came together when we are actually together in person. It's kind of strange because we know each other so well from the discord. So I really am hoping we can do the same with the global discord server that we can become a global community. As part of the Bike Bikes network, we have a WhatsApp chat where we share ideas with each other and we have quarterly online meetings.

00:35:46:21 - 00:36:12:29
Patty Wiens
But I find that some of the chatter gets lost in there because I watch that chat is so linear. And the nice thing about the discord is we can say, okay, this is the advocacy channel. Is there any advocacy you're working on? And this is the this is the whatever channel, you know, general or introduction. So you can kind of group these things so that they don't all get lost.

00:36:13:01 - 00:36:37:11
Patty Wiens
And that's what I'm hoping will happen is we will be able to use each other as a resource to connect to each other, to mobilize each other. There's there's some people who are really quiet in their cities because they don't know where the bike people are, you know, and I always say in my videos, if you're lonely in you're riding a bike, whenever you stop at a stop sign and you see another person on a bike to say, hey, nice bike, guess what?

00:36:37:16 - 00:36:43:04
Patty Wiens
In five minutes you're going to have a brand new friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love talking about that. Right.

00:36:43:07 - 00:37:09:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. It's that's right. And and it's I mean, that's the great thing about riding a bike is that, you're able to have like, little connections, little social interactions. They can be is as much as just smile on a wave or as much as, oh, cool bike, that's great. It's really hard to have that sort of interaction when you're enclosed in a box.

00:37:09:13 - 00:37:11:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's another.

00:37:11:25 - 00:37:27:06
Patty Wiens
I think that Erin talked a little bit about this on her interview with you. Right. The slow ride, the take it easy ride. Right, exactly. And also, there's there's a movie called motherlode, and, I don't know if, you know, this.

00:37:27:09 - 00:37:40:03
John Simmerman
Is the director, so. Yeah, and Liz has been on and so, folks, you'll you'll want to watch that episode as well, because we get in deep into the all the, the loaded stuff in motherlode.

00:37:40:06 - 00:37:59:26
Patty Wiens
So. Exactly. The idea I think one of the things that really struck me when I was watching it and it kind of brought me to tears at a, at a really odd part of the movie was, yeah, you know, when, when the man gets in the car and he's isolated, right? We are so isolated and insulated inside our vehicles that we lose touch with our community.

00:37:59:29 - 00:38:28:00
Patty Wiens
I was talking to Sarah Goodyear about this, too. You know, when you ride a bike, it was Mark Twain that said you become part of the communities you bike through, right? And here in Winnipeg, we have a large, indigenous US population. We have a large, unhoused population. And when you're in a car, they're just someone you pass by, right?

00:38:28:06 - 00:38:50:19
Patty Wiens
It's a problem you hear about in the news about, you know, the lack of housing, right? Poverty. Those are things you hear about in the news. But when you're riding a bike, you have to make a choice. Do I want to take the route that's going to be through an encampment? But it's a beautiful river route, or do I want to be on the road cheering with the cars?

00:38:50:22 - 00:38:58:03
Patty Wiens
Right. And as a bike person, I will take the encampment route any day because it's way safer than being on the road with a car.

00:38:58:06 - 00:38:59:12
John Simmerman
Sure.

00:38:59:14 - 00:39:17:02
Patty Wiens
But when you're in a car, you have no idea what your city is really going through. For the most part, I'm not saying all car drivers, but the chances are that if you know, the bike really gives you a connection to your community in a way that the car doesn't.

00:39:17:04 - 00:39:50:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. And part of it is speed and part of it is isolation. You know, if you're traveling through, you know, the environment is 60km/h. That's complete different than if you're going through, you know, it's, you know, you name a number 30km/h, you know, just just below 20mph, you're able to see the world at a different level, slow that down to 20km/h, and you're really feeling the richness of what you see around you.

00:39:50:23 - 00:40:13:26
John Simmerman
It's totally different. Totally different. You mentioned that you mentioned bikes, and so bikes is the organization, the, they're based in, Amsterdam and, it's a worldwide bicycle mayor program and many other types of programs. Talk a little bit about, bikes and, how you became a bicycle mayor.

00:40:13:28 - 00:40:40:22
Patty Wiens
So, I was already really involved in my community through Bike Winnipeg. Actually, Bike Winnipeg is our local, not for profit advocacy group. And, one of the meetings, one of the board members said, look, Patty, I think you should apply to be our bike mayor, because before some, you know, old white guy does it. Yeah. And I said, okay, well, I don't know if you think that I should be.

00:40:40:25 - 00:41:04:04
Patty Wiens
So I looked into it and really, it's it's a network that gives me access to resources. It gives me access to people who are doing a lot of work in their own towns. There's over 200 bicycle mayors all over the world. They're in every continent now. Right. So I talk about it like, wearing a cape. I am really nobody.

00:41:04:04 - 00:41:30:04
Patty Wiens
I'm just another bike advocate. But when I have this cape, I can contact you and say, hey, I'm the bicycle mayor of Winnipeg. I'd love to get together. I love to hear what you're doing there. Right. So it gives me the super power of being able to connect with other bicycle mayors all over the world. In fact, I'm going to Brazil and December, and I'm going to connect with two bicycle mayors, in our travels.

00:41:30:04 - 00:41:48:23
Patty Wiens
So yeah, I'm really excited to to see what people are doing all over the world. So to become a bicycle mayor, you have to submit an application and you have an interview, and you have to have three letters of recommendation from people in the community who think you're a good choice. So yeah.

00:41:48:26 - 00:42:09:22
John Simmerman
Fantastic. And and yes, it's it's you mentioned you have a your WhatsApp, you know, communication with that. It's a tremendous, program and initiative. I did have the CEO and co-founder of bikes on the channel. So if you're interested in that interview, folks, again, I'll leave the link below so you can check that out.

00:42:09:25 - 00:42:20:23
John Simmerman
So what's what's new and what's up for the future for you any, any anything super, fun, exciting on the near horizon.

00:42:20:25 - 00:42:43:14
Patty Wiens
You know, we are activating our community right now. I, like I said, I'm on the board of Bike Winnipeg, and it's an advocacy group. We have large needs. We need we. Bike Winnipeg has two mandates. One to advocate for better, safer streets and a better bicycle, and a completion of the bicycle network and two, for people to use this network.

00:42:43:14 - 00:43:07:23
Patty Wiens
So. Right. So for me, I like to I decided this year that one of the things that I was going to do on my YouTube video, which, my YouTube videos, which is not exactly that popular and I'm not going to go, viral with these things is to create videos of safe routes, all over Winnipeg because our network is not complete, there are a lot of gaps.

00:43:07:29 - 00:43:30:12
Patty Wiens
It's important that people know sort of the the shortcuts and the, the, the streets that have, you know, the slower traffic or the neighborhood greenways. And so I've started a project where I create there, you know, the Winnipeg bike routes. So I kind of show people, okay, this is how you get from here to there, and they can download a Google map and follow along.

00:43:30:15 - 00:43:58:03
Patty Wiens
And people love it right now. So that's one of the things that I'm working on. And then, you know, I have been part of a few meetings with our active transportation, committee, I guess public works and the people who work on, active transportation, they often ask for Bike Winnipeg's input on their routes. So I've been in a few meetings, to be honest with you.

00:43:58:03 - 00:44:12:22
Patty Wiens
It's kind of frustrating because there isn't a lot of money. You know, every time we look at a project and we say, wow, this will be great. And they go, well, don't get excited. It's not funded yet, you know? So.

00:44:12:25 - 00:44:23:08
John Simmerman
And how does how does infrastructure get funded there? That's a that's my next question. My follow up is how does infrastructure if there's not money there? Well, where does the money come from.

00:44:23:11 - 00:44:57:24
Patty Wiens
Well money comes money for road infrastructure. And 18 for structure comes from property taxes just like everything else. But, you know, the problem here is that a lot of our road infrastructure ends up going to, road renewal or potholes, right? With our extreme weather. It's crazy the amount of maintenance that our roads require and vehicles are getting heavier and traffic is getting heavier.

00:44:57:24 - 00:45:30:14
Patty Wiens
It is, you know, it's a human humanitarian crisis, really. The amount of traffic, the amount of big vehicles. And we're trying to work with our city officials, we're saying look like more money in bike infrastructure means less to worry about potholes. And but the political will here, you know, just like in a lot of places in North America, is they have this view of, well, I need to get elected or I need in order to get elected.

00:45:30:14 - 00:45:32:14
Patty Wiens
I need to promise one more lane.

00:45:32:16 - 00:45:49:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, and that brings us right back around to some of the strong women mayors that we've been pointing to. The Mayor Hill dog was of the world, and mayor plants of the world. They have basically just been very, very up front and saying, this is our vision for the city, and we're moving forward with this vision.

00:45:49:25 - 00:46:06:22
John Simmerman
If you if this doesn't match with what you want, vote us out. And they don't they keep reelecting them. Because it is a vision that once it's on the ground, you start to realize, wow, this is really empowering. This is really meaningful. And to your.

00:46:06:22 - 00:46:08:19
Patty Wiens
Eye, you think I should run for mayor?

00:46:08:21 - 00:46:31:26
John Simmerman
Well, there you go. You're already the bicycle mayor. What the heck? Why not? But you know what I do to your point, to your point is you're not getting a very good return on your dollar anyways for your investment of automobile infrastructure. Because of the extreme weather, because of the extreme weight in and the, you know, the fact that, you know, these larger vehicles are beating the heck out of the roads.

00:46:31:26 - 00:47:11:13
John Simmerman
Anyways, that's the great thing about bicycle infrastructure and bicycle network is that, you know, if it's if it's put down, if it's built well, it lasts a lot longer because the impact of a person on a bike, the impact of a family on a cargo bike is nothing compared to a massive SUV. So yeah, I, I think there's a great return on invested story there from an ROI perspective of, hey, let's invest in this safe and inviting all ages and abilities network and we'll get a far greater return on investment compared to your typical, you know, asphalt roadway.

00:47:11:15 - 00:47:23:24
Patty Wiens
And you know that, and I know that. And chances are our mayor knows that, too. Our mayor actually rides a bike to work, you know? But the truth is he wants to get reelected. And, you know, and.

00:47:23:25 - 00:47:49:14
John Simmerman
I think that's what you were talking about earlier, though, right? Is okay. I'm glad that this conversation has gone in this direction because it is about political will, and it is about getting reelected. The way that we can really help that along is trying to really bring more people into the fold. And that's where community building up the community and building up the awareness and making our tent as wide as possible.

00:47:49:16 - 00:48:10:29
John Simmerman
And that's where I think especially women and families can really help us grow the awareness of, well, who's a cyclist? Well, a cyclist is not that dude in Lycra. A cyclist is like, everyone can be someone who, you know, wants to get on a bike and get to school, or get to the grocery store, or get to a friend's house.

00:48:11:01 - 00:48:33:15
John Simmerman
And you start to realize that we need to grow the constitu onesie so that the political, the electeds know that, oh, I need to support this, because if I don't support this, I won't get reelected. And that's when the political will really comes around, is when they see that there's ramifications for not supporting active mobility.

00:48:33:17 - 00:48:59:01
Patty Wiens
Yes. And, you know, a city that has made, great, headway in this is Edmonton. I don't know if that's in your radar or not, but, one thing they did is they slowly replaced their city council, with people who, were pro bike infrastructure who were pro. We are a winter city. We will do all these things that we do in summer.

00:48:59:01 - 00:49:11:23
Patty Wiens
We will also do in winter. Right. They stole our title. We are Winnipeg Winter Peg, and they went and declared themselves as a winter city. And now we're sitting here going, what? Why don't we do it?

00:49:12:00 - 00:49:15:14
John Simmerman
And aren't they also sort of like an oil and gas city too?

00:49:15:16 - 00:49:45:23
Patty Wiens
Well, here's the thing. They are a progressive city inside of a very conservative province, but their city council has vision. They're saying we can't sustain this. We don't want our young people to leave. So let's provide housing. Let's cut the parking minimums. Let's, put in, an LRT, let's put in bike lanes with priority winter clearing so that people can use them year round.

00:49:45:25 - 00:50:07:28
Patty Wiens
Let's respect that. Right. So, if you don't follow Michael, Jen's, on Instagram, I suggest you do. He's one of the city councils. And Edmonton is shocking every time I, I suppose I'm like, you're a city councilor. You're just so bold and you know, and willing to put his neck on the line and and he's getting reelected and he's getting he.

00:50:07:28 - 00:50:18:19
Patty Wiens
People love him. And and it goes to show. Listen, you gotta stand up. You can't just compromise all the time. Because if you compromise all the time, you're going to end up compromised.

00:50:18:22 - 00:50:41:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I think that's where we can help as advocates and activists and community members, is we can have their back when they do stand up. And that's where you're able to get that virtuous cycle of being able to, as a leader, show political will. And then that virtue, you know, kind of that that wheel starts going. It's like, oh, that this person is standing up for us.

00:50:41:00 - 00:50:57:12
John Simmerman
And then grow that group and, you know, and, and basically have their back when they do that. Because that's incredibly important. I want to pop over to your website too. Okay. So here's your here's your website and you've got your, your blog there. I love your logo, by the way.

00:50:57:14 - 00:51:04:22
Patty Wiens
So the joke is that I one day I put a tiara on the helmet as a joke and I never took it off. So I'm like, oh, that's how I look now.

00:51:04:22 - 00:51:26:20
John Simmerman
So that's fantastic. That's fantastic. So this is, again, we'll include the link, to your website in the, the video description below and, and the show notes, some folks can, you know, pop over there and click on those links. You also sent over a, how how do we, how do we phrase this, this document?

00:51:26:23 - 00:51:28:11
John Simmerman
It's for the WPI.

00:51:28:11 - 00:51:55:05
Patty Wiens
I document the the MPI. So yeah, I know in in Manitoba, in Winnipeg we have public insurance. So it's, I don't know how you guys do your, car insurance there, but here we have public insurance, and, they they released a traffic collision statistics report, every year. But as you can see, they just released the one from two years ago.

00:51:55:05 - 00:52:21:11
Patty Wiens
It's very far behind. I imagine that it's because they need to, analyze, you know, make sure that a collision is, like, who's at fault. And there is lots of legal things involved. We can make excuses for them all day. But one of the things that I wanted to highlight here is on page three, it says that overall, our traffic collisions in Manitoba increased by 25% in 2022.

00:52:21:11 - 00:52:51:10
Patty Wiens
So this is all data and it's already horrible, right? We know that traffic collisions are even higher. Sorry the sun is on my face. So you okay. But I'll move forward a bit here. But, our traffic collisions have increased by 25% from 21 to 22. 95 people were killed, which is 27% more than the five year average.

00:52:51:13 - 00:53:26:22
Patty Wiens
Right. And pedestrians accounted for 20% of people killed. Right. So, if you go to page five, I just want to tell you the top reasons here on why people are the most prevalent factors for victims killed. On the bottom of page five, it says distracted driving. 41% of people killed. Right. Speed 26 and impairments 17%.

00:53:26:25 - 00:53:34:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. Let's zoom in on this a little bit so we can actually see that. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah.

00:53:34:02 - 00:53:57:04
Patty Wiens
So how many times as a cyclist do I pull up to a car or a driver and they're on their cell phones. Right. And I knock on the window and they get so angry at me and they flip their fingers and they yell at me, and I'm like, I, you're on your cell phone. You know, you how did you see you?

00:53:57:11 - 00:53:59:20
Patty Wiens
How do you mean? You rolled a stop sign?

00:53:59:23 - 00:54:04:07
John Simmerman
Yeah. I'm assuming in your province, driving while on your phone is illegal. Is that.

00:54:04:07 - 00:54:25:19
Patty Wiens
Correct? It is not legal. It is illegal. And there is a $250 penalty for it or something like that. Even higher probably. And here they are. There's no punishment. There's no enforcement, you know, and and you tell anyone you ride your bike and they say, well, you guys are always rolling through stop signs. You know, you never saw that.

00:54:25:19 - 00:54:33:10
Patty Wiens
Some signs I'm like, well, maybe you can get off your cell phone and see the times that we do stop. I don't know.

00:54:33:13 - 00:54:48:10
John Simmerman
It's the demonstration that you did and say, well, you're in. Do you want us to show you what it's like if we stop at a stop sign the way you want us to be like you should when you're driving? Because again, a bike is not a car.

00:54:48:13 - 00:54:49:16
Patty Wiens
We should stop treating.

00:54:49:16 - 00:54:50:18
John Simmerman
Them like they are.

00:54:50:20 - 00:55:12:23
Patty Wiens
Yeah, well, I think that what we need to, to really do going forward is realize that this is a serious humanitarian crisis. People are dying on our streets because of speed and vehicle size and distraction. We need to do something before it's.

00:55:12:25 - 00:55:51:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. And and I like to re-emphasize that those countries that have been very successful at addressing this challenge, they do not address it by enforcement. They address this successfully by street design, by network design. You want somebody to pay attention while driving, then create an environment where it forces them to pay attention while driving. Part of the challenge is that we build our network with such huge, wide open spaces that, you know, it's easy to text and drive at the same time.

00:55:52:00 - 00:56:12:15
John Simmerman
You know, you've got a massively over wide, oversize lane that doesn't demand your attention. It's really easy as drivers to, like, get a false sense of security, and that also encourages high speed and voila, what do you end up having? You have both distraction and speed.

00:56:12:18 - 00:56:32:09
Patty Wiens
Absolutely. And a friend of mine, a friend of mine was complaining to me, because, you know, I take also I'm also the complaint department. I guess whenever someone's upset about bike lanes. And a friend of mine was complaining to me. Well, you know, and I was in Victoria and I was driving there and that there's way too many bike lanes.

00:56:32:12 - 00:56:41:27
Patty Wiens
It's so hard to drive there. I have to just keep an eye on the road all the time. And I'm like, really?

00:56:42:00 - 00:56:42:27
John Simmerman
It's working.

00:56:43:00 - 00:56:45:29
Patty Wiens
That and that what.

00:56:46:01 - 00:56:53:21
John Simmerman
It's like, oh my gosh, it's so hard to drive here. There's so many pedestrians and and it's like, It's a nice.

00:56:53:21 - 00:57:00:27
Patty Wiens
Place to pay attention. And I have to go slow and I don't know which way to go. It's not very clear. Yes, it's called slow.

00:57:00:28 - 00:57:31:12
John Simmerman
But I think it's important too, because we are in just sort of laughing at these people because it is kind of comical that it's there. But I also want to always emphasize that we have to cut the drivers a little bit of slack, in the sense that this is the system for the last 80 to 100 years that has been built for us as drivers and change is hard, and this is what we've become to expect.

00:57:31:18 - 00:57:46:14
John Simmerman
We've become, you know, really conditioned to feel like the road is our our space and it's wide open and we can drive fast. And all of a sudden things start to change. Oh yeah. Here, let me.

00:57:46:18 - 00:57:46:27
Patty Wiens
Read.

00:57:46:29 - 00:57:51:03
John Simmerman
It. Let's zoom out. Let's let's get that okay. Go ahead. Go ahead and show it. There you go.

00:57:51:09 - 00:57:52:26
Patty Wiens
You go. Yeah.

00:57:52:27 - 00:58:28:16
John Simmerman
Exactly the time flood classic. And so I do like to emphasize that, you know, we are in a situation where as we are trying to change our built environment, as we're trying to, make our communities, more conducive to walking and biking, it is very, very difficult for people to deal with that change, especially, the elderly who have been driving on these same streets for 30, 40, 50 years and then are having a difficult time dealing with the changes.

00:58:28:18 - 00:58:49:18
John Simmerman
I see it in community open houses all the time, where they're like, what do you mean? You're you're narrowing the lanes? I don't feel comfortable with that. I'm going to have to slow down. I'm afraid I'm going to hit something. And we're like, yes, that's the whole point. So but we have to have a sense of empathy for the fact that change is always difficult.

00:58:49:20 - 00:59:09:06
John Simmerman
Some drivers are idiots and some drivers are just, you know, horrible, horrible. But the majority of people out there, if they understood more why this is important and it's good for their lives as well, and it will probably save their lives as well.

00:59:09:09 - 00:59:15:12
Patty Wiens
Well, you know what would really help us actually, is, Well, let's reteach and retest then.

00:59:15:14 - 00:59:40:22
John Simmerman
Yeah. I mean, I think reteaching and retesting is is part of it, but also just having a better understanding of what it means to build, you know, an environment that is more conducive to encouraging people to be able to walk and bike to places, because when you actually talk with people about what they like about their last visit to Europe and they're like, oh my gosh, it was amazing.

00:59:40:22 - 01:00:04:02
John Simmerman
I was able to walk and bike and and take transit and it was amazing. And you're like, yeah, that's what we're talking about. And and it really kind of emphasizes, you know, the logo that I have, the tagline that streets are for people. It's like reinforce the fact that streets have literally been around for thousands of years. We've just only allowed in the last 120 years for them to get monopolized by cars.

01:00:04:04 - 01:00:28:15
John Simmerman
So I think it's having that sense of empathy and a little bit of patience with people in, in the face of, of change to their environment and also expecting that we're going to get the worst responses, too, because we know that people, the status quo will not go silently, they will lash out. And we have to expect that.

01:00:28:15 - 01:00:45:07
John Simmerman
And when it comes, I think we have to be like a duck and let it roll off our back a little bit, because if we don't, we're just going to get revved up ourselves. And, you know, because you've you've been at the at the tail end, the receiving end of a lot of vitriol and and that's not fair.

01:00:45:10 - 01:01:13:22
Patty Wiens
But, you know, in order to have this, then people get used to the change in 20 years. We need to make the change today. The problem the problem is that we are making these changes so slow and incrementally, and at the same time, the vehicles are getting exponentially bigger and everyone has a vehicle in their house. We have someone in the neighborhood that it's two adults and three children, and there's five cars in the garage, you know.

01:01:13:25 - 01:01:29:10
John Simmerman
And you guys have a great example of of a quick moving, you know, network. I think it was Calgary. Right. That built out, the backbone of a network pretty much over, what, a 18 month period or 24 month period.

01:01:29:10 - 01:01:54:28
Patty Wiens
Yeah. I think much like Paris, they took advantage of the pandemic and just said, let's just put this down and see what happens, right. They they are not they're not winning that battle, though I think there is some resistance and some of these temporary lanes are getting taken out. But cities like Edmonton are making a $100 million investment the next five years over and above their pre-planned road renewal.

01:01:55:00 - 01:02:05:03
Patty Wiens
So that is leadership right there. That is someone saying, well, you know what? If we want people to be used to it in 20 years, we have to do it today. We don't have all the time in the world.

01:02:05:07 - 01:02:30:05
John Simmerman
And I would say that you we really don't have to wait 20 years for them to really get used to it. Humans actually adapt incredibly fast. So you can, if you can actually get demonstration projects on the ground quickly and make it happen, you will start to see change. And we saw this in severe also, you know, back in 2008.

01:02:30:08 - 01:03:06:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, 2008, in an 18 month period, they dropped an entire 120 kilometer bicycle network in place. Followed that up with, what I that's the hardware I like to call the software being the incentive programs and the engagement activities in the education and several, very, very powerful women and bike shop owners started teaching women how to be able to ride with their children, and they went from basically 0% mode share, you know, 1%, less than 1% to, you know, double digit, 10% mode share of bikes.

01:03:06:18 - 01:03:32:12
John Simmerman
And what I loved about visiting severe in 2018 was that who I saw on the streets, it was so amazing. I saw women and children riding the elderly riding relaxed upright bikes, not the dudes in lycra. They're there anyways. You know that 1% of the population, they're going to show up anyways. We're not worried about them. We were worried about getting other people who would ride if it were only safe to do so.

01:03:32:14 - 01:03:33:23
Patty Wiens
Absolutely. Yeah.

01:03:33:27 - 01:03:35:06
John Simmerman
So it can happen.

01:03:35:09 - 01:03:37:03
Patty Wiens
If you get it to. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

01:03:37:03 - 01:03:55:15
John Simmerman
Can't happen fast. The change the and that's what we do see over and over and over again. If you get something on the ground that's authentically safe it'll people will use it. But also the drivers will get used to the fact that it's a different dynamic on the street. They actually need to slow down. They get used to that.

01:03:55:15 - 01:04:00:03
Patty Wiens
Exactly, exactly, absolutely. Well, let's hope for that for sure.

01:04:00:09 - 01:04:13:19
John Simmerman
Okay. I want to go back to your YouTube page here real quick. Everybody, please pop on over, sign up for is subscribe to her page here. Really do appreciate it. Let's zoom out here so we can actually get your full page there. Boom.

01:04:13:22 - 01:04:15:29
Patty Wiens
Right there is my theta right there.

01:04:16:01 - 01:04:37:17
John Simmerman
There's the tier. The tier on the on the helmet I love it. And and here's your, your, your Instagram as well. You're very active out on Instagram and on threads. So I encourage folks, to follow along with you there. I will include the, the threads, link as well in the show notes.

01:04:37:19 - 01:04:48:01
John Simmerman
Final, final, final comments. Anything you'd like to leave the audience with? Any pearls of wisdom or inspiration for people who are tuning in from around the globe.

01:04:48:03 - 01:05:08:00
Patty Wiens
I always say this one thing that if you're watching this and you're feeling lonely and you're feeling lonely after the pandemic, like you've lost your people all you have to do is just add the bike, take your bike out. You got one in the garage, you know it's been in the rafters. You haven't used it in a while.

01:05:08:00 - 01:05:29:13
Patty Wiens
If you're not one of the one of us bike people yet, go grab it, go for a ride. And at the first stoplight when you're beside someone else, say, hey, where's the bike? People? Where do you guys hang out? Where do you have a WhatsApp group? Is there a group ride? And keep doing that until you until someone says, yeah, yeah, actually we're I'm going to ride tonight.

01:05:29:13 - 01:05:51:26
Patty Wiens
You know, and and really get in that community, become part of it. Your life will change immensely. Even if you have no desire of bike commuting doesn't matter. You can use a bike to go get groceries. You can use your bike to just get around the block and get some fresh air, and just let that change you because it will.

01:05:51:26 - 01:05:56:13
Patty Wiens
There is no way that you can ride a bike and not be changed forever.

01:05:56:15 - 01:06:00:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, get on a bike and put on a smile.

01:06:00:28 - 01:06:03:20
Patty Wiens
Yes, absolutely.

01:06:03:22 - 01:06:09:09
John Simmerman
Daddy, this has been so much fun catching up with you. Thank you so much for joining me on the Active Challenge podcast.

01:06:09:11 - 01:06:13:07
Patty Wiens
Thank you so much. It was so great. Great chatting with you, John.

01:06:13:09 - 01:06:28:12
John Simmerman
He thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Patty Wiens. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

01:06:28:17 - 01:06:48:27
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Towns Channel, please consider supporting my efforts. It's easy to do just head on over to Active towns.org. At the top of the page there is a support tab. There's several different options, including becoming an Active Towns Patreon supporter. Patrons do get access to all this video content early and ad free.

01:06:48:29 - 01:07:15:20
John Simmerman
Again, every little bit helps and is very much appreciated. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks as well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:07:15:23 - 01:07:16:29
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much!