Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:24
Maddy Novich
I was not a biker and I did not bike at all. And the cargo bike is actually the very first bike I have ever owned. It really became inspired when we spent the summer in the Netherlands. The Netherlands was, you know, one of these, you know, biking utopias for us. And so we were going there kind of frequently.

00:00:17:24 - 00:00:40:20
Maddy Novich
And then we finally did this exchange. And in true Dutch fashion, we walked into their garage and they had like a million bikes. Yeah, including, you know, the classic wooden boxes. And so we started taking it out and we just started moving our kids around by bike. And it was eye opening. And how efficient and how fun and how, you know, liberating.

00:00:40:20 - 00:00:58:29
Maddy Novich
Being on bike could be. This is such an incredible way of getting around New York City and experiencing New York City, that I just wanted to start getting that message out there. And so that's when I started the Instagram account to really promote what it's like biking in the city. And it's not nearly as scary and anyone can do it.

00:00:59:00 - 00:01:05:25
Maddy Novich
Most people can do it. And, you know, I just felt like I just wanted to, you know, try and be that inspiration.

00:01:05:28 - 00:01:26:06
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Maddy Novich. Also known as Cargo Bike Momma. Out on Instagram. And you can also sign up for her newsletter at CargoBikeMomma.com. And we are going to be learning about her journey to becoming a cargo bike influencer. I can't wait. Let's get right to it.

00:01:26:09 - 00:01:32:09
John Simmerman
Here is my.

00:01:32:11 - 00:01:36:22
John Simmerman
Well, Maddy Novich, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:36:25 - 00:01:38:24
Maddy Novich
Thank you so much for having me.

00:01:38:27 - 00:01:44:07
John Simmerman
Maddy. I love having my guest to see a few words about themselves. So who the heck is Maddy?

00:01:44:10 - 00:02:08:05
Maddy Novich
Well, I am a full time working mom of three little kids, based in New York City. as a professional, I am a criminal justice, professor here at a local liberal arts college. And when I am not being a professor and catering to my kids, I am also an Instagram influencer. promoting the cargo bike play as a car free car light alternative.

00:02:08:07 - 00:02:32:12
John Simmerman
Fantastic. That's fun. It's such a great story that you have. And I learned about you from your conversation with Tiffany over here at the Bottom Up Revolution, which is one of the Strong Towns podcast. how fun was that? was that one of your first few podcast episodes? you know, really talking about your your journey?

00:02:32:14 - 00:02:59:14
Maddy Novich
It was among the top first five. So I think I've won a few. I've done about 5 or 6 podcasts at this point. And Tiffany's Bottom Up Revolution podcast was maybe number four, I think. And it was great. It was great to connect with her. You know, she's also a mom. She's a biking mom. And so we had a lot to talk about in terms of how to create, biking as a you know, lifestyle as a parent.

00:02:59:17 - 00:03:09:20
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And of course, she's just up the road from me, up in Waco, Texas area. And so, another, Texas connection there.

00:03:09:23 - 00:03:10:04
Maddy Novich
Yes.

00:03:10:11 - 00:03:25:19
John Simmerman
For so talk a little bit about that story. How did you go from the job that you're doing, the serious work that you're doing to becoming, an influencer in this arena?

00:03:25:22 - 00:03:50:05
Maddy Novich
It was. I mean, I am a purely accidental influencer, right? It was not my, intention to become an influencer. I really wasn't even on Instagram before starting my cargo bike account. And so it was just one of those things where I decided to get a cargo bike. And I live in New York City, so I have this amazing backdrop to really showcase biking as a lifestyle.

00:03:50:08 - 00:04:10:06
Maddy Novich
And my husband was like, you know, you go everywhere on this bike. You need to start documenting where you're going. And you know, start an Instagram account, just take pictures. And, you know, after hemming and hawing for a while, I did. And then it became a really fun, creative outlet for me. So, you know, my work as a professor is, you know, it's very serious.

00:04:10:06 - 00:04:38:20
Maddy Novich
It's very intense. it's wonderful and rewarding, but it is less creative. in terms of creating, you know, art or visuals or movies or any of those things and very much research oriented and teaching oriented. and so I don't get to spend as much time doing creative things as, as a professor. And so when I started doing the Instagram account, I just realized how much I loved being a content creator.

00:04:38:22 - 00:04:58:01
Maddy Novich
And then being able to use that content creation to push an agenda, my own agenda to get us all, you know, out of the mindset that we need to have cars when we have families, that we need to move into the suburbs when we have families. And there is just so much there are so many alternatives if you can just live a little bit more creatively.

00:04:58:01 - 00:05:14:10
Maddy Novich
And so I started the Instagram account to really showcase that. And now it's, you know, it's really grown all organically and it's very niche and it's very active and fun and, you know, it's it's this great outlet that I enjoy.

00:05:14:12 - 00:05:34:11
John Simmerman
I love it, it's to me this is just such a fun, fun story. I want to zoom in on your your account here and, and just get it as large as I can on screen so that folks can see it. There you are. That is your handle. You are cargo bike mama on Instagram. Marinovich yeah, I love it.

00:05:34:13 - 00:05:55:01
John Simmerman
So to take us back to what you kind of shared a little bit there about your husband encouraging you to you to kind of tell your story and you get, you know, push pushing stuff out there. But take us rewind us back. What do you even got you interested in? Bikes and cargo bikes as a parent in New York?

00:05:55:03 - 00:06:11:29
Maddy Novich
That is a great question. my interest. So I should premise this by saying that I was not a biker and I did not bike at all, and the cargo bike is actually the very first bike I have ever owned. And so it was like, you know, I was I was with like marketing people would call a cold lead, right?

00:06:11:29 - 00:06:34:21
Maddy Novich
Like nowhere would I have guessed that I would be this cargo biking person. And it really became inspired when we spent the summer in the Netherlands. And we, you know, we do these amazing home exchanges where we swap our New York City apartments for these homes all over the world. And the Netherlands was, you know, one of these, you know, biking utopias for us.

00:06:34:21 - 00:06:54:09
Maddy Novich
And so we were going there kind of frequently. And then we finally did this exchange. And in true Dutch fashion, we walked into their garage and they had like a million bikes. Yeah, including, you know, the classic wooden boxes. And so we started taking it out and we just started moving our kids around by bike. And it was eye opening.

00:06:54:09 - 00:07:12:05
Maddy Novich
And how efficient and how fun and how, you know, liberating being on bike could be. And so we spent the summer in the Netherlands and we come back to New York and like day one, I have to go into the subway and I have to wait for the train for like 20 minutes, and then you're jammed in there and, you know, it's fine.

00:07:12:05 - 00:07:26:26
Maddy Novich
Our New York subway system is amazing and comprehensive, but after coming back from biking, where everything was my own time and my own experience, I walked out of the subway station. I said, Jeff, I need one of these bikes. We have to have one of these bikes. Like, I don't really care that I've never really biked in New York City.

00:07:26:26 - 00:07:42:18
Maddy Novich
I just I have to go back to that lifestyle. And he seems to me and he goes, well, that was the most expensive vacation we've ever taken. So we turn around and we order this like $9,000 bicycle, and I get it, you know, a month and a half later and it literally from day one, it changed my life.

00:07:42:21 - 00:08:03:24
Maddy Novich
And, that's kind of like how I started. And I felt like, you know, if I could do biking, you know, I'm five feet. I'm like 112 pounds on a good day, if I could bike this, like, massive 100 pound bicycle with my two, you know, then two kids, right? With no experience than anybody could do it. So then I was on a mission.

00:08:03:26 - 00:08:05:05
John Simmerman
You were on a mission.

00:08:05:08 - 00:08:29:18
Maddy Novich
That mission was to go and spread the word, right? To start proselytizing like cargo bike life. And being like, this is literally an amazing way of living. And we were car owners, right? We had a car before, while I was finishing my PhD because I needed it to get to campus. And so the moment I was no longer on campus, we got rid of the car and was doing the subway and the train and the public transit, and it was great.

00:08:29:20 - 00:08:46:29
Maddy Novich
And then we started doing the bike thing. And so I just was like, this is such an incredible way of getting around New York City and experiencing New York City, that I just wanted to start getting that message out there. And so that's when I started the Instagram account to really promote what it's like biking in the city.

00:08:46:29 - 00:08:56:09
Maddy Novich
And it's not nearly as scary. And anyone can do it. Most people can do it. And, you know, I just felt like I just wanted to, you know, try and be that inspiration.

00:08:56:11 - 00:09:00:16
John Simmerman
Yeah. What year was that first trip.

00:09:00:19 - 00:09:12:24
Maddy Novich
When we started going to the Netherlands in 2017. And by 2018 we went back and by 2019 I was like, I have to have a bike.

00:09:12:26 - 00:09:23:15
John Simmerman
Okay, so it's 20 2019. So yeah, so you've you're going into like year five of, of this, this new lifestyle of, of being cargo bike manner.

00:09:23:17 - 00:09:46:16
Maddy Novich
Of being cargo bike. And I became this like niche influencer. There's really very few other lifestyle cargo bike accounts. And so what's been really interesting is that it's really resonated for getting outside. We were talking a little early, right, about how do we break the barriers of these other audiences who aren't just biking people. And so I really was like, I am not a biking person, or at least I wasn't a biking person.

00:09:46:16 - 00:10:07:16
Maddy Novich
And so I felt like I might be able to communicate and resonate with people who also don't necessarily identify as a bike person, but as a mom or as a parent, as someone who just really values their time and needs, you know, all the tricks and trades of the world to try and get their time maximized and get from point A to point B.

00:10:07:16 - 00:10:33:23
Maddy Novich
And so I started angling the account. As you'll notice, it's lifestyle, right? It's about spending days with my kids. It's mostly bike, but it's also fashion and cooking and health living and and it's just like how we can, you know, sort of break through that you, you know what being a cyclist actually means and it can mean a number of different things, including being a full time working mom who has never been in Lycra, right, has never really rode a bike before.

00:10:33:23 - 00:10:40:08
Maddy Novich
Right? So I identify as a cyclist, and I was the last person who I thought would identify as a cyclist. Yeah.

00:10:40:10 - 00:11:02:10
John Simmerman
So you had mentioned the Netherlands was really where that that inspiration was born out of and through that empowerment of being able to take advantage of the bikes that were there at the house that you were staying in, and obviously a safe network and all ages and abilities network right outside the door. What city were you in at that point?

00:11:02:13 - 00:11:14:09
Maddy Novich
We were in Amsterdam, so we were in in in Amsterdam, in Leiden we've I mean, now we've traveled over the entire country. but we're generally based out of Amsterdam. Okay.

00:11:14:11 - 00:11:44:11
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Very good. And you, you'll appreciate this too, because you've been in other cities. You mentioned Leiden there. is that Amsterdam? Depending on where you're at, can be pretty intense. It's there's a lot of activity very similar to, to, to New York. So for some people, it could even be a little bit intimidating to ride a bike in that environment because the of the stream of, of of cyclists, people riding bikes, not really cyclists.

00:11:44:14 - 00:12:05:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, and that's I think that's a good, good thing for us to pause and point out is you, you went out of your way to say that I wasn't a cyclist. I'm not a cyclist. And the reason why that's important is because the that terminology comes up with an image in North American minds as to what a cyclist is.

00:12:05:14 - 00:12:32:02
John Simmerman
It tends to be, you mentioned like it tends to be somebody who's, you know, decked out in special clothing, wearing helmets, doing, you know, all of these things that are, you know, oh, that's my image. That's our image as a society is what a cyclist is versus just a person who is using a tool, a bike or a cargo bike to do things, to get things done, to get from point A to point B exactly.

00:12:32:02 - 00:12:48:18
Maddy Novich
And I think a, you know, an interesting way of thinking about this, you know, people who are just using a car every day, do they really identify themselves as like a driver? Right. It's just part of, you know, this is how I get around the city and I don't have to sort of I don't have to box myself into a particular label.

00:12:48:21 - 00:13:07:20
Maddy Novich
And so I think that's really important when we are trying to sort of break down the, the narrative of what it means to be a cyclist and say that it is actually, you know, can be more encompassing than just sport biking, right? It can be commuting, it can be urban living, and it can be, you know, parent runs, right.

00:13:07:20 - 00:13:22:08
Maddy Novich
Like that's that's basically 90% of my cargo bikes as I'm taking my kids from like point A to point B or going to the grocery, right, which is like the normal parent life. And so I think it's just a really important way to say that, you know, you don't have to you don't have to just be one way.

00:13:22:08 - 00:13:25:07
Maddy Novich
You can be a lot of different ways in terms of a biker.

00:13:25:09 - 00:13:47:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. A great example of that is, you know, and this is sort of the Danish approach and also the Dutch approach to is that, yeah, this is just a pragmatic tool and they tend to be very pragmatic people. And so it just makes sense to do this to, to ride a bike. Chris Bramlett with the Dutch Cycling Embassy refers to it as pedestrian.

00:13:47:04 - 00:14:04:24
John Simmerman
Plus it's just, you know, it's a little bit faster than, than walking. and, you know, in it they're no more likely to, you know, call themselves cyclists than they are or to call themselves selves vacuums if they use a vacuum.

00:14:04:26 - 00:14:20:28
Maddy Novich
Exactly that. Yeah, exactly. And I, I think that's a point. And actually, you know, you mentioned something that I think is something at the forefront of a lot of American minds is right. You know, the it was easy to bike in the Netherlands because they have the infrastructure there. Right. And so and you were saying it can be a little intense in Amsterdam.

00:14:21:01 - 00:14:47:03
Maddy Novich
But what is interesting is actually my nine year old is biking in Amsterdam and it's like it's can be very intense until you actually go and sort of participate in it. And once you participate in it, just like and when you're biking here in New York City or in many other places that you once you've had that experience of biking and seeing what it's like, the actual experience becomes less scary and more manageable, and you become more confident.

00:14:47:05 - 00:15:14:24
Maddy Novich
But, you know, going back to the idea that infrastructure, which of course, infrastructure is really important, New York City's infrastructure is growing and changing. And so we actually have a lot of great infrastructure. We also have, which is very surprising to a lot of people who don't live here. Many of our streets are very quiet. Right? So like our cross paths, you know, east west are actually fairly quiet and, you know, very safe to just take over the entire lane and get from point A to point B.

00:15:14:26 - 00:15:35:25
Maddy Novich
And so I think that can be, you know, a very surprising factor for many people who don't realize that, you know, biking in New York City is actually not only fun, but it's actually very safe. And, you know, no, I'm not, you know, mixing with traffic in Times Square all the time. Right? We're we're getting down, you know, the West Side Highway, which is this amazing protected bike lane or going through Central Park, which is, you know, car free.

00:15:35:25 - 00:15:53:22
Maddy Novich
So and the, the, West side, Central Park, West bike lane, which is new. So there's a lot actually a lot of biking now that I think is, you know, can be very surprising. And so it gives me hope that if New York can do it, then hopefully other parts of America can do it. And we can continue to grow and advocate for safer biking paths.

00:15:53:24 - 00:16:22:23
John Simmerman
You know, and I'm glad you mentioned that too, because this particular image that we're looking at has you posing, with the recent Mueller, cargo bike, you know, on a quieter street. Exactly. Posed up in the middle of the street. And it brings up the point about the Dutch cycling network, is that about 60 to 70% of a typical Dutch cycling network in most of the cities is actually some form of shared space, just like what we're looking at right here.

00:16:22:25 - 00:16:49:10
John Simmerman
the feet, straights and other, the air, which are the, the local access streets, tend to be paved in brick and have no bicycling infrastructure per se, but there's slow speed, low volume zones where people are sharing space. And that becomes a just the way that you get around your community and then on the busier streets than they do have protected and separated infrastructure.

00:16:49:10 - 00:17:08:10
John Simmerman
And the, feets, the feets pods, the cycle paths in and, in bike lanes and protected bike lanes, which are so famous. And most people think of that as the Dutch cycling network. But in reality, the vast majority of the network is some form of shared space, just like what we're looking at here.

00:17:08:12 - 00:17:35:15
Maddy Novich
Absolutely. And we actually when we were in the Netherlands, we we went through a bunch of those different shared spaces and separated spaces. I think the main difference that they have there and we have here is there is cultural acceptance of these zone spaces, and we aren't there yet. Right. So we have a very insular car culture where car drivers feel that they have the right of way and that they are allowed to be as fast or as aggressive as they want to be.

00:17:35:15 - 00:17:51:29
Maddy Novich
And they aren't thinking necessarily about the shared space. And I'm hoping that, you know, with more cyclists and more visual presence of people on bikes, initiate spaces that we can begin to shift that cultural narrative because it's, you know, we need it, I think.

00:17:52:01 - 00:18:12:29
John Simmerman
Well, and I think that as we start to see more and more images of, you know, of families being out, be able to get there and I'm going to bring your your family shot back up on screen here. I mean, this this is part of how we change that cultural narrative of, you know, who the streets are for.

00:18:12:29 - 00:18:39:26
John Simmerman
You know, I've got my mug. This is streets are for people because it's true. Streets really are for people. They were for people, you know, for thousands of years until the interloper, the automobile came along. And so I think that reinforcing the work that you're doing as an influencer and trying to help change, enhance awareness and maybe change minds as to what our streets are for, these are the types of things that really help move that.

00:18:40:00 - 00:18:56:29
John Simmerman
You know, when we talk about cultural shifts, this is how we do it. And that's my background is as a health promotion professional and looking at behavior change. And that's how we create what I call culture of activity is by normalizing what we see on screen.

00:18:57:01 - 00:19:15:17
Maddy Novich
Exactly. And what's actually very interesting is about this picture, which I want to point out is this street that's behind me that you kind of see on the cars facing forward. That's actually one of the very few close streets in, in Harlem, or we should say open streets where there is a barrier. And unless you live there, you're not really allowed to drive down this street, which is why we are there taking pictures.

00:19:15:19 - 00:19:41:15
Maddy Novich
And this street is really special in New York City because it turns into it's the source of all of our or many holiday, activities and outdoor, you know, street fairs, things like that. Because this particular street is very special in Harlem. But, you know, and then me being out there, I try to be out there on my bike sort of showing people, because in New York it's a very unusual thing still.

00:19:41:18 - 00:20:04:05
Maddy Novich
And people are always stopping and asking questions. And I'm going to share some video, with you about people's reactions when they see us on these bikes. And it's really interesting. and actually there's a, one of my, latest posts that I did, one of these real feeds just showed New Yorkers responses. And it's always smiles and, you know, thumbs up or asking questions.

00:20:04:05 - 00:20:25:20
Maddy Novich
And we want to be having those questions asked so that we can give the answers of how amazing these bikes are. These are, and how they can truly transform people's lives and make it a really amazing way. But also, of course, all of the residual benefits of exercise, mental health, cost savings and, you know, better is obviously better for our environment than the car.

00:20:25:20 - 00:20:46:14
Maddy Novich
And, you know, it's one of these things that I love being out in the streets with these bikes because especially in New York and most and many other places around America, their conversation starters. And that's, as you said, that's I think how we change this, this narrative is the more conversation starters we can get on the streets, I think the better we are going to have, you know, in terms of the number of conversations that we have.

00:20:46:14 - 00:20:48:19
Maddy Novich
And that's, I think, really important.

00:20:48:22 - 00:21:20:05
John Simmerman
What what I love about you as a, as an influencer and a content creator is that you are influencing people and engaging with people not only online but also out on the streets. And that's a core part of of the content that you're creating is that it's also in IRL, in real life out there. so I will let's get over to that recent post that you did that you said that you had some and I've turned the volume up on the video so we can, activate that.

00:21:20:08 - 00:21:25:12
John Simmerman
and before we do that, I just want to I'm like, oh, a bunch by another, a Texas company.

00:21:25:16 - 00:21:27:15
Maddy Novich
That's exactly right. Yeah, that's.

00:21:27:17 - 00:21:28:25
John Simmerman
In Texas.

00:21:28:27 - 00:21:32:29
Maddy Novich
Four in my collection. Wow. So I'm like.

00:21:33:01 - 00:21:34:05
John Simmerman
Very, very cool.

00:21:34:06 - 00:21:56:28
Maddy Novich
Yeah, it's really fun. Yeah. It's a it's been really fun. I think, you know, part of this is actually I work with a lot of different brands because it's not just about, you know, me showcasing sort of cargo bikes as a lifestyle, but also helping people who are cargo bike curious find the right bike for themselves. So I don't ever work exclusively with one brand because that, I think, defeats what it is, you know, to be a cargo bike influencer.

00:21:57:00 - 00:22:12:12
Maddy Novich
So this is just a day in the life. But if you scroll down a little bit, I'm going to show you. You will see there's a post. I think this is actually we could go through some of this, which I think is interesting, where the other one was me being a professional and what it looks like to be a cyclist.

00:22:12:12 - 00:22:39:25
Maddy Novich
So, this one, I started to just remind people that it's not, you know, this is biking in the Netherlands. This has had to scale, which is this a beautiful park right outside of Amsterdam, but also New York City can be really beautiful, and it's not all bad. So I want to make sure that we're controlling the narrative in terms of, you know, sure, there's a lot of elements of biking in New York City that are, you know, horrible and annoying, but there's also a lot of parts where it's really fun to bike in New York City.

00:22:39:25 - 00:23:08:18
Maddy Novich
And so keep going, and I'm going to go, it's it's coming up. that one more, one more. I think it's right before this one. Oh, no. This one. Security. this, this this actually highlights some of the challenges we face, which is we don't have great separated infrastructure. And so I am constantly showcasing, you know, more as a message for generating awareness that we need separated and protected bike lanes, because if we don't protect them, this is what happens.

00:23:08:18 - 00:23:12:09
Maddy Novich
And this is this neighborhood. It always looks like this.

00:23:12:11 - 00:23:33:13
John Simmerman
And I like that too, because you're not just glossing over things and only showing the good stuff, right? You know, you're you are being real about the fact that, yeah, we do have streets that need to be taken care of. And it's not all the, the quiet street, the, you know, that we posed in front of there's challenges out there.

00:23:33:13 - 00:23:36:00
John Simmerman
And so there's still a lot of work yet to be done.

00:23:36:02 - 00:23:54:20
Maddy Novich
So absolutely, what's good and what's interesting is those are posts of mine are the ones that do that do really, really well. I wouldn't say the best, but they really well because they really touched a nerve. And I think that, you know, not having, you know, just using the voice to, to showcase that, like, we need these changes too.

00:23:54:23 - 00:24:13:11
Maddy Novich
So this actually right before this one, if you go down one more is the is the real that I wanted to show you about what it's like with New Yorkers. oh. Nope. Sorry. One more, one more. yeah. Yeah. Here we go. This is how New York. But this is what happens every time we go out.

00:24:13:13 - 00:24:24:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. Talk a little bit about this experience. You just mentioned that this one received a lot of views. And this is really what it's all about. The engagement that's happening out on the street too.

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:51:17
Maddy Novich
Absolutely. So this I put this together after we spent, Earth Day biking around upper Manhattan. And we didn't know any of these people. Right. So these are all strangers. But there's something about these bikes and the way that we carry our kids that is inherently interesting and thought provoking, and people become really friendly. So, like, you know, this guy just came over and he just wanted to say hi to our kids and like, you know, high five us for having our kids out and bikes.

00:24:51:17 - 00:25:07:24
Maddy Novich
Right? And, you know, you can just sort of see the curiosity heads turn all the time. Right. And I, you know, I wish I had more, cameras just set up all the time because people are like, that's so cool. Wow. Where'd you get that? You know, can I go for a ride? You know, all these kinds of things.

00:25:08:01 - 00:25:28:03
Maddy Novich
And this is just a this is just a normal experience of what I. What I have in New York City. And so, you know, the people always come up and stop and inspect. They ask questions, and then it's also very common for people to be like, hey, can I have them? Right? I mean, they're not serious, but of course they could have a ride because that's the kind.

00:25:28:05 - 00:25:48:26
Maddy Novich
But that's a very normal, normalized experience for us. And I just love, you know, especially with the bunch, that I get a lot of attention because it is so cute and charming and, you know, people are like, where's the ice cream? Right? They think of it as like, you know, it's just a very there's a lot of fun about, you know, these kinds of bikes.

00:25:48:29 - 00:26:08:05
Maddy Novich
and so I just, I love having these interactions and engagements with the people around me. And that, I think, is a one thing that's really special about a bike in these cities is that you and your passengers, my children, are so engaged with the environment around them. They're talking about what they're seeing. They're saying hi to people.

00:26:08:05 - 00:26:20:25
Maddy Novich
They're, you know, pointing out observations that you wouldn't necessarily have on the subway or in a car. And I think that's, you know, really important component about biking that is distinctly unique.

00:26:20:27 - 00:26:41:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I noticed that you do have, you know, quite a few, posts on here where you are, you know, going over fashion stuff and I think it's important to, to point out is that. Yeah. I mean, you're dressing for your destination. You're not dressing for, quote unquote, riding a bike.

00:26:41:05 - 00:27:07:19
Maddy Novich
Exactly. And I think that that is a point of friction for a lot of people. The idea that they don't think that they can be dressed for the day and go out and use the bike as their means of transport. And so, you know, I really love fashion. It's a passion of mine and always has been. And I wanted to spend time focusing on the fact that you can be really stylish and you can wear what you like and still use a bike no matter the weather, right?

00:27:07:19 - 00:27:24:02
Maddy Novich
So I'll also bike look like that and then bike in inclement weather as well. So, you know, it's just about having the right gear. It's about showcasing again that if I can do it, I think that most people can do it. And so, you know, I've been I've been really enjoying that component of it as this like lifestyle.

00:27:24:05 - 00:27:24:24
Maddy Novich
Yeah.

00:27:24:26 - 00:27:50:28
John Simmerman
And again we're back to the this, you know, sort of less than positive experience. And really the message here is, you know, honing in on what we mean when we talk about an all ages and abilities bike lane. and, and really making the point that if it's just a piece of paint or if it's just a strip of paint, it's not going to be, you know, respected by the drivers necessarily.

00:27:51:01 - 00:28:24:25
John Simmerman
And so that brings us back to the discussion we were having of the difference between shared space and, you know, actual bike lanes where you have physical separation and protection, where you're away from motor vehicles, you of parked as well as, as, as driving. and so I appreciate that you put this together. talk a little bit about some of the negative reactions that you do get, because I know that it's impossible not to get some negative, reactions from the motoring public.

00:28:24:27 - 00:28:46:01
John Simmerman
as Ian Walker says, he calls it motor normativity or car brain that people have, so we can't just be all positive, positive, positive, just like this, this bike lane here. do you get people who are responding and saying, you know, getting on your case and saying, why are you doing this.

00:28:46:03 - 00:29:14:21
Maddy Novich
All the time? I get carbon on my feet all the time. And I think that's, you know, it is something that you hear because, you know, I think, again, a lot of Americans are car centric. Folks can't understand how the bike could be, you know, just as effective and efficient as a car. And when they see things like paint as an infrastructure, what's interesting is they they think it's like an attack on their on their cars and their car infrastructure.

00:29:14:28 - 00:29:33:27
Maddy Novich
But what I think is a really interesting and important way to frame it is that they hate the paint infrastructure as much as we do, and so it should actually be a combined effort, because if they're in the, the, the, the bike lane, because they are allowed to be in the bike lane, there's nothing stopping them from the bike lane.

00:29:34:04 - 00:29:55:01
Maddy Novich
Then we go into traffic and we slow everything down, which drivers hate. So, you know, I think part of it is, you know, that they you know, it feels very polarizing where it really shouldn't be polarizing. And, you know, obviously navigating the the carbon, the questions like, you know, why do you even bike go get a car. And it's like, well, no, that's not that's not the point.

00:29:55:01 - 00:30:20:00
Maddy Novich
I'm not trying to say I'm antique car because they're, you know, as any of the urbanists or any of these, you know, organizations will tell you we need cars in some capacity. We just don't need the level of individualized car ownership and car usage that we have. So it's not about like us versus them. It's like, let's try and figure out a way where we can actually be our most efficient selves on both sides.

00:30:20:00 - 00:30:35:26
Maddy Novich
Right. And so I you know, I do deal with that. You know, I'm also very like, you know, my way of responding to them is just take what I want them to have said and then like, respond to that. So I have comments where people are like, you know, we should never have, you know, bikes in the, in the, in the street.

00:30:35:26 - 00:30:54:03
Maddy Novich
And I'll be like, you're so right. We really need separate space. Like a I'm so glad you brought that up. And like the car brains like, yeah, they hate that. But if you just keep responding in the way that you like, want them to have said something, I think it's a very interesting way to not only drive engagement because, you know, the algorithm loves when people comment.

00:30:54:03 - 00:31:08:15
Maddy Novich
So I'm just like, great. I'm just going to sort of, you know, throw some, you know, kerosene on that fire and let them keep responding. And they're never going to get the response from me that they want, which is, you know, you know, you know, trying to engage in a fight. I'm always going to try and angle this is like, you're so right.

00:31:08:15 - 00:31:25:12
Maddy Novich
We need to work together. We shouldn't be sharing spaces. What have you done lately to help make sure that, you know, we can do that, you know, stuff like that. And about turning it on there, you know, turning it around, which is fun. And then, of course, I have a lot of cyclist followers who that attack the car brains, which is always very entertaining to say.

00:31:25:13 - 00:31:27:09
Maddy Novich
So yeah. Yeah.

00:31:27:12 - 00:31:49:01
John Simmerman
so we're actually looking at a very important, post that you have here, which is really looking at, you know, the pragmatic, realities of having to store cargo bikes. You have a very interesting, strategy that you employ, walk us through how you make sure that you don't lose your precious cargo bikes.

00:31:49:03 - 00:32:15:11
Maddy Novich
Well, I can't say for sure I'll never lose one, but, I do have a PhD in criminal justice. And so I took a very evidence based approach about how to keep my bike safe. and so, you know, one thing that people really like to talk about is something called routine activities theory, which is the idea of bad bike theft, which is typically a crime of opportunity, occurs when you have a motivated, motivated offender, a suitable target and lack of capable guardianship.

00:32:15:11 - 00:32:35:17
Maddy Novich
And basically the suitable target is obviously the bike. And so when it's exposed, when it has insufficient locks, when it is out all the time, or, left unattended, that can be making it, a suitable target. And so I, I try to combat that by having really good locks, of course. And my secret weapon really is the motorcycle cover.

00:32:35:20 - 00:33:01:20
Maddy Novich
and what's interesting about that is it hides it in plain sight. And so in New York City, you will see covered things like this all the time. And so I was like, well, I'll just hide my bikes under these covers and no one really will mess with them because they're so ubiquitous that they become contextually assimilated. So I understanding that so I always keep it covered whenever I'm, you know, at home, because I don't want people to find where they're stored.

00:33:01:20 - 00:33:21:29
Maddy Novich
And I think that's really important. And when I'm out, I always keep it really well lit. I put them where there's lots of foot traffic just to as best as I can. Of course they're insured. Of course I have GPS trackers on all of them. But, you know, I do take a very, you know, criminal justice approach to, to trying to minimize it.

00:33:21:29 - 00:33:37:13
Maddy Novich
And my husband's bike actually did get stolen. And, he's like, well, I didn't follow any of your advice. And I said, no, you didn't. So, you know, I'm not surprised. I mean, I'm sorry that your bike got stolen, but I'm not surprised it got stolen because there were certainly things that I would not have advised that you do.

00:33:37:13 - 00:33:46:04
Maddy Novich
And, you know, we actually have, footage of the theft, and one of the rails which we can visit at another time.

00:33:46:07 - 00:34:09:26
John Simmerman
But I do want to give some love here to oney. because, you know, this is another thing that cities can start to look at is upping their game in terms of providing better bike infrastructure, because there is better bike infrastructure out there. That is possible. And so only and the only pod is, is an example of, you know, being able for cities.

00:34:09:26 - 00:34:38:02
John Simmerman
And I believe that they just signed a contract with, Minneapolis where they're going to be, you know, installing a whole bunch of, very creative installations for activating the street space as well as providing secure parking opportunities, out on our streets. And so this is just one of, you know, several companies that I know of globally that are doing some really, really cool, creative stuff.

00:34:38:04 - 00:34:59:25
John Simmerman
that kind of helps. And it kind of gets to some of your points that you were just talking about. Is it it helps, you know, deal with the the crime of opportunity. You're putting some friction in place, and in putting the bikes, you know, undercover. So they're not obviously just sitting there waiting for somebody to come along and, and, take advantage of them.

00:34:59:27 - 00:35:14:08
Maddy Novich
Absolutely. And that's a very big point of friction, again, for people to even buy a bike from the beginning is they're very concerned about their bikes getting stolen. And so in New York, it's very common to have some of the smaller bikes or the long tail bikes. but, you know, that isn't always the best bike for people, right?

00:35:14:08 - 00:35:33:28
Maddy Novich
As they might need the front loader. So part of this is, of course, you know, giving strategies of how you can best store a front loading bike outside. But also like the knee pads, you're right, is to say. And I've seen, you know, because I'm very good friends with one of them, I have seen some of their designs of the the amazing way that they can incorporate both bike parking and public space.

00:35:33:28 - 00:35:57:00
Maddy Novich
And so, you know, having safe biking infrastructure and safe biking parking only encourages people to say, I'm going to go visit this space, right. And they have like cargo bike lockers, which I think is really interesting, and corrals that can handle the size of cargo bikes, which is then, of course, encouraging families to show up to these places where they may not, you know, have previously thought site to go to.

00:35:57:02 - 00:36:25:19
Maddy Novich
And so we need the UN has been doing some designs where they're coupling the seating, the outdoor seating and, plaza style recreation being then encased on the sides with the, with the bike parking. And it's really interesting and really a no brainer, especially in places like New York City, right, where we we should just be encouraging people to bike all the time and also encouraging people to come and spend disposable income right, at some of these stores.

00:36:25:19 - 00:36:33:06
Maddy Novich
Right. And so how do we do that? We we have to make it as low friction as possible and get people on these bikes and be able to put them somewhere safely.

00:36:33:09 - 00:36:50:25
John Simmerman
Yeah. And and specifically like a lot of these bikes or are quite expensive, but they also have the need for charging. And so that's another advantage that the, the system has is they are starting to integrate, you know, e-bike charging, facilities as part of those too. So kind of.

00:36:50:27 - 00:37:05:27
Maddy Novich
Yes, absolutely. And it's definitely can be a concern. You know, of course, some bikes like the recently they have built in like double batteries, which, you know, it's less. But you know, most time people have one battery. And so, you know, they might not necessarily want to go somewhere, you know, because they're afraid of taking the long trip.

00:37:06:01 - 00:37:25:27
Maddy Novich
But if, it's going to be providing some battery charging, I think that's amazing. Yeah. So this is, one of our few pedestrianized places in, in New York City, and I actually had a follower who has who's not been to New York and, you know, was very interested request that I make this video of what it was like going down these, pedestrianized areas down Broadway.

00:37:25:27 - 00:37:27:10
Maddy Novich
And it's amazing.

00:37:27:12 - 00:37:54:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. So I'm always curious. I mean, I'm a health promotion professional. I've been in the in the game for going on 35 years now. and, about a decade ago, I started storytelling and started, you know, the YouTube channel, about five years ago. Four years ago. and so I had to kind of teach myself a whole new game content creation and doing, you know, podcast interviews and all this kind of stuff.

00:37:54:29 - 00:38:11:02
John Simmerman
What's that been like for you? Kind of learning new skills of of filming and foot photography and, and, you know, shifting gears, pardon the pun, to becoming a, an advocate and, you know, bicycle, influencer.

00:38:11:04 - 00:38:32:22
Maddy Novich
You know, that's a really good question. I am not super high tech. So it's been a real challenge in some ways. But having, like, great equipment makes it very, very easy. And, you know, like, this is shot with an Insta360 and the invisible selfie stick. So people ask me all the time, do you have a drone? And I'm like, no, I just literally have like this pole that like goes up and then I'm just holding it because it's really narrow.

00:38:32:22 - 00:38:50:25
Maddy Novich
So I can just kind of hold it. and then learning how to edit because I do all of this myself in between, you know, screaming kids. And like my son, we ride to work or, you know, I don't really, you know, it's not a full time job. This is like a 20% project for me. And so it's definitely about how to create content and learn.

00:38:50:26 - 00:39:07:19
Maddy Novich
You know, the cameras. And so one thing I do is I invest in good cameras. Right? I have the iPhone 14 Pro, I I'll have the Insta360 in the selfie stick to try and make it really, really easy to to create good content really quickly because I think there's, you know, the a lot of the content that comes out on Instagram is very ephemeral.

00:39:07:19 - 00:39:26:21
Maddy Novich
And so I don't think it's important. I think it's very important to Timebox how much time I'm spending on creating these things. And then just I keep pushing stuff out. And so more, and again, I think my followers are particularly keen on the messaging, more so than, you know, how you have something that.

00:39:26:23 - 00:39:29:15
John Simmerman
You don't have to be a documentary film producer.

00:39:29:19 - 00:39:30:00
Maddy Novich
Yeah.

00:39:30:02 - 00:39:47:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. The cinematographer. Yes. Yeah, yeah. What haven't we covered that you think the audience here, at the Active Towns YouTube channel and and podcast, really needs to hear about your efforts and and what you're trying to achieve.

00:39:47:25 - 00:40:10:21
Maddy Novich
Oh, that's a good one. What do they need to know? I think that we can have everyday heroes fighting for change. And, you know, it's about just getting us out, you know, getting everybody out there to just try things and try things that are interesting, like, you know, if any of your fellow is, are cargo bike curious? I do get the question.

00:40:10:21 - 00:40:27:21
Maddy Novich
All right. Well, how do I get started? And I want to answer that by saying you are not alone and say the best way to get started is to one find a friend. You know, I'm guarantee that if you are cargo by curious, it means that you've seen somebody in your neighborhood who's on a cargo bike. Go talk to them.

00:40:27:21 - 00:40:49:02
Maddy Novich
Right. So number one is just ask questions. Go learn about what they do, how much you know, how much they have learned best practices in terms of cargo biking. And that's that start number one. Step number two is trying out different bikes right. See which one feels right. Which again, I've been very specific. I'm not working specifically with one brand because I want to be able to provide comparisons.

00:40:49:02 - 00:41:23:19
Maddy Novich
But you'll see I have a bunch of comparisons of two wheels versus trike, long tail, which is where the kids sit in fat versus the the front loaders and try and really give honest and, biased opinions about what, you know, what you can expect when writing these different types of bikes. And so anyone who's hyper bike curious, who wants to learn really needs to get on the bikes to see what it feels like and then, you know, ask questions, you know, find Facebook people, Instagram people to look for, for inspiration of how to navigate things like biking in the rain, biking in the snow.

00:41:23:21 - 00:41:43:08
Maddy Novich
this has been done for a long time, and I think that you don't have to reinvent the wheel and try and figure it out on your own. And so that's something that I think is really important is for anybody who's thinking about it. Contact me. You're more than welcome to reach out to me, contact a friend and, you know, begin asking those questions to how best get you on that journey.

00:41:43:11 - 00:41:44:01
Maddy Novich
Yeah.

00:41:44:03 - 00:41:48:26
John Simmerman
And you do have a newsletter. Do you call it a newsletter?

00:41:48:28 - 00:42:08:11
Maddy Novich
It's a newsletter. Yes, I do have a newsletter. So it's just cargo bike mama.com and I send out anything. Then you know you can. This is a 20% project so I don't have a set dedicated topic. But it's anything that I think, you know, my followers would like to know about or learn about, or a particularly interesting post that I've done.

00:42:08:11 - 00:42:24:27
Maddy Novich
So most recently I did, a post on the comparisons between the trike and the, front loader. And so I'm probably going to be putting that in the newsletter. I also get lots of promo codes, and I work with great brands, so I like to send those out because people are always looking for, bike gear recommendations.

00:42:24:27 - 00:42:42:07
Maddy Novich
And so I'll send those out and then, you know, there's a whole health and wellness component to cargo biking, you know, just the idea of the mental health support and the physical health that you get when you are biking versus sitting sedentary in a car, you know, and this is something that people are very they push back a lot about.

00:42:42:07 - 00:43:03:16
Maddy Novich
They're like, oh, but you know, you're you're cheating on an e-bike. And first of all, I'm like, I saw one of my one of the people I followed, they're like, well, if you think I'm cheating on the e-bike, let me tell you about the car. Right. So Shannon Shannon said that on Instagram is really great. And, you know, and so I like to talk about, you know, health and wellness components.

00:43:03:16 - 00:43:22:02
Maddy Novich
I think I, you know, and I like to just talk about, you know, kind of wrestling even recipes, something very similar because I'm a full time working mom. Right? I don't have a ton of time to do a lot of food, been very, like, conscientious about what I feed and what I feed my kids. And so it really, I think cargo biking isn't just it's it really is about a lifestyle.

00:43:22:04 - 00:43:34:24
Maddy Novich
And so the newsletter is about the lifestyle. So sign up for my newsletter, follow me on Instagram, reach out if you've got questions. You know I'm very approachable and I really love helping people. And this, you know, this, this path of discovery, you know?

00:43:34:26 - 00:43:41:15
John Simmerman
So I have a question for you. So I am not a parent. You are a parent. You've you've got three.

00:43:41:18 - 00:43:42:06
Maddy Novich
I have three.

00:43:42:10 - 00:43:47:27
John Simmerman
Three, three. What do they prefer the front or the back.

00:43:47:29 - 00:44:07:12
Maddy Novich
the that's a good question. Most of the time they prefer the front. They really enjoy, front loading cargo bikes. Why? Because when the weather gets inclement, they always are underneath a cover, so they're never outside in the elements. Then they also they'll sit in this, like, inside, you know, you have to in the, in this in the back.

00:44:07:12 - 00:44:18:03
Maddy Novich
And then like one of the front, they're just like chatting and hanging out. So they really love you know, my kids really love being on the inside, in the front, which I think is really, which is really funny and like.

00:44:18:05 - 00:44:22:19
John Simmerman
Is what this clip is right here, inclement weather. And then boom, you've got the cover there.

00:44:22:21 - 00:44:38:20
Maddy Novich
Exactly. And in the winter, I think the cover makes a lot of difference, right? Because, you know, all my kids just complain right? When the moment, you know, moment there's something to complain about. My kids love to complain. So. And you know, you're cutting down the wind. You're cutting down the, you know, the snow, that kind of stuff, which makes it much better.

00:44:38:27 - 00:45:00:15
Maddy Novich
And, you know, I think, you know, you mentioned that you're not a parent, but a cargo biking isn't just for parents, right? It's a really great car alternative to carrying groceries to carrying furniture, gardening, whatever it is that you might like, want to be carrying, I think is a very it's I think it's also very important that, you know, cargo bikes aren't just for are just for families.

00:45:00:15 - 00:45:05:29
Maddy Novich
They're also for normal, everyday people who just want to carry furniture, for example, a piano.

00:45:06:01 - 00:45:06:27
John Simmerman
Yes.

00:45:07:00 - 00:45:20:05
Maddy Novich
Yes, I know dresser. I mean, I have my mom getting carried around donations, you know, bookshelves. Like we just carry everything in these, in these bikes and they're, you know, they're tanks. So, you know, they're not just limited to families. Yeah.

00:45:20:08 - 00:45:54:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. In fact, that's exactly, what I have is I have the turn GSD. And the reason I went with that one is, a it was available. It was, it was at my local bike shop here and and I, I tried to lean towards brands that I know are, using good equipment. I, you know, I, I'm a huge fan of the Bosch, system ebike system, and I've had, I've actually featured, the North American, Joslin van de Velde, from, from Bosch here on the channel.

00:45:54:13 - 00:46:27:00
John Simmerman
And so, I decided to get the, the, the, the turn GSD and the same thing. Yeah. It's fantastic for carrying the groceries especially, you know, getting up a very, very steep hill up to our neighborhood here. yes. I could use just a normal analog bike, but, you know, it's it's again, it's a car replacement. It it gives me, you know, we share one car, you know, and I share one car, and we hardly ever use it, which is great, because the darn thing is ancient.

00:46:27:02 - 00:46:34:15
John Simmerman
It came with us from Hawaii. And so, you know, we're able to nurse it along because we don't have to use it very frequently.

00:46:34:18 - 00:46:35:19
Maddy Novich
And so. Absolutely.

00:46:35:19 - 00:46:45:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, I think so. We're not car haters. You know, we just yeah. In fact we, we we love our little a little Honda Element and we want to keep it around. We don't want to have to replace it.

00:46:45:21 - 00:47:05:25
Maddy Novich
So we, we and I think that's very I think vast majority of Americans can go into a car. A light style lifestyle doesn't have to be car free. And I think that's a very important point, is that people are like, oh, well, if I go cargo bike, I don't, you know, why would I do that? I have my car and it's like, well, you know, research shows that actually most of our trips are between 1 to 3 miles, right.

00:47:05:25 - 00:47:20:12
Maddy Novich
So which in many cases can be done better and more efficiently and more cost effectively on a bike than on a car. But there are going to be times when you need your little Honda, right? And so like it makes sense to keep it and supplement your life with these bikes. And you know, I love that you brought up Bosch.

00:47:20:13 - 00:47:54:05
Maddy Novich
I work very closely with Bosch, because I really also believe in their products and the quality of their motors and their batteries. And that's something that I think is an important, decision component is when you think about what you're bringing into your home and what you're charging, you know, Bosch, really, you know, sets one of the gold standards in terms of keeping things up to, you all standard and, you know, I think that's a very important and the reliability of those of those bikes, I completely agree with and, you know, 2 or 3 of my bikes of Bosch systems and I agree.

00:47:54:07 - 00:48:00:04
John Simmerman
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, this has been so much fun. Manny.

00:48:00:06 - 00:48:02:02
Maddy Novich
Yeah. Me too. I really enjoyed it.

00:48:02:08 - 00:48:10:22
John Simmerman
And now here's here's a question for you before we sign off is, so Instagram is your main platform on social media, correct?

00:48:10:24 - 00:48:11:15
Maddy Novich
Correct.

00:48:11:17 - 00:48:31:19
John Simmerman
And then we've got the newsletter and we just had that up. So people you can you can go over here to the, to the website and and sign up for the newsletter. Boom. Here it is again. Again that's cargo bike mama.com. And I'm already subscribed. So I am getting your your newsletter. And I love it because you've got some really neat little stories along the way.

00:48:31:19 - 00:48:51:28
John Simmerman
And then you do have your promos there for some of the products that you, are or, you know, what is that? What do you what do you call that? Deep wrap it. You know, whatever affiliated with. There you go. So that's great. any any interest in coming over to YouTube?

00:48:52:01 - 00:48:56:02
Maddy Novich
yes, I get that question a lot.

00:48:56:08 - 00:49:10:21
John Simmerman
Will let me know if you do decide to come join us here at the YouTube family. I'd be happy to, you know, provide guidance. And, you know, from what little bit I have learned in the last four years of diving into this. So I'm a newbie, but yeah.

00:49:10:23 - 00:49:29:23
Maddy Novich
Yeah. So yes, I, you know, I was on shifters channel a little bit, a little while ago, Tom Babin out of Canada. and I get after I started doing that collab, people have asked me, they're like, you should do YouTube. You would be great. And I love it. I will get there. I have very, you know, limited time, unfortunately.

00:49:29:23 - 00:49:51:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. I mean, you're very, very busy, so yeah, I it I would say continue doing what you're doing. You if you get to a point where you can get some additional help so that you're not because you're a single operator, I'm a single operator. And for me it's for full time. So I'm doing the seven days a week and, yeah, you, you know how busy you really are.

00:49:51:24 - 00:50:13:09
John Simmerman
But yeah, I could totally see that this would resonate well here within the YouTube family. And I have found, the family just to be, you know, incredibly welcoming. everyone from, you know, from, you know, our good friend, Clarence Akerson was treat films, as well as, do you know, propel Chris.

00:50:13:11 - 00:50:25:02
Maddy Novich
Of course, the virus. I'm on a couple of Chris's videos, and, I see him when I can when it comes to town. And. Yes, very close with Chris.

00:50:25:04 - 00:50:45:02
John Simmerman
Yeah. And so again, that's we're talking about Chris Nulty again with Propel Bikes another past guest here on the podcast as well. But he also has he and Tara have a wonderful YouTube channel. And they're doing some great stuff and they're sort of shifting gears and going into a new phase of that channel. but yeah, it's just a really welcoming family.

00:50:45:02 - 00:50:50:27
John Simmerman
I find, here on YouTube. So we we wanted to welcome you.

00:50:51:00 - 00:51:05:00
Maddy Novich
I don't get it's it's not. And you know what it is? It's definitely been on my radar because so much of what I do, so visual that it would make sense. Yeah. And more longstanding than, you know, again, the ephemeral nature of Instagram, which, you know, a lot of effort it and then it's it's there but it's hard to find.

00:51:05:00 - 00:51:07:00
Maddy Novich
Right. So yeah. Yeah.

00:51:07:06 - 00:51:41:07
John Simmerman
Well and I have to say this, you know, for my long suffering, podcast listeners, yes, I did start as an audio only podcast. And I do appreciate you all, for tuning in each week. I know that you, are probably listening to this on your, your walk around the neighborhood or maybe a drive, I don't know, but, I really do appreciate you all tuning in as well and tolerating the fact that we're, we are talking about visuals on screen here, and, so, be sure to tune in to the, the YouTube version of it, the video of it.

00:51:41:09 - 00:51:48:23
John Simmerman
if you're kind of wondering what it was we were talking about. And again, Matty, thank you so much for joining me on the active Tones podcast.

00:51:48:26 - 00:51:50:17
Maddy Novich
Thank you so much for having me.

00:51:50:19 - 00:52:09:00
John Simmerman
He thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Marinovich. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend and if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notification bell and be sure to follow, Matty over on Instagram.

00:52:09:04 - 00:52:25:28
John Simmerman
That is Capo Bike Mama. And if you're enjoying this content here on the Active Tennis Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. It's easy to do just head on over to active towns, Georgie and then navigate up to the support tab. I can thank you so much for tuning in. I really do appreciate it.

00:52:25:28 - 00:52:49:24
John Simmerman
And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks! As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Town store. Every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

00:52:49:26 - 00:52:51:03
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.