Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:01
Lucy Maloney
That's what all our flights come down to is the convenience of drivers versus the physical safety of people outside cars. And we know that allocating two lanes to two cars is going to increase our chances of having car crashes. So I don't know the facts every now sidebar, but the culture war is difficult to fight.

00:00:25:04 - 00:00:48:09
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Lucy Maloney from Vancouver, British Columbia. We are going to be talking about some of the activities that she is involved with there in that area related to Vision Zero, Safer Streets and, you know, creating more places for people to ride their bikes in the city and in Stanley Park.

00:00:48:09 - 00:01:02:02
John Simmerman
It is a good one. And let's get right to it with Lucy. Lucy Maloney, it is so wonderful to have you on the Active Tell US podcast. Welcome.

00:01:02:04 - 00:01:03:22
Lucy Maloney
Thank you for having me.

00:01:03:25 - 00:01:10:09
John Simmerman
So, Lucy, I want to just take a moment to tell everybody who you are. Who is Lucy?

00:01:10:12 - 00:01:38:11
Lucy Maloney
Well, I am an Australian person who has been traveling around the world with my family for the last 15 or 20 years. I originally grew up in Melbourne, Australia, and I went to university and became a lawyer and one of my lawyer jobs was in-house at the Environment Protection Authority in Melbourne, in Victoria, Australia, and I then started moving around.

00:01:38:12 - 00:01:48:09
Lucy Maloney
I moved to Western Australia, Singapore, Santiago, Chile and for the last six years I've been living here in Vancouver, Canada.

00:01:48:11 - 00:02:06:18
John Simmerman
Fantastic, Fantastic. Now you and I have never met each other, but we follow each other out on Twitter, so X or whatever we want to call it these days and, and you, you go by the tagline.

00:02:06:20 - 00:02:40:00
Lucy Maloney
Lucy in Canada. And I think that's a reflection of my international viewpoint and the fact that when I was using Twitter in other places, I'd never really know where people were from. And sometimes that's kind of really helpful to understand their perspective, particularly people from the United States, since as an Australian, I guess the way our government is run and the way our legal system is run and some of the things that affect our lives are different.

00:02:40:00 - 00:02:56:06
Lucy Maloney
So to understand people's tweets. So it kind of was helpful to look in people's bios, to say, All right, you're from Massachusetts. I get it now. Aren't you worried about, for example, mass shootings, medical care, whatever it might be?

00:02:56:09 - 00:03:18:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. And yeah, you see your bio right there on Aussie and you have very much a passion for for streets and street safety and active transport. Where did all that come from. Did you come to Vancouver with that already ingrained.

00:03:18:13 - 00:03:50:01
Lucy Maloney
Do you know. It's been developing across my life. Sometimes I think about this. I've always been a cycle commuter. I've I rode my bike to and from elementary school or primary school as we went out in Australia, Secondary school, university work. I've been a vehicular of cyclist, you know, and I, I've also tried to navigate without a car around cities with a baby and a toddler in a pram.

00:03:50:03 - 00:04:15:22
Lucy Maloney
You know, that was in Singapore particularly. And just I've always really noticed, you know, apart from the obvious, which is when I was riding home from university, one day I was hit from behind in a murder strip bike black line when someone was trying to merge on a list. Well, this is confusing for Americans because they are talking about the other side of the straight.

00:04:15:22 - 00:04:16:08
Lucy Maloney
Other side?

00:04:16:08 - 00:04:17:10
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:04:17:12 - 00:04:35:24
Lucy Maloney
Someone was trying to exit the busy road that I was cycling on and they were having an argument with their husband. And thankfully they were driving a very small car and they hit me from behind and I was barely, barely injured. My law textbooks hit me in the back and gave me a bruise, but I landed like a jumbo jet and was super lucky.

00:04:35:24 - 00:05:04:15
Lucy Maloney
But I've been doored. My grandfather was run over by a car crossing the road. I've had friends killed in car crashes. I did triathlons for a while and we lost some triathletes training on the roads, you know, and I've noticed desire lines worn through lawns that haven't had properly designed paths. It's all just sort of culmination of my life experiences and my interests.

00:05:04:15 - 00:05:45:27
Lucy Maloney
I suppose I'm more of a progressive leaning person politically, and I've got all the experiences of being a non paid stay at home mother and a woman in society and a childless professional riding my bike along the busy highways to get to and from work as quickly as possible. You know, I don't I don't know exactly what it is, but through the course of my life, I've really become very passionate about the rights of people to get around without to have the choice not to own and drive a car.

00:05:45:29 - 00:06:03:05
Lucy Maloney
You know, it's I guess it's a social justice issue, particularly because so many people are too old, too young to poor or disabled in a way that stops them from owning and using a car. And also it's just so much more fun getting around my block.

00:06:03:08 - 00:06:16:05
John Simmerman
Right? Yeah. And you know, this this video that you passed along for us is is this scene of well, describe it. What is this scene? What's going on here? This looks like fun.

00:06:16:07 - 00:06:40:11
Lucy Maloney
Well, this is really fun. So great. So I'm the chair of the Pack or Parents Advisory Council of Lord Roberts Elementary School in the west end of Vancouver, which is really dense urban area. There's the school. This is comatose, straight or comatose. Greenway It's part of the official Vancouver cycling network, and it's rated triple for all ages and abilities.

00:06:40:11 - 00:07:08:24
Lucy Maloney
But before this school straight and this is what you're looking at, you're looking at a school straight was put in place and run by volunteers for over two years. This would have been filled with cars honking their horns at each other, trying to get around each other. Absolutely impossible at the time. It needed to be the safest for people using active transport to commute.

00:07:09:01 - 00:07:36:08
Lucy Maloney
It was the most dangerous. So we had two blissful years where we ran a school straight with volunteers, but it was just unsustainable. So at the end of the last school year, so at the end of June this year, we told the city we were going to stop running with volunteers and we were hoping that we would have a permanent school straight imply.

00:07:36:10 - 00:08:06:27
Lucy Maloney
We lobbied really hard. I had a million meetings with elected officials, write up opinion pieces in the newspapers and lobbied and lobbied residents, and we wrote millions of emails. And unfortunately, what it would have taken is staff to have feel like they had the backing of the councilors in reallocating this street space so it didn't need to go to a council vote.

00:08:06:29 - 00:08:30:03
Lucy Maloney
But as I told many of the councilors that I met with, it would have required them intervening to tell staff that they wouldn't overturn it and that they to go ahead with it, for it to go ahead. And that is not what happened. So we we don't have a school street anymore and it's kind of fine at the moment on non rainy days.

00:08:30:03 - 00:08:46:24
Lucy Maloney
But as soon as it rains, lots more people drive their cars and it goes right back to the way it was. So it's impossibly unsafe for anybody outside a car to set foot on that street because it's chocked with driving parents, right?

00:08:47:01 - 00:09:05:14
John Simmerman
Yeah. For those who may be a little bit unfamiliar with the concept of a school street, I think we can kind of figure it out from that little video that we had going. But go ahead and describe it. You know, sort of like officially from the standpoint of of the implementation there in Vancouver.

00:09:05:16 - 00:09:30:07
Lucy Maloney
Well, it's part of the city of Vancouver's hugely popular school street program, where one block of one street adjacent to an elementary school is close to cars and open to people, pick up and drop off times. And it's run by volunteers. So the city of Vancouver is trying to expand its school street program so that we're not so reliant on volunteers.

00:09:30:07 - 00:09:57:18
Lucy Maloney
And some of the ideas that are being thrown around are what they're doing in London at the moment, which that is. They have signs saying this is a school street at these times, and if they don't have physical barriers in place, they have cameras that give you a fine. And so that temporary school street program, we saw whole barriers at either end of the block and they're put in place by volunteers.

00:09:57:24 - 00:10:29:22
Lucy Maloney
The street is supervised by volunteers, and they're taken away at the end of the time. And it creates space for kids to ride bikes and scooters and skateboards and do rollerblading and children's on the street. And for passing cyclists to have a safe route that's not gummed up with the driving parents. At school. You couldn't have asked for a more suitable school to put in place a permanent school straight because there are no driveways on that straight.

00:10:29:24 - 00:10:51:21
Lucy Maloney
It's already a triple. I ride a bike ride and also it's a really dense urban area where the majority of families are already using active transport to get to and from school. So really catering to driving parents at our school is catering to to the minority at the expense of everybody outside a car, which is the majority of people.

00:10:51:27 - 00:10:58:13
Lucy Maloney
You know, we've got a small catchment for our school. Most families live within walking distance.

00:10:58:15 - 00:11:24:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And you've referenced triple-A rated a couple of times and I remember the last time I was in Vancouver filming on Karl Marx. Yes, it's an all ages and abilities. That's what the Triple A refers to, the little short shorthand for all Ages and abilities facility. And it's one of those streets that is you don't see a ton of infrastructure cycling infrastructure.

00:11:24:24 - 00:11:31:24
John Simmerman
What it really is is it's a traffic calming environment, low volumes of cars and.

00:11:31:26 - 00:11:32:26
Lucy Maloney
Allegedly.

00:11:32:29 - 00:12:01:13
John Simmerman
It allegedly. Yes. And low speed. And as I remember from Karl Marx, I remember seeing and filming quite a few modal filter areas where were cars are diverted off. And so just the whole point that there's even this issue of cars, of drivers, of parents feeling compelled to have to bring a car to the school in that type of environment is just a real head scratcher.

00:12:01:15 - 00:12:26:17
Lucy Maloney
Yeah, it's a real combination of factors. I we've got lots of modal filters in the West End and they work really well to make it a beautifully serene and peaceful, quiet residential neighborhood, even though it's right downtown. And you'd expect it to be noisy because it's a very dense area where tens of thousands of people live in close quarters.

00:12:26:17 - 00:12:55:15
Lucy Maloney
But, you know, the fact is that it's motor vehicles that make cities noisy, not dense city. So really, I felt like for sure we were doing people a favor by by making this straight quieter with less traffic pick up and drop off times and less drivers honking their horns at each other. But you know, their desire to have vehicle access on that street is very strong and people are scared of change.

00:12:55:15 - 00:13:19:26
Lucy Maloney
And so I think it's a real change. I'm lucky enough to live on a car free, straight myself and, you know, I want that for everybody. It's it's a good thing. It's it's lovely. It's a thing that, you know, we were prepared to pay a premium for and so it's hard for me to understand. But as I said, change can be difficult for some people.

00:13:19:28 - 00:13:21:02
Lucy Maloney
Yeah.

00:13:21:04 - 00:13:26:09
John Simmerman
So you live on a car free street, Not a car light street, but a car free street. Wow.

00:13:26:12 - 00:13:56:24
Lucy Maloney
Well, one one. We live in a townhouse in a very lot. Prada and we can access the back of our townhouse through apartheid, but the front of our townhouse is on a car free street. It's incredible. Yeah. It's joyful watching, especially in summer, with so many cyclists going past and people running and, you know, dogs. It's absolutely beautiful.

00:13:56:27 - 00:14:23:08
John Simmerman
Now we're going to we're to spend some time talking about Stanley Park, a fair amount and all that. But let's let's go back to Melbourne. And did you notice these types of challenges? Like I know that I haven't visited yet, I need to get there. So I have so many of my interviews from Down Under there encouraging me to get there and check out what's going on.

00:14:23:11 - 00:14:28:19
John Simmerman
As I understand, Ali's are a big thing there. Is that correct? And Melbourne?

00:14:28:22 - 00:14:57:00
Lucy Maloney
Yeah, well, look, you have to understand that I haven't lived in Melbourne for quite a while and I haven't even visited Melbourne since before the pandemic. But I do follow Melbourne cycling advocates very closely on Twitter and I'm always applauding them from afar when they have any wins at all and commiserating with them when people are killed and and when they lose fights to get separated cycling infrastructure.

00:14:57:00 - 00:15:15:03
Lucy Maloney
So yeah, I'm really cheering them on and I hope to, you know, I go back and visit and see all their good work at some stage, same side. But when I was cycling a lot for transport in Melbourne, it was really, as I said, I was a vehicular site.

00:15:15:06 - 00:15:17:12
John Simmerman
So you have to be if you're yeah, if you.

00:15:17:15 - 00:15:40:23
Lucy Maloney
Painted bike lanes, if anything at all and it's all remember I used to ride in to the city each day along the Napoleon Highway and there was a separated bike line that I turned my nose up at because I think it had been designed by a landscape architect. I apologize to all landscape architects, but you haven't got a great track record in designing cycling infrastructure.

00:15:40:23 - 00:16:05:10
Lucy Maloney
I'm sorry, people. And it just had all these lovely curves. It was up for people to get anywhere fast. It was a recreational route. And so I just was on the road with the cars and was a stupid twentysomething who didn't have much idea of my own mortality until I was like, here then anyway.

00:16:05:12 - 00:16:39:08
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So you and I were really connected, mainly because of a thing that sort of boiled up on, on Twitter in November. It was it November? Was it October? It was October, I think. And, and it was really, you were representing Vision Zero, Vancouver. So talk a little bit about Vision Zero, Vancouver and the role that you have been playing.

00:16:39:10 - 00:17:10:15
Lucy Maloney
Well, I'm loosely affiliated with a whole bunch of like minded groups in in Vancouver, and partially it's because I don't like replying to emails or doing paperwork, so I just flick between them without taking any restrictive responsibility. So Vision Zero is one of the groups that I am tangentially related to. They're all at. They're an incredible group of young people who are deeply committed to reducing deaths and injuries on Greater Vancouver's roads.

00:17:10:15 - 00:17:38:15
Lucy Maloney
And I'm hugely admiring of their work and their success, and I'm quite often the spokesperson of last resort because they're all busy earning a living and studying. And so but unfortunately, the media needs to speak to people with very short notice and often right during the middle of the day. So we're on Discord and I go, okay, I can do it.

00:17:38:18 - 00:17:39:01
Lucy Maloney
And you.

00:17:39:01 - 00:17:40:02
John Simmerman
Get you get the.

00:17:40:05 - 00:18:04:17
Lucy Maloney
Elements to do it. Yeah. I end up just because we feel like we don't want to sign media when they giving us an opportunity to promote our messages and achieve our goals, which and the media is quite often very effective for that. So yeah, end up that's what I do with them and provide a bit of I go to meetings with them sometimes and I help or I can.

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:18:14
John Simmerman
So it's this video that prompted me to reach out to you to talk about this because this particular thing that sort of blew up is kind of from your neck of the woods, right? Because Richmond is is up there in B.C., Correct?

00:18:18:21 - 00:18:34:04
Lucy Maloney
Yeah, Yeah. Richmond is part of Greater Vancouver. So if you if you come in to Vancouver International Airport, you'll be in Richmond. So it's just the next corner of the next subsidies from, from Vancouver, Right.

00:18:34:06 - 00:18:45:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well let's first press play on this and this will set up the context and remind everybody of sort of what happened and what boiled up about a couple of months ago in October.

00:18:45:23 - 00:18:54:09
CBC Vancouver
Your group is dedicated to reducing and eliminating traffic deaths, as I suppose as best as can be. What went through your mind when you first saw this video?

00:18:54:17 - 00:19:17:03
Lucy Maloney
Well, the first thing that I noticed was that the girl that's crossing the road isn't doing anything illegal. She's she's pressed the button, she's on the crosswalk, she's paying attention. She's not doing anything illegal, whereas the driver is looking at their fines. So this girl could have been dancing across the crosswalk in a neon bull frock and this guy would not have seen her.

00:19:17:03 - 00:19:20:06
Lucy Maloney
So it's absolutely not an equivalent thing.

00:19:20:09 - 00:19:40:00
CBC Vancouver
Now, we have heard from the Richmond RCMP in a statement, they say in part, the video is not about, quote, X being more right than why The purpose of the video is to reduce harm, save lives, create awareness, full stop, nothing more, and certainly nothing less. I mean, as you mentioned, it shows somebody breaking the law. It shows somebody who's not doing that.

00:19:40:03 - 00:19:50:00
CBC Vancouver
How do you think they could have done a better job with with perhaps subtleties when it comes to it? Because the message was a pedestrian safety is a two way street.

00:19:50:03 - 00:20:14:19
Lucy Maloney
I think it shouldn't have been a surprise to the Richmond RCMP that this would be badly received. Every year we get public safety campaigns that effectively victim blame. They put responsibility on vulnerable cases outside cars to be responsible for their own safety. And that's that's not really getting to the core of what causes traffic deaths and injuries on our roads.

00:20:14:21 - 00:20:42:06
Lucy Maloney
You know, we've got other things like the design of cars, the design of the infrastructure that was a super wide road and driver behavior which is disproportionately responsive for terrible consequences. You know, the consequence for the driver would have been, oops. Bang. The consequence for the pedestrian would have been serious injury or possibly even tragic consequences.

00:20:42:13 - 00:20:46:02
CBC Vancouver
If you were to design a video like this, what would you do?

00:20:46:05 - 00:21:24:23
Lucy Maloney
Well, what I would do is I would have pictures of politicians listening to experts telling them about what really contributes to us reducing traffic deaths and injuries on our roads. And I'd have pictures of people telling police that enforce is a really good idea and automated enforcement is a really good idea. Where I'm from, Australia, there's a lot more video enforcement of people using their phones, which doesn't require an individual police officer to pull people over and process them very slowly.

00:21:24:24 - 00:21:31:23
Lucy Maloney
You get the first you know about it is that you get a ticket in the mail and that's in addition to on the street enforcement.

00:21:31:25 - 00:21:46:13
CBC Vancouver
And perhaps if the message has it landed. Also, perhaps a good reminder, even if it wasn't presented well, that if you are going to be crossing a road of some description and not trying to victim shame that you want to look up, you want to make sure that you can see your surroundings.

00:21:46:15 - 00:22:09:14
Lucy Maloney
Well, I don't want to give that message because I'm concerned about the needs of children and vision and hearing impaired people and people who are using wheelchairs or other mobility devices that might make them sit lower on the road and are more visible. And I think that everybody outside cars is already brutally aware of keeping themselves safe on the roads.

00:22:09:19 - 00:22:23:10
Lucy Maloney
What we need to do is influence how our infrastructure is built so drivers get visual cues to go more slowly on our roads and we need to work on driver behavior through enforcement.

00:22:23:12 - 00:22:26:01
CBC Vancouver
Lucy Maloney with Vision Zero, Vancouver. Thank you for joining us.

00:22:26:03 - 00:22:27:00
Lucy Maloney
Thank you.

00:22:27:02 - 00:22:27:22
John Simmerman
That was just.

00:22:27:27 - 00:22:33:19
Lucy Maloney
Really hard to watch it myself, but it's kind of good that trying to improve next time.

00:22:33:21 - 00:22:53:15
John Simmerman
Well, yeah, And believe me, I get it. You know, that's I'm recording these things every single day and then having to go back and record or edit them and all that. But I have to see that. That was one of the reasons why I was so passionate about getting you on the channel for this conversation is you handled that so incredibly well.

00:22:53:15 - 00:23:17:06
John Simmerman
And now that I know that you were an attorney, I'm not as surprised. It was it was very, very you. You stayed on point and you didn't take the easy bait of saying, yeah. And you're like, No, I don't want to say that. I don't want to go in that direction. And it really is so important in the layering of we need to get the infrastructure right.

00:23:17:08 - 00:23:42:11
John Simmerman
Once we have the infrastructure right, then we need to look at enforcement. You know, it's like these layers of it and the very, very last thing should be, you know, safe personal safety approach and equipment and invisible. It's it's very, very far down the list. And you pointed it out so deftly there, I want to say, of saying that, you know.

00:23:42:11 - 00:23:51:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. You need think about people who are vision impaired or you know Yeah. So again, kudos. Fantastic.

00:23:51:12 - 00:24:15:01
Lucy Maloney
Well, what I want to say about that is that it's a real team effort. You know, I'm the spokesperson, but there are two main things that contribute apart from my own life experience. And you know, being confident with public speaking and all that. One of them is that my own little organization is called Love the Lane, and it's a very small operation.

00:24:15:01 - 00:24:59:04
Lucy Maloney
And one of my coconspirators in Love, the Lane, is a media professional who has done so much for me in giving me very blunt feedback, such as, You've got a terrible resting bitch face. You need to smile more when you do media. Yeah, Luckily open to receiving feedback like that. He helps me to practice, he helps to give me feedback about what I'm, what I could improve on so he knows who he is and he has helped me so much in improving my media messaging through all the practice that I've gotten throughout disastrous lack of success for fans, but also Vision Zero, Vancouver.

00:24:59:04 - 00:25:10:08
Lucy Maloney
We have we get on the chat on Discord and we workshop oppositions on things. So what comes out of my mouth is the product of a whole bunch of input from other people.

00:25:10:10 - 00:25:17:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, fantastic. I appreciate that. I also pulled up. Love the Lane. Okay. I think that's what we're you're talking about, correct?

00:25:18:02 - 00:25:18:25
Lucy Maloney
Yeah.

00:25:18:27 - 00:25:26:05
John Simmerman
So this brings us this brings us over to the lane that we're having difficulties with. Is that correct?

00:25:26:07 - 00:26:03:12
Lucy Maloney
Yeah, it's we, we're broadening out our work, but I love the Lane was originally a response to the municipal elections that happened in October last year. It seems like longer ago, but where a municipal government swept in with a super majority and immediately announced that they were going to rip out that incredibly wonderful and populous Stanley Park Bike lane, I'm not sure if everyone's familiar with Stanley Park, but they call it the Jewel of Vancouver.

00:26:03:12 - 00:26:46:09
Lucy Maloney
It's this incredibly large forest park with about a ten kilometer ride around the outside. What you can see there in that picture is that Stanley Pot seawall, which is one bike path. But we have an additional bike path on the right. So the single bike path is the ultimate tourist experience. So you ride a bike, ride around the outside of the park, incredible views, but it's pretty narrow and pretty slow when you want to do a workout ride like I want to, or it's a hot day, you want some shade or you want to access any of the attractions in the middle of Stanley Park.

00:26:46:12 - 00:27:18:23
Lucy Maloney
It's nice to have a safe bike lying on Stanley Park Drive because it's very difficult to get from the seawall bike path that's flat around the very outside at sea level into that mountainous middle of the park. So it was a pandemic response. So at the beginning of the pandemic, like that, very first May of 2020, the city of Vancouver and the pop board created Beach Avenue Bikeway and completely closed Stanley Park to visitors cars.

00:27:18:26 - 00:27:52:12
Lucy Maloney
And of course, we didn't have really strict lockdowns at all in Vancouver. There were some restrictions, but basically you could go out and do your exercise whenever you wanted and be physically distanced at outdoors. And so it felt like the whole of Vancouver dusted off their box and just started enjoying doing laps of Stanley Park, Drive through the forest and the seawall Bike path was actually restricted to people on foot only so everyone would ride.

00:27:52:15 - 00:28:12:08
Lucy Maloney
So that was the first two months and then they put in a bike path. So yeah, the first two months it was completely closed to cars and then they put in an orange cone bike path so that cars could get in and then half the road was allocated to people on bicycles.

00:28:12:10 - 00:28:48:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. Very, very fascinating. So yeah, I've been sort of following it from afar that, you know, so I remember hearing that, yes, the, the seawall was, was pedestrian only during that period of time. And then this was there. So this article is really this is from last November 2022. So this is what you were referring to, is that, you know, a new government has come in and it's it's looking like this has become, as you mentioned earlier, change is difficult.

00:28:48:28 - 00:29:13:08
John Simmerman
It's become a controversial flashpoint. And, you know, and they want the cars back. Yeah. I mean, I'm I've got the same thing just, you know, walking distance from my house. We've got our crown jewel of the park of the city, Zilker Park, and there's cars that race through the middle of it. And it's just like, why? Why do we have cars racing through the middle of our crown?

00:29:13:08 - 00:29:15:18
John Simmerman
Jewel Park was.

00:29:15:20 - 00:29:46:24
Lucy Maloney
So. Yeah, yeah. It's super frustrating because you get the traffic that you build for and you know, there's been some frustrating discussion about needing to look at pre-pandemic levels to work out what what the traffic levels are. But of course the pre-pandemic motor vehicle traffic levels were directly related to the fact that Stanley Park Drive was entirely designed for the convenience and throughput of motor vehicles and the convenient car parking of motor vehicles.

00:29:47:01 - 00:30:27:29
Lucy Maloney
You know, there is barely even a curb cut. So huge distances. There are very few sidewalks for people once they get out of their cars to use to get around. So really pre-pandemic, the pre-pandemic configuration in Stanley Park only suits, motor vehicles, not even their occupants once they stop. So that that huge culture war, which is very frustrating and a lot of mythology and misinformation of course got spread around that, you know, you couldn't get into Stanley Park because you couldn't get in with a car, which wasn't even true.

00:30:27:29 - 00:30:58:18
Lucy Maloney
Once the first two months were finished, you had one line instead of two. But we know that sometimes the drivers of motor vehicles often equate their own convenience with access. But what I always say about Stanley Park is that the year round safety of cyclists has been sacrificed to the convenience of drivers at peak times. That's one of my little soundbites that comes out in almost every interview I do about Stanley Park.

00:30:58:21 - 00:31:23:19
Lucy Maloney
But it's very true, you know, and that's where all slots come down to, is the convenience of drivers versus the physical safety of people outside cars. So that's an ongoing thing and that's why I get better and better at media. It's because it's always the same thing you're trying to say so in different ways, in different situations.

00:31:23:21 - 00:31:52:03
John Simmerman
It's interesting too, because when we we we look at the reality of how Stanley Park is situated. And in that one picture, you can kind of see the the massive bridge that is, you know, in place and, you know, kind of, you know, the sea is there. A seawall goes underneath the pathway, goes underneath the bridge. That bridge can get you over to West Vancouver.

00:31:52:06 - 00:32:16:18
John Simmerman
And the but in the park itself, I mean, where are these drivers going to or feel they have the absolute need to get to so urgently that it you know, clearly it wasn't needed if if if they were able to for two months go completely car free. I mean, the earth didn't start spinning so well.

00:32:16:21 - 00:32:45:08
Lucy Maloney
The things that I often say about Stanley Park is that one line for cars is a compromise. And it's definitely not necessary to have two lanes for motor vehicles. And the other thing that we're we're trying to do is possibly rebranded as an emergency services access lane that that cyclists can use because obviously it's a real problem getting into some areas of Stanley Park.

00:32:45:08 - 00:33:10:14
Lucy Maloney
If there is a car crash or a forest fire or there just is a lot of traffic on at peak times, whereas you might be completely unable to pass with an emergency services vehicle if there are to rise of cars blocking the road. It's very easy generally for cyclists to just pick their bikes up and move them on that side.

00:33:10:14 - 00:33:22:09
Lucy Maloney
That an ambulance or fire truck can get through along the bike path if it's sufficiently wide. So we wish we wish we'd thought of that a few years ago because things might be different.

00:33:22:12 - 00:33:31:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, you know, what is the update most recent update as to where we're at on all this?

00:33:31:20 - 00:33:59:24
Lucy Maloney
Well, the most recent upset died on Stanley Park is quite dramatic, actually, because I'm actually one of the things that I might be doing later this afternoon if I considered in between meetings is call in to the city of Vancouver, the council meeting today where there there's a motion to ask the the provincial government to amend the Vancouver Charter to abolish the Park Board, who has jurisdiction over Stanley Park so that council make the things.

00:33:59:29 - 00:34:24:15
Lucy Maloney
And that's going to affect us a lot because and I suspect part of the reason why they're doing that is because there's been a split. So there was six ABC councilors and that's the super majority party and one Vancouver Grains Council. Now the three of the ABC have been voting in a block with the grains guy, so they've got a majority.

00:34:24:15 - 00:34:54:01
Lucy Maloney
And so there's a bit of internal disagreement. And so I'm not sure that the party central is very happy that they've lost control of the Park board. So I'm almost 100% certain that that's the case because they're they've actually expelled those three ABC board commissioners from the party. So there are only three left. So there's an eight there are three independents plus the Vancouver grains commissioner.

00:34:54:03 - 00:35:25:29
Lucy Maloney
And so today that Vancouver council councils will be voting to ask the provincial government to abolish the pot board. And I think that will significantly reduce the chances of getting a permanent line put in place, even though that was an election promise of the ABC party, because what they were going to do is rip the pipeline out. Then by summer 2023, which is the summer that's just past, I would have installed a permanent pipeline.

00:35:25:29 - 00:35:59:01
Lucy Maloney
Now, any of us that know about that, how complicated it is to design and implement a plan like that probably realized that that was a very unrealistic goal. But then they were going to install permanent line by next summer and that purported staff just submitted a report to to them and a couple of pot board meetings ago saying, we haven't got the money and we haven't got the time and there's no way you're going to get a permanent black line installed on Stanley Pot Drive by summer 2024.

00:35:59:02 - 00:36:32:04
Lucy Maloney
So that was the latest round of that. And so part of the problem is that ABC wants to have two general vehicle lanes plus a bike lane, which I think for most of the park is a terrible idea because what staff reported to the Commission is that that recent pot board meeting was that when the bike was in place and motor vehicles only had one lane, there was a very small amount of exceeding the speed limit, which is 30 kilometers an hour, which I believe is 20 miles an hour.

00:36:32:06 - 00:36:34:03
John Simmerman
About 17. Yeah.

00:36:34:06 - 00:37:04:25
Lucy Maloney
Yeah. And and as soon as they pulled out the bike line and measured vehicle speeds this summer, at about 80% of drivers were exceeding the speed limit by 20 kilometers an hour, which is you can't translate that. Sorry, but it was not a surprise to any of us that understand that one of the key infrastructure factors contributing to speeding and therefore deaths and injuries on our roads is wide lanes and multiple lanes.

00:37:04:25 - 00:37:20:18
Lucy Maloney
But see, a driver can't pass their restricted to the speed of the vehicle in front of them. So no surprises there. So we definitely don't want an overtake taking line all the way around the pot for vehicles cause it will be just dangerous for everybody.

00:37:20:21 - 00:37:49:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. Do you get the sense that part of the challenge here is that many of the powers that be, the people who are in position, are just viewing this as an non essential route for people riding bikes, you know? they're just going for exercise and getting some, you know, it's like, why are they on a bike? Why don't they just go for a walk on the seawall, you know, kind of thing?

00:37:49:21 - 00:37:54:22
John Simmerman
Is it just kind of a lack of respect for people on bikes?

00:37:54:25 - 00:38:24:05
Lucy Maloney
I think there's some really serious antipathy towards cyclists in Vancouver that I noticed almost as soon as I arrived. I mean, I think it's everywhere. There's an politicization of and othering of cyclists and a lack of it in that it's a very legitimate form of transport. But it's so confusing in the park because people driving in the park are recreationally driving.

00:38:24:08 - 00:38:25:05
Lucy Maloney
Right? You know, it's.

00:38:25:09 - 00:38:50:24
John Simmerman
I mean, this this is a when you're driving on this, you're basically I mean, again, as I mentioned earlier, there's no, like, meaningful. You're not going to work by driving through here, just like the person on the bike is not riding to work through the park necessarily. I guess it's technically possible, but not likely. Mostly, you know, when you when you see this image, you realize this is a park, this is a place for restoration.

00:38:50:24 - 00:39:15:19
John Simmerman
And, you know, again, it brings me back to how flabbergasted I am that we have built these motorways through parks. And, you know, I get the whole Parkway movement. That was an entire movement, you know, after cars came along where, you know, that was the thing. You built roadways through green spaces and you would go for a Sunday drive and relax and, you know, take it in.

00:39:15:19 - 00:39:38:29
John Simmerman
I get that. I get that. But that's not what Stanley Park is. I mean, this is a beautiful area for restoration. There's plenty of wild spaces there. I've even my little Brompton bike on some of the mountain biking and natural surface trails there. I mean, this is beautiful spaces there. Cars just, you know, needs to be minimized, not maximized.

00:39:39:01 - 00:40:07:00
Lucy Maloney
Yeah. You know, a lot of the opponents of the bike line on Stanley Park Drive point to places like Central Park and to differentiate Stanley Park. And they say, well, look, if you if you look at Central Park, you've got entrances and exits where people can be dropped off and picked up all around the edge. And that's why they can get away with having no having cars banned and cars not being able to drive through.

00:40:07:02 - 00:40:45:04
Lucy Maloney
But what I say is that one line for motor vehicles is the compromise. Two lines is not a compromise. Two lines excludes people using active transport and cycling recreationally. And I suppose the other main frustration for me is that allocating space to cycling on Stanley Park Drive, it shapes so many public policy goals that are so important about climate, about public health, and trying to increase active physical activity, physical and mental health equity, you name it.

00:40:45:07 - 00:41:20:18
Lucy Maloney
The protected bike line on Stanley Park brought us further towards those public policy goals. So there aren't many public policy goals that are achieved by two lines because it, you know, even putting my Vision Zero Vancouver hat back on for a minute, if we're trying to reduce, we know that speeding is the number one cause of deaths and injuries and motor vehicle crashes and we know that allocating two lanes to two cars is going to increase our chances of having car crashes.

00:41:20:21 - 00:41:28:09
Lucy Maloney
So I don't I the facts are in our favor, but the culture war is difficult to fight. Yeah.

00:41:28:12 - 00:41:50:19
John Simmerman
And just the irony, too, is since most of those motor vehicles are going to be internal combustion engines, you know, burning fossil fuels through this nature area, I mean, it's like, okay, well, best of luck if you do, you know, participate later today and best of luck on that continued fight. You just put your vision zero hat on briefly there for a moment.

00:41:50:19 - 00:42:11:27
John Simmerman
So in a keep keep that Vision Zero hat on. And we'll talk a little bit about some of the the comments that you made, you know, for Halloween. And of course, well, I'll let you set this up. We won't turn the volume on this video for it, but I'll actually go ahead and press play because I know that there's some nice sort of B-roll that's in here.

00:42:12:01 - 00:42:28:18
John Simmerman
I want to give the context and talk a little bit about what your response was, because, again, you you did a really, really good job of keeping this focused on what we should be focusing on in this particular story as well.

00:42:28:21 - 00:42:58:05
Lucy Maloney
Yeah, I am. So this was for Halloween and what I was doing was responding to a major media request for Vision Zero in Vancouver to talk about how, you know, we always get these public safety announcements saying, dress your kids up like construction workers so that they're safe on Halloween when it's absolutely outrageous that you you would expect business as usual from drivers on on Halloween.

00:42:58:12 - 00:43:20:25
Lucy Maloney
The visions here of Vancouver message on Halloween is leave it at home for 4 hours on Halloween. It's not that much to ask. Don't drive on Halloween unless you absolutely have to. And if you have to drive, take it slowly and carefully, even more than usual, to make sure that you don't run over trick or treaters who are dressed in black.

00:43:20:25 - 00:43:47:09
Lucy Maloney
I mean, imagine asking people to ruin their costumes. Yet there I am. Don't run over a little trick or treat is it? It's funny. I usually get very little notice of when we have to when I have to go and speak to the media. So what I do is when I'm throwing on my makeup and trying to make myself look decent, I, I just practice saying our key points out loud.

00:43:47:10 - 00:44:11:15
Lucy Maloney
I think if three key points I work out how I'm going to sign them, I rehearse them and, you know, I do try and answer the questions, especially if it's a live interview because it's not good entertainment unless you're having a conversation. And let's face it, it is entertainment that they're trying to produce. So it is.

00:44:11:15 - 00:44:12:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know.

00:44:12:15 - 00:44:36:06
Lucy Maloney
I, I think about the points that I'm I'm trying to make and I find a way with the questions that they ask to get my key messages through and to avoid giving them the conflict narrative that that's over and over. Oversimplification and maybe a victim blaming narrative. That is all that might be left once they edit it out.

00:44:36:06 - 00:44:49:04
Lucy Maloney
So I've had interviews not even air because I haven't given them what they've been looking for, which is, you know, I'm angry from cyclists when in fact more complicated than that.

00:44:49:06 - 00:45:22:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. No in fact that that's so important that you point that out. Is that a big part of this whole culture war kind of thing is you've got to get these you got to get these two sides. They're fighting each other. And the fact that the you have done such a really good job, I think delivering the message that's on point and not buying into, you know, sort of the the easy things of of victim blaming and all that, You kind of stay the course and you do it in a very respectful way.

00:45:22:18 - 00:46:02:10
John Simmerman
And so I think it's a really hopefully folks will find this video in this episode very helpful as inspiration for how you're handling things from an advocacy perspective within your own communities. Is it doesn't really serve us to to get into name calling. And you know, in basic I almost said victim blaming but getting into the that process of shaming and blaming people, you know, back and forth, it doesn't really serve as you know, to do that, we need to kind of stay focused on on what the real goal is, is change policy.

00:46:02:12 - 00:46:28:26
Lucy Maloney
I mean, that's that's that is correct. And, you know, my style of advocacy is what I think that I'm good at and what I can contribute. But I'm not saying that there's no place for really flipping tables. You know, I absolutely respect and admire people that just that won't even talk to the elected officials and are constantly at them on social media.

00:46:28:28 - 00:47:05:26
Lucy Maloney
I mean, I feel as though there's a place for so many different styles of advocacy. So I'm meeting hopefully shortly with a counselor that a lot of people who are cycling advocates probably think is a hopeless case. But I'm I'm going to hopefully have a conversation with this person and out if there's anything that I consider to be a priority that they're interested in leading, you know, and I might not have any success, but it's funny, I'm super motivated to find out, like, why are we losing and when are we losing and what can I do?

00:47:05:26 - 00:47:31:16
Lucy Maloney
How early do I have to get in and who do I have to speak to and raise with, then persuade and influence to change our lot, you know, And that might be that we we don't have any success without having a majority government. But there are some projects that we might be able to get done. Now, not everyone feels that way, and I've had been criticized for being an ABC apologist more than once.

00:47:31:18 - 00:48:05:06
Lucy Maloney
But, you know, I think that I strike a good balance for me in being very straightforward in the media when I don't like something. But, you know, in a in a clear and respectful way. But, you know, clearly not happy and saying why. But also I'm able to have good one on one relationships and conversations with the people who are making the decisions to hopefully do what I can within their political leanings and other groups that they're subject to.

00:48:05:08 - 00:48:22:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I'm glad you did point that out and say that is there. There absolutely is places for what I like to call the activists, people who will literally lay down in the middle of the street and say, you know, hey, we need to protest this.

00:48:22:12 - 00:48:23:07
Lucy Maloney
Absolutely.

00:48:23:07 - 00:48:46:00
John Simmerman
There's there's space. There's a place, you know, in every city for those people who are going to be the agitators and the activists that are going to be doing that. But then there's the the advocates that are doing kind of what you're emulating here, which is, you know, being a spokesperson for many of the organizations that you're associated with and working with.

00:48:46:02 - 00:49:09:18
John Simmerman
And when the news media catch on to the fact that, hey, Lucy is a straight shooter, she's going to you know, she's going to give a good interview and etc., they may not give you the the tidbits. And that's juicy stuff. You know, Lucy may not deliver that, but she's going to, you know, be, you know, delivering a you know, a good message in a professional and respectful way.

00:49:09:18 - 00:49:12:04
John Simmerman
So I think that that's really important.

00:49:12:07 - 00:49:44:21
Lucy Maloney
You know, and with the media sometimes it's is as simple as they need to create content for that that day. And if you're available you get your on right so it can you know they the media have so few resources to get their their stuff out there to get their programs running. And you know, if I can that's why I try and feed them content that pushes our messages and keep them informed about when things are coming up and our slant on it.

00:49:44:21 - 00:50:04:23
Lucy Maloney
And I try and help them when wherever I can and I am available at the drop of a hat to go and make them wherever they want. And then I get my sound bites on the news. So it's great to understand how they work and how few resources they have in order to work with them to get our messages.

00:50:04:23 - 00:50:05:23
Lucy Maloney
App there.

00:50:05:25 - 00:50:29:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I pulled up your your Twitter profile once again, and I love the fact that Lucy is also profiled here you have the picture of Nancy in in your in your your photo there. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to make sure to leave the audience with here today?

00:50:29:12 - 00:50:57:14
Lucy Maloney
Well, I suppose I mean, I'm I try and work closely with various organizations and talk to people to make sure that I'm supporting their goals wherever I can. So I work with the main cycling advocacy organization, which is called Hub Cycling, and Jeff Lee, who's the president of Hub. I often live on about how much I love him and love working with him.

00:50:57:17 - 00:51:30:21
Lucy Maloney
He and I are really kindred spirits. He's an engineer. My father's an engineer and we just get along really well. So if all my advocacy I he's incredible mentor and role model and he's also got all the history of some of Vancouver and its bike lanes on the tip of his tongue and we often go on what I call regaling rides where we go out cycling somewhere and he'll stop and talk to me about all the battles that have been fought.

00:51:30:21 - 00:51:57:06
Lucy Maloney
And you know what? It was used for and which section of lands what I'm by the railway company or Metro Vancouver or the province or the city or the city of Burnaby or whatever it is. Working with other people is one of the most rewarding parts of what I do. And I feel as though I've got some very, very narrow strengths that I can use to move things forward.

00:51:57:10 - 00:52:34:29
Lucy Maloney
And I really do benefit from, you know, I that kind of collegiate approach of of working with efficiency. Very Vancouver and my little love the lane and hub cycling and there's a new transit advocacy group that's just started called movement and they're trying to get more and more frequent busses and cleaner busses and more bus shelters. And you know, we've all got so much in common and if we band together, we can resist what what usually happens, which is they make us fight with each other.

00:52:34:29 - 00:52:58:06
Lucy Maloney
So you kind of had the back line because we've got the rapid bus line. So sorry, cycling for your part. You can't have a wider footpath or sidewalk because of the bike path. You know where all it's it, it doesn't come down to that. That distracts us from the fact that we should be real having straight space and priority away from motor vehicles.

00:52:58:06 - 00:53:12:14
Lucy Maloney
So I'm just trying to connect people and benefit from other people's knowledge and expertise too, so that we all are able to move our messages forward and make some progress.

00:53:12:17 - 00:53:46:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Well, well said. And, and, and honestly, that's exactly what motor wants us to do, is to get distracted and start in-fighting and not not being, you know, laser focused on pushing for the political change that needs to take place, the policy changes that need to take place, because as long as is they can, you know, keep doing what they're doing, the status quo, the motor motoring motor dumb, as Peter Norton likes to call it, it just keeps chugging along.

00:53:46:18 - 00:53:54:27
John Simmerman
So, yeah, that's good stuff. Lucy, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. This has been an absolute joy.

00:53:54:29 - 00:53:57:25
Lucy Maloney
Well, thank you. It's a real honor to be here. Thanks.

00:53:57:28 - 00:54:13:15
John Simmerman
He thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Lucy Maloney. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, I'd be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and ring that notifications bell.

00:54:13:21 - 00:54:36:01
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying the content that I'm producing, please consider becoming an active town's ambassador. It's easy to do. Just click on the link down below for Active Towns story. You can click on the support button and there's several different options, including becoming a Patreon supporter. Patrons do get access to all of this video content early and ad free.

00:54:36:03 - 00:55:02:17
John Simmerman
Again, thank you so much for tuning in. It really means so much to me. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again sending a huge thank you to all my active town's ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron Buy me a coffee YouTube super. Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

00:55:02:20 - 00:55:03:27
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.