Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:30:08
Darcy Kitching
What struck me more than anything was just the power of a place that has been built on the walked prayers of so many thousands and thousands and millions of people. I took this picture because this is etched into the stones as we entered Santiago. I took a picture of the English phrase. It was in many different languages, but it says Europe was made on the Pilgrims Road to Compostela.

00:00:30:10 - 00:00:44:08
Darcy Kitching
And if you take this to heart, what that really means to me is that walking, you know, moving, actively, being it's the human movement that has built our places.

00:00:44:11 - 00:01:11:15
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Podcast. My name is John Simmerman, and that is Darcy Kitching from Boulder, Colorado. We are going to be talking about her new job in transportation demand management team. We're also going to talk about her recent trip on the Camino de Santiago. So let's get right to it with Darcy. Darcy Kitching, So wonderful to have you back on the Active Towns Podcast.

00:01:11:15 - 00:01:12:24
John Simmerman
Welcome.

00:01:12:27 - 00:01:14:13
Darcy Kitching
Thank you, John. I'm so glad to be here.

00:01:14:21 - 00:01:28:14
John Simmerman
Darcy, You've been on the podcast a couple of times. I've profiled you a few times out on my YouTube channel for other various activities there in Boulder. But I want you to take this opportunity just to introduce yourself. Who is Darcy?

00:01:28:21 - 00:02:00:27
Darcy Kitching
Sure. Hi. Well, I'm Darcy Kitching, and I am a transportation professional here in the city of Boulder. I work with a group called Boulder Transportation Connections. I'm also a researcher and an active pedestrian advocate. I manage or kind of oversee a group called the Boulder Ramblers. We're an urban hiking group, and that is the group that John has so beautifully profiled and featured on your channel.

00:02:00:27 - 00:02:06:16
Darcy Kitching
So thank you so much. There's a lot of wonderful stuff happening here in Boulder, and I'm so delighted to be part of it.

00:02:06:18 - 00:02:19:27
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Yes, exactly. And what's really cool since the last time we've had the opportunity to talk with you here on the channel is you have a new job. It's cool.

00:02:19:29 - 00:02:23:06
Darcy Kitching
Yeah, it's a great job.

00:02:23:09 - 00:02:27:21
John Simmerman
Tell us more. Tell us about about what you do.

00:02:27:23 - 00:02:34:24
Darcy Kitching
Well, you know, it's exciting because I am I've entered this very specific niche of transportation.

00:02:34:24 - 00:02:35:01
Darcy Kitching
Called.

00:02:35:01 - 00:02:40:16
Darcy Kitching
Transportation demand management, which sounds super wonky.

00:02:40:18 - 00:02:42:13
Darcy Kitching
and and it is, you know, I.

00:02:42:13 - 00:03:25:13
Darcy Kitching
Mean, it's really it's a very specific niche. It's all about helping the city of Boulder meet its own goals to reduce single occupant vehicle trips, to reduce greenhouse gases, to get people moving and making different transportation choices. But really, ultimately, what transportation demand management as a profession is all about is maximizing the current transportation systems that we have so that we're not building new lanes for cars, were maintaining the infrastructure that we have and we're actually adding more infrastructure for activity.

00:03:25:13 - 00:03:46:05
Darcy Kitching
So this is where you and I really connect beautifully, is that, you know, we both of us are so out there in the world helping people walk and bike and take transit and, you know, move actively through their towns and link up with others who are doing that and who love to do that and, you know, want to learn more about how to do that in the course of their daily lives.

00:03:46:07 - 00:03:48:26
Darcy Kitching
So that's really what you know, there's an acronym that.

00:03:48:26 - 00:03:49:11
Darcy Kitching
Goes with this.

00:03:49:11 - 00:04:46:12
Darcy Kitching
Whole team, and that's really what this this niche within transportation is all about. How do we maximize the transportation infrastructure and systems that we already have and then build on the capacity for activity within those so that we're incentivizing and providing space for more bicycling, more walking, more transit use. And here in Colorado, it's actually been really super exciting lately because just last week, I don't know how up on commuter rail or passenger rail you are, but the front range passenger rail district was just selected as one of just a handful of projects around the country for federal funding for more planning activities to determine whether this front range passenger rail district, which runs, you

00:04:46:12 - 00:04:54:19
Darcy Kitching
know, potentially will be running intercity rail between Fort Collins and Pueblo, Colorado, all along the front Range, including Boulder.

00:04:54:21 - 00:04:55:05
Darcy Kitching
You know, our.

00:04:55:05 - 00:05:21:22
Darcy Kitching
Governor, Jared Polis is from Boulder and has been a strong advocate to bring commuter rail and intercity passenger rail to Colorado. And this is something you know, it's in our history, it's in kind of our DNA. And we've, you know, like a lot of places over the past many years, we have let our transportation infrastructure really be dominated by auto travel and vehicles.

00:05:21:25 - 00:05:41:14
Darcy Kitching
So we're trying to bring back this wonderful tradition of passenger rail. And so that's that's a big project that we're actually helping to advocate for it. Boulder Transportation Connections. We've been involved in those conversations and have been facilitating some of them in our own meetings and to me, that's the one of the most exciting things that we've been involved in lately.

00:05:41:14 - 00:05:56:08
Darcy Kitching
And of course, you know, big conversations with our regional transportation district, helping to provide, you know, bus service and advocating for the return of bus service to our transit oriented development, which currently is not served by transit.

00:05:56:11 - 00:05:58:21
Darcy Kitching
So there's a lot going on.

00:05:58:21 - 00:06:15:22
Darcy Kitching
Here and a lot of really fun and exciting projects that I'm just so pleased to be part of and really grateful to be able to to do this work in the city where I live as well. So I have the great the good fortune of living and working in the same city. So I don't have a big commute.

00:06:15:22 - 00:06:23:06
Darcy Kitching
I work from home frequently, which is another thing that I'm really advocate for is, you know, telework. How do we just not travel when we don't need to?

00:06:23:08 - 00:06:27:00
Darcy Kitching
So not traveling is a way to, you know, keep cars off the.

00:06:27:00 - 00:06:48:08
Darcy Kitching
Streets as well. So I often work from home. Our organization is housed at the Boulder Chamber of Commerce. So I get to go into the Boulder Chamber and be part of those exciting activities. The Boulder Chamber is the second largest chamber of commerce and state of Colorado, and there's just so much fun and exciting stuff going on. And I get to bring all my skills and interests to this work.

00:06:48:08 - 00:06:51:20
Darcy Kitching
So it's really it's really fun and I'm really grateful for it.

00:06:51:22 - 00:07:19:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love the way that you phrase. That too is like really trying to lean into activating what's already there and the processes and the infrastructure in the systems that are already there and really trying to maximize utilization of them. Yes, of course we need to build better infrastructure and we'll talk a little bit about that. I think you've got a little video on a slip lane, so we'll talk about.

00:07:19:21 - 00:07:48:16
John Simmerman
Yeah, for storing stuff. But yeah, I mean it's like in so in in the act towns terminology, you've heard me say that we've got the hardware which is our built environment. You know, these are the activity assets that are the hardware are bike lanes in our you know, sidewalks and the things that are built in our environment. These are the things that we can put a pin in a map and say, yeah, we've got a park over there, we've got a protected bike lane over here, we've got a public pool over there.

00:07:48:18 - 00:08:17:17
John Simmerman
And you know, these are are these assets that we have in our community, but it's these activity assets that are the software that bring them to life. And that's what you are doing. And that's and that's part of it. And some of the activities include initiatives. So so these are a series of photos that you have put out on on Instagram actually associated with with this particular initiative.

00:08:17:17 - 00:08:26:24
John Simmerman
Talk about this initiative. And was this initiative a a nationwide or worldwide initiative, or is this just for Boulder and Colorado?

00:08:26:26 - 00:08:27:28
Darcy Kitching
Well, this was exciting.

00:08:27:28 - 00:08:38:08
Darcy Kitching
So I took I had just taken a bite of breakfast. So why my face looks like that while I was waiting for the bus. I looked a little funny, but the bus was right there and I had to snap a picture.

00:08:38:11 - 00:09:06:21
Darcy Kitching
So this was the first day, I believe, of the National Week Without Driving, which was actually a collaboration between America Works and an organization in Washington State, the name of which escapes me at the moment. But you can slip that in here. This was the first nationwide week without driving. So it had started a couple of years ago in the state of Washington.

00:09:06:24 - 00:09:27:23
Darcy Kitching
But America walks helped bring it nationwide. I do some consulting work for America. So that was kind of my entree into this this week. And it was so exciting. So it was the whole first week of October, which also happens to be my birthday week. So I had a lot of fun taking the bus, bicycling and walking to work every day that week.

00:09:27:26 - 00:09:35:18
Darcy Kitching
The pictures you're showing are teams that I captured from the week. So this was my walk to get lunch from the the Chamber of Commerce.

00:09:35:18 - 00:09:37:13
Darcy Kitching
This was the bus ride home.

00:09:37:15 - 00:09:52:10
Darcy Kitching
The Chamber of Commerce building is a couple of slides back. We've got this beautiful mural on the side of the Chamber of Commerce that was done in conjunction with an organization in Boulder called Streetwise Arts, which produces amazing work and partners with local artists.

00:09:52:13 - 00:09:55:00
John Simmerman
So that really is day to day one or something.

00:09:55:00 - 00:09:58:00
Darcy Kitching
Like that, I believe. I you know, I don't remember.

00:09:58:00 - 00:10:00:03
Darcy Kitching
You have my feet up here, so let's see.

00:10:00:05 - 00:10:01:22
John Simmerman
I'm second date. Yes. So that was.

00:10:01:22 - 00:10:02:20
Darcy Kitching
The second day.

00:10:02:25 - 00:10:13:04
Darcy Kitching
And then the third day was the national walk and bike and roll to school day.

00:10:13:04 - 00:10:16:03
John Simmerman
The actual walk and rolls to school day. Yes. Perfect.

00:10:16:06 - 00:10:22:19
Darcy Kitching
Walk and roll. That's right. Bike. Bike day is in April. Yeah. So walk and roll to school day, which I have been a part of at my.

00:10:22:19 - 00:10:33:18
Darcy Kitching
Son's school for the past five years. He's in fifth grade now, so this is our last year. But I have pledged to continue to oversee this event for myself because we live so close.

00:10:33:20 - 00:10:42:18
Darcy Kitching
It is so much fun. So the district provides some snacks. They provide this poster that the kids can sign. Our elementary school is unique in that we have this amazing coffee cart.

00:10:42:18 - 00:11:04:06
Darcy Kitching
You just showed a picture. I used to go back to the coffee cart. It was amazing. We have this fantastic coffee cart that two that an Italian family who has come to our school. They volunteered at an event a couple of years ago to provide espresso. And we they ended up getting a grant to buy this. It's this coffee cart with two espresso machines.

00:11:04:08 - 00:11:05:21
Darcy Kitching
So now we bring it out with every.

00:11:05:21 - 00:11:13:04
John Simmerman
Event and to make sure that and to be sure the coffee is really for the parents. It's not for the little ones.

00:11:13:04 - 00:11:14:22
Darcy Kitching
Yes, no, it's for the parents.

00:11:14:22 - 00:11:30:26
Darcy Kitching
But how great, right? Because it's something that invites it just it's an activity asset, right? Yes. Yes. More people are willing to escort their children to school on the days when the coffee cart is out. You get this wonderful sense of community where people gather. I mean, imagine if we had a coffee.

00:11:30:26 - 00:11:37:28
Darcy Kitching
Carts in more places. So here I am, just thrilled and happy throwing up my arms in delight because it was so much fun. It's always a.

00:11:37:28 - 00:11:43:25
Darcy Kitching
Really great event. I mean, kids just mobbed that table. I baked these cookies in the shape of pedestrians.

00:11:43:25 - 00:12:06:14
Darcy Kitching
Every year they get to they get to eat pedestrian cookies. That's one of my favorite things to do. And kids just love animals. They're just plain sugar cookies, but they love them. And so I make those for the kids every year. So I'm going to keep doing this, even though this is my last my son's last year at our local elementary school.

00:12:06:14 - 00:12:07:10
Darcy Kitching
It's just a couple of blocks.

00:12:07:10 - 00:12:26:27
Darcy Kitching
From our house. And so that's another thing that, you know, I really take to heart. And it's super important to me that I live in a place where my son can walk to school. And this was not a given. I lived in this neighborhood with my family. And then last year I got divorced and I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to stay in the neighborhood.

00:12:26:27 - 00:12:47:00
Darcy Kitching
But I did my best and I found a unit that was perfect for me and my son, very close to our family home. So, you know, it all worked out so that he can keep walking to school every day and all three levels of school are within a very small block radius of our home. So he can go to middle school next year by foot.

00:12:47:00 - 00:12:55:09
Darcy Kitching
He can go to high school after that by foot. And I'm so grateful. So this is I mean, it's a real privilege that I have living in this part of Boulder.

00:12:55:11 - 00:13:21:19
John Simmerman
So let's talk a little bit about that, shall change of of trying to minimize the number of car trips that you had to take during a week. It's it's hard. I mean, it is our our built environment. Our society is not set up to make it really easy. You know, it depends. You know, it really depends on what your situation is.

00:13:21:21 - 00:13:49:18
John Simmerman
I happen to be in a situation where I rarely have to drive, and so the car just kind of sits there and then, you know, then it's available when I need to drive up to Boulder to see you and the rest of the friends up there. But talk a little bit about that experience, because you were really intentional and you were really trying and at the end of the week you learned some lessons and I know you're going to talk about it later or write about it at some point in time.

00:13:49:18 - 00:13:51:20
Darcy Kitching
But yes, you're going to have time.

00:13:51:22 - 00:14:22:09
Darcy Kitching
Yes, absolutely. Well, the National Week Without Driving was also designed because it was started by a disability rights advocacy organization in Washington state. It's really about empathy more than anything else. So the Denver streets Partnership really took this, took this up and did a lot of great events in Denver. So here in Boulder, I wanted to take a spirit of that and think about, you know, the question was, what if you couldn't drive?

00:14:22:11 - 00:14:45:04
Darcy Kitching
There are so many people in our communities who don't have the ability to drive. And because, as you just said, because our communities are so built around car access and dependance, we take it for granted so often that the car is there. It's something we can do. I happen to live on a really good bus line. I have an e-bike.

00:14:45:10 - 00:15:09:19
Darcy Kitching
I mean, I don't have any excuse not to leave the car at home most of the time. Right. This these are some of the events that I attended during the week. That's Jonathan Stahl, the founder of Walk to Connect in the Middle there. That's an organization I was a partner in for many years. Jill Logan tours on the right, who's the head of the Denver Streets Partnership, and our dear friend Don on the left.

00:15:09:19 - 00:15:33:19
Darcy Kitching
So that was great. We went to see the screening of a film and of course, the name of the film just escapes me at the moment, but we can put that in the show notes. It was a really amazing film about about the importance of Safe Streets. So, you know, this is the thing. So many people live in places where it isn't safe to walk or bike or where they just they just can't.

00:15:33:19 - 00:16:02:25
Darcy Kitching
I mean, we know looking at the National Household Travel Survey and other sources of data that people who have physical disabilities often travel at very low rates and they often have very low incomes as well. So people so a lot of people and, you know, we have this epidemic of loneliness in our culture where so many people are just kind of trapped at home or they're not able to get out and experience their, you know, their communities the way that I was here.

00:16:02:25 - 00:16:05:25
Darcy Kitching
So this was a video I took while I was biking.

00:16:05:28 - 00:16:25:04
Darcy Kitching
Down 13th Street in Boulder, which I just love. This was a day that my I had my son on the back of the bike and we were biking up to his favorite arcade. So this was something that that I that I'm grateful and lucky to be able to do. I'm so fortunate. I mean, I have the physical capability to walk and bike.

00:16:25:06 - 00:16:33:06
Darcy Kitching
I have the assets themselves, you know, an e-bike and and I live in a place that has invested in really good infrastructure.

00:16:33:12 - 00:16:36:23
Darcy Kitching
This particular bike lane may not be the most exemplary, but.

00:16:36:23 - 00:16:48:13
Darcy Kitching
You know, it's it's doable because this is also one of what we call our neighborhood green streets. So it's a pretty slow traffic street and it's a pretty quiet street. So it feels safe to to bike down. And there we are.

00:16:48:20 - 00:16:52:26
Darcy Kitching
At the arcade. His favorite place, it's called Gateway Fun Park. And so we we biked.

00:16:52:26 - 00:16:58:23
Darcy Kitching
All the way up there. And that was the first time I had ever done that. I don't know if you have the video of the danger.

00:16:58:24 - 00:17:00:01
Darcy Kitching
That if you want to show.

00:17:00:01 - 00:17:22:15
Darcy Kitching
That, I mean, it it was that last little connection. So it's a little way into here we go. So the last little connection to this place where my son loves to go is terrifying. This is a really wide highway. It's four lanes, two lanes on each side, and there's no crossing at this naturally. See this bicyclist?

00:17:22:15 - 00:17:26:08
Darcy Kitching
So I was filming this to see where that bicycle is going to go. And here we.

00:17:26:14 - 00:17:37:19
Darcy Kitching
Had to come into this facility on the north side of the highway. There's no good bike access to this place. I certainly would not want to try to walk across the highway.

00:17:37:19 - 00:17:39:04
Darcy Kitching
That would be even more terrifying.

00:17:39:09 - 00:17:45:24
Darcy Kitching
But there were people on bicycles crossing and I did the same. And it was, boy, that was the most harrowing moment I think I've ever.

00:17:45:24 - 00:17:47:16
Darcy Kitching
Had on a bike.

00:17:47:19 - 00:18:03:05
Darcy Kitching
So but, you know, it goes to show that, like we have really good infrastructure here and I'm grateful for that. And there are those missing pieces, those places where it's just hard, their hard edges, you know, and especially trying to get to.

00:18:03:08 - 00:18:06:02
John Simmerman
Especially trying to get to meaningful destinations like.

00:18:06:02 - 00:18:13:06
Darcy Kitching
Meaningful destinations for families. Exactly. So many families come to this place every day. It's open every.

00:18:13:06 - 00:18:14:20
Darcy Kitching
Single day of the year. Right.

00:18:14:22 - 00:18:23:06
Darcy Kitching
And they don't even have bike parking the bike parking the bike rack that I found there. It was totally unusable. I could not figure it out. And then a neighbor.

00:18:23:09 - 00:18:25:04
Darcy Kitching
Told me how it works, but it wouldn't work for my.

00:18:25:04 - 00:18:31:28
Darcy Kitching
Bike anyway. So I, you know, I and another bike rider just chained our bikes to the to the fence. So there was somebody.

00:18:31:28 - 00:18:40:09
Darcy Kitching
Else who was brave, who brought their kid on the bike. Her bike, my bike is the red bike in the back. So somebody else also braved that that harrowing intersection.

00:18:40:12 - 00:19:06:07
John Simmerman
You know, and you bring up a good point to on that particular intersection in that particular street. It actually is a highway. It's a state highway. It's highway 36. And so it's the main highway that heads on up along the front range, making your way to the gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park and to Lyons and then on up to Estes Park.

00:19:06:09 - 00:19:50:14
John Simmerman
And so it's one of the challenges that many cities have is they have these state highways that run right through the middle of their cities and right past schools and right past parks and right past meaningful destinations like these fun zones. And and yeah, it makes it very, very challenging. So what I like about you having gotten this job, you know, and and taking the plunge into this work that you're so passionate about and in having gone through this week and learned these lessons is that it's really easy for us, as you know, as intellectuals thinking about these things and talking about these things.

00:19:50:14 - 00:20:13:18
John Simmerman
And in your case, you're researching these things. It's really easy for us to get into onto our high horse and pontificate about things and and attitude and all that. But when we have to live it and like, do a challenge like this, it's suddenly we like, really become empathetic to the challenges of other families, especially with, you know, parents.

00:20:13:18 - 00:20:14:16
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:20:14:19 - 00:20:37:20
Darcy Kitching
Well, and especially, I mean, imagine if you were trying to negotiate these places in a wheelchair, even a, you know, a powered wheelchair. We have friends here locally who are wheelchair users and, you know, who really who really get in their bones and in their muscles that when you're heading west in Boulder, you're going uphill. And that presents a challenge.

00:20:37:20 - 00:21:04:26
Darcy Kitching
And there are trips you might avoid because you don't want to roll yourself uphill, you know. So it is you know, you have to be really conscious of the the environment. I have so appreciated the way that the National week without Driving was framed around empathy for people with with physical disabilities, really trying to understand and take to heart the the challenges that people face every day and making environment and our society better for them.

00:21:04:28 - 00:21:28:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, and you had mentioned transit and taking transit and leveraging and leaning in to transit in, you know, in my time living in Boulder and also the many times that I that I visit there, I just love that magic combination of being able to have my folding bike, my Brompton jump on the bus or jump on the train.

00:21:28:25 - 00:22:03:00
John Simmerman
Being able to take transit really just makes things so much easier. Oftentimes, I do have my car with me because I've done a road trip, you know, up from from Austin to Boulder. But once I get there, I don't want to get in the car again. Yeah. Much rather like my bike or take and take transit. Talk a little bit about that because that's one of the things that your group is really trying to help people with because if if somebody hasn't ever used transit before, it can be a bit scary.

00:22:03:02 - 00:22:33:07
Darcy Kitching
It can be. And there is a there's kind of a way of helping people learn about transit called travel training that our county partners are really great at. We have friends at this department in the county called Mobility for All, and they are fantastic at travel training and really helping people orient to to transit and bus travel and especially for people with disabilities and people who really are transit dependent at border transportation connections.

00:22:33:07 - 00:23:00:02
Darcy Kitching
We try to you know, we're working with employers and people who work in Boulder to get eco passes, which is our local bus pass, you know, just a perennial bus pass. And that picture that you were showing was from our electrifying October event, which was so fun. We were really highlighting the benefits of electric vehicles, specifically transit. So our that's.

00:23:00:02 - 00:23:00:29
Darcy Kitching
Our wonderful.

00:23:01:01 - 00:23:01:16
Darcy Kitching
Mayor.

00:23:01:16 - 00:23:06:09
Darcy Kitching
And chamber president. There are Mayor Aaron Brockett on on the right.

00:23:06:16 - 00:23:08:29
Darcy Kitching
And then we also had a hydrogen yeah.

00:23:09:01 - 00:23:10:16
Darcy Kitching
We also had a hydrogen vehicle.

00:23:10:16 - 00:23:32:05
Darcy Kitching
There, which is interesting. This hydrogen vehicle happens to be used on the campus of the National Renewable Energy Lab in Golden. And so we had a lot of people visiting. We really focused on e-bikes here as well. But the bus was from the mobility, which is based in Boulder, and they are ramping up their electric bus fleet. It's amazing.

00:23:32:05 - 00:23:49:26
Darcy Kitching
They are ramping up to nine or 12 vehicles. I forget exactly how many, but they're really pushing the electric busses, which is great. And so the woman who was standing in front of the bus, her name is Christine, she's a driver. She loves driving that electric bus because it's quiet.

00:23:49:28 - 00:23:59:05
Darcy Kitching
She talked about the difference between driving a diesel bus and driving the electric bus. And I loved her story. She was so charismatic, just like that electric bus. The kids love.

00:23:59:05 - 00:24:01:19
Darcy Kitching
It. I love it. Everybody loves the electric bus because we.

00:24:01:19 - 00:24:06:09
Darcy Kitching
Can talk to each other and it's fun. You know, she was just so animated and wonderful.

00:24:06:15 - 00:24:08:06
Darcy Kitching
And what a great thing, right, to.

00:24:08:06 - 00:24:09:21
Darcy Kitching
Love your job because you're driving a.

00:24:09:21 - 00:24:32:01
Darcy Kitching
Quiet, comfortable vehicle and you're serving people's needs so that the hot bus is one. It's a circulator here in Boulder that goes around downtown. It serves students at the University of Colorado. It serves older adults. It serves everybody who just wants to, you know, get on and off that circular route that it does. So it's a really great asset that we have here.

00:24:32:03 - 00:24:57:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned the eco pass there And and I think that it's important to really highlight and emphasize that there is that option available that you all are working with to try to connect employers to the, their employees that could benefit from, from having the eco pass. Yeah, for.

00:24:57:09 - 00:25:01:03
Darcy Kitching
Sure eco pass. I don't think you can really see it. It's too bright but yes to do it.

00:25:01:07 - 00:25:02:26
Darcy Kitching
It's now a it's a.

00:25:02:26 - 00:25:04:16
Darcy Kitching
Mobile.

00:25:04:18 - 00:25:30:04
Darcy Kitching
Eco pass now. So our regional transportation district RTD, they are switching everybody over to mobile passes and those who can't use a mobile pass on a smartphone can still use a my ride card. So we're doing a lot of those transitions right now at Boulder Transportation Connections, helping people get those passes activated. And, you know, we emphasize to employers that even if people aren't commuting by bus, the eco pass is an incredible benefit.

00:25:30:04 - 00:25:36:17
Darcy Kitching
In fact, it's one of the most cost effective benefits that any employer can provide because there are so many incentives right.

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:38:10
Darcy Kitching
Now to discounts.

00:25:38:10 - 00:25:56:29
Darcy Kitching
We have a a state alternative transportation options tax credit, which is amazing. So this is an incredible time for businesses in the Boulder area and all over Colorado to invest in transit passes. So even if your employer is only or your employees only use it to get to the airport, the holidays.

00:25:57:01 - 00:25:58:05
Darcy Kitching
You know, it still pays for.

00:25:58:05 - 00:26:04:05
Darcy Kitching
Itself, which is amazing. So it's something that everybody can use. It at some point. Yeah.

00:26:04:07 - 00:26:29:28
John Simmerman
And I know that we've we've got a few images here. Here's the Boulder Depot site in the auto station that they have there. Now, this did get shut down for a while due to the pandemic. It had been up and running prior to 2020. Am I correct in hearing that it's about ready to get started again or has it already reopened?

00:26:30:00 - 00:27:02:11
Darcy Kitching
Wow. This is part of what we are strongly advocating for. So this is Boulder Junction Station. Boulder Junction is Boulder's newest neighborhood and it is a transit oriented development. And before the pandemic, there were about four bus lines, bus routes serving this station, one to the airport, one to downtown Denver, a couple of neighborhood routes. And actually, I think there were two to Denver and a neighborhood route.

00:27:02:13 - 00:27:31:25
Darcy Kitching
So it was a service to Boulder Junction was stopped in 2020. They prioritized service elsewhere and it has not resumed yet. So we have been strongly advocating for RTD to return at least two of those bus routes to the station. The other four that goes to Denver's Civic Center station and the AP to I believe I forgot, it's the I think that's for the airport.

00:27:31:25 - 00:27:50:16
Darcy Kitching
But yeah, it goes to the airport, at least those two. So this neighborhood is being built out right now. There are already thousands of people who live in this neighborhood, but more buildings. If I had take it, if I turned around and taken a picture on the west side of the street here, you'd see all these buildings under construction.

00:27:50:19 - 00:27:51:21
Darcy Kitching
Yeah. In fact.

00:27:51:23 - 00:28:02:27
John Simmerman
If we zoom out of this, if we zoom out of this, too, you'll see that the all the buildings in this area are just like this. They are, you know, four and five story.

00:28:03:00 - 00:28:23:12
Darcy Kitching
There for a high density neighborhood. But there are different styles. And it's a really it's a really cool urban neighborhood. You know, it's there's a lot going on there and it's a really interesting place and I'm super excited about it. I was actually on a community focus group for Boulder Junction Phase two. I think it's just a fascinating project and something that we really need to invest in.

00:28:23:12 - 00:28:25:18
Darcy Kitching
And so bringing transit.

00:28:25:21 - 00:28:27:10
Darcy Kitching
Back to our transit oriented.

00:28:27:10 - 00:29:15:25
Darcy Kitching
Development, which is something that our governor Jared Polis, is really emphasizing in his budget for next year, you know, that that piece of making sure that transit is accessible, attainable, is consistent and reliable. Those are the things that are going to help people move into and choose to live in these kinds of neighborhoods. Now, what you're showing here, pictures that I took during a tour, an e-bike tour that we are my organization and another organization hosted at Community Cycles and a couple of others hosted during the week without driving for the Transportation Legislation Review Committee, which is a group of state legislators who are, you know, all informed about the transportation legislation.

00:29:15:25 - 00:29:18:07
Darcy Kitching
That's that's up for review.

00:29:18:09 - 00:29:20:17
Darcy Kitching
And so they came up to Boulder.

00:29:20:20 - 00:29:21:26
Darcy Kitching
And we gave them a.

00:29:21:26 - 00:29:22:24
Darcy Kitching
Wonderful.

00:29:22:26 - 00:29:24:05
Darcy Kitching
E-bike tour. And I think I.

00:29:24:05 - 00:29:27:23
Darcy Kitching
Included a little video. It was so cute that everybody was.

00:29:27:23 - 00:29:31:29
Darcy Kitching
On a bicycle, which is our local bike share organization.

00:29:32:02 - 00:29:36:01
Darcy Kitching
And they were all loving the little bells, you know, and having a good time.

00:29:36:01 - 00:29:50:02
Darcy Kitching
And we showcased the infrastructure between Boulder Junction and the Boulder Chamber. So where I work. So that was it was a really fun tour. And we stopped at community cycles along the way and looked at some of those fun projects.

00:29:50:04 - 00:29:52:18
John Simmerman
Here's the video of of them.

00:29:52:20 - 00:29:53:21
Darcy Kitching
So this is one of the little.

00:29:53:21 - 00:29:53:28
Darcy Kitching
Ball.

00:29:53:28 - 00:29:56:27
Darcy Kitching
About on Spruce Street.

00:29:56:27 - 00:30:21:02
John Simmerman
Bruce Yeah, yeah, it is. Bruce Yeah. One of the interesting things to about that location, the Boulder Junction location, is, is we were looking at the old original train depot that was called the Boulder Depot, that's the train building, and it has been rebuilt in that location. It's actually been taken down and rebuilt multiple times.

00:30:21:02 - 00:30:22:11
Darcy Kitching
It's I'm sure.

00:30:22:13 - 00:31:01:07
John Simmerman
It's been all over the place. All over the city. Yeah. But the reason why it's there and the reason why that neighborhood was built up as a tod where it was, is that is the location where we do expect to have the rail stop. That would be where you know, that that rail that we were referencing and the rail that that we voted for way back in 2004 when I was still living in NIWA because NIWA would have also been one of the train stops and it's one of the original whistle stops, you know, on, on rail in the area.

00:31:01:07 - 00:31:05:01
John Simmerman
So yeah, fingers crossed that this actually does happen.

00:31:05:03 - 00:31:17:06
Darcy Kitching
Yeah. right. Fingers crossed. I mean, it really would be an incredible, incredible asset. So we're, you know, we're, we're all for it. And I hope that it continues to develop successfully.

00:31:17:08 - 00:31:37:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Well, let's leverage those federal dollars and make it happen. So you mentioned the AB bus and being able to get to the airport and that was that's always one of my favorite ways of getting to and from the airport when I do fly and I do fly every every once in a while, sometimes I'll I'll drive up and leave the car there and then fly home.

00:31:37:11 - 00:31:48:08
John Simmerman
And then after a month or so, you know, fly back. And so when I a do fly, I can't remember the last time I was in a motor vehicle, you know, going to and from the airport.

00:31:48:10 - 00:31:50:08
Darcy Kitching
You you don't want to drive to the airport.

00:31:50:11 - 00:31:57:00
John Simmerman
And it's like it's so easy to do that. But so you're all packed up and ready to go here. Where are you headed?

00:31:57:02 - 00:32:01:26
Darcy Kitching
That's right. So at the end of October, I mean, October was an incredible month for me.

00:32:01:26 - 00:32:05:03
Darcy Kitching
So this is why I really do need to devote some time to an article about all.

00:32:05:03 - 00:32:09:12
Darcy Kitching
These adventures, because at the end of October, this was October 21st, I.

00:32:09:12 - 00:32:10:15
Darcy Kitching
Took the bus.

00:32:10:17 - 00:32:16:18
Darcy Kitching
To the airport with my backpack. I think I had a £15.

00:32:16:21 - 00:32:19:08
Darcy Kitching
36 liter backpack.

00:32:19:10 - 00:32:42:09
Darcy Kitching
Packed with everything I needed for a weeklong trip on the Camino de Santiago in Spain. I walked to the last 120 kilometers, so about 90 miles of the Camino. It was fantastic. We walked between the cities of Soria and Santiago, and that's the arguably.

00:32:42:09 - 00:32:44:14
Darcy Kitching
The most beautiful and most ancient.

00:32:44:16 - 00:32:55:22
Darcy Kitching
Part of the Camino Francaise, which starts at Saint John in France. So we met a lot of people along the way who had started in Saint John, and we're walking the full 500 miles and I.

00:32:55:22 - 00:33:05:24
Darcy Kitching
Would give anything to have a month to go and walk the four or 500 miles. But I don't have a month right now to do that. So I took a week and walked the last.

00:33:05:26 - 00:33:27:20
Darcy Kitching
The last 90 miles. And it was it was just incredible. Right? So we started in Soria, which is I don't see it on here. It's probably a little too small. It's just past Leon passed around Astorga, so yeah. So we walked that last little section and it was quite, quite the adventure.

00:33:27:22 - 00:33:34:07
John Simmerman
Wow, that's great. Yeah. I love this. This map too. This is a fun article.

00:33:34:09 - 00:33:35:12
Darcy Kitching
Yeah. There.

00:33:35:12 - 00:33:38:12
Darcy Kitching
And you can see all the caminos. Right? There are.

00:33:38:12 - 00:33:40:07
John Simmerman
Yeah, there's a bunch of them. Yes.

00:33:40:09 - 00:33:42:13
Darcy Kitching
Yeah. So many different routes. You can even take a.

00:33:42:13 - 00:33:55:24
Darcy Kitching
Boat from England. You know. And that still counts as doing the Camino. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have your passport. I saw the taking a picture of my little passport, you know, and you get stamps along the way. You stop and you have to get at least two stamps a day.

00:33:55:24 - 00:34:04:06
Darcy Kitching
In your passport. You have to walk at least 100 kilometers. You have to travel at least 100 kilometers to get your official stamp in Santiago at the cathedral.

00:34:04:06 - 00:34:07:12
Darcy Kitching
And so I was grateful to get that.

00:34:07:15 - 00:34:21:03
John Simmerman
So so you mentioned, you know, you mentioned Leon. And so, you know, we this gives us a little bit of an idea of some of the city locations and what these look like.

00:34:21:06 - 00:35:01:17
Darcy Kitching
So I took these pictures to show specifically to illustrate the mix of uses, but also the mix of modes. One of the most distinctive characteristics of all these old cities in Spain, and this was all in Galicia, which is sort of northwestern Spain, but, you know, this is reminiscent of any old European city, right? You see the same kinds of things where in the old part of the city, you've got narrow streets that are populated mostly by people and vehicles are not necessarily prohibited in some places they are, but in some places they are allowed.

00:35:01:17 - 00:35:24:29
Darcy Kitching
But they are guests. And we've talked about this before, and I know that many of your guests on this podcast have really emphasized that how important it is to design places, at least central places where people dominate and cars are guests. And so delivery vehicles or, you know, personal vehicles like this one, we are trying to get to a hotel or trying to get to work or whatever.

00:35:24:29 - 00:35:51:27
Darcy Kitching
They're just super, super slow. And this is a maximum of 20 kilometers an hour. I mean, super slow, right? Like ten or 15 miles an hour. This was in, Leon. This was an incredibly I loved the city so much because the old the ancient medieval walls of this city are still largely intact in many places. You know, those walls there is the pattern of where the wall was.

00:35:51:27 - 00:36:15:23
Darcy Kitching
But not necessarily the wall itself. This is the actual original or part of the original city wall. And I took this picture again to show here are these beautiful cobblestone streets. There are vehicles that can go in there, but they are mostly populated by people, and people have the widest areas to traverse. They have they dominate they are the first and foremost occupants of that space.

00:36:15:26 - 00:36:35:26
Darcy Kitching
And people who are driving just have to creep along and be patient. I heard no horn honking. I and I saw some really interesting things to too in this city and others. We went to Burgos, we went to Lyon and other places. I saw cars like drive into the first floor of buildings. There are some really unassuming.

00:36:35:26 - 00:36:37:29
Darcy Kitching
Garages, you know, some interesting places.

00:36:38:02 - 00:36:48:28
Darcy Kitching
This was in Burgos and I took this picture because this is a trash truck, you know, And imagine I mean, this is the size of a van, You.

00:36:48:28 - 00:36:51:27
Darcy Kitching
Know, a normal American like minibus.

00:36:51:27 - 00:36:56:18
Darcy Kitching
Right. And it had a, you know, a backside that was all like, you know, open.

00:36:56:24 - 00:36:58:24
Darcy Kitching
And here's one of the workers on the left.

00:36:58:24 - 00:37:19:00
Darcy Kitching
And these streets are narrow and they're they've got these nice pavers and everything. And so this this truck is just traveling very respectfully through that area. They're collecting trash from the bins, putting it in the back of the truck and moving on. You know, it it it just perfectly illustrated how, you know, we.

00:37:19:02 - 00:37:19:16
Darcy Kitching
We get.

00:37:19:16 - 00:37:43:29
Darcy Kitching
So hung up on the size of our vehicles. You know, our emergency vehicles are massive, our waste vehicles are massive. And that the size of those vehicles actually dictates the width of our streets. So we have to start downsizing our emergency vehicles and our waste vehicles and other service vehicles so that we can downsize and restrict.

00:37:43:29 - 00:37:44:21
John Simmerman
Our personal.

00:37:44:21 - 00:37:47:04
Darcy Kitching
Vehicles, maybe even our personal.

00:37:47:04 - 00:37:52:17
Darcy Kitching
People. This is something I myself did. I don't know if I've told you this story that my my.

00:37:52:17 - 00:37:55:25
Darcy Kitching
Subaru Outback died.

00:37:55:27 - 00:37:59:29
Darcy Kitching
So I replaced it with a Honda Fit, which is a tiny little car. And I love it.

00:37:59:29 - 00:38:07:00
Darcy Kitching
Because now I can actually park in my garage and just leave it in there. I forgot about it. So I love that 6008 out of mine.

00:38:07:01 - 00:38:08:26
John Simmerman
I just lose my bike, you know?

00:38:08:29 - 00:38:11:02
Darcy Kitching
It's so great, right? I love it.

00:38:11:04 - 00:38:21:00
Darcy Kitching
And it is tiny. And that driving that vehicle, I tell you, has changed my driving habits and has changed my relationship to streets if more and I'm surrounded by massive.

00:38:21:00 - 00:38:24:02
Darcy Kitching
Trucks and other, you know, vehicles that people love here and.

00:38:24:04 - 00:38:52:06
Darcy Kitching
In Boulder, boy, if everybody downsized their cars, we would have a really different relationship up to each other. But that last slide I was trying to document in these cities that we visited, the way the different modes interact. So I have this picture of a bicyclist, a walker and a car all you know perfectly well getting along in that space and doing this dance that was quite, you know, quite slow, quite respectful and really emphasized the spaces for people.

00:38:52:06 - 00:38:54:26
Darcy Kitching
So I was it was fun to document that.

00:38:54:29 - 00:39:28:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't want it to seem like the Camino was all about the city centers. I know some photos it took for me through this conversation. So. So talk about this experience. I mean, a lot of people talk about this as being almost like a spiritual journey. Talk a little bit about what your experiences were like as we, you know, scroll through some of these beautiful, you know, images from the trail.

00:39:28:17 - 00:40:04:13
Darcy Kitching
Well, the Camino de Santiago and all the Camino is they are a spiritual journey. However, one wants to define that because when you set out on foot to traverse a long distance, at least 100 kilometers, you're dedicating yourself to moving at your natural pace. And this brings up all kinds of things. I mean, for me, it was an incredibly healing experience and being in this beautiful natural landscape most of the time.

00:40:04:15 - 00:40:35:22
Darcy Kitching
So, yes, we traversed cities, we walked through, we had to follow the trail and the trail is very well Mark, too. There are these shell symbols and yellow arrows that you follow. It's beautifully marked, but you go through agricultural land, you go through these ancient tree tunnels. And I shared some of those images with you of just the it you can't help have a spiritual experience when you're in a place like this where you're surrounded by trees that are hundreds or thousands of years old.

00:40:35:24 - 00:41:00:09
Darcy Kitching
These walls that are angel. But the path itself is carved into the land by millions of feet over, you know, a thousand years, right? 2000 a year, not 2000 years ago, you know, a thousand years or so. But there are these symbols along the way that mark your distance and the kilometers, basically, the they show you how many kilometers are left.

00:41:00:15 - 00:41:02:25
Darcy Kitching
To go to Santiago. So they count.

00:41:02:25 - 00:41:26:00
Darcy Kitching
Down as you go. I happened to be there at a very rainy time. It rained every but not all day, every day. So the benefit of that was that we got these beautiful rainbows and we had you know, there was it was misty and it was quiet and it was the end of the season. We were there between October 23rd and November 1st.

00:41:26:00 - 00:41:56:11
Darcy Kitching
We arrived in Santiago, October 31st, the eve of All Saints Day, so that we could celebrate the Celtic New Year. I hadn't known that Galicia in Spain was actually the Celtic, the origin of the Celtic people. I didn't know that. So the Celtic people came from the Iberian Peninsula and went over to the British Isles. And how amazing, you know when you say, Yeah, you're saying, you know, the Gauls.

00:41:56:17 - 00:42:20:28
Darcy Kitching
So the Gaul and all that, you know the these, there were these Celtic symbols everywhere. They're very proud of that history. And so it was, it was spiritual in that way as well because of the, the thousands of years of, of both Celtic and Christian patterns and history is in these places. And there were the reverence for the natural environment.

00:42:21:00 - 00:42:26:18
Darcy Kitching
And I tell you, when we got to Santiago, I mean this these tree tunnels were just stunning. I could not help.

00:42:26:18 - 00:42:30:09
Darcy Kitching
But take several pictures every day of the trees and the path.

00:42:30:09 - 00:42:58:10
Darcy Kitching
Itself because it was so stunningly beautiful. And I just wanted to remember what it felt like in that place and what it smelled like it was. It was rich and earthy and and humid, you know, and all of these. And there were there were smells of, you know, fruits and and agricultural scents and really interesting sensory experience. And so I was very present very much in my body, very reverent.

00:42:58:10 - 00:43:09:00
Darcy Kitching
I mean, that's that's a word that keeps coming up for me, because when you're when you're doing a trip like this, you're so you're in your body. I wasn't the people ask me, did you listen to podcasts or.

00:43:09:08 - 00:43:12:16
Darcy Kitching
No, I had no earbuds in. I didn't listen to any.

00:43:12:19 - 00:43:22:09
Darcy Kitching
I guess you're you're talking to people along the way. So, yes, I was with a small group. We had eight of us with two leaders. That's me on the left with my umbrella.

00:43:22:09 - 00:43:28:17
Darcy Kitching
It did Rain and one of my friends here in Boulder who had just done the Camino Primitivo, which is kind of both challenging.

00:43:28:17 - 00:43:31:07
Darcy Kitching
Wrote to Santiago. He said, you might want to pack an umbrella.

00:43:31:09 - 00:43:40:13
Darcy Kitching
Travel umbrella. So I'm glad you told me that, because I did. I didn't have to buy one of these giant ponchos that some of my my fellow Peregrines did.

00:43:40:15 - 00:44:03:00
Darcy Kitching
But we all kind of walked to different pieces as well. And I was one of the two kind of faster walkers. And so most of the time I was on my own. And that experience of being out there on my own, just listening to the sounds of the birds and the rain and the animals and the crunch of the stones under my feet and the sounds, you know, the urban sounds.

00:44:03:00 - 00:44:18:16
Darcy Kitching
When we went through cities it was so the reverence just resonated, you know, through my whole body. And I'm I have that inclination anyway. I love long walks. I love being in touch with my my body and my feet and the land around me.

00:44:18:16 - 00:44:19:24
Darcy Kitching
This is why I got so involved.

00:44:19:24 - 00:44:22:09
Darcy Kitching
In Walk to Connect, because I am a.

00:44:22:11 - 00:44:25:14
Darcy Kitching
Person who likes to walk, to connect to myself and to.

00:44:25:14 - 00:44:49:24
Darcy Kitching
Others and to the places around me. So that experience to me is very sacred and something that I, I was so grateful to have the time to do. So I was gone for a total of two weeks, but we were walking for one week and just got to have that wonderful experience. So when we entered Santiago, what struck me was, you know, of course, the joy of all the people who would walked the four or five.

00:44:49:24 - 00:44:52:24
Darcy Kitching
Hundred mile Camino Francaise meeting each other in the.

00:44:52:26 - 00:44:53:17
Darcy Kitching
The cathedral.

00:44:53:17 - 00:44:58:11
Darcy Kitching
Square and rejoicing and hugging each other and saying hi after, you know, weeks of walking.

00:44:58:11 - 00:45:29:17
Darcy Kitching
Together. What struck me more than anything was just the power of a place that has been built on the walked prayers of so many thousands and thousands and millions of people. I took this picture because this is etched into the stones. As we entered Santiago, I took a picture of the English phrase. It was in many different languages, but it says Europe was made on the Pilgrim road to Compostela.

00:45:29:20 - 00:46:07:11
Darcy Kitching
And if you take this to heart, what that really means to me is that walking, you know, moving, actively being, it's the human movement that has built our places and especially, you know, our European places and other, you know, places in other parts of the world that were similarly built by by, you know, people on foot, people on horseback, creating these narrow pathways, these multi-use districts, these places where everything happens in one place and it's all accessible to everyone.

00:46:07:14 - 00:46:32:22
Darcy Kitching
This was a picture I took of a school street in Santiago, so I went wandering after we had a couple of days there, and I was really grateful to have some time to explore Santiago, which is an absolutely beautiful ancient city. And I loved I loved exploring it. So on the school street, curiously there, you know, this was a really nice, narrow path, very well marked and lots of, you know, reminders.

00:46:32:22 - 00:46:33:02
Darcy Kitching
To.

00:46:33:02 - 00:46:41:11
Darcy Kitching
Drivers to be very slow and respectful. As I was coming around, I did a sort of a loop around the street. I was coming around the other side.

00:46:41:13 - 00:46:54:01
Darcy Kitching
The very narrow streets that led to my hotel was choked with cars, having picked up children at the school. You know.

00:46:54:03 - 00:46:58:15
Darcy Kitching
It looks it looks so great, doesn't it? So even here in narrow.

00:46:58:15 - 00:47:00:15
Darcy Kitching
Tiny little Santiago.

00:47:00:18 - 00:47:05:27
Darcy Kitching
Parents are driving their cars and they're sitting in traffic and you're choking on fumes.

00:47:06:00 - 00:47:13:06
Darcy Kitching
So this is something that, you know, has happened and some of the even places that do not facilitate it. Yeah, it's happening.

00:47:13:09 - 00:47:13:24
John Simmerman
It's it's.

00:47:14:02 - 00:47:15:26
Darcy Kitching
So disappointing. Yes.

00:47:16:03 - 00:47:21:08
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's a disappointment. But it's also it's it's universal. The challenge that.

00:47:21:09 - 00:47:48:23
Darcy Kitching
We have, it's the universal challenge of time. Right? This is another thing that we emphasized. I want to connect with the importance of slowing our lives down to three miles an hour for so many people that just still doesn't feel possible. But what if it did? You know, what if we really could slow our lives down so that we would be walking on these school streets so that we would be accompanying our elders and our children and our friends with disabilities?

00:47:48:26 - 00:47:50:28
Darcy Kitching
So personally, you know.

00:47:51:00 - 00:48:10:24
John Simmerman
You knew how excited I was when you told me that you were doing the Camino, and I was just tickled to death for you. And I knew that you were going to have an amazing time there. But I immediately wanted to know if you were going to be able to get to this place.

00:48:10:26 - 00:48:16:17
Darcy Kitching
Yes. Yes. Well, and what is special about pentameter to you?

00:48:16:19 - 00:48:46:11
John Simmerman
It is well known as a city that, you know, where the mayor had fought to push, you know, cars out from the historic city center. And it's one of the places in one of my other past guests here on the on the podcast, Cathy Tuttle had spent quite a bit of time there, had met with the vice mayor, a deputy mayor, and spent some time there.

00:48:46:14 - 00:49:17:19
John Simmerman
And to me, it's just a truly fascinating story. And in its in it's not necessarily a news story. It's been going on for for many years. I mean, this is an article by David Zipper back in September of 23. And you can see here that, you know, this is a major thing that took place. And so it's it's not the entire city, of course.

00:49:17:21 - 00:49:42:10
John Simmerman
Right. But it's it's the you know, it's kind of like it is in some of these other places. But I just love some of the classic one liners from, you know, from the mayor. You know, it's like, you know, I'm not going to you know, I can't help on misquoted, but something along the lines of, you know, just because you have a car doesn't mean you get to store it out here.

00:49:42:10 - 00:49:49:14
John Simmerman
You know, if you have something you need to put in the refrigerator, I'm not going to provide you with a refrigerator or so right now.

00:49:49:14 - 00:50:04:16
Darcy Kitching
I love that. And I really appreciate that. The leadership of this city has emphasized the qualities that are inherent to so many of these ancient cities. You know, so I did what prompted me to go to point of order. I was not even you, John.

00:50:04:16 - 00:50:06:28
Darcy Kitching
I don't think you said, hey, you should go to Padova.

00:50:07:03 - 00:50:30:13
Darcy Kitching
No, it was actually a friend of mine here in Boulder. We have, you know, I'm sure that you know of Spencer Hamlet. You probably know him. He's a, you know, a retired professor from the University of Colorado who is in an environmental design. He is a landscape architect and really still very active. He had been on city council and had advocated for and I think helped develop many of our multi-use power systems here in Boulder.

00:50:30:20 - 00:50:43:10
Darcy Kitching
A real advocate for places for people. And so a friend of mine, a mutual friend of ours, had said, hey, you're going to end up in Santiago. You'll be a short train ride away from Punch Metro. Why don't you go check it out?

00:50:43:13 - 00:50:44:06
Darcy Kitching
And so it was.

00:50:44:06 - 00:50:49:13
Darcy Kitching
Funny because I arranged to do that. I bought a train ticket before I even left on the trip. And I told my.

00:50:49:15 - 00:50:55:05
Darcy Kitching
Fellow, You know, Pellegrino is on the on our trip that I was going to take this train trip. And they said, you know, one of.

00:50:55:05 - 00:50:57:04
Darcy Kitching
The guys was like, Why are you going there?

00:50:57:04 - 00:51:00:13
Darcy Kitching
It's no different than any other place. And so I said.

00:51:00:13 - 00:51:27:17
Darcy Kitching
Well, I just want to check it out. And, you know, yes, truly so feel particularly distinctive because I had already walked through several Spanish that had very similar characteristics of that, you know, predominantly car free city center, especially Burgos, which actually is still very walled. And you can't drive in there at all except for those those service vehicles.

00:51:27:19 - 00:51:42:00
Darcy Kitching
But it was fun. So first of all, I wanted to take a commuter rail ride because I love writing trains. So I got to do that. And then it was really fun to explore part of it. Right? This is the church of the Petrina. I wanted to go there because.

00:51:42:00 - 00:51:44:26
Darcy Kitching
You know, here I was a pedigree now, you know, and I wanted to go to the.

00:51:44:26 - 00:52:24:11
Darcy Kitching
City that had a very feminine orientation to the Camino. This is the Church of the Peregrine, and there's also a convent adjacent to this church. So I wandered in there and happened upon a kind of midday service. And that was beautiful. And this is right in the center of the old city. But what was distinctive about this, if you go to some of the first pictures, I think the one that I labeled with a one is right when I got off the commuter rail train and I left the train station, you know, it was so very clearly marked where the Camino led through the city of point of entry.

00:52:24:12 - 00:52:53:13
Darcy Kitching
So the Camino in every city so is actually in front of Edra. The Camino is the Camino Portuguese. So this is the Camino Camino de Santiago that leads up from Porto in Portugal and so this is on the Camino Portuguese and you leave the the train station and immediately you can see right away, here's where it goes. The Camino in every city is rooted to the oldest, most interesting parts of those cities.

00:52:53:15 - 00:53:15:20
Darcy Kitching
And so, you know, they've built these very moderate it's quite a modern city, actually, just adjacent to the very center of the city. So it's quite modern. But I think what is distinctive about it is in that ness, as they rebuild it, a lot of the city perhaps following, you know, I don't know, maybe they were hit by the, you know, urban.

00:53:15:20 - 00:53:17:25
Darcy Kitching
Renewal bug like we were. I'm not sure exactly.

00:53:17:25 - 00:53:57:06
Darcy Kitching
What prompted all of this modernization, but even with that, there are very wide thoroughfares for pedestrians. It's very well marked. It's comfortable. It's away from the car streets, the main arterials and the the train is very accessible. The center of the city is so easy to find. And so it was really quite, quite delightful because I think what's what spent have like here in Boulder thought about when he visited this place was we could do this because it feels more American in some ways because of all that modernization, it feels attainable.

00:53:57:06 - 00:54:20:15
Darcy Kitching
It feels like, okay, you don't have to have all these ancient buildings you can also build it into. Yeah, so this is a good example of that. So these are these modern buildings and here's here's this this beautiful wide pathway that you can bike on or you can walk on. There's great access to all the multi-use buildings in this area, lots of cafes, lots of interesting shops, lots of apartments.

00:54:20:17 - 00:54:28:15
Darcy Kitching
And it led right to the city center where that old church is. So I really appreciate appreciated that. I'm glad that I got to go there and.

00:54:28:15 - 00:54:37:18
Darcy Kitching
I'm glad that it didn't rain the whole time I was there. It was clear. Yeah. Or at least now it was clear for an hour or so. And then it started pouring. When I headed back to the train.

00:54:37:18 - 00:54:53:22
Darcy Kitching
But Yeah, but you know, it was, it was a great experience. The train ride was only 40 minutes and so I got to, you know, a wonderful time and then I, I hopped on the train back to Santiago and then I flew back to where I was traveling home so that this was my last day in Spain.

00:54:53:24 - 00:55:19:18
John Simmerman
I'm really glad that you pointed that out. And and I had that instinct of thinking that, you know, there's probably many other cities that, you know, have these beautiful, you know, car light and maybe even car free central areas. I think what really resonated for me in reading the stories about Ponte Vedra was the fact that there was that battle, there was the push back.

00:55:19:18 - 00:55:53:16
John Simmerman
There was you know, there were the people who were were calling the mayor out and saying, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? And he just said, I ran on this platform. If you don't like it, vote me out. And he's, you know, decade after decade, he continues to has been continuing to serve. And and I think to to your point is that it probably is like, okay, well, this isn't truly special, but what is special about this is that there is that an analog of being able to say, we can do this in North America too?

00:55:53:19 - 00:55:54:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, we just have it.

00:55:54:27 - 00:56:10:07
Darcy Kitching
So Of course you know your. Yeah, it felt more familiar than some of the other cities. I put a couple other pictures in here of that actually. It felt a lot like central Denver to me in some ways because they were you know, it looked it had that kind of look and feel of like the 16th.

00:56:10:07 - 00:56:12:01
Darcy Kitching
Street Mall, you know, which is a pedestrian.

00:56:12:01 - 00:56:33:17
Darcy Kitching
Mall. And so, you know, but but but the difference is that it's so well connected to everything around it that that pedestrian infrastructure does not stop after ten blocks. You know, it actually radiates out from the center of the city so that you have access. Now, this is one of the older streets. So there is a lot of ancient ness to this place as well.

00:56:33:17 - 00:56:39:06
Darcy Kitching
There's the old churches, the convent, there's the the, you know, the really old places. But this is what felt like Denver to me.

00:56:39:06 - 00:56:42:09
Darcy Kitching
I took those pictures. I was like, Wow, I feel like I'm home, you know?

00:56:42:09 - 00:57:06:04
Darcy Kitching
So it's got that distinctive paving and it kind of radiates out. And this interesting star pattern where you can, you know, you can go a long way on all of these high streets, you know, shopping streets. And it was very busy. And there were there was a lot going on on the street, which is so exciting. I mean, if nothing else, I just want us to bring street life back.

00:57:06:10 - 00:57:33:21
Darcy Kitching
You know, we had this we had this at one time, you know, as as urban as we want to see communities reconvene around streets, Right. I mean, how amazing will it be? And I know that it will be we saw this during the pandemic that we can do this right. We can reorient our streets and our street life to facilitate the needs of people every day.

00:57:33:23 - 00:58:05:13
Darcy Kitching
And what I love about Europe, wherever I visit, is that those qualities are very concrete, They're very attainable. You know, it just feels good to be there without a vehicle because you can get you know, you can get wherever you need to go. You can learn how to ride transit, you can figure it out. You know, and you can talk to people and you encounter people and you have these wonderful opportunities to engage in social life and to just take in the ambiance of a beautiful urban environment.

00:58:05:15 - 00:58:08:08
Darcy Kitching
It was an incredible treat.

00:58:08:11 - 00:58:26:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had the opportunity to enjoy some of the ambiance of a city, as did the Denver City streets together in July. And that was a great deal of fun hanging out with you two down there.

00:58:26:15 - 00:58:31:29
Darcy Kitching
Wasn't that amazing? I mean, even in Denver, even on Broadway, this.

00:58:31:29 - 00:58:36:01
Darcy Kitching
You know, wide, you know, it's state highway again, you know, I.

00:58:36:01 - 00:59:00:03
Darcy Kitching
Mean, incredible, right? How amazing to remake that for people and to make it intentional. It was so successful and so much fun. And I just want to see more of that at all the transportation connections we've been talking about, reviving the the green streets and open streets. And so we're on it and we want to partner with you on this.

00:59:00:03 - 00:59:01:04
Darcy Kitching
We're going to make it happen.

00:59:01:09 - 00:59:06:23
Darcy Kitching
Boss is all about that. So our our our director is all about.

00:59:06:23 - 00:59:30:22
Darcy Kitching
Bringing back open streets and as a way to orient people to all the transportation options that we have, but also just to create that social space, you know, that street, that social space, if you don't have that and if you don't have the placemaking qualities that really make streets and places interesting, you're not necessarily going to choose to travel actively.

00:59:30:22 - 00:59:58:00
Darcy Kitching
Right? Traveling actively is often predicated on the the surrounding environment, the quality of the surrounding environment. How interesting is it, how populated is it, how much art and how many amenities are there? Because traveling actively takes more time, it takes more effort, but it can be so much more rewarding. So that's what we want to highlight and where we're going to make it happen.

00:59:58:02 - 00:59:59:16
John Simmerman
Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

00:59:59:17 - 01:00:00:07
Darcy Kitching
It ends.

01:00:00:07 - 01:00:15:12
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Darcy, thank you so very much. I am so delighted to have you back on the Active Towns podcast. It's been so much fun catching up and yeah, I can't wait to see what's next in 2024 for you.

01:00:15:14 - 01:00:24:08
Darcy Kitching
Absolutely need to. And thank you so much, John. I really appreciate our ongoing conversation and you inspire me every day. So thank you so much.

01:00:24:12 - 01:00:38:18
John Simmerman
He thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button below and ring the notifications.

01:00:38:21 - 01:00:59:12
John Simmerman
And if you've been enjoying this content and would like to see more, please consider supporting my efforts out on Patreon. Buy me a Coffee YouTube Super. Thanks. As well as buying things from the active town store and making donations to the nonprofit, you can reach all of that just by clicking on the Active Towns website at two towns Ohaji.

01:00:59:14 - 01:01:23:07
John Simmerman
And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you to all my active town's ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron Buy me a coffee YouTube super Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:01:23:10 - 01:01:24:17
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.