Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:41:07
Ronnie Harris
I think it's ever increasingly important that we, in our attempt to establish and empower folk to, live in flourishing communities. I think it's important for us to underscore how powerful it is, for folk to have what you and I have had when we were in Denver, what you and I have had when we were in Austin, what you and I are having right now, to have these opportunities where we sit at a common table and really have the wherewithal with mutuality, mutual respect for one another, have some very deep and profound conversations about how we could move forward into the future.

00:00:41:10 - 00:01:08:02
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman, and that is my good friend Ronnie Harris from Gulfport, Mississippi, and the Sacred Roots organization. We're going to be talking a little bit about active mobility and how he is trying to, revitalize a district right there in his hometown of Gulfport, Mississippi. It is a fabulous discussion and includes a little bit of Dutch cycling and other surprising elements.

00:01:08:03 - 00:01:14:24
John Simmerman
So let's get right to it with Ronnie.

00:01:14:26 - 00:01:19:00
John Simmerman
Ronnie, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. Welcome.

00:01:19:02 - 00:01:20:24
Ronnie Harris
It's good to be here. Thank you.

00:01:20:26 - 00:01:30:10
John Simmerman
Ronnie, I love to give my guest just an opportunity to introduce themselves. So what's the 32nd elevator pitch? This to who Ronnie Harris is.

00:01:30:12 - 00:02:03:21
Ronnie Harris
What a great question. It begins always for me with my upbringing. My parents. I'm the son of the Mississippi soil. But I was raised in Chicago. My dad, a retired, city worker for the Water Reclamation department, former third Ward precinct captain, the, the family business is organizing. My mom, a retired, worker at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she was supposed to be ultimately, changing beds.

00:02:03:21 - 00:02:23:26
Ronnie Harris
But ultimately, my mother is a missionary Christian missionary by trade. So, she was confused as to what her job should be cleaning beds or talking to folks and encouraging them about hope in the future. And so that's sort of my upbringing, who I am, whether it was organizing and or caring for people, it's just in my DNA.

00:02:23:29 - 00:02:27:12
John Simmerman
And I see you played, some ball to.

00:02:27:15 - 00:02:49:07
Ronnie Harris
That's right, that's right. So my, younger years, like so many inner city kids, I had aspirations to go pro until I discovered that was just not in the cards for me. But I did play junior high ball in high school ball in Gulfport, Mississippi. I'm still proud of that. We were two time basketball champions. And you'll see number 35.

00:02:49:08 - 00:03:17:21
Ronnie Harris
There is much more to do. Ruth, who became one of the most, recognizable standout NBA greats of all time. So he was there. And in fact, I think it was 1991. Three of the men on this young man basketball team in high school were playing on pro teams in Denver, Colorado. Wow.

00:03:17:21 - 00:03:18:20
John Simmerman
So I.

00:03:18:22 - 00:03:45:19
Ronnie Harris
Am very, very, very proud of these gentlemen. We often have an opportunity to get back, the gentleman there and the the Browns, cap, retired, Army veteran, of Foreign service and war is now our state representative. That's moving the Middle Shaheed to the far left is, quite the entrepreneur and businessman, and so is the brother in the black.

00:03:45:19 - 00:04:07:18
Ronnie Harris
And so, at a local level here in our small town, we are very active, as you can see, I think depicted in this picture asked to come together to see that our town is a town that is on the move, where we're, we're we're really basically trying to give back to so many folks that gave so much to us during their upbringing.

00:04:07:20 - 00:04:10:15
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And we've got a yeah.

00:04:10:21 - 00:04:36:04
Ronnie Harris
Oh my gosh. Yeah. That fellow there. You know, when I look at that picture I can't help but to often think, wow, he man what he thought he knew. Oh my gosh. So that's 1989. I was stationed on the east west German border in, in Germany, which dates me, but but I don't mind. And.

00:04:36:09 - 00:04:38:13
John Simmerman
Which branch, which branches service.

00:04:38:15 - 00:05:02:12
Ronnie Harris
So that's U.S. Army. Okay. So I was in the U.S. Army, but, but assigned to a pretty cool military unit that was again assigned to do borders security, on the east west German border. One of the things I love to mention about that is I was on the east west German border the night the wall came down.

00:05:02:14 - 00:05:27:15
Ronnie Harris
Wow. Oh, my gosh. And what a memory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that memory and you characterize it that way because that memory is really etched in my mind to cement what it means to be free, folk that that know me love Ronnie. They know that Ronnie loves to talk about freedom and what it means to live a free and virtuous life.

00:05:27:18 - 00:05:37:13
Ronnie Harris
And I think it was those formative years in the military in Germany that against cemented in me what it means to be to be free.

00:05:37:15 - 00:06:11:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you and I have had this conversation. I don't on a bike ride that we're going to focus on a little bit later. But, you know, freedom of movement and freedom of mobility is such an important thing. And just last year, I had the opportunity to attend the Velo city conference in Leipzig, Germany, and, flew in and out of Berlin for actually, I didn't yeah, I did fly into Berlin and I had the opportunity to ride my bike from the Berlin airport into downtown Berlin and be able to ride on a really nice, protected and separated bike path right along the Berlin Wall.

00:06:11:20 - 00:06:25:11
John Simmerman
And so, boom, there you go. You've got that connection of freedom of mobility and freedom as you're just, mentioning, you know, that, you know, that memory experience, you know, really, you know, resonates for you.

00:06:25:14 - 00:06:27:28
Ronnie Harris
That stuff does very good stuff, very deep.

00:06:27:29 - 00:06:30:25
John Simmerman
All right. And, and, a few years later.

00:06:30:27 - 00:07:08:11
Ronnie Harris
Yeah, few years later, I'm, receiving a certificate of appreciation for, I was a I was actually a, a junior delegate, for the state of Mississippi, to the national, Democratic National Convention. So, again, getting back to those more formative years as a child being raised in and around communities that were civically engaged and participated in the democratic process, I ultimately, I was fortunate to to be a, junior junior delegate and I guess I'm being recognized for that.

00:07:08:11 - 00:07:18:07
John Simmerman
So, yeah. So tell me about this, this photo, and we'll describe it for the listening only audience. It's a a photo of three very handsome gentlemen here.

00:07:18:09 - 00:07:50:15
Ronnie Harris
Oh, Ethiopia. That is, that is, that's 2004. I, went on so I graduated from college and had to do an internship, abroad. My undergraduate studies is in international development, and so I had to go and do some international development. And so I chose to work in Ethiopia among these two fine gentlemen, and, found it to be quite a joy.

00:07:50:18 - 00:08:21:09
Ronnie Harris
Again, you'll find this theme in my life has always been about what does it mean to walk with other people, to establish freedom and justice in one's lives and and duties and working with these guys? Did that? They ran a, youth center, and, if there was any, any level of expertise I brought to, this team, I think it was being a jokester, I think a jokester.

00:08:21:11 - 00:09:00:26
Ronnie Harris
That's great. But I learned I learned so much. I learned so much about. What does it mean to commit yourself to communities that have, for generations who's been marginalized? As you might know, the history of Ethiopia is that they they've had war and famine and things of that nature. And so, I learned a lot about what does it mean to thrive for, improved infrastructure and or access to the great outdoors and those things in the midst of turmoil, war, struggle, lack of funding, all of those things.

00:09:00:28 - 00:09:13:00
Ronnie Harris
Was, was was sort of what we wrestled with while I was in Ethiopia and I think has bled into what is my worldview, today about how to enter into communities.

00:09:13:02 - 00:09:40:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. Now, community engagement and being able to transform our communities into healthy, vibrant, active places is very much a part of the nexus of how our worlds came together. And that was through, of course, City Thread and, the The City Thread project and, and City thread, they've been focused and premiered and profiled here on the Active Towns channel.

00:09:40:03 - 00:10:12:12
John Simmerman
In the past. I've a long relationship with, Sarah and and, and Kyle and Zoe over the years and, and. Yeah, it's this is their website right here. And boom, there you go. There's a little like, peekaboo, a shot of you there. Talk about that journey of of how you came to meet up with and start partnering with City Thread, and what City Thread is, is helping you all out with there in Gulfport.

00:10:12:15 - 00:10:39:22
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. City thread and more importantly, beyond that, behind that brand is three amazing people, as you know. And, I met them years ago on a trip to the Netherlands to be exposed to, you know, the wonderful infrastructure that provides added measure, mobility for, for local folks. And they changed my life. Really? And do you know, when do you.

00:10:39:22 - 00:10:43:20
John Simmerman
Remember which year that was?

00:10:43:23 - 00:10:50:17
Ronnie Harris
I don't, but but I think by name, it might have been the, the big jump.

00:10:50:20 - 00:10:57:24
John Simmerman
Okay. So part of the big jump. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. So you might have been an add on to those ten cities. Yeah.

00:10:57:27 - 00:11:35:09
Ronnie Harris
That's right. And I went with Memphis, which was a city they had, you know, worked for years. And so, so we maintained a relationship in part because I just wouldn't let them go. They probably think, man, this guy, this guy just won't let us go because I was learning so much. And like you and your partners, I think being around like minded folk that have been exposed to the impact, mobility, justice and improved infrastructure, what it can do for communities, it's just contagious.

00:11:35:09 - 00:12:02:25
Ronnie Harris
And so I continue to I continue to, as the folk on the street might say, I continue to, you know, mess with those people, you know, city thread is good people. They have continue to encourage me and my worldview, shifts I needed to make to be a catalyst in my own community. For, for for safe and efficient and equitable, the necessary changes we need to do in, in Gulfport.

00:12:02:28 - 00:12:30:05
Ronnie Harris
So. So, when they started out, you know, this, this Brand City thread, I became aware of it and thought, this is something I want to be a part of. Got accepted, got the city of Gulfport accepted into their their program, and they came here and done a wonderful job to communicate, to my city and some stakeholders in a way that I couldn't, and, and I think that, we're better for it.

00:12:30:08 - 00:12:58:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. I mean, the the team over there at City Thread, you know, the the trio, as I like to call them, they are absolutely amazing folks. And, we'll pop on over and and give it give, give a shout out to Zoe, Sarah and Kyle there and, and. Yeah, back in the day, to the big jump project was launched in 20, announced in 2016.

00:12:58:18 - 00:13:38:07
John Simmerman
Really launched in 2017. And then they started the, study tours and bringing representatives from the ten different cities over to the Netherlands and a couple of other locations as well. I think that one delegation went down to a severe, civil to to see what was going on down there. But yeah, these are these are actually very, very critical and pivotal moments for so many people because it gave you that opportunity to see how mobility, active mobility can add to that theme that we were talking about, of freedom, freedom of of movement and freedom of mobility.

00:13:38:07 - 00:14:03:22
John Simmerman
And really a big part of that is mobility choice. You have sort of a, you know, you have an overlapping of mobility networks, whether it's driving a car, taking transit, walking or biking. The you know, those those networks are there. And it's very empowering for people, at all different socio economic levels to have that mobility option.

00:14:03:24 - 00:14:08:07
John Simmerman
So there's that mobility freedom, the choice.

00:14:08:10 - 00:14:10:02
Ronnie Harris
Absolutely I agree.

00:14:10:05 - 00:14:22:00
John Simmerman
And yeah. And and so that van brings us to you know the work that you're doing in and the relevance of that work through. It's what are you trying to do here.

00:14:22:02 - 00:14:47:10
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. I was fortunate I came to the bike advocacy work. In 2013 I was hired by active transportation Alliance. Sweet Melody, you might know Melody and Active Trans. I was hired by her and Alter Planning and Design, who was in collaboration. And the both of them, their organizations with the city of Chicago to establish.

00:14:47:10 - 00:15:14:16
Ronnie Harris
What are the goal campaigns. These campaigns were designed to, encourage folks in neighborhoods of Chicago to walk, bike, and use public transportation. And, I had, again, for most of my life been a part of community organizing, community building, community development as a community learning and development practitioner. Like it was what I was trained. It's what I have done.

00:15:14:19 - 00:15:51:03
Ronnie Harris
But to have it intersect with mobility. Justice, happened in 2000, 2013 when I was offered an opportunity to be a liaison to my neighborhood, Bronzeville. And so I became all the more enamored by the effectiveness. Mobility has improved. Mobility has to contribute to a flourishing life for folks. Some folks are called to and have a vocation to teach.

00:15:51:06 - 00:16:13:16
Ronnie Harris
Some folk have a vocation to, you know, feed the homeless. And, and those things are always understood as being part of what it's going to take to improve communities and things of that nature. But I had never given thought to, what affect mobility or the lack of mobility, safe, equitable mobility has on a life?

00:16:13:18 - 00:16:40:27
Ronnie Harris
But then to that, in 2013, I became enamored by that. But, funding ran out on that program. Shift in the mayor, happened, but I went to the city and asked the city of Chicago a give me, the wherewithal to continue this program behavior change, which was the goal of the go campaign. I argued to the city, you know, it doesn't happen overnight.

00:16:40:29 - 00:17:02:23
Ronnie Harris
And so they were like, oh, so we never anticipated that, you know, one of our community liaisons would ultimately want to take the program once it was over. Because most you know how it happens, a program starts, it gets funding, it meets its deliverables, and then it fades away with the funding, or the lack of funding. But I thought this was significant.

00:17:02:23 - 00:17:44:27
Ronnie Harris
This was important. And so what you have in Secret Routes is, a, a rebrand, and, more importantly, a fundamental worldview shift in me that, began to understand that if I wanted to enter into communities, wherever I would work moving forward from 2013, it would be in this area of, mobile City, and mobility justice, because I fundamentally believe that that is such a critical point, a critical part of what it means to help people live flourishing lives in community.

00:17:45:00 - 00:18:21:28
Ronnie Harris
A lot of times, you know, there's all kinds of conversation about housing and transportation costs and those questions. So so I've ever increasingly under the the brand's sacred roots in whatever city I have worked in. And I have worked in cities both here in the US and continue to have relationships abroad, and in communities where what I am seeking to do, what Sacred Roots is seeking to do is to help folk, be empowered, to move towards, human flourishing in their own, their own given context.

00:18:22:00 - 00:18:51:02
Ronnie Harris
And one of the things I always encourage them toward is to understand the power, that mobility has and, and establishing that in their lives so, so sacred roots is, my vehicle, to enter into the world and partner with people, to, to help them realize, their potential for human flourishing. Kind of like you and active towns.

00:18:51:02 - 00:18:59:09
Ronnie Harris
It's just it's my way of giving back to a world that, you know, continues to give to me.

00:18:59:12 - 00:19:26:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. A couple different themes, have emerged here. And one is that connection back and forth between Chicago and Gulfport, Mississippi. And, you know, so it's clear that you, you that's where the seed was planted there in 2013. And now you're, back in Gulfport, you know, doing work and growing this, another theme that that you mentioned, you mentioned that you were on this study tour along with the Memphis team in this.

00:19:26:04 - 00:19:46:17
John Simmerman
Your story sort of resonates with me, along with Roshan Austin, there in South Memphis and the work that Roshan has been doing. And, I had the privilege of having her, profiled here on the Active Towns, podcast. The audio only version. I think I need to bring her back on for the video version.

00:19:46:17 - 00:20:17:07
John Simmerman
Absolutely. Yeah. Up with her with the great things. But she she talks about the same thing is the importance of community in housing and the role the strategic role that active mobility and mobility, freedom and mobility choice can have. Because when we look at household affordability and the ability to flourish within one's life, being able to get around without having to support multiple cars within a household is a huge step up.

00:20:17:07 - 00:20:20:13
John Simmerman
From a financial perspective.

00:20:20:15 - 00:20:36:18
Ronnie Harris
Absolutely, absolutely. It's it's freedom on two wheels. It's freedom on feet. It's it's freedom on alternative modes of transportation. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's freedom. And Tim mentioned Rochelle is spot on. She was on that trip.

00:20:36:20 - 00:20:38:07
John Simmerman
And the reaction was there.

00:20:38:10 - 00:21:16:25
Ronnie Harris
Yeah, yeah. Had quite an impact on me. Because we were there, to look at, you know, the bike infrastructure and, and mobility. However, she, kept bringing it home as she does. She kept bringing it home. That what makes this matter is not that it provides folk with just a means by which to get around, but what makes this matter is what it does to afford people an opportunity to live a free and flourishing life.

00:21:16:25 - 00:21:50:12
Ronnie Harris
And she talked about the economics of Memphis and, and it just it was just, you know, it was it was the gospel I needed to hear on that trip. And all the more cemented in me that, hey, this mobility justice stuff is really cool. One of the illustrations of the point I often give is how powerful it is that mobility justice established in a community, doesn't only make a community safer, but it makes the community more healthy.

00:21:50:14 - 00:22:22:17
Ronnie Harris
And not just more safety. Not not just safe and healthier, but it also makes the community, far more economically viable, which is, again, at the very heart of what she's trying to do in Memphis is she's always trying to connect mobility justice to economic justice and freedom. And that, that that sort of brings me to to what I'm doing here in, in Gulfport, Mississippi these these days is, during Covid.

00:22:22:19 - 00:22:46:00
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. I moved back home, to work from home and, have never left, but I bought the corner store. I grew up going to, as a kid, acquired the building. It's a historic building. It is where even at the height of the Jim Crow here and south Mississippi, blacks and whites came to this store.

00:22:46:00 - 00:23:18:08
Ronnie Harris
And yet, since Hurricane Katrina, this building and this neighborhood, commercial corridor, has been defunct, you know, and so I've acquired the building and a couple of lots next to it, and we're looking to establish what we have dubbed the Gulfport Gaslight District, which sits anchored, between a historic white Broadmoor community and a historic black Syria city that I call, Gulf Ports.

00:23:18:09 - 00:23:53:20
Ronnie Harris
Harlem. So it's where I grew up. It's where, my elders, my family members, one of whom is 106, is the oldest, the oldest, citizen here in Gulfport, helped build this this community. But in times past, this community, it rock and roll, it had thriving, bars and thriving restaurants and thriving, you know, boutiques and barbershops and, you can go to markets.

00:23:53:22 - 00:24:25:07
Ronnie Harris
But today, it's a vision. We have for the future, and not our reality. So but again, this all was, is birthed out of what does it mean to establish mobility justice and be active in community. So one of the first things I did once I got here, apart from acquiring the property, is we started a quarterly bike ride where we just took people out on bike rides in and through a neighborhood they live in.

00:24:25:09 - 00:24:54:09
Ronnie Harris
But you know as well as anyone, so few people experience their neighborhood and or their city on two wheels or on feet. Right. And so our purpose was to slow things down for folks to give them an opportunity to really make some observations, into what what's going on in the neighborhood. So we just took kids and their parents, whoever would come out, out on these quarterly bike rides.

00:24:54:09 - 00:25:27:12
Ronnie Harris
And ultimately it it has become wear on any given bike ride. You might have even the mayor out on, on the ride with us. So we're into, active neighborhood corridors and neighborhood streets that have long been not only defunct, but been sort of, a place where, you know, riffraff can can dwell. But we're seeing that change when one corner, one block, one one corridor at a time.

00:25:27:14 - 00:25:55:17
John Simmerman
Yeah. I'm going to, pop in a photo here of Rochon, just to channel her a little bit and to, emphasize. Yeah, that was way back in season one, episode number 26. I'll be sure to, include the link to that conversation with Roshan. She was amazing. What's great about that example two of that study tour, and how impactful that was for her as well, was that she didn't even know how to ride a bike.

00:25:55:17 - 00:26:03:02
John Simmerman
She had to learn how to ride a bike or that that that you were it was pretty impressive.

00:26:03:04 - 00:26:20:09
Ronnie Harris
And and rode quite gingerly while we were on the trip. I remember we would put her in the middle. We would put her in the middle of the group. But she she made it. She that it a testament to her, you know, courage that she's just, she's a she's a go getter.

00:26:20:12 - 00:26:44:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, absolutely. I want to pull up you you had mentioned connections there within the community, and I want to pull up this particular photo. And you can describe it also for the listening audience to, and it doesn't have the advantage of the video or the visual here. What's the story behind this, this particular image? And is this what I'm assuming it is, is part of making some of those connections?

00:26:44:13 - 00:27:22:03
Ronnie Harris
That's right. Yeah. So I pride myself as a community organizer as being one that's, grass tops as well as grass, you know, grass roots and and this picture, it depicts the grass top. So, that's the city council, that's the mayor, that's, the, head of our transit, Coast Transit Authority there. There's the avid cyclists in the middle, that, lead so much of the effort to improve cycling infrastructure here in the coast.

00:27:22:06 - 00:27:51:19
Ronnie Harris
But then, where is he? Somewhere in the middle. Oh, right next to me is, Senator senior Senator Roger Wicker. Who is there? We're all there for a, ribbon cutting for what? Is a bike ped tram bridge over highway 90, which is a really, really significant, development here on the Gulf Coast. There's a beautiful coastline.

00:27:51:21 - 00:28:22:18
Ronnie Harris
I think it's still the largest manmade beach in the country, for sure, but I think it might be in the world. But it's got a bike trail running along it, and this bike ped tram bridge crosses over highway 90, sort of, contributing to this wonderful infrastructure along along this beach. And, and Roger Whitacre was very instrumental in bringing home the bacon to, to pay for it.

00:28:22:20 - 00:28:49:00
Ronnie Harris
But, yeah, it's all about making connections. What I need to say is what, you know, but for the listening audiences and or those that might not be familiar with how this stuff works, that infant structure for some folk and communities, particularly communities that are struggling black and brown communities, is seen as what, you know, some might call a boondoggle, a waste of money.

00:28:49:00 - 00:29:14:01
Ronnie Harris
Just money thrown on a project. That's just the mayor's pet project, when in fact, it is, I think, a mess when you do the traffic counts. When you do all of the research. It's it's a wonderful addition to, the landscape, the built environment on the Gulf Coast and the funding stream that came together to make it happen.

00:29:14:03 - 00:30:02:19
Ronnie Harris
Wasn't out of the local funding streams, but rather federal dollars and different other streams of funding that could make it happen. And so I am having to, as you could imagine, walk that fine line between supporting big infrastructure improvement like this that to many locals, look like something built just for tourists. For an example, what I or what I try to do, I continue to do at go Gulfport, is to try and make the case that yes, while that can be, understood from that perspective, a more broader perspective could be, not only is this for tourists, but this is for us.

00:30:02:21 - 00:30:32:08
Ronnie Harris
And when you think about the health mobilities, mobilities in black and brown communities, and the need to access the lakefront, the beachfront, we need to take advantage of it. So, so that's that fine line. And that's what that I think that picture depicts. Ronnie trying to be a bridge builder between my neighborhood that oftentimes feel shut out and those that are making the power decisions about what is or isn't going to happen in our city.

00:30:32:11 - 00:31:00:14
John Simmerman
Well, and going back to the connection to, with City Thread and one of the main things that, they do so well is helping shape the narratives and helping communities, have those conversations, getting the right people in the room. And so that these conversations can happen and there's a, there's a little bit of funding that's provided to help with technical development and in that education process and facilitating it.

00:31:00:17 - 00:31:19:09
John Simmerman
But you just mentioned it, you know, there in terms of the funding, you still have to go out and get other sources of funding. And so I want to pull up, the ETF here. And have you describe a little bit about this, because you were here in Austin not too terribly long ago. We went for a bike ride.

00:31:19:09 - 00:31:34:15
John Simmerman
We will highlight a little bit about that in a little bit, but talk a little bit about this particular, organization and how they are helping you in your effort to, you know, help your community flourish.

00:31:34:17 - 00:32:11:05
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. So, one of the, the strange things, but the powerful things about ideas, particularly, worldview changing ideas, transformative ideas is they have consequences. And for me, whether it was going on that trip abroad with, you know, cities, red folk, or being exposed to the work I was doing in cargo and other cities around the world, is I then have cultivated in me this aspiration to bring this stuff home.

00:32:11:05 - 00:32:42:22
Ronnie Harris
Like, what good is it if I can't apply it here at home? So ever increasingly, I have been fortunate to be a grantee, if you will, to various different grants and, and educational opportunities been exposed to world class learning trips and things of that nature. So I'm I'm smarter. I've got some, some thoughts about like, man, what other cities that are doing these amazing things are doing.

00:32:42:22 - 00:33:04:05
Ronnie Harris
So I'm exposed. But it always comes back to for a little black boy, that has grown up to be a community, advocate like myself is how do you send the effort, you know, so it comes back in our society and I think not just here in America, but around the world is. Yes. But how do you fund it?

00:33:04:07 - 00:33:24:13
Ronnie Harris
You know, the Netherlands have this amazing infrastructure. Yeah, but given our system, Ronnie, how is that going to work? How are we going to do that? How are you going to fund it? And so I left the city thread, opportunity, being one of their grantees. Again with a what they call a mobility mobility.

00:33:24:16 - 00:33:29:19
John Simmerman
Other mobility plan. Yeah. They're a, an accelerated mobility plan. Yeah.

00:33:29:21 - 00:34:01:24
Ronnie Harris
That's right. So working with, myself, and key stakeholders here in Gulfport, Mississippi, they provide it for us, our mobility, our app. Right. Accelerated mobility plan. But then again, I came back home with that plan. And now we have the question, how do you funded. And that's where Equitable Transportation Fund comes in. They just met us where we were and were willing to take the risk, funding what we're trying to do.

00:34:01:24 - 00:34:38:12
Ronnie Harris
And they have for the last year and, and we've seen some amazing headway that exceeded what I could have ever imagined. So it was really equitable transportation fund taking a risk in me, a lead organizer, here on the ground that brought about programing that have now built a case for Gulfport, Mississippi, but now others to include local folk are coming to the table with a willingness to to fund our projects.

00:34:38:12 - 00:35:10:24
Ronnie Harris
So one of the goals the Equitable Transportation Fund had, for for us was to, at the very end of the the the grant cycle to be prepared to in community with some of the stakeholder partners, to be prepared to apply for what might be federal grants out there to support, you know, transportation infrastructure improvement. Well, we're we're advance that, we are prepared to we've already apply.

00:35:10:26 - 00:35:31:15
Ronnie Harris
But it was them taking a risk on us. It was also to get local buy in at the end of the grant cycle, to have built local buy in. Not only have we built local buy in, but we we've gone right in to some, granting partnerships here at the very local level that is going to fund the work.

00:35:31:17 - 00:35:57:15
Ronnie Harris
Here into the near future. And so I will never, ever be able to communicate how wonderful it was to have a funding partner, an ETF, equitable transportation fund to support the work. Being mindful of that, I need to also go back and give a shout out to one of our very good friends, Randy Neuville.

00:35:57:18 - 00:35:59:16
John Simmerman
Oh, yeah. Yes.

00:35:59:19 - 00:36:34:17
Ronnie Harris
Who started who? Who really? To a great extent started all of this. And they also took our risk in 2013, in 1415 to, support so much of what Ronnie Harris was wanting to do in the neighborhoods he was working in. Randy is who made it possible, with his work at Sram. Who made it possible for the city of Gulfport for an example to even be in the city threads and program.

00:36:34:17 - 00:37:18:19
Ronnie Harris
And then from the AMP program, we were introduced again to the partners at Equitable Transportation Fund and have continued the work. But it's it's it's, as you know, so I'm preaching to the choir with you, but for folks that are listening and that we'll see or hear this later, it takes a village for real. For things like this to happen so often, it takes, meeting one person, building relationships, cultivating trust, that moves into, opportunities for our for, for folk that have the access and the ability to, to fund work to do so.

00:37:18:21 - 00:37:28:19
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. So partners like you, I mean, to come in hanging out with you and and Austin. Yeah. It's made that possible. That was great.

00:37:28:22 - 00:37:29:05
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:29:05 - 00:37:31:04
Ronnie Harris
So you guys, were you made clear?

00:37:31:06 - 00:37:50:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, I did, I made you cry. We'll we'll show that in just a moment. I've got some good video of you crying. No, no, I though, But. No. Yeah. You were here in town in Austin. You know, because of that, that ETF meeting and and we did we I teased it enough here. So you and I had an opportunity to go for a bike ride.

00:37:50:27 - 00:38:21:10
John Simmerman
We talked a lot about some of those challenges to do infrastructure within communities and everything. And you cannot ignore that. That old guy in the in the frame there. But back of me is this beautiful, beautiful field. And so I'm talking about how this particular high quality all ages and abilities pathway connects, you know from downtown. Basically, we rode all the way from downtown out to this location on the boggy Creek Trail.

00:38:21:12 - 00:38:49:20
John Simmerman
And it is, as you can see on screen here, this is a beautiful, beautiful, you know, a ball field. But more importantly, it's also a very historic ball field. We're talking about one of the original, ball fields that was, you know, critical in, in the early black Negro leagues of baseball. I mean, this is a very, very historic and famous place.

00:38:49:23 - 00:38:51:27
John Simmerman
This is when you cried.

00:38:51:29 - 00:39:17:05
Ronnie Harris
That's right. I, I told you that day, and even now, I, I share the same sentiments. I don't know what got me, but it was almost as if you can feel. You can feel it. You could just I remember I didn't know, like I hadn't seen the sign. I did not know. So. So if I knew the history, I could understand how I must have felt something.

00:39:17:12 - 00:39:29:16
Ronnie Harris
But you might remember we were passing it. You were describing it. But. But then I had to circle back and and and, And give room for for what I was feeling. And I appreciate.

00:39:29:16 - 00:39:37:00
John Simmerman
You. And we stopped and read the plaque. And I think that that's really strong can. And when you see comes to light. Yeah.

00:39:37:00 - 00:40:19:15
Ronnie Harris
It crystallized that personal light because what what what this is, is the intersection between in my mind, it was the intersection between his history, historic preservation, and mobility justice and or, you know, active transportation it you know, because we're on this trail, this trail is riding along this and there it is. And I you might remember me saying to you, I don't know what happened with regards to the conversations that went on to save and restore this field.

00:40:19:17 - 00:40:57:09
Ronnie Harris
I know they had to happen. But man, do I think it's cool that what the outcome was was that somebody decided improved cycling, walking, pedestrian infrastructure improvement did not have to come at the cost of getting rid of this historic, this historic feel. And I think why it touched me so deeply is because I think, this is a model, for neighborhoods and community cities here.

00:40:57:11 - 00:41:30:11
Ronnie Harris
We're we're trying to improve upon neighborhoods and communities that have been devastated by being marginalized. And left behind. But we don't have to do it in such a way to where we rid ourselves of these amazing historic, gems, which is what this community store is in Gulfport, Mississippi. For me, it's like at the height of Jim Crow, both blacks and whites came store.

00:41:30:13 - 00:42:06:10
Ronnie Harris
Here I am coming out with all these ideas about transit oriented development and equitable mobility and mobility justice. And let's improve upon bike ped infrastructure. It doesn't have to lead to some gentrification that has been, dishonoring, to local stories, local history, local people. It can happen in a way that understands the need to gingerly.

00:42:06:10 - 00:42:29:21
Ronnie Harris
And it takes time. It takes building relationships and trust and all that stuff. And and I think that's what folk don't want to really do, is to do the hard work. Cool picture here. I'm, I'm in my, one of my neighbor's homes and trying to cultivate relationship by establishing some safe spaces where we can have conversations about what do what do we want as a as a neighborhood.

00:42:29:29 - 00:43:08:04
Ronnie Harris
I call these gatherings after after the race. And again, I've laid out that where I'm seeking to establish development at the Gulfport Gaslight District is anchored between both the black community and white community. So we've done separate meetings. Community meetings. But what I'm articulating here, I think, is I'm showing them that there is very little difference between what the majority white folk in Broadmoor want and what the majority black folk in Souris City want.

00:43:08:06 - 00:43:29:23
Ronnie Harris
Having met with, both, they all want to know where are the coffers, the city's coffers, and what are the city managers, the city mayor? What are they spending it on? They all want to know. Why is it my road pave? They all want to know, how can we, establish more a more safe environment?

00:43:29:25 - 00:43:59:04
Ronnie Harris
And so we're going through, I have mapped out for them that there is very little difference between historic white Broadmoor and historic black city in terms of what they envision for themselves, into the future. But it it's going to take us being able to hold intention, the future we want, and the collective history we have together.

00:43:59:06 - 00:44:03:03
Ronnie Harris
And so that's one of the things that I'm seeking to do there.

00:44:03:06 - 00:44:25:11
John Simmerman
And what's interesting too. And you. Yeah. And you and I have had this conversation when we were sitting down, for a beverage and we were, we were talking a little bit about how sometimes you get resistance from the community and, you know, even peers within your community. And they're, they're they're like, what are you doing, Ronnie? Why are you talking about this stuff?

00:44:25:14 - 00:44:55:18
John Simmerman
Because you kind of mentioned it earlier. It's when you're when you're changing, like the status quo. You're like, because you're you're not just going in and saying, let's do community vital ization and let's resurrect some businesses. You're also taking that extra step because you saw the power of mobility, freedom. You're also blending in this concept of, hey, let's make it safer for people to be able to walk and bike to these meaningful destinations that we want to recreate.

00:44:55:20 - 00:45:23:04
John Simmerman
And so you add you're like almost unnecessarily adding more work for yourself because you're having to have those discussions as well. Which for me is just a great illustration of how pervasive the, the status quo of motor vehicle driving motor vehicles and car culture and, Ian Walker from from Wales, coined the term motor normativity or car brain.

00:45:23:06 - 00:45:25:09
John Simmerman
It's like everybody can relate to that.

00:45:25:13 - 00:45:26:01
Ronnie Harris
I like it.

00:45:26:08 - 00:45:50:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Everybody can relate to the fact that, oh well, how much parking is going to be there? And it's just like, you know, no, no, no, no, no, don't focus on parking. Let's focus on people being able to get to meaningful destinations, fully knowing that the statistics across North America and most of our communities, 30 to 40% of our population are non drivers, for whatever reason, they don't have the ability to drive.

00:45:50:25 - 00:45:56:06
John Simmerman
I would suspect in Gulfport, Mississippi, it's a similar percentage if not even higher. Yeah.

00:45:56:09 - 00:46:30:15
Ronnie Harris
Yeah, yeah, absolutely certainly is higher. And the the the nugget I would add to that is an a percentage of folks that shouldn't be driving. All right. I think that's the the injustice of a car centric culture is some folk can't afford it. Right. Some folk are other abled body folk that just can't. Yeah. And then there are some folk that just shouldn't.

00:46:30:18 - 00:46:54:00
Ronnie Harris
The people that come to mind is there's a number of folk that have had driving privileges, rightly so, in some cases taken from them. But but to take one's driving privilege doesn't stop so many folk from driving. So to your point, in a car centric culture, folk feel like I can't help but to drive. I have to drive, you know?

00:46:54:00 - 00:47:14:03
Ronnie Harris
So the example I give is, you know, a young fella that got himself in some trouble in the neighborhood and had his license revoked again in this scenario, rightly so. Let's let's suggest he still drives. You said to him, well, dude, what are you what are you doing? Driving. He was like, well, you want me to work, right?

00:47:14:05 - 00:47:53:06
Ronnie Harris
I was like, yeah, I want you to work. He's like, well, do you know where my job is? Like, I know where your job is. You know? It's like, so part of what I'm trying to do in a nutshell, by profession, even for me, is, is instigate community based learning is to really have folk reeducate both themselves and others to understand, the intersectionality between what does it mean to live a free life, live in a place where you can live, work and play and be, beholding to a car centered culture?

00:47:53:08 - 00:48:30:08
Ronnie Harris
It's just it's at odds with one another. I'm convinced. And so these convenings we do in community is designed to do that. And not just with regard to cars. Not bikes and and walking. But we are also having conversation that just in general about how free is our built environment, period. And so this this picture here you have is in partnership with, the extension, program at Mississippi State University.

00:48:30:08 - 00:49:01:24
Ronnie Harris
City and neighborhood folk, black and white, across the divide are coming together to discuss. Yeah. What would it look like for us to begin to think about our built environment, particularly being here on the Gulf Coast, which has, ever increasingly, I guess I can't say has unique challenges with regard to extreme weather. Because the world over is beginning to experience extreme weather and the effects of what that means.

00:49:02:01 - 00:49:28:15
Ronnie Harris
But here on the coast, you know, the rising sea levels and extreme weather and and erosion and all kinds of things are are things we really have to begin to think about. As, as, as members of our community, because, you know, if we don't, there won't there might not be a Gulfport, Mississippi in, in the years to come.

00:49:28:17 - 00:50:07:14
Ronnie Harris
And so, many of us are having these conversations about, like, what does it mean to, not just improve upon bike pit infrastructure for the sake of being able to walk somewhere or bike somewhere? But but what does that do to our efforts to improve upon our environment, period. Like, our commitment to, carbon, you know, like, affecting, you know, just our overall environmental responsibility to, to, to, to one another and to our society.

00:50:07:16 - 00:50:38:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. You know, now, one of the things that you mentioned there is you did talk a little bit about, the fear of gentrification and so one of the biggest challenges, I think that when we start to, you know, talk about this concept of, hey, we're going to do something radical, we're going to like, encourage people to be able to walk and bike places and do that safely, because people are walking and biking because they they have to, again, 30 to 40% of the population in general, are non drivers.

00:50:38:00 - 00:51:03:05
John Simmerman
And so they're, they're walking, they are oftentimes in in socio economically challenged neighborhoods, they're oftentimes walking on the sides of the road. They have a higher than normal, rate of, of fatalities due to motor vehicle violence. And, and so, you know, I want to go back to this, this image here of, that field that we that we went past.

00:51:03:09 - 00:51:28:26
John Simmerman
So this is a map of East Austin. And so again, the the I-35 that is kind of going, north south here. That was the dividing line. That was the racial dividing line, the segregation line of the city of Austin. And so anything, to the east of of that was, you know, where the colored folk were. You know, it was the that's where the Hispanics and Latinos were all, shoved over there.

00:51:28:26 - 00:52:03:28
John Simmerman
The black population was shoved over there. You and I also had the opportunity to visit one of the the Carver Museum, one of the other, wonderful museums not far from the, Martin Luther King, transit station. And so one of the things that I wanted to point out is just how wonderfully empowering that active mobility network was for us to be able to visit these meaningful destinations, but more importantly, for people living in those neighborhoods to be able to access meaningful destinations.

00:52:04:00 - 00:52:31:22
John Simmerman
And it's not just about accessing the parks. I mean, the park is wonderful. And to your point, that actually was a an this is an active ball field. So not only did they preserve that historic ball field, but now kids literally are playing it reactivated it. That's exactly. And so it's what I call an activity asset. My terminology from an active towns perspective is that's a viable activity asset on screen here.

00:52:31:22 - 00:52:55:00
John Simmerman
The video that we see to the left is a community garden. And as the video continues, it connects to the Martin Luther King transit station, which then gives another layer of what we were talking about earlier, the the redundancy of mobility networks, as well as the integration of mobility networks. And I think that that's one of the biggest challenges.

00:52:55:03 - 00:53:18:27
John Simmerman
Talk through what you're doing there in Gulfport to have these conversations and reassure folks that, hey, bike lanes are not white lanes. We're not talking about trying to, you know, shove you guys out because that's the fear that people have. Is that gentrification, equals displacement. And we hope that's not what we're trying to do here.

00:53:18:29 - 00:53:26:13
Ronnie Harris
Absolutely. And you've said nothing about the amazing housing like that's there that we're looking at in that picture.

00:53:26:18 - 00:53:37:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Because we're rolling up on the station, the transit station. And this is transit oriented development. So this will give you people the option of living a carefree lifestyle.

00:53:37:15 - 00:54:29:10
Ronnie Harris
That's right, that's right. Yeah. So you you're it's spot on. The Gulfport Gas Light District and and just in general, what I'm trying to do to influence a more flourishing community here in Gulfport is to observe, find, those intersections between, all of these critical components of our lives together, housing, transportation, infrastructure, economic safety, and provide for folks, a safe space, to have some really meaningful dialog and conversations about what might we be able to do together to change the status quo.

00:54:29:12 - 00:54:56:06
Ronnie Harris
And I think you've hit the nail on the head. One of the critical conversations that I continue to have with folk is this conversation around, development and the extent to which it is gentrification or not. I don't like the billionaire that's set up there. And so one of the things I generally say for folks is, I, I'm, I'm actually for gentrification.

00:54:56:08 - 00:55:26:27
Ronnie Harris
I just want responsible justification. I want more equitable gentrification because I do want gentry at the root of the word. I do want gentry. I am in part, gentry upward mobile, went off to college, served in the military abroad. And now I'm home. I'm gentry. I'm. I'm black gentry. But I or anyone moving in to these neighborhoods have to be responsible gentry.

00:55:26:27 - 00:55:49:21
Ronnie Harris
So you spoke about, like how as a developer. Yeah. It it is easy to go into it. Easy. It is common folk to go into a neighborhood and just put your plans together, put your financial package together and you just build some, you do some, just lay it on people. But I have went the extra mile and I continue to do.

00:55:49:21 - 00:56:19:05
Ronnie Harris
And I'm proud of the work that me and some of our stakeholder partners are doing to continue to do the hard work, to have the hard conversations so that we're not just improving, infrastructure here. But what we're doing is reframe the conversation that we are, transforming worldview perspectives. One friend of mine say you can't legislate morality.

00:56:19:10 - 00:56:48:26
Ronnie Harris
I think that's true. But just the same, you actually can't build by putting out infrastructure. Better lives, I think better lives and better living, better communities are really built out of doing the hard work to address some of the long standing gaps in our understanding of of one another and of understanding what what works best, what can we do?

00:56:48:28 - 00:56:54:26
Ronnie Harris
What should we do? What should we not do? And so that's what we're trying to do here.

00:56:54:28 - 00:57:07:28
John Simmerman
Yeah. And the, the alternative, of course, you know, is, you know, is and I'm glad that you, you said it and framed it the way that you did about gentrification is that the alternative is what we let things just continue to, to degrade.

00:57:07:28 - 00:57:12:13
Ronnie Harris
That's right. To decay. That's right, that's right. We don't want that.

00:57:12:17 - 00:57:38:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. So what we do want though is to is to invest in our communities, you know, equitably and also make sure that, you know, as they gentrify, as they they get renewed back to a viable, viable, a vital in, and, and, vital and viable place that people want to be and human flourishing can take place.

00:57:38:23 - 00:58:00:20
John Simmerman
We want to do what we can to ensure that that doesn't result in displacement of people that want to be there. And so that's a very, very important point. I have your donation page here for, sacred reads out, because you do have the ability to receive donations. And so folks can go to the website and, and click on there, they can do a one time donation.

00:58:00:20 - 00:58:12:29
John Simmerman
They can also do monthly, donations as well. Ronnie, as we bring this to a close, is there anything that we didn't already discuss that you want to make sure to leave the audience with?

00:58:13:01 - 00:58:46:06
Ronnie Harris
Yeah. I think it, it would behoove us to, make a note about where we are as an American society and justice society in general. On the heels of our recent elections. I was on the phone with some friends of mine from Romania, who also just had a recent election. And so that's why I can say it's the world over, right.

00:58:46:08 - 00:59:18:10
Ronnie Harris
That societies are being polarized in it, one against the other. And, and so in closing, one of the things that I might encourage us to together, you and I underscore, is just how powerful, how powerful coming together to a common table and not a Facebook profile, by the way, not an Instagram profile. Because that's just, you know, it's a soundbite.

00:59:18:10 - 01:00:04:10
Ronnie Harris
We don't get to read each other's nonverbals. We don't get to feel each other's energy. We don't get to really begin to understand one another's story. And so I think it's ever increasingly important that we, in our attempt to establish and empower folks to, live in flourishing communities. I think it's important for us to underscore how powerful it is, for folks to have what you and I have had when we were in Denver, what you and I have had when we were in Austin, what you and I are having right now, to have these opportunities where we sit at a common table and really have the wherewithal with mutuality, mutual respect for

01:00:04:10 - 01:00:27:26
Ronnie Harris
one another, have some very deep and profound conversations about how we could move forward into the future without undermining and or sacrificing the very essence of who we are. You know, you let me start here today by talking about, what's important to me, which is my family and my my history and my story, and, and I've heard yours.

01:00:27:26 - 01:00:57:19
Ronnie Harris
And so it's it's that kind of stuff that I hope your listeners will never lose sight of that no funding source. No, no big win ribbon cutting of some infrastructure or improvement. None of that can, can, can outdo, outweigh the what it means to have some authentic relationship and have, you know, a common table to come to and and communicate with one another.

01:00:57:25 - 01:00:59:29
Ronnie Harris
So thank you for having me.

01:01:00:01 - 01:01:34:05
John Simmerman
Yeah. No, you're quite welcome. It is such an honor to having you on the Active Towns podcast, and I hope for everybody tuning in, either watching this on YouTube or listening to this and, and also my Patreon supporters, I think you'll you'll recognize a common theme here. For those of you who do watch and listen frequently is I do talk about how important it is for us to engage with our neighbors to have these conversations, and it's so important to really dialog and get to know who you is in your community.

01:01:34:05 - 01:01:57:08
John Simmerman
And with that, you can grow a movement and you can dispel myths and disinformation that is out there. And I think that's incredibly important. And, and again, understanding people's backgrounds. And thank you so much, Ronnie, for sharing your story. And where have you have come from? And that's why I love this. This format. It's long form format.

01:01:57:08 - 01:02:17:22
John Simmerman
It's an hour long interview. And you can't do that if you know, you can't really share your story. If we're trying to shove this into 15 minutes. So, thank you to everybody who's tuning in and has done so, routinely over the years, to these long form interviews, it gives an opportunity to get to understand who Ronnie is.

01:02:17:24 - 01:02:23:09
John Simmerman
And I really do appreciate that. Ronnie Harris, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

01:02:23:15 - 01:02:26:09
Ronnie Harris
Thank you for having me. Looking forward to seeing you again.

01:02:26:12 - 01:02:42:03
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Ronnie Harris. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribed to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.

01:02:42:08 - 01:03:04:25
John Simmerman
And if you are enjoying this content here in the Acton Town Channel, please consider supporting my efforts by becoming an Active Towns Ambassador. Hey, it's easy to do. Just navigate over to Active Town Star Org and click on that support tab at the top of the page. And by the way, if you decide to become a Patreon supporter, you do have access to all this video content early and ad free.

01:03:04:27 - 01:03:22:22
John Simmerman
So there is that added benefit. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. It really does mean so much to me. And until next time, this is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again sending a huge thank you out to all my active towns ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube.

01:03:22:22 - 01:03:31:16
John Simmerman
Super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit. Every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.