Transcript exported from the video version of this episode - Note that it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:16:00
Jerry Kopack
I'm not anti car, I just am not even anti bike. I think anything that gets people out of their cars. Yes. Is is a good thing right. As I mentioned before I think that the world would be a much kinder and much friendlier, much happier place if more people rode bikes.

00:00:16:02 - 00:00:43:06
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the acting attorney general. I'm John Simmerman and that is Jerry Kopack from Breckenridge, Colorado. We're going to be talking about time, how our relationship with time is and getting out on the bike, exploring many different countries and even just getting around your town by bike. It's pretty cool stuff. I hope you enjoy it. Let's get right to it with Jerry.

00:00:43:08 - 00:00:47:02
John Simmerman
Jerry, thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:00:47:04 - 00:00:53:18
Jerry Kopack
John It's so great to be here. I've been following your show for a while and it is just it's an honor. You do some really quality work.

00:00:53:21 - 00:01:01:12
John Simmerman
But thank you so much, sir. I really appreciate that. Why don't you just take a moment to share a little bit about yourself with the audience?

00:01:01:15 - 00:01:29:09
Jerry Kopack
Yeah, I always I always hate this question. It's kind of like, where do you see yourself in five years? And I don't know. I think it's kind of kind of an evolving question. Basically. I think right now at least I'm a wanderer. I'm a question asker. Risley I'm an author and I'm a recovering cubicle dweller and basically just a guy who's trying to use my experiences to try to make the world a better place one person at a time.

00:01:29:12 - 00:01:50:23
Jerry Kopack
But now I think about it. There's I do live by a couple of mantras, and you can you can test me on this if you wants. First one is I'm relatively certain that the world would be a better, kinder, friendlier place if everyone rode a bike and stay with me. You don't have to be hungry, do you? French fries.

00:01:50:25 - 00:01:52:05
John Simmerman
I love it. I love it.

00:01:52:05 - 00:01:52:24
Jerry Kopack
Prove me wrong.

00:01:52:29 - 00:02:12:06
John Simmerman
That's. That's fantastic. And in fact, if I go to your website here, that's exactly what how you phrase yourself in four words. Here is author, speaker, recovering cubicle dweller. So yeah, five words. Boom. You're right on point. There. So where you grew up?

00:02:12:09 - 00:02:37:08
Jerry Kopack
I grew up in this little small town called Eaton Rapids, Michigan. And honestly, if you did a search on Google for Middle America, Eaton Rapids just might come up. It's probably 5000 people, I think, at 180, 175, my graduating class. And it's just this quintessential quaint little farm town just 30 miles south of Lansing. And there's a river that runs through.

00:02:37:08 - 00:02:47:27
Jerry Kopack
There is a little island on there. And after school and we were kids, we'd go and get some day old loaves of bread and feed the ducks. I mean, it was it was a really amazing place to grow up.

00:02:48:00 - 00:03:10:04
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Yeah, I just pulled up the Google maps here and yeah, you're right. It's just just south a little bit west of Lansing and not far from from Chelsea. I've got some friends in Chelsea and, and yeah, in Ann Arbor. That's where I did my graduate work. So I'm familiar with that area, actually. Beautiful country.

00:03:10:06 - 00:03:13:00
Jerry Kopack
Do you do you know Grand Rapids, though? Probably not.

00:03:13:00 - 00:03:15:10
John Simmerman
I have never been to Eaton Rapids. Yeah.

00:03:15:14 - 00:03:21:21
Jerry Kopack
I mean, there's there's a thousand little small towns just like it all over the place. So it's just the Midwest. It's a great place. Yeah.

00:03:21:21 - 00:03:30:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. So that's where you grew up and then you're you're, you're joining us from where? Where are you located right now?

00:03:30:13 - 00:03:46:15
Jerry Kopack
I am now in the mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. So I've been here for about five years. I moved to Boulder for college in 1994 and lived in Boulder until probably 2018 and then moved up here. And I've been here ever since.

00:03:46:17 - 00:04:00:21
John Simmerman
Wow. Okay, cool. And you and I were talking before we hit the record button. We were in Boulder pretty much the same time. We overlapped quite a bit there in that area. What did you study there at at the university?

00:04:00:24 - 00:04:25:15
Jerry Kopack
I was a business guy, so I was a finance major. Yeah. I don't know if you ever get grew up watching movies. So one of my movies that I always loved and it was it seemed like it was a stable through business school. This movie called Wall Street with Michael Douglas, Charlie Sheen. And it seemed like everyone in my class knew that movie, had it on repeat in their brain on a loop, and could quote every scene from it.

00:04:25:17 - 00:04:37:27
Jerry Kopack
And it had this mindset that I wanted to be a banker like that. And then, you know, things changed in your life and your perspective shifted and realized that really wasn't where I saw myself long term.

00:04:37:29 - 00:05:00:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And and really, I think I already predict that there's a through line going here because when we look at what your childhood was like in life back in in Michigan, this is the image that you share on your about page and you know that that kind of looks like my bike a little bit. I'm a little older there, right?

00:05:00:18 - 00:05:26:25
John Simmerman
Ah, but, you know, like, I can remember getting around town so so talk about that through line of what it was like growing up and being on a bike and then going to school in Boulder, which is a quintessential act of town. I mean, the reason I named this initiative, Active Towns, was after Boulder, and most of my board of directors for my nonprofit are in the Boulder area.

00:05:26:28 - 00:05:44:17
John Simmerman
So what's the through line of the bike, you know, growing up and then in Boulder and then you are this professional doing financial work and finance work and banking work. Where's the bike at in that and where's that throughline on the bike through your career?

00:05:44:20 - 00:06:05:02
Jerry Kopack
So first off, I love that you pulled up that page from my website and look at this. Look at the disproportional size of my head to my body. I like to believe that I my body has grown into that. Now again, you know, did you ever see the movie with Mike Myers? So I married an ax murderer.

00:06:05:04 - 00:06:05:28
John Simmerman
Huh? Yeah.

00:06:06:00 - 00:06:27:28
Jerry Kopack
And he talks about, like, hid it looks like an orange and a toothpick. That's kind of Sorry. I digress. How do I grow up with bikes? I think ever since I can remember, bikes were just this this source of freedom. Right? So I lived in this this small farm town and my friends all lived far the way they called it out in the country.

00:06:27:28 - 00:06:44:14
Jerry Kopack
That was kind of like a michigan term, I think. And I remember my first real bike was, no, not the ones you just display. But my first real bike was a was a Schwinn. I think it's a world sport. It was black and gold. It was a ten speed. We didn't call and rode bikes back then. We call them ten speeds because they had ten speeds.

00:06:44:16 - 00:07:02:12
Jerry Kopack
Right. But I remember like my first real bike ride, I was riding out to see my friend Bill because in the summertime he had a pool. And of course that you want to do because the summers in Michigan, they're just hot and they're muggy. So I got on my my bike. I was probably 11, 12 years old, had never ridden that far.

00:07:02:12 - 00:07:20:09
Jerry Kopack
I was five miles, may as well have been 500 at that point. So I got loaded up. I knew the drive because my dad drove me there many times over the years. So I knew the road but loaded up with a pocket full of snickers, a water bottle full of Mountain Dew because there was Michigan in the eighties.

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:51:23
Jerry Kopack
And that's just what you did. And I got on this bike and in this epic odyssey to my friend Bill's house, there was five miles and you know, your legs are burning and your lungs are like, I'm not ready for this. So then, you know, you flash forward and bikes are still this part of my life. And I have this opportunity to move to Boulder, Colorado, which you and I know is like this bicycle commuting, cycling mecca of super athletes and just outdoor everything and going to school in Boulder at the University of Colorado in Boulder.

00:07:51:26 - 00:08:11:17
Jerry Kopack
It didn't make sense to drive a car because there's bike paths everywhere. And actually it's it's just easier to get around town on a bike. I would I would continually race my friends who would be driving to to the gym or to to campus, and they would be driving. I'd be on my bike and I would routinely beat them by four or five or 6 minutes.

00:08:11:20 - 00:08:23:22
Jerry Kopack
And, you know, long story short, is that bikes have just always been this part of my life. And to the point where I just started saying that bikes always win because they just do. Yeah.

00:08:23:24 - 00:08:48:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. Okay, so back to work. So you're in this career, you're back in this cubicle dwelling existence and and life happens, Things change. What happens? What? What, what caused you to change the that cubicle dwelling aspect of, of what your existence was at that point in time?

00:08:48:23 - 00:09:12:11
Jerry Kopack
Yeah. So I think like so many people in, in Western culture, specifically America, you know, we're following this this sort of laminated road map, this playbook to happiness and success. So you you go to college, you get a good job, you buy a house, you meet your your life partner, you have kids. And then all this happiness and success is then bestowed upon you.

00:09:12:11 - 00:09:37:21
Jerry Kopack
And maybe you notice as well. But life doesn't always play out that way. And sometimes things happen. And it really wasn't until I had the opportunity to found and run a hospice with my mom at the ripe old age of 31, which, you know, What did you know about death and dying? 31 Me I didn't know anything. And so that's when sort of this light switch flipped on that.

00:09:37:24 - 00:09:55:18
Jerry Kopack
There's something else out there, right? So as I mentioned, I used to watch the movie Wall Street a lot. And so I wanted to be a banker. So I thought, wow, the highest bank in the land is the Federal Reserve. And so I got a job there out of college. And I realized very quickly that this just wasn't the place for me.

00:09:55:18 - 00:10:27:21
Jerry Kopack
And so I fumbled my way through a few other corporate cubicle style career jobs, and it just didn't feel like what I was doing mattered. Right. So I think it's I think it's human nature to want to believe that what you're doing has a purpose. It matters, it impacts people's lives. And it wasn't until I had the opportunity to again found a this hospice with my mom that I felt like what I'm doing, going to work every day, It's important, its impact on people's lives and you know, how that happened was just lucky.

00:10:27:23 - 00:10:48:03
Jerry Kopack
My mom, remember she had called me, she on holiday with her husband down to Mexico. And I won't try to recreate the the enthusiasm in her voice because she's just a really passionate person. But quite simply, she said, calls me up and says, Jerry, I know what I want to do, because at the time she knew that I was rather unhappy with my current career path.

00:10:48:03 - 00:11:12:10
Jerry Kopack
But, you know, it was a standard career path that many people follow, and she wasn't happy with hers either. And she's like, I want to start a hospice in Boulder because that's where she lives as well. And you know, I'm kind of snarky, a little sarcastic. And I'm 31, right? I'm following this playbook to success, and I'm sort of making little incremental gains, claw my way up the corporate ladder and thinking to myself like a hospice or a hospice home.

00:11:12:17 - 00:11:27:24
Jerry Kopack
I don't really want to start this makeshift hotel where people come in, transients, trash the rooms, etc. If $10 a night, whatever, she says, No, no, no, no. That's that's a hostel. I'm talking about a hospice.

00:11:27:27 - 00:11:28:19
John Simmerman
And like.

00:11:28:19 - 00:11:32:10
Jerry Kopack
Wait, what? What's a hospice? Because again, I'm 31, right?

00:11:32:10 - 00:11:48:29
John Simmerman
So which by the way, the visual on our on our screen here, folks, as he's filling in the gap between 24 and 36. You know and and that was a pretty that was a pretty important moment there at 36, you won your first and only mountain bike race.

00:11:49:01 - 00:11:52:26
Jerry Kopack
But let's not gloss over that like yeah.

00:11:52:28 - 00:12:06:11
John Simmerman
Okay. Well, you're still you're 31 and you're going into this hospice. You're learning about near-death care and being able to help support people and their families through very, very difficult period of time.

00:12:06:13 - 00:12:31:20
Jerry Kopack
Yeah, Yeah. And we had this this, this mentality, this mantra throughout our organization that simply read every day is an opportunity to improve someone's life. Yeah. And I don't know about you and your background, many people, but working in banking or in telecom like you may really love your job, but how many times you get to actually say that and have it be true?

00:12:31:21 - 00:12:55:02
Jerry Kopack
Like this was the first time in my career and again, my career is only ten years old, so I was doing what I thought I was supposed to do. But this opportunity to improve someone's life, it's it's a powerful driver. And so I was I was hooked within the first couple of months once we started the organization. And then the added benefit of getting to work every day with your mom is is an amazing experience too.

00:12:55:03 - 00:13:04:13
Jerry Kopack
So I never thought that would ever those around my periphery graduated from business school. Right? So working with your mom and working people at end of Life, it's it's way out there.

00:13:04:15 - 00:13:34:06
John Simmerman
So when you work with older people and when you work with people who are nearing the end of their life, it changes your perspective on life. It changes your perspective on time. And one thing you know would lead to another and that particular her business came to a close, but it changed you profoundly. It changed how you viewed time.

00:13:34:08 - 00:13:40:25
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit more about this, because this is really the path that you've been on and the journey you've been on since that time.

00:13:40:27 - 00:14:02:12
Jerry Kopack
You're so right, and I'm glad you brought this up. This this is exactly, exactly where I've been for the last ten or 15 years of my life. And so think about people you've lost in your life. If they were older or they're 1995, worked with people End of Life in our hospice facility, a lot of the people were of a certain age.

00:14:02:14 - 00:14:43:15
Jerry Kopack
And while that's inherently tragic and it's sad and it's difficult, I can sort of make the I can sort of make it a little bit more palatable inside my brain, set my heart to say that this person was 90, they were 95. They had a long life, and I'd like to believe they had a really good life. But it wasn't until I lost a close friend at 45 to breast cancer and another friend at 42 to pancreatic cancer, and both of them were otherwise young, healthy, didn't smoke, didn't drink, vegetarian, etc. did all the things that you're supposed to do and none of the things you're not supposed to do.

00:14:43:22 - 00:15:10:09
Jerry Kopack
And it wasn't until those two separate instances that I thought to myself, like, Wow, don't mess around. Because again and in this Western mindset, we're taught to work our butts off until we're 60, 65 years old, and then you can retire and start living your best life. Well, what I experience in a very personal and profound way is that you may not get that chance because tomorrow's not promised.

00:15:10:11 - 00:15:14:03
Jerry Kopack
And that's kind of how I've evolved. It's where I am with right now.

00:15:14:05 - 00:15:42:01
John Simmerman
And a big part of that is is redefining what time means. Yeah, yeah. And specific, you know, how much time you have left and, and whether you do, you just don't know like you found out from your friends. I mean it could be the end, could be very near. You just don't know. And so that was a big part I think of of that that shift for you, right.

00:15:42:03 - 00:15:42:12
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:15:42:12 - 00:16:06:12
Jerry Kopack
And I'm not saying that we should all look at today as our last, because I think that's maybe a little bit too granular, too shortsighted. But at the same time, I think that if if we're doing something that inherently makes us miserable or makes us unhappy or just doesn't make us feel fulfilled in life, then try to make changes, small steps, whatever that needs to be.

00:16:06:12 - 00:16:46:09
Jerry Kopack
And I came across this quote years ago when I was running a hospice and I who said it, but it's stuck with me for a while since those times. So a decade, maybe longer. And it's because simply to this point, every person has a time bank and every morning, 86400 seconds are deposited into that time bank. Now, people won't there's no one's going to tell you how to spend your time and time misspent won't be refunded, but it's some day in the future, whether it's five years or 50 years, you're going to go to your time bank and find that it's empty.

00:16:46:12 - 00:17:04:06
Jerry Kopack
And it's at that moment you'll know the answer to this question Did I use my time well and so that's again, by sticking with me for a long time, ever since the loss of two close friends. And it just makes me think I am grateful for today and how am I going to spend tomorrow?

00:17:04:09 - 00:17:32:29
John Simmerman
You know, and we're looking at the landing page for the product of work that you have put together. This is your book and this is I believe I haven't read the book yet. I need to get it and read it. And everybody else does, too, because I'm sure it's going to be amazing. But this is the product of this journey you've been on since that time, since those revelations about time.

00:17:33:01 - 00:17:48:21
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about doing this. You and I have a mutual friend and Ryan Van Duzer. He's yeah, he's the guy who, you know, got us connected. He just finished writing his book. And so his first book is out. Is this your first book as well?

00:17:48:23 - 00:17:49:22
Jerry Kopack
It is.

00:17:49:22 - 00:17:51:19
John Simmerman
And I don't.

00:17:51:19 - 00:18:06:27
Jerry Kopack
Know. Some people, they they they wake up when they're a kid or some point in life and they think I'm going to write a book. And John, I'm here to tell you that never crossed my mind. Okay? I was never one of those kids who thought, I'm going to write a book and I'm going to be an author.

00:18:06:29 - 00:18:32:09
Jerry Kopack
And to say it now, it still seems a little I'm getting used to it. Let's just say that it's not what I go into business school, but it is the product of that. And I had the opportunity to to travel. So I had some some very some things, very profound things happen in my life. And the book essentially is about the gift of time and how we choose to spend it.

00:18:32:12 - 00:18:57:16
Jerry Kopack
And what that simply means is I was a corporate guy, as I mentioned, for a number of years, and I had the opportunity to run a hospice. And then these lessons learned from running in a hospice became lessons, lived on a bike. And again, as I mentioned, I had this opportunity to to travel a little bit in what was supposed to be a two or three week trip, turned into nearly two years on a bike as I found my way.

00:18:57:20 - 00:19:09:08
John Simmerman
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just can't gloss over that. How does that happen? How do you go off for 2 to 3 weeks, then? Yeah. Hi, Mom. Yeah, Two years later.

00:19:09:10 - 00:19:31:27
Jerry Kopack
Thanks for catching me. So you know that old adage where people say, What would you try if you knew you could not fail? Like, I don't know. That's. That's never really resonated to me because it's it's so not grounded in reality. And also, I think that fear of failure is really what drives and inspires people. I think that fear, when harnessed, can be a really powerful engine.

00:19:32:00 - 00:19:56:05
Jerry Kopack
I mean, how many people started Fortune 500 companies or or split the atom or did amazing things that they knew they wouldn't fail like. So instead I looked at this as, What would you do? Or what would you try if time was not a factor? And think about all the things in our lives. I mean, whether it's the day to day stuff, whether it's sports is athletics, everything is controlled by time.

00:19:56:07 - 00:20:19:23
Jerry Kopack
And I learned from the loss of too close friends from running a hospice. That time is not it's not granted, it's not forever. It's not a given. And so I found myself after the breakup of the person I thought I was going to grow old with, with the loss of my organization and my hospice and also the death of two really close friends.

00:20:19:25 - 00:20:39:04
Jerry Kopack
And so I got on a bike and was going to go visit a close friend from high school who was living down in Zambia with his family. And I thought this would be just a nice little Segway to take a couple of weeks off and then plug back in and start back up again. And the more I traveled, I started meeting people from Zambia.

00:20:39:04 - 00:21:08:14
Jerry Kopack
I met someone who said he should go to Zimbabwe. And then from Zimbabwe I went to Madagascar. And then as I'm coming back after I think maybe six weeks being in Africa, I met this woman who is a professor and she is from India. And I'm telling you my story. And she says, There it is. And she says, you know, kind of with this, this are if you enjoy adventure and if you are not afraid of traveling by yourself, then you should absolutely go to India.

00:21:08:21 - 00:21:32:13
Jerry Kopack
And I'm not sure why. She asked me if I was afraid, but know, maybe people traveling around the world by their bike, maybe it's a daunting it's a daunting task. But anyways, so I found myself into India, and then from India, I found myself into Nepal. And then from there I had been gone probably three months, which by by Western standards and specifically by American standards, it's unheard of, right?

00:21:32:13 - 00:21:55:01
Jerry Kopack
So people get 2 to 3 weeks of vacation per year. And here I am realizing that I have this gift of time. And I've been living with this mentality to always say yes, because you think about it, it's really easy to say no, say no gives you this power to control or this this feeling of control, because I don't really have control over outcomes.

00:21:55:04 - 00:22:20:14
Jerry Kopack
But then when you say yes, it exposes you, it opens you up to this vulnerability. And so I remember I was coming back from northern India and then from a way into Nepal, and I was in Katmandu and I met this the Swiss couple. And I remember this is one of the things that just changed your life. Like we all have a certain number of moments in our life that you can just earmark.

00:22:20:14 - 00:22:39:08
Jerry Kopack
It's like, wow, this was a life changing moment. You know, I've been gone maybe two or three months and met this couple. They were also bike trains. So we quickly hit it off over dinner one night. They're talking about their stories, where they've been, my stories where I love them and they said, Hey, so where are you? What are you doing next week?

00:22:39:10 - 00:22:50:24
Jerry Kopack
I said, I don't know. I'm probably heading back to Boulder. They said, Why? Well, I've I've been gone for almost three months. They said, We've been gone for over two years. Like what? How is that?

00:22:50:27 - 00:22:52:16
John Simmerman
What were they?

00:22:52:18 - 00:23:13:29
Jerry Kopack
I can't even to this day I still stumble upon the words to figure out how that's even possible. And and so they ask me and I said, Besides that, you've been gone for almost three months. Why are you going home? What do you mean? I don't understand. Are you married? Actually, no. Do you have kids? No. Do you have a job?

00:23:14:01 - 00:23:36:13
Jerry Kopack
No. Do you have a dog? I know. Well, why are you going home? Oh, I don't know. What did you have in mind? Well, we're going to keep cycling through eastern Nepal into northeast India, into Thailand, eastern Tibet, China. Do you want to come with us? And I thought, well, I've known you guys for an hour and a half.

00:23:36:14 - 00:23:55:22
Jerry Kopack
Right. Like, what's the worst that could happen if if we don't get along, if we ride different speeds, if you don't laugh at my jokes, like, you know, we just we peel off and we go different ways. But I'm thinking to myself, I'm living by this mindset to always say yes. Then the only answer is to say yes and to continue on with these guys.

00:23:55:24 - 00:24:11:27
Jerry Kopack
And we've been the closest of friends. They became like my brother and sister, and we were together 24 seven for like the next seven or eight months and just had some of the most amazing life changing and profound experiences.

00:24:12:00 - 00:24:51:03
John Simmerman
Yeah, And we were kind of going through some of your photos from Nepal and this is some of your photo album out on your website, folks. So what we're seeing here from the images and for those listening in to the to this on audio only, be sure to go to the show notes for this episode and you can click on through and take a look at some of these beautiful images that Jerry has out on his website and just really the richness of the images and the smiles on the faces and the beauty of the landscape.

00:24:51:05 - 00:25:33:10
John Simmerman
I mean, the thing that comes to my mind when I look at images of folks who are doing what you're doing, adventuring and getting out there and being one with nature. And Ryan does a great job with this, especially with his content creation on his channel, is the beauty of it and how important it is for us humans to like, slow down, take a breath and and take a deep breath in and out and really appreciate that which is around you, because so often and this goes back to time in the way that our relationship with time, especially in the corporate world, is we're like on the clock.

00:25:33:10 - 00:25:55:08
John Simmerman
We're doing this, we're doing that, we've got goals, we have to do this. And you can do that too. With even your adventuring, it could be all about, Oh, I need to get to this spot in the pressure of it. But if you reframe what time means and you just take it as it comes, I mean, that to me seems much more healthy than the way the rat race that we're sort of in in our society.

00:25:55:15 - 00:26:00:17
John Simmerman
I mean, that's my impression from the outside looking in is that is that kind of what happens?

00:26:00:19 - 00:26:36:18
Jerry Kopack
Yeah, I mean, a couple of things come to mind in and I know that I was incredibly fortunate, incredibly privileged to be able to take that time away. Like I'm part of the 1/10 of 1/10 of 1% of the people who can do that in the United States or even in the world. And so I understand that. And while I'm not advocating that everyone quit their job or have something happen and just take off, because I know that's not realistic, I think it's important that people find whatever fills their cup, whatever, or find whatever brings them joy, you know, whether it's going for a walk in the woods, whether it's going on your favorite trail

00:26:36:18 - 00:26:57:21
Jerry Kopack
by just getting on your bike and riding on the bike path. I mean, whatever sort of brings you stillness and whatever brings you calm and peace. I think that's what's what's important. But back to your to your points about slowing down. Sure you can you can hop on a bus and you can find yourself at the Taj Mahal from in New Delhi, going from Mumbai in India.

00:26:57:23 - 00:27:21:00
Jerry Kopack
And it's going to be amazing, right? The Taj Mahal is probably an incredible place. I personally never been there, even though I've been to India a couple of times. But the takeaway from that is traveling by bike allows you to slow down and you're traveling through these these rural, small villages where people had probably never seen anyone who looks like me and for sure never see anybody like me on a bike.

00:27:21:00 - 00:27:44:03
Jerry Kopack
So when people people ask, what was your favorite part? Was it crossing this mountain range in India or was it riding through the Negev desert in Israel? Like, honestly, those were amazing, but it's the people that you meet along the way. It's those connections, it's the people that you have, have a cup of tea with you, invite you into their house and have dinner with are people who allow you to sleep on their floor.

00:27:44:03 - 00:28:02:23
Jerry Kopack
Like that's the real magic of traveling. And that's the reason why I travel by bike as opposed to by a bus or anything else. Am I saying that those things are are worse or different or bad? I'm just saying that for me, the true magic happens when I'm on a bike. Those are the connections are made.

00:28:02:25 - 00:28:09:04
John Simmerman
We're we're cycling through a few video clips that you shared here. Where are these from?

00:28:09:07 - 00:28:32:28
Jerry Kopack
This is from Northern India up in the Kashmir region. And these last couple were from a trip that I just got back from in October of 2022. So about, you know, several months ago. And I had been there in a similar region probably six years ago when I was traveling by myself. But this was the first time that I've really traveled with a romantic partner.

00:28:33:00 - 00:28:48:18
Jerry Kopack
And so this was this was different, right? So when you when you're traveling by yourself, you know, this is this this video here is actually from from Breckenridge. We were putting bikes on our skis on our bike and then gone little skiing.

00:28:48:20 - 00:29:11:11
John Simmerman
So we'll put a pin in this video and we'll come back to that. So talk a little bit about that. So so you've been adventuring you've been doing this for how many years? And then you met somebody special and this person joined you on this adventure. Was this something that was out of the norm for her to be able to join you on this?

00:29:11:11 - 00:29:15:17
John Simmerman
Or was she, you know, somebody who you met while adventuring?

00:29:15:19 - 00:29:44:12
Jerry Kopack
Oh, that's a great question. So my first bike tour was in 2005 in the Pyrenees, in Spain. It was it was a one way trip. I was just kind of getting my toes wet and getting a taste for bike traveling. And then from there I progressed into two week trips and it wasn't until I had this opportunity to travel to Africa that we discussed already, they had a longer trip, and so I did that for a off and on for the better part of two years and came back, sort of plugged back into life.

00:29:44:12 - 00:30:15:03
Jerry Kopack
And then flash forward to 2022. That's at the top of the Annapurna circuit in Nepal, which is incredible. So there's opportunity to travel. So this person who I been with, her name is Christy. We had planned to do a two way trip to see some friends in Spain, and then she came to me and said, You know what, I really am not happy with my job and I think I'm going to quit.

00:30:15:03 - 00:30:33:13
Jerry Kopack
And I thought to myself, okay, if you're going to quit, then if we're going to have more than two weeks, then I have an idea. And so I said, Well, how about northern India? So I know the region well. I know the terrain, the routes, and so it'll require minimal planning, but I require more time. Are you okay with that?

00:30:33:19 - 00:30:57:26
Jerry Kopack
And of course she's she's competitive. She has she had a D1 hockey scholarship in college to play in North Dakota. So she's gritty. But it was interesting because traveling with a partner is a whole different mindset, right? So you're you're a triathlete, Ironman triathlete. So, you know, when you're out training what your body's capable of, you you know that when you're hungry, when you're tired, when you're hitting that wall.

00:30:58:01 - 00:31:25:00
Jerry Kopack
I know all those things too. But now I have to think about someone else. And when is she hungry? When is she tired? And it's a whole different experience that we definitely work through. It's funny because the first couple of weeks we were there and we were there, I think four weeks in the first two weeks, she kept saying to me, I don't think I should be here because India is intense where it gets it's anywhere from organized chaos to just straight chaos, which is personally why I love it.

00:31:25:02 - 00:31:52:01
Jerry Kopack
But after two weeks she told me, I don't want to go home. This is what I want to do. And so that made me completely happy because again, for me, spending two years on the road, I love this life. Yeah. And so like you mentioned, Ryan Van Duzer does these trips like we both been fortunate to be able to build our career later in our in our and our lives a little bit to be able to accommodate trips like there's three, four weeks, five weeks at a time.

00:31:52:04 - 00:31:58:00
Jerry Kopack
And I feel very fortunate with that that that Christie could join me for such a crazy epic adventure.

00:31:58:02 - 00:32:05:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Now talk a little bit about this photo and then we'll go back to the skis on on the bike.

00:32:05:25 - 00:32:30:15
Jerry Kopack
Services card in LA. It's at the it's up in northern India, in the Kashmir region. At the time it was the highest motorable road in the world. I think it has since been replaced by a couple hundred feet. Also, another mountain pass in India, but 18,000 feet to ride a bicycle up there. It's pretty it's pretty memorable, which is why they have the sign there to commemorate.

00:32:30:15 - 00:32:50:29
Jerry Kopack
It's I was the only person up there on a bike. This would have been in 2016. And yeah, it's I started in this in the city called Lei and Lei sits at about I think 10,000 feet. So I had about an 8000 foot bike ride throughout the day and the road starts off.

00:32:51:04 - 00:32:51:22
John Simmerman
Oh pretty.

00:32:51:22 - 00:33:19:02
Jerry Kopack
Decent. Yeah. The road starts off pretty decent. And then it becomes just an absolute battle war zone because at that altitude, freeze, thaw, rain, sleet, snow, ice, sun, rain, all those things just absolutely erode away a road and it's impossible to keep it nice. So it becomes essentially mountain biking on a road with just big Volkswagen sized potholes in the road and landslides, rockslides, avalanches.

00:33:19:02 - 00:33:27:04
Jerry Kopack
But it was it was a really great a memory experience. I actually have that same picture framed on my wall in my living room because I loved it so much.

00:33:27:09 - 00:33:28:15
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:28:18 - 00:33:29:04
Jerry Kopack
Love it. And.

00:33:29:09 - 00:33:57:12
John Simmerman
Okay, that's So you mentioned you slipped in careers and being able to do that. So obviously when you were on the road continuously for, you know, over a year, you know, I'm assuming you weren't working remotely from your bike. Bikepacking Correct. What are you what are you doing these days there in Breckenridge for quote unquote work?

00:33:57:15 - 00:34:19:13
Jerry Kopack
So I no longer as I mentioned, I'm a recovering cubicle dweller. What that means, as I'm sure is pretty obvious. I used to work in a cubicle and realize that just it didn't make my brain or my heart happy. And so I've been fortunate enough to piece together several things. So in the winter, for the last five years, I coach and teach Nordic skiing, so cross-country skiing.

00:34:19:15 - 00:34:36:19
Jerry Kopack
And I also do some work for a international nonprofit. I do some finance work which kind of keeps my brain sharp. In the summertime, I guide and lead bike tours around Breckenridge, and now in the past couple of months, I've been trying to sell some books, so I'm just kind of peace and things together.

00:34:36:19 - 00:34:37:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it.

00:34:37:17 - 00:35:02:12
Jerry Kopack
And I've been I've been fortunate, right as I was raised with really good values that I'm not. I'm not a great consumer. What that means is I just don't buy a lot of stuff. And so I'll buy stuff and I'll have it for five or ten years. I don't really have a spending problem, so I can afford to sort of get by on a more of a of a dirt bag lifestyle, because I did that for two years on a bike and I realized that, you know, how many pair of socks or any how many pair of underwear do you need?

00:35:02:12 - 00:35:06:06
Jerry Kopack
Like it's it's a lot less than what you would think on a day to day basis.

00:35:06:09 - 00:35:17:23
John Simmerman
But but, Jerry, I mean, seriously, if you're going to be a skier and you're going to do that sort of stuff, you have to have you have to use a car to be able to get to where? Oh, oh, maybe not.

00:35:17:25 - 00:35:38:19
Jerry Kopack
Yeah. Good. Paul Yeah. So what we like to do in the mornings before before work is we put skins on the bottom of our skis For people who don't know what that means, it's this long strip of what looks like animal fur inside him. Animal for synthetic, but attaches to the tip of your ski and the tail of your ski and allows you to walk up a ski resort.

00:35:38:19 - 00:35:55:13
Jerry Kopack
Other people are taking a chairlift up and people would say like, why in the world would you walk up a mountain when you can take a chair? I don't know. Why would you ride your bike over an 18,000 foot mountain pass? Because it's there. And so we were we'll do that in the morning at about 630 or seven.

00:35:55:13 - 00:36:02:15
Jerry Kopack
We'll skin up the resorts and then we'll take the skins off and we'll ski down and we'll go to work by 830. And I figure you're.

00:36:02:17 - 00:36:05:09
John Simmerman
You're earning your turns. I mean, come on. Yeah, right.

00:36:05:15 - 00:36:06:10
Jerry Kopack
You know this.

00:36:06:18 - 00:36:07:10
John Simmerman
Yes.

00:36:07:13 - 00:36:30:01
Jerry Kopack
Yeah. So it's just it's it's a really cool experience to be able to ride your bike and to do that again right there. And people ask like, do you have a car? Like, unlike Ryan Van Duzer, who doesn't have a car or has never owned a car, I actually do. I have a 2006 Subaru outback that I've had for probably 15 years, and I don't think I'll ever get rid of it because I don't need to.

00:36:30:03 - 00:36:49:28
John Simmerman
It works. Yeah. Yeah, It's in. I'm not anti car either. We do share one vehicle here in our household and it's a 2005 Honda element and it keeps going. In fact it's in the shop right now getting getting some repairs done so that I can do a road trip up to Colorado. So.

00:36:50:01 - 00:36:50:29
Jerry Kopack
Oh, I love that.

00:36:51:01 - 00:37:16:21
John Simmerman
Hopefully I'll be able to pop in and see you if you happen to be around in the June timeframe. And but yeah, I love this this I'm glad you had this photo in here because I mean, that's the other you know, kind of cool thing of for those short trips. Like I love having a car for my road trips I despise and never do use the car for short trips because I'd rather burn fat than oil.

00:37:16:24 - 00:37:41:03
Jerry Kopack
I love it. Yes. And it's interesting because the mayor in Breckenridge this year trying to get people out of their cars. He put out a alternate transportation challenge. So either take the bus day, a week, walk, carpool. I'm a biker, so I put studded tires on my on my commuter bike. Yep. And I bike to work every day at the dog center.

00:37:41:03 - 00:38:01:13
Jerry Kopack
I haven't driven to work in probably four years, and we've got panniers on the back of our bikes and we can bike the grocery store, bike to the gym, bike to skiing. Obviously. Right. And so I entered my name and actually my partner entered her name first and she won the first month. So that's great. Like you just want up to me.

00:38:01:13 - 00:38:18:05
Jerry Kopack
So of course I had to enter the following month and fortunately I won that month. So know, I think we won like a $50 certificate to some restaurant in Breckenridge. And so it's just it's a really nice thing that he's trying to empower people to get out of their cars. I think it's wonderful.

00:38:18:08 - 00:38:45:22
John Simmerman
And by the way, so, folks, if you're wondering what Breckenridge is like, here's just an image of Breckenridge. It's an absolutely beautiful, beautiful location there in the mountains in Summit County, up in the mountains of Colorado. I love it, too, because it has a deep history in supporting bikes. The U.S. pro race years ago was had a finish line right there in in the downtown area.

00:38:45:22 - 00:39:19:06
John Simmerman
And they really tried to embrace trying to encourage people to think about bikes for more than just sport and more than just recreation. Really trying to encourage people to imagine the fact that hey, 40 to 50% of all of our trips are within easy biking distance. And if we can make our environment safer for people to be able to, you know, accomplish those trips by bike and by walking and sometimes by cross-country skiing in the wintertime, I love it.

00:39:19:06 - 00:39:23:18
John Simmerman
You know, why not burn some fat instead of the oil?

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:44:19
Jerry Kopack
I love that. And actually, that sign was taken from India, which is kind of interesting because there's a lot of cars in India and a lot of people who drive them a little bit crazily. But I they definitely try to encourage people to ride and honestly like to your point too, like I'm not anti car, I just am not even anti bike.

00:39:44:19 - 00:39:59:29
Jerry Kopack
I think anything that gets people out of their cars. Yes is is a good thing right. As I mentioned before in my intro, I think that the world would be a much kinder, much friendlier, much happier place if more people rode bikes. Yeah, maybe that's simplistic, but.

00:40:00:01 - 00:40:26:28
John Simmerman
No, I think you're right. And this also is related to some of the work that you do for this particular nonprofit warm showers. And talk a little bit about this organization because it really helps to support people who have this dream of of reframing time and getting out and doing some exploration by bike. So talk about warm showers.

00:40:27:00 - 00:40:48:13
Jerry Kopack
I love this group, so I've been connected with them for probably about four years now. I sit on their board of directors. I'm also their finance guy. So what that means is, you know, I make some spreadsheets, do some financial analysis, and just basically look at our numbers and help keep us, keep us going forward. And what this organization does.

00:40:48:17 - 00:41:10:01
Jerry Kopack
You think of it kind of like like almost like an Airbnb model, except you're not renting someone's house, right? It's it's all it's all free, It's all gratuitous. So what people do is they'll look on a map if they're they're riding their bike through Breckenridge or through Madrid, Spain, or through Austin, Texas. And maybe they don't want to stay in a hotel and maybe they're tired of camping.

00:41:10:07 - 00:41:36:04
Jerry Kopack
They can reach out to one of our hosts on our network and say, Hey, Jerry or Hey, John, do you have availability on Tuesday of the eighth? Because I'm going to be rolling through town, I'm sure, And there's no real standard of what the offering is. But when people roll through Breckenridge, whether they're on the Great Divide route, which goes from Canada to Mexico or the Colorado Trail or the Transamerica, all those things come through Breckenridge.

00:41:36:07 - 00:41:51:23
Jerry Kopack
They may say like, Hey, I'm going to be coming through. Can I stay at your house? And for me, I like to offer people again, a warm shower so they can clean up because they probably haven't showered a while. They can do some laundry, they can sleep in a bed. And I like to make them breakfast and dinner depending on what time they roll through.

00:41:51:26 - 00:42:17:28
Jerry Kopack
And as I mentioned earlier, through all of my travels through India, through Nepal, through Kyrgyzstan, Israel, Vietnam, all these places, the most impactful thing about those experiences were the people that I met along the way. And so now I get to be on the other side of that. I get to be on the giving side and see people roll through town and get to hear their stories of adventure.

00:42:18:00 - 00:42:37:22
Jerry Kopack
And with warm showers. What it does is it creates this safe platform and encourages people to travel to get on their bike. And this organization is only for people on bicycles. So it's not for people who are hiking and other people who are driving across the country. You don't want to pay for a hotel. It's for bike travelers, which is what makes it so amazing.

00:42:37:24 - 00:43:12:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you sort of rattled off some numbers from your adventures and yeah, so 26 countries, five different continents, 99 blog posts that folks again, you can you can access all of that out here on Jerry's website and again that's Jerry capac dot com. What's not represented on here though is what you just mentioned the number of relationship apps and the number of people on those social connections that you do and that's that's hard to put into a numeric calculations right.

00:43:12:11 - 00:43:32:20
Jerry Kopack
Yeah yeah I mean how do you quantify that is so it's it's interesting because one of the the the first questions I got and it's a question I get continuously out people here about my story. First question is how many miles did you ride? Honestly, man, I have no idea. I don't have a Strava account. I'm not hating on people.

00:43:32:20 - 00:43:51:03
Jerry Kopack
Five Strava accounts. But that's not why I took these trips and asked me how many smiles I inspired or how many times I was inspired and smile by the people that I met along the way. I mean, that's something that I would love to quantify much more than the number of miles I rode, because honestly, I have no idea.

00:43:51:05 - 00:43:53:12
Jerry Kopack
Yeah, but the smiles are what really drove me.

00:43:53:14 - 00:44:26:15
John Simmerman
Now, we've mentioned Ryan a couple of times, and one of the things that he does is he does follow we using a bike computer. He now calculates that he uses commute and and some other software packages for his bikepacking trips and there's some rhyme or reason to that because you know, when like when he's doing his and I'm sure when you're doing yours sometimes you can be out in the middle of nowhere and it's kind of crucial to be able to get to the next place where you can get water.

00:44:26:18 - 00:44:52:08
John Simmerman
And so he does have a computer for for that purpose of being able to do some routing. But You have some information here. We're looking at again on your website here, and it says curious about Bikepacking. Talk a little bit about Bikepacking. Ryan and I did an entire episode about it, but what from your perspective, why don't you go ahead and talk a little bit about bike packing, how that sort emerged?

00:44:52:08 - 00:45:09:14
John Simmerman
Because I think that you were actually doing it. You were actually bike touring and being part of this and and, you know, out in the gravel and on some singletrack and then all of a sudden this explodes as a thing Bikepacking.

00:45:09:17 - 00:45:41:07
Jerry Kopack
It's crazy because when I was doing my first earlier trips, as I mentioned, in Spain in 2005, 2007, I was in northern mountains of Vietnam near the China border. And there just there wasn't this sort of offline GPS software that you could easily route yourself. So everything was paper maps, which made a little more adventurous. But also you didn't you couldn't go, I think, as deep because you didn't know what the contour lines were of a mountain pass, Or did this road go through because maps only get updated?

00:45:41:12 - 00:46:06:09
Jerry Kopack
Well, not very often. And so in 2016, 17, 18, I was on this trip and you're right back Bikepacking started to really emerge. I mean, there are different websites that came out. People were posting routes and blogs with elevation gain and with mileages and dropping waypoints on maps. You can see where there is a hotel or where there is a water or food resupply points.

00:46:06:11 - 00:46:29:05
Jerry Kopack
And when I was in places like northern India and rural Nepal and eastern Tibet and then Kyrgyzstan in Morocco, there still wasn't this this network of information. So we're still kind of just fumbling my way and figuring this out. But it was, yeah, I definitely am not going to take credit for it because I'm not getting credit for it.

00:46:29:05 - 00:46:51:03
Jerry Kopack
But I definitely felt like I was at the early stages of what Bikepacking was and has become now. And for sure COVID has has really helped propel that ride. So the idea of people wanting to get out and ride their bikes, I think about when COVID was was really in full force. How hard was it to to buy a new bike or let alone just get new brake pads or a chain?

00:46:51:03 - 00:47:15:26
Jerry Kopack
Right. So everyone was was getting into it, which is amazing for the industry and amazing for the sport and mostly for the lifestyle. But it's just it's been really amazing to see so many people getting out and adventuring and being curious. When people talk like, you know, how do you get into Bikepacking? Just go ride your bike someplace, stay overnight for one night and then come home.

00:47:15:28 - 00:47:25:02
Jerry Kopack
And at that felt okay, try something else, try for a weekend and just it's really cool to see where this is going.

00:47:25:05 - 00:47:52:15
John Simmerman
I like that you use that word curious. Yeah, it's such a powerful word, right? Because yeah, it really open things up. If you become curious about exploring, if you become curious about wanting to meet people who don't look like you and sound like you and don't have the same background, that that level of openness and carelessness I think is so incredibly important.

00:47:52:17 - 00:48:02:15
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit more about that and and how that how do you keep that curiosity and that that still alive?

00:48:02:17 - 00:48:26:05
Jerry Kopack
You know, I think it's kind of been I don't know, drilled into me or just inborn in me since I was a little kid. Right. Getting that bike for the first time, wanting to ride out into the country. But most of the I think it directly or indirectly, my dad's got a lot of input into this. My son, my dad's is a great guy turning 90 and August 1st and he's a former Marine.

00:48:26:08 - 00:48:46:05
Jerry Kopack
He's a Korean War veteran. Right. So he's he's used to living his life by a certain military mindset. And I grew up that way. And so there wasn't it wasn't a democracy to it to ask questions. If it was below 40 degrees, you had to wear it under shirts and you eat what's on your plate because this isn't a restaurant.

00:48:46:07 - 00:49:02:14
Jerry Kopack
And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It made me who the person I am today. But at the same time, if you've ever seen the movie, like Cool Hand Luke with Paul Newman, Right, Right. And so that was one of our favorite movies growing up as a kid. And so we'd watch that. We had seen it five or six times together.

00:49:02:14 - 00:49:23:24
Jerry Kopack
And in the scene when he actually goes to prison, if those are, you haven't seen it. So Paul Newman is this rather charming, gregarious guy. He was always sort of pushing the limits and on rules and regulations and life. And he finally gets caught and he goes to jail. And the warden says to him is, what we have here is failure to communicate.

00:49:23:27 - 00:49:44:13
Jerry Kopack
My dad would say that to me a lot. And I guess the long of that story is that everything that my dad put into place as far as rules was just had to be taken at face value, which made me sort of want to be more rebellious and more curious. So when I got that first bike as I ride into the countryside, it made me more curious.

00:49:44:13 - 00:50:03:19
Jerry Kopack
Want to know what's over this? What's around this corner, What's over this hill? Later in life, I started thinking about, okay, what's in this country and what's over that mountain pass? Like, why is this the highest motorable road in the world at 18,000 feet? What's at the top? What's on the backside? And I just think that it's I don't know.

00:50:03:19 - 00:50:25:27
Jerry Kopack
I'm just I'm 40 right now, which I don't say that very often out loud, but it's some getting used to it. But I think I'm still just this big goofy kid at heart that I'm just curious about life. And I think the more people that I meet who meet my my energy, who match my curiosity, the more it kind feeds my own curiosity.

00:50:25:27 - 00:50:43:24
Jerry Kopack
So when I met that Swiss couple in Nepal who is doing this amazing stuff, they weren't talking about getting home to to buy that new car or do other things. They were talking about these new experiences. And that just further fueled my my interest and intrigue.

00:50:43:26 - 00:51:07:29
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah, I love it. So going back to the the Bikepacking movement and how it's really taken off and then the technology and sort of the that layer in your perspective, because you were out there doing it with paper maps and all of that, is it taking away some of the challenge and taking away some of the adventure?

00:51:08:02 - 00:51:28:15
John Simmerman
Is it eroding some of that necessity for for curiosity in shifting it with, you know, of necessity and knowing exactly where that water drop is or that caches of trail, you know, trail angel magic? I mean, what's your take on that? I mean, obviously there's pros and cons.

00:51:28:17 - 00:51:50:15
Jerry Kopack
I think it's actually doing good things forward, right? Because because reading a map and trying to figure out where you are on that map is sometimes challenging. Well, I have I read three miles. Am I to this junction? Yeah. Like it's hard to really to get a bearings sometimes. Whereas with offline GPS you can see exactly where you are on the routes.

00:51:50:17 - 00:52:07:16
Jerry Kopack
People have added waypoint. It's as I've mentioned, and I think if nothing else, it gets you to push yourself even further because if you look at a paper map and you see like this, a little squiggly spaghetti lines like, oh, this goes into this little ravine, I can see the contour lines. I don't really know what's in there.

00:52:07:16 - 00:52:26:26
Jerry Kopack
So I'm probably not going to go there because I just really don't know. But now you can see when you can zoom in on these offline GPS maps, you have all this different data and it makes you kind of go deeper into the exploration. And also to like my buddy Ryan, who you talk to, he's doing really, really good videos, trying to inspire people.

00:52:26:29 - 00:52:45:02
Jerry Kopack
And he's giving people Waypoint is telling them what the mileage is. And I think all those things further help this movement to get people out and to ride their bikes, to go adventuring on their bikes. Because, you know, when I grew up, people would they'd get in their cars, you know, and they'd go the lake for the weekend.

00:52:45:02 - 00:53:12:05
Jerry Kopack
And that was cool. And that was that was their adventure. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a different kind of adventure. And so now the more people get on bikes, the more people share their stories. The more people get inspired, the more people write about it online or stay with people. And no more showers. I think that probably the biggest thing that I learned through my travels, honestly, is that everyone who I met along the way, people are just people, right?

00:53:12:10 - 00:53:26:04
Jerry Kopack
So they they're curious, they're empathetic, they're kind, they're generous. And I think that's been the biggest takeaway with all of my travels is that the human connection and the power of that human connection. Yeah.

00:53:26:06 - 00:53:53:26
John Simmerman
And if we reframe our relationship with time and and, and hopefully be able to, you know, peak that curiosity and think about ways that we can add a little bit of adventure to our life. And I'm kind of with you. It sounded like I look at the the changes that have been taking place in really sort of democratizing not only content creation.

00:53:53:26 - 00:54:39:09
John Simmerman
I mean, I'm a public health guy, you know, producing content out on the on the interwebs here on the YouTube channel here. And but also in this realm in terms of democratizing and making it a little bit more accessible to try to embrace more people, to adventure a little bit and to live a healthier, more active lifestyle, maybe rethink how their addiction towards success and power and money and obsessiveness with time will hopefully reframe things and and give us an opportunity to get out there and explore a little bit and, you know, and I would say, guys, you know, go pick up this book.

00:54:39:11 - 00:54:55:29
John Simmerman
I mean, because the world is spinning by you know, it's it's like, come on. I mean, this is this is really been an absolute joy for me to be able to connect with you. Jerry, is there anything that we haven't discussed yet that you want to make sure that we leave the audience with?

00:54:56:01 - 00:55:03:00
Jerry Kopack
Great question. Yes, I don't think so. I get I'll probably come to me later, but just been able to.

00:55:03:00 - 00:55:06:17
John Simmerman
To keep that, you know. Yeah. You missed it.

00:55:06:19 - 00:55:27:04
Jerry Kopack
Oh, and by the way, right now we talked about boards talking about the importance of bikes. We talk about the value of French fries. And so I think those are probably two really good takeaways. Yeah, but I know it's just been it's been really fun talking to you. You, you produce a really great show. I love your visuals and you're doing good stuff, right?

00:55:27:05 - 00:55:36:10
Jerry Kopack
You're not just some clown out there talking about things that nobody cares about that don't matter. Like the stuff that you talk about and the stuff the moment you're promoting matter. And so I love this.

00:55:36:13 - 00:55:56:23
John Simmerman
Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I really appreciate Ryan Van Duzer getting us in touch. That's fantastic. How can folks best follow along with your work and your adventures other than the book? Obviously, get the book to folks, but I believe you're you're you're out on the interwebs as well.

00:55:56:25 - 00:56:06:28
Jerry Kopack
Hey, I'm out on the interwebs. So I think you've talked about the website where you can find out about my my blogs, the stories that I've written. You can also pick up a copy of the book. So it's looking at that.

00:56:07:01 - 00:56:08:20
John Simmerman
You got a YouTube channel.

00:56:08:22 - 00:56:20:23
Jerry Kopack
Which I've got a YouTube channel as well. It's not quite as prolific a lot of people's, but well, those videos out there from my travels, you can find that on my name imply in the show notes right there at the bottom of the screen.

00:56:20:25 - 00:56:24:14
John Simmerman
And I am stressing out, boom, You're on Instagram, too.

00:56:24:17 - 00:56:32:19
Jerry Kopack
There it is. Right? So it's just if you go find the ad, Jerry Kopech on Instagram, you'll you'll find some of my stories and some of my adventures this week.

00:56:32:23 - 00:56:42:18
John Simmerman
I love it. I love it. I look forward to meeting you in person. Jerry. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.

00:56:42:20 - 00:56:49:08
Jerry Kopack
And I expect that when you do come through town we have a guest and so it's got your name on it.

00:56:49:10 - 00:57:18:04
John Simmerman
Awesome. Love it. I love it. And again, another plug for warm showers. Thanks. If this is the first time that you're hearing about this organization, I cannot say enough. Wonderful things about warm showers. I have friends that have participated and use the facilities. A good friend, Jim Sayer, who travels around the country by bike, used to be the executive director of the Adventure Cycling Association.

00:57:18:11 - 00:57:38:24
John Simmerman
He uses warm showers. I believe he might be a host as well. And and thank you to all of those folks who are tuning in, listening to this or watching this. If you are a warm showers. Host thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. It really makes a world of difference for those people who are getting out, trying to explore.

00:57:39:01 - 00:57:43:09
John Simmerman
And again, this is not just in north america. This is worldwide.

00:57:43:11 - 00:57:45:24
Jerry Kopack
Both correct. We are all.

00:57:45:24 - 00:57:48:21
John Simmerman
161 different countries. Yeah.

00:57:48:23 - 00:57:51:06
Jerry Kopack
Yeah. It's it's phenomenal.

00:57:51:09 - 00:57:55:02
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Again, Jerry, thank you so very much. This is up. Been awesome.

00:57:55:05 - 00:57:56:20
Jerry Kopack
Thanks, John.

00:57:56:22 - 00:58:17:26
John Simmerman
He thank you all so much for tuning and I hope you've enjoyed this episode with Jerry. And if you have, please give it a thumbs up or leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so, I would be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and bring the notifications Bell And if you are enjoying this content, I'd be honored to have you be a part of my active towns.

00:58:17:26 - 00:58:38:19
John Simmerman
Ambassadors support me out on Patreon and or buy me a copy. And don't forget I've got some fun. Streets are for people swag out on the website. There's so many active towns store again Thank you so much for tuning in I really appreciate it. And until next time this is John signing off by wishing you much activity and happiness.

00:58:38:22 - 00:58:58:26
John Simmerman
Cheers And again sending a huge thank you to all my active towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron buy me a coffee YouTube super thanks as well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active towns store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.