Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:22
Tesho Akindele
It's almost our duty as urbanists to highlight good examples that are already happening in our cities and are and have been done. It is very easy to kind of complain about the cities not doing enough that Charlotte is too sprawled out, etc. etc., which is true. But there's also a ton of great examples in Charlotte right now of great walkability, great bike ability, the bike networks, there's a rail, there's a light rail going right through the city.

00:00:25:29 - 00:00:46:10
Tesho Akindele
There are great examples of all of these ideas in play, and I think we should maybe think about doing a little bit more to highlight the positive instead of constantly fighting against the negative. I think people like to support positive messaging. And so I think if you if you keep showing people, hey, you're in Charlotte, don't you like these two neighborhoods?

00:00:46:16 - 00:00:50:05
Tesho Akindele
Yes. Shouldn't we build some more neighborhoods like this?

00:00:50:07 - 00:01:15:10
John Simmerman
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. I'm John Simmerman. And that is Tesho Akindele from Charlotte, North Carolina. Former MLS soccer player, formerly of Dallas, as well as Orlando and now an urbanist. So we're going to be talking about some of the projects that he is involved with and how he got passionate about building more walkable, bikeable places.

00:01:15:13 - 00:01:23:08
John Simmerman
It is a good one, so let's get right to it. Leticia.

00:01:23:11 - 00:01:27:10
John Simmerman
Well, Tessa, thank you so much for joining me in the Active Towns podcast.

00:01:27:12 - 00:01:32:02
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here. I'm glad we could we can make this this come to life.

00:01:32:04 - 00:01:43:18
John Simmerman
Absolutely. I know we're both really busy. We're kind of frazzled at the moment, but we're going to have some fun here for sure. Go ahead and take a moment to introduce yourself. Who is Tasha?

00:01:43:21 - 00:02:07:02
Tesho Akindele
S.O. Tasha, I guess, you know, born in Canada, I grew up most of my life in Colorado where, you know, I was going to school. I thought I was going to be an electrical engineer for and changed. I became a professional soccer player for nine years. And now I describe myself as an urbanist and I'm a real estate developer and just a big fan of, you know, all that is urbanism, walkability.

00:02:07:02 - 00:02:18:12
Tesho Akindele
And my mission is really build better neighborhoods. So kind of went from engineering path soccer all the way to urbanism. And I think this is the foreseeable foreseeable future for me here.

00:02:18:15 - 00:02:22:04
John Simmerman
Fantastic. So where abouts in Colorado were you?

00:02:22:06 - 00:02:40:07
Tesho Akindele
Yes, I lived in Thorton, Colorado, which is the city just north of Denver. And then I went to school in Golden, Colorado, a school called School of Mines, which is a great engineering school. I was always, yeah, there I am as a the or diggers. You know we we were a great we had a great soccer team. We were division two, but we had a great team.

00:02:40:09 - 00:02:58:03
Tesho Akindele
I really enjoyed my experience there. School was challenging but made good friends, had a great time playing soccer, and I was able to get noticed by professional level scouts at that school and kind of launch myself into a career in soccer. So nothing but great things to say about the City of Golden and School of Mines, store diggers, all of it.

00:02:58:06 - 00:03:18:09
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. Mean, before we hit the record button, I was telling you that, you know, given my time that I spent in Boulder, I love and I just feel like it's one of those quintessential active towns they've got, It's a walkable, bikeable, you know, sort of environment. They're they've got the beautiful bike path and multi-use path along the river just really tremendous.

00:03:18:10 - 00:03:20:12
John Simmerman
Now, what years were you there?

00:03:20:14 - 00:03:39:24
Tesho Akindele
I was there from 2010 through 2013, so I would have left probably in January 2014. But yeah, you're right. And I you know, urbanism was not even on my mind at the time. I was in Golden, but I didn't have a car. I had my legs, as I call them, So all I could do was walk around. So I had to live close to the school.

00:03:39:24 - 00:03:58:22
Tesho Akindele
So I really did experience, like the walkability of the city, but I never thought about it too much. Now, looking back and visiting because my wife's family still lives in Golden, I see. Like, wow, they have actually done a pretty good job here, and they're actually doing better there. They're kind of upping the density around. There's a really nice historic Main Street in Golden.

00:03:58:24 - 00:04:12:09
Tesho Akindele
They're kind of upping the density around that. Like you said, there's like a bike and wolfpack walk path that goes along with the creek. So it's a great small town and I think just a great example of what a suburb could be really in the United States, I think.

00:04:12:11 - 00:04:31:22
John Simmerman
Yeah, and I'm glad you use that word suburb too, because, you know, for folks who may be driving through the golden area and they kind of, you know, make their way maybe from Denver or from Boulder and maybe even through Arvada or whatever, you'll see sort of, you know, your typical sort of single family homes and suburbs there.

00:04:31:22 - 00:04:51:26
John Simmerman
But as you mentioned, it's a very historic town. And the downtown main Street area. And of course, Cougars is one of the main employers of the area. And then, of course, there's the university, the Colorado School of Mines there. But, yeah, I mean, what a great opportunity because affordability is a challenge, too, in all of the Denver metro area.

00:04:51:28 - 00:05:06:14
John Simmerman
So building more denser homes in in housing within easy walking and biking distance to critical, you know, desirable destinations is really, really important.

00:05:06:17 - 00:05:25:03
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, 100%. And I think you always find, unfortunately, that the most walkable places in many cities are the most expensive. But I think that just speaks to the demand for walkability. So I think we should kind of provide more of that, whether it be right in the city centers or in suburbs like Golden, kind of provide provide more pockets of walkability for people.

00:05:25:03 - 00:05:31:27
Tesho Akindele
And hopefully that should, you know, diffuse the cost burden as placed on each individual, walkable place.

00:05:32:00 - 00:05:43:16
John Simmerman
And then as life would have it, the next sort of thing that happened was you went to one of the most walkable, bikeable cities. Oh, wait a minute. What happened here?

00:05:43:18 - 00:06:01:05
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, I got I got drafted to FC Dallas, which was, you know, an amazing experience. I, i it was a little bit out of nowhere. Like, I knew I was a good soccer player and I was I feel really lucky that I was able to get drafted. But yeah, Dallas and I kind of lived north of the city in kind of Frisco Plano area.

00:06:01:07 - 00:06:18:24
Tesho Akindele
Not walkable at all. I mean, it's 20 minutes drive to get pretty much anywhere in Dallas, and most of that is like on a highway. So it's the opposite of walkability. Again, though, it wasn't even really walkability. Urbanism was not something that was on my radar at this point at all. Like I had grown up in a pretty car dependent place.

00:06:18:27 - 00:06:42:27
Tesho Akindele
I went to Dallas, It was car dependent. I just I just didn't think much of it. I just accepted it as kind of like the reality of life. And I think, unfortunately, that's that's just like the case for most Americans especially, is it just seems so normal. It's like the fish being in water kind of thing. You know, like you don't you don't think about like what is like what is there a difference between being walkability and car centric?

00:06:42:27 - 00:07:02:20
Tesho Akindele
Because everything is so car centric and so kind of maybe I'm skipping forward, but one of my missions is just to kind of wake people up to the idea that, you know, this doesn't have to be this way. Not everything has to be so spread out and so car centric. So Dallas definitely in hindsight, you know, reinforced those beliefs in me for sure.

00:07:02:22 - 00:07:29:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And then along well, let's stick with Dallas for just a moment, because I do want to point out that because you mentioned Plano. You know, Plano is actually accessible via train from the downtown metro Dallas area. And fast forwarding to where you're at now, you're in Charlotte and you actually have train transit and in the light rail system is very much a prominent part about that and we'll get to that later.

00:07:29:27 - 00:08:08:06
John Simmerman
But one of the things that I always cracks me up about the the Dallas area transit is, yeah, you can get to Plano and you can get to some of these stops along the way. But I it it just absolutely blew me away how unfriendly some of those transit stops were. I actually shot some video one day I was on my Brompton bike and and I was like, you know, jump on the the train to go up to Plano and you couldn't actually get to the transit station unless you were in a car to get to the park and ride.

00:08:08:08 - 00:08:23:05
John Simmerman
I'm like, wait a minute. There's literally an apartment complex across the street from from that particular transit stop. But there was no way for people to to easily get from here to there. They had to walk way around to get to that spot. I just like.

00:08:23:05 - 00:08:40:12
Tesho Akindele
No, I think I think I literally went to that same one because at the time my wife used to work in downtown Dallas. So sometimes I would like hop on the train and meet her in downtown Dallas. But yeah, it's like a giant parking lot. Underneath the highway is where the transit thing is and there's nobody walking like to or from it.

00:08:40:12 - 00:08:49:08
Tesho Akindele
And so, you know, you could theoretically get from Dallas to Plano, but then what's, you know, there's not really anywhere to connect to or go to without a car. So I think.

00:08:49:11 - 00:09:09:12
John Simmerman
The thing about Plano, at least the Plano stop. The good thing about the Plano stop is there's actually a right at that transit stop. There's a there's an old historic depot there. And you can walk to the downtown area. That particular stop was pretty good. It was one of the other suburban stops that was just mind boggling. I'm like, What are you doing?

00:09:09:14 - 00:09:13:16
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see it a little bit too often, that's for sure. Yeah.

00:09:13:16 - 00:09:24:00
John Simmerman
Yeah. And then something else happened. So. So in professional athletics, sometimes you get traded and so you got traded to Orlando. Talk a little bit about that.

00:09:24:02 - 00:09:43:11
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. The trade was actually like a very good thing for me. I was in Orlando for five years, which is a long time in a professional athlete to be in one place. And we kind of amicably, amicably decided like, maybe it's better if I get traded. Both sides agreed, even before they traded me to Orlando, they called and said, Is Orlando a place that you'd be interested in going?

00:09:43:14 - 00:10:03:07
Tesho Akindele
I said, Yeah, it is. So ended up in Orlando. This picture that we're looking at here is actually my first game in Orlando. I scored a goal and I had just had a son, my first son, maybe two, maybe two a month before this. And so my son was at the game. And so it was just just a really actually amazing moment in my life that we're seeing pictured here.

00:10:03:14 - 00:10:16:16
Tesho Akindele
And then the point is, every every goal I scored as a professional, I would always like kiss my ring and point up at my wife. So I would point that my wife and my son up there scored my first goal and my first game in Orlando. Just a great experience for sure.

00:10:16:18 - 00:10:29:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, that's fantastic. And in in again or Orlando, a number, another one of those cities that depending on which neighborhood you're in, could be incredibly card dependent.

00:10:29:29 - 00:10:47:27
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, definitely. And so Orlando is kind of the genesis of when I started waking up to the ideas of walkability. I actually lived in a suburb called Winter Park, which is a suburb, but it was a nice neighborhood. And Winter Park actually had kind of one of those historic downtown streets with shops and it was walkable. There was a train stop there.

00:10:48:00 - 00:11:14:01
Tesho Akindele
So you can see me here, pictured with the Orlando Yimby co-founder, Awesome Valley, who he was really the person who started waking me up to these ideas. I started I kind of stumbled into an Orlando, Yimby meeting and having a conversation with him, and that was probably like the first domino to fall, I would say, in terms of like bringing me to to where I am now is like a full blown urbanist and real estate developer.

00:11:14:01 - 00:11:24:29
Tesho Akindele
So yeah, Austin is a great guy. He's still in Orlando, like really pushing for more walkability, bike mobility, transit access in the city. So a great person to know if anybody's in or around Orlando.

00:11:25:01 - 00:11:58:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. And, and so talk a little bit about that transition. I mean it's I'm always fascinated by this when people from that don't have formal training in this arena, you know, city planners and urbanists and and transportation officials and all that, when they sort of start drinking the Kool-Aid of of urbanism. And, you know, you start getting these these acronyms of NIMBY and YIMBY and all the talk a little bit about that sort of awakening of, Oh, wow, this is interesting.

00:11:58:15 - 00:12:20:21
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. So I guess something else that you mention in this picture, so that is like right there on that kind of historic area of Winter Park. So there's some there's some nice urbanism going on. You can see the big streets of nice like density, so it's great. So what happened was Austin introduced me to a developer in Orlando called Craig Ostler, who's he's known as Mr. Downtown, and he is also like self-proclaimed urbanist.

00:12:20:21 - 00:12:39:27
Tesho Akindele
He was actually a senior this year as well, like we were. And so I met with him and sort of talking about this stuff and he said, you should read the book Walkable City. And so I read that book and I was like, This is like, this is it. You know, for example, like years and years or a few years earlier, I had gone to Amsterdam, loved Amsterdam, but I didn't have the words for why.

00:12:40:01 - 00:12:58:04
Tesho Akindele
And I was like, Walkable City is giving me the words for why. So when you talk about like being an outsider, getting exposed, I think just those books like Walkable City is good information, but it's so easy to read. It's so easy to understand. You know, he's not like bogging you down in the details, which the details are very important.

00:12:58:04 - 00:13:14:27
Tesho Akindele
But I think in terms of like waking up the general population to these ideas, I think it's just about like the bullet points, like think about where's your favorite neighborhood in your city? Guaranteed. It's a walkable neighborhood, you know, Where's your place that you like to go? Vacation. I guarantee it's walkable. Why did you have such a good time in Europe?

00:13:14:27 - 00:13:35:22
Tesho Akindele
Because you could walk and bike and ride the train everywhere, you know, And I think, like, just. Just those triggering words which walkable city really was. That for me is so important. And taking someone like me who was a professional soccer player, had no training, never thought about walkability at all, taking me from there to becoming now, where this is pretty much all that I think about.

00:13:36:00 - 00:13:46:00
Tesho Akindele
And it's just those those little intros like Walkable City is a great first step, and I think a lot of people probably listening to this would, would agree and share that experience.

00:13:46:02 - 00:13:54:24
John Simmerman
Yeah. And I think Jeff knows this the story, right? Jeff Speck understands that you know his and when you say triggering, you mean triggering in a good way.

00:13:54:27 - 00:14:21:17
Tesho Akindele
Oh, yeah. But no, the best way. Yeah. Like trigger me to kind of wake up. He does know. And actually at this year, seeing you in Charlotte, I was able to grab lunch with him, which was amazing. And I even, like, I called my mom after because she knew how much this book meant to me and just the fact that it was a real full circle moment for me to be like having lunch with the guy who who again, it was one of those real people who triggered me in a good way, too, until I kind of wake up and think about the world in a little bit different way.

00:14:21:19 - 00:14:58:20
John Simmerman
And talk a little bit about that. You've mentioned your mom. You know, she and she understands your passion for this and how impactful that book was. And in your coming about, you're coming to this world from the outside. Talk a little bit about you know that from you know, for people who are listening to this, watching this get passionate about, yeah, I want my mom to kind of know and in others, in other words, how do we break outside of our echo chambers in our bubbles to be able to start to permeate in and be able to bring more tissues in?

00:14:58:23 - 00:15:18:27
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, I think the thing is just to basically start with your mom, like just start with the people, you know, talking about it. So in my personal example, like, my mom is just a very like, strong environmentalist person. She does everything possible to like composting and recycling all of this stuff. But the idea of urbanism and walkability was not even on her radar.

00:15:18:27 - 00:15:35:14
Tesho Akindele
So when I approached her with these ideas, I approached it in the sense of, look at how great this is for the environment, you know, And that's that's what I love about it, is you can come to somebody like my mom, who the environment is like her number one passion and kind of like interest in in life, basically.

00:15:35:19 - 00:15:51:21
Tesho Akindele
And so I can come to her with urbanism through an environmental lens, but I can come to somebody else who maybe is like, let's say, a fiscal conservative, and you can come like urbanism through a fiscal conservative lens and you can it's the same, it's the same thing, but you can give everybody what they want. That's what I love about it.

00:15:51:21 - 00:16:09:00
Tesho Akindele
So I would say, you know, just try to dial it down. You know, if you're trying to like spread the words to more Tescos, to more people who haven't thought about this, think about what's important to them and try to connect it back to urbanism because I've found it really does connect to so many different things. You said you come at it from kind of a health point of view.

00:16:09:00 - 00:16:26:12
Tesho Akindele
You know, a lot of people are, especially now there's the sign of the cold plunge. All the health influencers that are going on right now. What about walking for 15 minutes per day just to get around a little bit more like in the health benefits of that or seeing your neighbors more often and the mental health benefits of that mental health is another big thing.

00:16:26:12 - 00:16:46:11
Tesho Akindele
So I think just just start small and talk to the people by you. So I think of is and also like talk to them in language that is familiar to them. One thing I found in this is that, you know, the architects, the planners, the engineers are very deep in the details, which is important to push things forward.

00:16:46:16 - 00:17:06:25
Tesho Akindele
But sometimes that turns off the general public to to being open to these ideas because they're just getting bogged down with stats and whatever it is, graphics, all this stuff instead of just say, wouldn't it be nice if you could walk to the coffee shop this morning? You know, like, that would be nice, you know, And that's where you approach people or, Oh, you're really passionate about the environment.

00:17:06:25 - 00:17:26:21
Tesho Akindele
Like, did you know that being in a more walkable neighborhood lowers your carbon impact on the world by a lot? Boom, They're triggered in a good way to start thinking about these things. And then you had a remarkable city and then the dominoes started falling. So I think just use language that people can can understand that this I kind of can't overstate how important that is.

00:17:26:23 - 00:18:11:08
John Simmerman
Yeah. I really appreciate to your example of, you know, like if somebody is approaching things their worldviews like from a fiscal conservative perspective, even going back to my original career, as we mentioned before, I we hit the record button. You know, I was all about public health, but it was in the context of health care, cost containment. In other words, it really was about being fiscally conservative and preventing things from happening so that we we, you know, are not burning money, which a lot of people don't realize that large corporations are self-insured and so they have a fiscal responsibility and a an incentive to try to prevent every single heart attack that happens, every single

00:18:11:08 - 00:18:36:02
John Simmerman
high blood pressure, every single cancer. And so they they have a vested interest to try to create healthier environments for their employees. And and that's why I had a 15 year career doing that. And to your point is understanding your audience and understanding what is something that is, you know, relevant to their world. And I also appreciate the fact that you said tone it down a little bit.

00:18:36:04 - 00:18:41:29
John Simmerman
We can get we can get excited about stuff and people will be like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:18:42:01 - 00:18:58:09
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. I think like seeing you, for example, is the time to nerd out on the details and like, really pushing the envelope forward. But if you're talking to your neighbor to tone it down a little bit, like that's what I find, like a lot of people are deep into the details and kind of wondering why isn't this message landing?

00:18:58:12 - 00:19:18:13
Tesho Akindele
My my advice is toned down a little bit. And I think I'm actually in a great position because I have not spent as much time as, for example, you thinking about these issues and like really getting ingrained in it. You're you are a great communicator. But the so what I've had to do is take the the high end details, try to understand it for myself and pass it along.

00:19:18:20 - 00:19:40:18
Tesho Akindele
So I'm almost like dumbing it down for myself to understand. And then just like spitting out that plain English version to know whether it's my mom or people who follow me on social media. And that's really been my strategy for spreading. The message is just or even just showing pictures of like beautiful buildings or beautiful neighborhoods, stuff like that, that just kind of wakes people up to the idea of, Oh yeah, that is a cool neighborhood.

00:19:40:18 - 00:19:48:11
Tesho Akindele
Why is it why is that a cool neighborhood? You know, just, just waking people up to really simple, easy to understand ways.

00:19:48:18 - 00:19:55:13
John Simmerman
And and there's opportunities to come together. Like you mentioned, seeing you, that's a great opportunity. Was that your first Congress?

00:19:55:15 - 00:20:12:09
Tesho Akindele
It was. I felt so lucky because you know what? I was playing pro soccer. There's no way I could take a few days off to go to like an urbanism conference. But the fact that I retired, I've moved to Charlotte, and then the first thing you see and you was there that year, I think is the first I was in Charlotte, Strong Council was there the first time.

00:20:12:16 - 00:20:22:13
Tesho Akindele
So all of these conferences came to the city that I'm now are really passionate about, kind of pushing forward. I felt like it was it was almost destiny in some sense. It felt really great.

00:20:22:15 - 00:20:34:10
John Simmerman
Yeah. So that's an opportunity to to nerd out and other opportunities to nerd out or is, you know, kind of finding your tribe and coming together. Talk a little bit about these this series of photos here.

00:20:34:13 - 00:20:55:09
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. So that was my last Orlando Yimby meeting. Actually. Orlando Yimby played a really important part. And like I said, I met Austin there and kind of started pushing these ideas forward in my mind. But the it was a great group and it's just it's a group of people who are everyday people. I don't think maybe like one or two people in the in that photo might be like professionals in the industry.

00:20:55:09 - 00:21:15:09
Tesho Akindele
But Austin, for example, he works for Disney. You know, I think there's another girl there, Hannah, that works for Disney. It's just just everyday people who want to see their neighborhood be more affordable, more transit, bike walk connected. And we would just get together, you know, once a month or once every other month and just kind of talk about this, these things.

00:21:15:11 - 00:21:39:01
Tesho Akindele
The groups growing, they started a book club as I was leaving. And I think like these types of groups are actually extremely important as well. So Charlotte has a group called the Charlotte Urbanists, which is kind of the corollary to the Orlando Yimby group, and they meet every single Saturday at same time. And I think it's really important because Sam, somebody in Charlotte who gets interested in these ideas, it's like, I want to talk about this, who do I talk to?

00:21:39:05 - 00:22:13:08
Tesho Akindele
And if you find like, Oh, there's people meeting Saturday that I can talk to about this, I think that's really important. And so like, if you are, you know, wherever, let's say Atlanta or Nashville, which is a nearby city and you're really interested in this stuff, I would encourage you to join a group of people who are doing these types of meet in person meetings consistently or start one yourself, because I think that's really how movements grow and those in-person connections are are super valuable to push the movement for us, but also just valuable for just finding your tribe, you know, finding people who who are kind of thinking the same things as you and

00:22:13:10 - 00:22:24:03
Tesho Akindele
we had we had a great time. So that was a that was a send off meeting for me in a way, in this picture. And just kind of like the start of the next generation for Orlando, Yimby, which they're doing great stuff.

00:22:24:06 - 00:22:57:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And I love that, that storyline, you know, the origin story meeting Austin and then connecting with this group. And I think that is a lesson to in addition to, you know, toning it down a little bit and having these conversations with your family and friends, it's then it's also, you know, if it kind of like the light bulb and the curiosity sort of gets off as well, you know, come join me for the next, you know, Yimby meeting or the next see a new chapter meeting or something like that.

00:22:57:26 - 00:23:19:09
John Simmerman
Honestly, it's not a cult, You know, It's in other words, it's approachable and it's welcoming. And and hopefully, if we're doing our jobs well as advocates and activists, we're also welcoming a diverse, you know, suite of people and welcoming people into the fold.

00:23:19:12 - 00:23:40:27
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. And I think even kind of the message of Yimby is just more affordable housing. You know, there's like the legalized housing T-shirt, which is a very catchy thing, kind of gets people's attention. But everybody can connect to the message of, wouldn't you like it to be more affordable, to live in great neighborhoods? Everybody can connect to that, You know, so I think that's why it's such a powerful message.

00:23:40:27 - 00:23:58:16
Tesho Akindele
It's simple. It's easy to connect to. And I think it just kind of brings people into the door and that that's a wide umbrella, especially in times like right now in the world where things are very often like fragmented based on whatever it may be, politics or your social status or something like that. This is a wide umbrella that I think we're able to cast here.

00:23:58:16 - 00:24:17:18
Tesho Akindele
And just wouldn't it be better to be more affordable housing, better for the environment? All of these things, like most people can agree, is is a good thing. So I think we have a really huge potential to pull together. Like you said, a diverse group of people from all over the country, all over the city, etcetera, to kind of push these ideas forward.

00:24:17:21 - 00:24:46:07
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I'll zoom in on this here so we can, you know, kind of do a couple of different things. You mentioned the t shirt, legalized housing. We also mentioned a couple of different acronyms, one in YIMBY and also NIMBY. Why don't you, since we do have a rather global audience listening and tuning in and watching this episode, why don't you go ahead and define what yimby a NIMBY means?

00:24:46:09 - 00:25:09:13
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, so I think NIMBY came first, so I'll start there. So NIMBY stands for Not in My Backyard, and it's people who just generally oppose housing being built in their neighborhoods for for this or that reason. It's interesting because you know, the NIMBY movement comes from a also a very interesting groups of people. There's there's people who are coming at it from an affordability standpoint.

00:25:09:13 - 00:25:31:26
Tesho Akindele
And some people are coming out and saying no new housing will bring traffic or some people say new housing will bring crime. So there's there's lots of reasons people are opposed to housing that they claim to be. So NIMBY is people who are fighting new development, new progress in their neighborhoods for a variety of reasons. Then the Yimby movement came along, which stands for Yes, in My Backyard.

00:25:32:03 - 00:25:56:06
Tesho Akindele
And Yimby is kind of the counterbalance there, saying we do want more housing in this neighborhood. You know, like for me in in Charlotte, I live in a wonderful neighborhood called Noda, and they're building a ton of apartments. And I love that. Like, I love my neighborhood and I want a ton of people to be able to experience that neighborhood and I want those people to bring their kids and their families and their life to that neighborhood and be able to, like, interact with me and my kids and my family.

00:25:56:08 - 00:26:12:08
Tesho Akindele
I think it just kind of is amazing. So I'm a self-proclaimed NIMBY. Yes. In my backyard. I would love more density, more whether it's restaurants or whatever it may be, actually. But literally, you know, in my backyard, in my neighborhood, in my city, etc..

00:26:12:10 - 00:26:38:21
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned your neighborhood of Noda, which stands for the North Davidson area. It's a historic mill area there in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I do have a wonderful video, a bike ride video of many of the developments up in that area. And I think it was actually called the Reinventing the Front Porch Bike tour, which is part of seeing you.

00:26:38:21 - 00:27:12:20
John Simmerman
And so we were looking at some of the developments, mostly the commercial developments which were in some of the old mill houses that are right along Davidson there. And and how they're getting a new life, you know, a new lease on life in terms of restaurants and retail shops and in creating that that welcoming front porch environment, which is so historic to that area, you know, because you know, that's where people would come together, would be to catch the evening breeze, you know, on the front porch.

00:27:12:20 - 00:27:22:19
John Simmerman
And so it became a social gathering place. So very much a part of your neighborhood is that concept of coming together as a society, as a as a neighborhood.

00:27:22:22 - 00:27:46:09
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. The front porch is an extremely important part of North Davidson Street, the Noda neighborhood. If you go along North Davidson Street, like you said, you'll see a lot of these houses with front porches that have been turned into restaurants, tattoo parlors, etc.. But then even within the neighborhood, there's front porches. And, you know, I'll be watching my kids around in the stroller with their scooters and my neighbors are on their front porch, you know, saying hi to us.

00:27:46:11 - 00:28:09:28
John Simmerman
Yeah, it was super, super fun. Now, that was my first visit to Charlotte, so it was neat to be able to experience seeing you, which I guess I have to give a shout out to the organization, seeing, you know, the Congress for the New Urbanism. Oftentimes it's cities that I wouldn't have visited otherwise. Like last year it was Oklahoma City just up the road from me here.

00:28:10:00 - 00:28:36:09
John Simmerman
And it was wonderful to be able to to to jump in, jump in the car, do a road trip up to Oklahoma City and see Oklahoma City. And earlier we were mentioning just spec with walkable city. You know, that's one of his cities. You know, he did a lot to help redefine what Oklahoma City looked like. So it was wonderful to see that it was super, super cool to to check out, you know, Charlotte, North Carolina, and be able to see your neighborhood.

00:28:36:09 - 00:29:04:10
John Simmerman
So, yeah, good. Right, Right. Timing. Good timing there. You know, you just move there. You're you're getting all settled in and boom seeing you happens there earlier you had mentioned social media a little bit. And so talk about that transition and, you know, see, you've sort of gone down the rabbit hole. You you you drank the Kool-Aid and and then where does social media and where does Twitter come in in through all of this?

00:29:04:13 - 00:29:19:20
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. So kind of in the last year of my career, I decided, you know, I have a bunch of interesting thoughts. I thought, you know, I'm thinking a lot of stuff and I'm doing a lot of stuff off the field, but many people don't know about it. So I started to decide, you know, I'm going to put myself out there a little bit.

00:29:19:20 - 00:29:27:12
Tesho Akindele
And initially that was talking about personal finance, education, affordable housing, real estate investing, etc.. And oh.

00:29:27:12 - 00:29:31:03
John Simmerman
Wait a minute, Is that where we have your head exploding?

00:29:31:06 - 00:29:35:15
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, yeah, that's of the exploding head. That's a good picture to come from.

00:29:35:21 - 00:29:38:26
John Simmerman
There we go. It's all Yes, it's got to get out.

00:29:38:29 - 00:29:58:26
Tesho Akindele
Yes. The genesis, actually, this this graphic here was created by an Orlando City fan, Marina. She's you can see her name kind of beside my neck there. But yeah, so this is kind of the genesis. I was talking about all this stuff on Twitter, posting it, then I started doing Twitter spaces every week. I would just I would just hop on and say, whoever wants to talk.

00:29:58:26 - 00:30:26:26
Tesho Akindele
And sometimes it would be open conversations. I might have a guest. Am I just you could call it people from the crowd, which is really cool. So I got to actually interact with the Orlando City fans a little bit more one on one through that experience, which was great. You know, those conversations and just me posting on social media pushed me in the direction of urbanism, walkability, and then then my Twitter just kind of completely changed to like, all right, now all I want to talk about is like cool neighborhoods, urbanism, walkability.

00:30:26:29 - 00:30:45:24
Tesho Akindele
And so, you know, what you're seeing here, This Society Hill is at the time I was still playing for Orlando City, so we would go play Philadelphia Union, for example. And it's cool because we get we get to travel to all these great American cities and stay in some of the best neighborhoods. So we stayed downtown Philadelphia, and I would go for a long walk that night.

00:30:45:24 - 00:31:04:06
Tesho Akindele
We would get in and just find a cool neighborhood and, you know, take pictures and post it. That was actually a tip I got from Craig Eisler, who is the developer in Orlando. I met was he was like, as you're traveling around, this is a great opportunity to go to these different neighborhoods. You're still trying to learn. So walk around and say, What do I like about this neighborhood?

00:31:04:06 - 00:31:26:16
Tesho Akindele
What don't I like? What makes this place great? What does this one that we're seeing here in Charlotte is something new that I've been trying to do is post examples of almost single family home type developments that are still dense because I think this is actually an important point and something that's kind of brewing in my mind right now is a lot of the Urbanist movement.

00:31:26:19 - 00:31:49:19
Tesho Akindele
We talk about density, which which is important, but we usually frame it through, let's say a four plex, a duplex, all of this types of things which a lot of Americans have the American dream, single family house. And so like the fact that you're connecting density to apartment buildings or duplexes, they're immediately turned off. So I started thinking about how can you show people that density that looks different?

00:31:49:22 - 00:32:09:29
Tesho Akindele
And I think this is a great example of I'm sure almost anybody who are live in any single family house would live in this development right here. It's beautiful. Well, design. But but I mean, look at it. I think there's maybe 18 houses on 1.4 acres or something like that. That's that's enough density to create a nice, walkable neighborhood right there.

00:32:10:01 - 00:32:32:22
Tesho Akindele
So I think this type of development actually plays a really key role in somewhere like Charlotte, which is known for its sprawl. You're not just going to put apartments, you know, Charlotte's not going to turn into a manhattan tomorrow, so how can we start moving it forward? I think it's more of these type of almost pocket neighborhoods of density where you just have a few houses within an acre.

00:32:32:24 - 00:32:55:14
Tesho Akindele
It's still beautiful. I think you get a different type of consumer for these types of products than you may get for you know, just like a traditional apartment complex or a four plex. And yeah, so I'm trying to highlight these. And another thing. So this, this is Kim North and actually so this this is jumping forward again a little bit into what I'm doing now.

00:32:55:16 - 00:33:21:01
Tesho Akindele
So Kim North End is a 76 acre. We we took out historic like adaptive reuse and ground up development project. So there was 1.5 million square feet of almost abandoned industrial space. So basically we turned that into class-A office space and restaurants, and then we're building about 2000 apartments on the site. And this is one mile away from the heart of Charlotte, North Carolina.

00:33:21:01 - 00:33:34:29
Tesho Akindele
So it's connected, it's walkable. And, you know, I said at the beginning, my goal is to build better neighborhoods. So the fact that I was able to jump into this new career and work on a project here like kind of North End has been a real blessing for me, for sure.

00:33:35:02 - 00:33:59:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. And you mentioned only one mile from really the heart of of of Charlotte. And one of the things that I was just really impressed with was also the build out of the bike network. So you've got to get two things that are happening here simultaneously is you if you do have the the transit system that is is in place and so you have a rail transit line.

00:33:59:13 - 00:34:28:06
John Simmerman
I think if the history of my history is right, I think that they got that transit line from money that Orlando didn't use. Yes. You were able to build out their transit. And so they have rail transit was serving some amazing neighborhoods, but they also have the build out of the bicycle network, which is a combination of off street network of pathways that are following some wonderful green greenways and spaces.

00:34:28:06 - 00:34:51:17
John Simmerman
But then you also have a burgeoning, protected and separated on street network of of of lanes that are coming in. And I found it very very I was surprised to begin with. I mean I had heard notoriously about the amount of sprawl that exists in the Charlotte area, over 300 square miles, I believe, of of actual city land.

00:34:51:24 - 00:35:13:20
John Simmerman
But then just it it was inherently the distances were quite doable, you know, within, you know, being able to get to some of these meaningful destinations. So it's great to hear that this particular site is going to be, you know, from a distance perspective, very reachable. Now, is this also accessible from any of the main transit lines?

00:35:13:22 - 00:35:34:29
Tesho Akindele
It's a these are walkway. I think it's like a mile walk or so to the closest transit station. There's plans for the city. Actually, if you see on that map, there's like a big kind of dark slash between those red buildings on the right hand side, right? Yeah. So the city hopes one day to bring the red line, which would be a future expansion of our light rail system right through there.

00:35:35:06 - 00:35:56:15
Tesho Akindele
That's actually a railroad, abandoned railroad from Norfolk Southern right now. So it's not our land. It sits there. It's an easement right through the middle of our property. The city and the state actually are negotiating with Norfolk Southern on like kind of giving up their easement there. So one day maybe there can be a transit connection literally through the middle of our project, which would be a dream come true.

00:35:56:15 - 00:36:06:26
Tesho Akindele
But right now it's about a mile walk to the transit, but it's also a mile walk or so to the heart of downtown. So in on a bike, it's it's even easier than that.

00:36:06:28 - 00:36:30:14
John Simmerman
That's a piece of cake. I mean, that's one of the things that I try to really emphasize on the Active Towns channel is that since we're not talking about proximity use in densities that are European stone standards or even like standards of like Philadelphia or, you know, the core of D.C., we're looking at distances that are a little longer, but they're perfectly bikeable.

00:36:30:17 - 00:36:51:24
John Simmerman
These are perfectly bikeable distances, even in the heat of summer. You know, I can jump on my bike and ride the almost two miles to Whole Foods to do my grocery shopping, even when it's 170 degrees out here, you know, it's like I've got a little electric access bike. I can get up and down the hills the breeze is fine even during hot, humid conditions.

00:36:51:27 - 00:37:19:27
John Simmerman
And so that's one of the things to keep in mind is that if you really want to open up the possibility use for developments like this is okay, we don't have that transit stop yet, but do we have bike ability? Do we have a corridor where we can have a separated path to have the ability to create a protected bike lane through, you know, this area so that you know, hey, that one mile to get to the transit to get to a different location.

00:37:19:29 - 00:37:22:20
John Simmerman
Piece of cake. We can easily do that.

00:37:22:23 - 00:37:45:28
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, you were saying earlier that you were in Charlotte and you were kind of surprised at the bike map where you saw. I think it's it's almost our duty as urbanists to highlight good examples that are already happening in our cities and art and have been done. It is very easy to kind of complain about the city is not doing enough that Charlotte is too sprawled out, etc. etc., which is true.

00:37:46:02 - 00:38:08:07
Tesho Akindele
But there's also a ton of great examples in Charlotte right now of great walkability, great bike ability, the bike networks, there's a route, there's a light rail going right through the city. There are great examples of all of these ideas in play, and I think we should maybe think about doing a little bit more to highlight the positive instead of constantly fighting against the negative.

00:38:08:07 - 00:38:28:12
Tesho Akindele
I think people like to support positive messaging. And so I think if you if you keep showing people, hey, you're in Charlotte, don't you like these few? Yes. Where are we? Shouldn't we build some more neighborhoods like this? And I think that's where you start. You know, like I live in Noda, there's Plaza Midwood, for example, south and that are great little pockets kind of close into the city.

00:38:28:16 - 00:38:51:00
Tesho Akindele
Can we just kind of start pushing and expanding the borders of that walkability outwards? You don't need to start in the far flung corners of Charlotte to fix the city. It's you take those positive examples. And I think I think again, in the same way that I was saying, tone things down a little bit, I think that we also need to cheer things up a little bit and and put more of a positive spin on things.

00:38:51:00 - 00:39:03:16
Tesho Akindele
You know, that the US is not perfect, but there's good stuff happening. And I think if we kind of if we if we keep our tone positive, I think it's easier for people to join the movement.

00:39:03:18 - 00:39:09:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, Thank you very much. That was like a pitch for for Active Towns YouTube channel. Yeah.

00:39:09:19 - 00:39:32:05
Tesho Akindele
I know. Exactly. And that's when we talk to as can you that's why we we resonated so much because we both kind of had that that positive outlook on the situation is like everybody everybody wants change and change. There's a bunch of ways to go about it. My way is to just of highlight positivity and lean into that and kind of get people pushing for those more like you're seeing here on the right hand side.

00:39:32:07 - 00:39:55:09
Tesho Akindele
This is Camp North and everything you're seeing was an abandoned industrial site, you know, just a few years ago. And look at it now. There's there's shops, there's these are offices. We actually have an e-bike rental kind of place here at Camp North. And there's this plant shop. All of this stuff is happening in a place that was formerly just very industrial, only kind of office place.

00:39:55:09 - 00:40:00:05
Tesho Akindele
So it's possible to create change. We're doing it here and people are doing it all over the country.

00:40:00:08 - 00:40:46:24
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And, and I'm only half joking about that being a wonderful pitch for for the Active Towns channel really is I mean I obviously I produced this podcast one episode per week I'm producing anywhere two and three, sometimes even four additional videos per week of doing just that, trying to profile positive things that are happening globally. So I have the good fortune of being able to travel internationally as well as around the country to try to profile the people, places and programs that are helping to create a culture of activity and and bring walkability and bike ability and the ability to, you know, counter what is, you know, sort of a sort of insidious

00:40:46:24 - 00:41:16:27
John Simmerman
car centric car dependency. So there's there is that opportunity to do it. So I really appreciate you saying, you know, and pointing that out that we need to do better at storytelling. And that's that's my core mission with the active tennis channels to tell those stories. So, yeah, we're looking at some pretty vibrant stuff, you know, here. And again, you know, really core to the urbanism mantra of, you know, hey, it's got to be able to be you got that work, the play, the learn this day.

00:41:16:29 - 00:41:25:24
John Simmerman
It's all trying to to talk about that fact of, you know, do we have meaningful destinations within walking and biking distance to to where we're living.

00:41:25:26 - 00:41:40:21
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. 100% And we're you know here at Camp North and we're trying to kind of create the cultural hub for Charlotte. So we want to be the place where if you're an artist, where the artists meet up, they meet up at Camp North, and if you're an athlete want to watch a sports game, where do they meet? Up Camp North.

00:41:40:21 - 00:41:49:11
Tesho Akindele
And, you know, if you're if you're trying to work out where like we have a run group that meets here every Tuesday, 600 people, every single Tuesday, it's like, wait.

00:41:49:13 - 00:41:49:25
John Simmerman
A minute.

00:41:49:25 - 00:42:10:01
Tesho Akindele
Nine mile an hour people, Mad Miles run group. It's ridiculous. Yeah, you guys will have to check it out on their Instagram is you can see the videos because it's a team of 600 people every single week. So it's like if you're into running where you come, you come to Camp north and we want to be kind of the cultural hub for Charlotte, creating those, those amazing experiences.

00:42:10:08 - 00:42:28:18
Tesho Akindele
And with 76 acres of space that is kind of under our control, we really have the chance to do some amazing things. We also have here on our team, we have a community team who kind of curates and manages those types of events, make sure that there's always something interesting and cool happening here. So yeah, it's important. Yeah.

00:42:28:23 - 00:42:45:08
Tesho Akindele
And then you can see kind of the proximity. So Cam North End is basically the little triangle that you see in the foreground. And then in the background is, is the city. So you just literally take the road on the left hand side. That's Graham Street that goes straight into the middle of Charlotte, less than a mile walk or bike ride away.

00:42:45:10 - 00:42:46:12
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:42:46:15 - 00:43:08:03
Tesho Akindele
Something I guess also before we move on is, you know, we're in the tabs is a workplace they learn and a lot of times in urbanism we actually talk a lot about, I would say the live and play. We talk a lot about the housing and we talk about, you know, coffee shop type of things, but we don't talk much about offices.

00:43:08:03 - 00:43:27:09
Tesho Akindele
Right. And like, offices are people spend 8 hours a day at the office a lot of time maybe. You know, that's something that we need to talk a little bit more about is bringing, you know, office space into these walkable communities. Even where I live in Nevada, it's an amazing neighborhood. There's a bunch of housing there. There's a bunch of restaurants out there.

00:43:27:09 - 00:43:55:19
Tesho Akindele
There's no offices there, you know, So it's kind of like it's it's not fully integrated in the Jane Jacobs style of of like different uses in the same place. So, you know, there you see some of the office space that we have kind of built in to camp north and you know so on the outside we have the run clubs going on and we have all of the, you know, the shops and the restaurants, but there's also a ton of office space here at Camp North End where we have some tenants that have already moved in and, you know, looking to get more.

00:43:55:19 - 00:44:19:09
Tesho Akindele
But I think that's also a really important part of walkability, walkable neighborhoods, transit, connectedness in terms of like, where are you going to A lot of place that people are going to is to an office. So if you have the office is way out. But the the live and the play in one place, it doesn't really work. You need all of it kind of together to make.

00:44:19:11 - 00:44:45:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I'm really glad you mentioned that too, because I think that that's one of the most critical decisions that if somebody is relocating, they're, you know, they're like, okay, my, my professional soccer playing career is done in Orlando. I want to move to Charlotte. And it's like, okay, where where do I put down roots? Where do I, you know, move and establish my family?

00:44:46:01 - 00:45:30:21
John Simmerman
Do I want to do it? You over here? And then but way over there is where the office is. And I'm committing myself to this long, you know, commute. And I'm glad that you mentioned, you know, there's this integration of making sure that you don't forget about office space and and space to be able for corporate, you know, corporate headquarters, you know, businesses to to establish a place that's near meaningful destinations, near restaurants, near housing and it enabling it, making it legal, legalizing the ability for people to have housing near where they're artists studio is, where the work is, where the play is.

00:45:30:24 - 00:45:46:12
John Simmerman
That's that's why we put those words together in those tabs together in that way, because we mean it. We we do want to see people having that option, that choice of being able to live near where they work, near where they play.

00:45:46:15 - 00:46:02:16
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. I think it's also another way to just kind of extend that umbrella. You know, if you have office space within a walkable neighborhood or say someone has office space here at Camp North and they they probably arrive by car right now, which is, you know, the typical way in someone in Charlotte gets to work. But then you're here and you say, where do we go to lunch?

00:46:02:16 - 00:46:26:03
Tesho Akindele
Oh, we could just we could walk over here to lunch. Oh, after lunch, we have the farmer's market. Let's walk to the farmer's market, and you start getting, like a little bit of walkability kind of introduced into your life. I think that's another way that you just kind of through experience, storytelling, etc., can kind of can expand that umbrella and get more people who maybe haven't thought about the importance of walkability can kind of get them on our team as it is.

00:46:26:05 - 00:46:43:29
John Simmerman
Yeah. And going back to the overhead view here too, is like, you know, so, you know, maybe somebody is going to work for an organization that has set up in, you know, office space, you know, here at North End. And, you know, their lease comes up and they happen to live, you know, on the other side of town.

00:46:44:02 - 00:46:51:00
John Simmerman
And yet there's a really cool place that, you know, within walking distance that has just come up or new path.

00:46:51:00 - 00:47:11:04
Tesho Akindele
We're also building 2000 apartments at Camp North End. So we're under construction right now on our first 300. Those will be finished next year. And then we're going to start construction on the next 300, you know, at the beginning of next year. So we're going to keep building apartments. There should be about 2000 apartments at the end of the day, kind of here within within what you see on this picture.

00:47:11:06 - 00:47:40:23
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And we talked about affordability earlier and the reason why legalized housing is one of those mantras that we have out there is that if we legalize being able to build high quality housing stock of different types, just like you said, even some of those, you know, creative types of of of housing, you know, that you were talking about earlier, you know, this this gives more choice, more options.

00:47:40:23 - 00:48:12:06
John Simmerman
And if we can get that attractive, desirable housing within walking and biking distance to more desirable places, you know, hopefully we can just kind of break that car addiction of or feeling like there's no other choice. We have to drive. You mentioned it earlier. Maybe they're driving now, but if you know that little bit of taste of walkability, oh, walk to the lunch spot or.

00:48:12:06 - 00:48:28:20
John Simmerman
Oh, by the way, did you know we can ride our bikes from here to downtown really easily, short, you know, distance, proximity, etc.. It's that little taste of, oh maybe, you know, it's a positive success story that we were talking about earlier.

00:48:28:23 - 00:48:52:04
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, for sure. And even, you know, I'm not sure the exact stats, but something like, let's say 90% of trips made by Americans are done by car. So even if we just if they would drive to work but their lunch breaks, they're always going to by foot. That's a huge reduction in like vehicle miles traveled for most people, whereas most people are driving to work, then driving to lunch, driving back to work, driving home, etc..

00:48:52:06 - 00:49:10:09
Tesho Akindele
So even if you can just take a few of those car trips I think is significant. You know, we don't need to go from a country where 90% of trips are by car to a country where 10% of trips are by car. That's not going to happen overnight. I think it's significant to move from 90% to 75%. That's a huge change.

00:49:10:09 - 00:49:32:07
Tesho Akindele
You know, And then once you're you're in a world where 75% is achievable, 50% is on the horizon. And, you know, you kind of keep moving in that direction where it's just kind of inevitable, you know. So I think we also can't overlook the importance of just taking one or two trips or just just moving that number slightly in the right direction is also powerful.

00:49:32:10 - 00:49:57:20
John Simmerman
Yeah. And when we when you do look at the data of what the trips are like and the distances that we're traveling when we're in an automobile in North America, on average, about 40 to 50% of all trips are within easy biking distance. And you let that sink in and you're like, Oh, wow, you mean 40, 50% of trips are within easy, reasonable biking distance.

00:49:57:20 - 00:50:19:28
John Simmerman
And that's not even doing the overlay of if you have an electric assist bike, it's like, oh wow, the opportunities are there. Then you look at the Dutch and you and you look at, you know, Amsterdam. You mentioned Amsterdam earlier. You look at the Dutch model and you see it's not like, you know, 70% of of people there, you know, are only riding a bike.

00:50:20:01 - 00:50:41:29
John Simmerman
It's like they actually have mode balance in the sense that about 30% of people, you know, kind of get to work or whatever by car, 30% is by public transit in about 30%. You know, on average across the entire nation is is getting around by walking and biking. And so you have that and some denser areas and even like a new tract may be skewed a little bit one way or the other.

00:50:41:29 - 00:51:09:20
John Simmerman
And maybe you have, you know, closer to 40 to 50 to 60% getting around by bike. But your point is and the point is, is that even just slight modal shifts getting out of those inherently bikeable distances instead of, you know, four miles, that four mile trip to, you know, the restaurant or to downtown or whatever, if it's on a bikeable route, hey, let's let's go for a bike ride.

00:51:09:25 - 00:51:16:10
John Simmerman
It's a beautiful day. We've got electric assist. If it's a little warm, we'll show up in good condition.

00:51:16:13 - 00:51:32:26
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. No. And I think, you know, like that modal balance is actually a really important talking point when, let's say, talking to people who haven't thought about this much. Because if you tell people, you know, you need to stop driving your car today and like never drive your car, get a lot of people, that's just going to shut them off.

00:51:33:00 - 00:51:52:15
Tesho Akindele
But if you say, like you said, hey, you know, aren't a few of those trips like in pretty easy walking or biking distance for you, maybe you can get them kind of opening their mind up. And I think that's kind of a more palatable message for a lot of people. And again, it just broadens the umbrella, gets more people on our side moving this forward.

00:51:52:15 - 00:51:57:25
Tesho Akindele
So I think understanding like modal balance and presenting the message that way is also really helpful.

00:51:57:27 - 00:52:32:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And in you'd mentioned it earlier, you know, telling the positive stories and you know, and really honing in on the joy of being able to get to meaningful destinations under your own power and not feeling like, Oh, we have to get back in the car, especially if you, you do have to commute, you know, bike or, you know, maybe the distances are truly, you know, on a, you know, unattainable through transit and by walking and biking maybe when you get home, the last thing in the world that you want to do is get back in the car to be able to do something.

00:52:32:11 - 00:52:52:24
John Simmerman
I'd much rather be able to jump on the transit line, you know, and ride the train to downtown, jump on your bike and be able to, you know, to go out for the evening. I was staying in an Airbnb along the the south end along the trail line, you know, the rail line, the rail trail, the rail trail.

00:52:52:25 - 00:53:08:21
John Simmerman
And it was just absolutely wonderful for me to be filming and documenting the young professionals that are just thriving in this environment because they're able to walk and bike to so many cool places. It was really, really a neat thing to see.

00:53:08:23 - 00:53:29:03
Tesho Akindele
Yeah. And like I said, you know, Charlotte, a city that is not really known for this, does have a lot of a lot of this going on. There's a lot of walkability in especially in certain neighborhoods in Charlotte. And I found that very true of of every city. Honestly, like you mentioned Oklahoma City earlier, you know, I was I was traveling around the country when I was playing soccer.

00:53:29:05 - 00:53:47:13
Tesho Akindele
Every single city I went to, even like Columbus, Ohio, for example, for example, or Cincinnati, you know, these might be places that you think, oh, it's it can't be walkable. Everybody's know there are places like that in all of these cities that are just beautiful neighborhoods with a ton of walkability, likability, you know, like live work, all mixed into one.

00:53:47:19 - 00:54:15:26
Tesho Akindele
So it is happening all over the place. And another thing you mentioned is, you know, the young professionals. So another kind of thing that I'm working on is we have done in this country a decent job of providing walkability to young professionals. We have not done such a good job, I think, of providing it to families. Families needs are often very different with what is a walkable neighborhood to a family is also different than like where I go.

00:54:15:26 - 00:54:39:18
Tesho Akindele
I go to my kids daycare every single day and I go to the park every single day. You know, like a young professional. They don't need to be in the same neighborhood as that. Maybe. So just like understanding how can we, you know, build in more family friendliness into our neighborhoods and make sure that families don't feel like, okay, in my young professional stage, whatever, 22, 27, I'm in South End, but then I have to move out, you know, way out into the suburbs.

00:54:39:26 - 00:54:47:28
Tesho Akindele
How can we kind of keep people through different stage of their life in the city, in more walkable neighborhoods? I think is also an important conversation and discussion.

00:54:48:00 - 00:55:06:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, Yeah. And you just mentioned Cincinnati, which of course is the destination next year for the new gathering. So seeing you, 32 will be in Cincinnati. And again, to my point earlier, I've never been to Cincinnati, so it'll give me an opportunity to visit.

00:55:06:09 - 00:55:28:03
Tesho Akindele
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if anybody goes on my Twitter. I went to the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood in Cincinnati and it's beautiful. There's some beautiful buildings, old buildings. It's very walkable neighborhoods. So I think, you know, the same way a lot of people I talked to at this seeing. You were pleasantly surprised with Charlotte. I think you'll find the same thing in Cincinnati.

00:55:28:06 - 00:55:34:17
John Simmerman
Sasha, what have we not mentioned that you want to make sure we leave the audience with?

00:55:34:19 - 00:56:02:26
Tesho Akindele
I think so. Okay. One thing I would say is I'm a I'm a real estate developer. I work for a real estate developer. Now, a lot I have found that there is sometimes there's a disconnect between the urbanists and the developers, but we need we need to be on the same team, you know, like if you want to build more walkable neighborhoods and you want to build housing and more walkable neighborhoods, you need the developers to do it, you know, or you need to become a developer and do it yourself.

00:56:02:29 - 00:56:20:13
Tesho Akindele
And I think that that's a message that I would like to get out to more people is developers play an extremely important role in shaping our cities. I mean, you know, your favorite restaurant, the house you grew up in, the school you went to, all of that was was literally built and put together by developers. You know, think about how important that is.

00:56:20:13 - 00:56:53:09
Tesho Akindele
So if you want to shape the city, you know, there's lots of ways to do it. You can do it from a media point of view, like you're doing it, you can do it from a public policy point of view and join the political side of things or architects planning, etc., etc.. I think what we're really missing in this movement is more people being the developers and pushing it, pushing it forward in that way, because at some point we can have the best plans, the best policies, the best zoning, etc., etc. But if no one is going to actually like do the thing and like build the buildings and make it happen, it won't happen,

00:56:53:09 - 00:57:16:20
Tesho Akindele
you know, even with the most perfectly laid out plan. So I guess, you know, if you said if there's one thing we left out, it would be my call to action to urbanists to become developers like yourself, you know, like whether it's like, build the duplex in that, you know. Yes. To my backyard. Build the duplex in the vacant lot next to you or down the block or whatever, rehab that that empty house and turn it into something beautiful, etc..

00:57:16:20 - 00:57:22:07
Tesho Akindele
Like become the developer I think is is maybe the thing that I would like to leave you with.

00:57:22:09 - 00:58:07:27
John Simmerman
Well, it's interesting too, because I think one of the things that we end up hearing from a lot of of developers, of sprawl is that, hey, we're just building what people want. And the pushback that we have been seeing in urbanism is not true. We're not giving any other choice. And so, you know, if if we don't have good development and attractive places that are within walkable, bikeable distances, then, you know, then yeah, families do end up moving out to the suburbs because that's really the only viable product that they feel like they have to point earlier is that, you know, what, what person, what family that, you know, would prefer a single family home

00:58:07:29 - 00:58:27:26
John Simmerman
wouldn't love this particular development. This is gorgeous. And it happens to be on a footprint that is more affordable and walkable, much more sustainable from a strong towns perspective, you know? Yeah. So I guess a little bit of it is, you know, the whole chicken and egg thing of, you know, we as a population do need to speak up.

00:58:27:29 - 00:58:50:05
John Simmerman
We need to come together within our groups and start talking about it to bring us back around to our conversation from earlier. Start talking with your your your family and friends and your neighbors and talking about these urbanism types of things in a non-threatening, non pushing way, obviously, like we talked about earlier, because for many people this this isn't in their their radar.

00:58:50:05 - 00:59:07:04
John Simmerman
You know, they're not this isn't on their scope. This isn't in their vision. But at the same time, telling these positive stories and saying, yeah, this is kind of cool, but what's going on in Charlotte and you got to check out this, you know, camp ignore and this is really good stuff.

00:59:07:07 - 00:59:29:22
Tesho Akindele
Yeah, no. And you know, even kind of going back to what you said about developers are saying we're building this sprawl single family houses because that's what people want. Okay. I think they're wrong. You think they're wrong. So isn't that a great opportunity for us to, like, bet against them? You know, like, I'm willing to bet that they're wrong and I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to build the opposite of that because I think they're wrong.

00:59:29:29 - 00:59:54:24
Tesho Akindele
And I think that more people should should consider doing that. Like if you're sure that they're wrong, which I think we're you know, me and you and everybody listening to. Sure. That they're wrong. Let's hop in the arena and and like build the opposite of improve prove that they're wrong, you know, And maybe if you do it yourself as a job or maybe you like, find those local developers and you even speak up like come to the city council meetings and speak up for the people who are trying to to build these projects.

00:59:54:24 - 01:00:10:12
Tesho Akindele
You know, it's easy to to say, you know, you want this project, but then it comes up in front of city council. A lot of people are going to the NIMBYs show up. You know, they really do show up in force to fight against some of these things. So let's show up as together and say like, no, this is enough for them.

01:00:10:12 - 01:00:21:17
Tesho Akindele
We want these kind of developments in our neighborhood. We want to push this forward, you know, like I'm willing to bet on that. And they kind of put my my career in that way because I think it is the future.

01:00:21:19 - 01:00:42:04
John Simmerman
Yeah. And so for for folks that are getting a little agitated and triggered right now and they're like, take away my suburban home, don't worry, they're not going anywhere. There's still going to be a legitimate market for that type of housing. What we're really talking about here is, again, like we were talking about with mobility is creating choice.

01:00:42:06 - 01:01:08:25
John Simmerman
We we just haven't had this level of choice. I mean, literally when we go to the t shirt, this is legalized housing in most of our North American cities. It's been illegal to build, you know, this type of housing. And so it's we're just now getting beyond that point and legalizing the ability to to be able to have denser housing products for people who do choose.

01:01:08:25 - 01:01:34:27
John Simmerman
That's what they would prefer. There will always be a market for that traditional single family home in the suburban, exurban environment. It's don't worry, folks, we're not we're not advocating that that become illegal. It will be there for a long time to come. The question really is, is as since we know that it's incredibly unsustainable from a financial model, what will happen to those developments in the future.

01:01:34:29 - 01:02:06:20
John Simmerman
But we'll come to that when we get to that. But we're right now we're really focused on trying to do some very viable infill development so that we can get some places that or, you know, livable and sustainable and desirable so that we have some choice and being able to reimagine, you know, locations like this that are close in to work centers and and cultural hubs, you know, like the center a Charlotte.

01:02:06:28 - 01:02:19:10
John Simmerman
I mean, what a absolute diamond in the rough being able to identify this property and be able to develop it. And the fact that like you mentioned earlier, you've got the the rail line going right through the middle of it.

01:02:19:12 - 01:02:21:25
Tesho Akindele
Totally will Hopefully one day we do. Hopefully one day. Yeah.

01:02:21:29 - 01:02:31:18
John Simmerman
Yeah it's you have to keep your fingers crossed but I mean eventually it since it's not actively running right now hopefully you'll be able to come to that that negotiation.

01:02:31:20 - 01:02:50:01
Tesho Akindele
Exactly. We hope so. But you know I think the future is very bright in my opinion. I think there's a lot of momentum behind this. One part of that could be I've only recently, relatively recently been introduced to these ideas. So I'm now I'm seeing how many people are talking about it. But it does feel to me like there's something in the air.

01:02:50:06 - 01:03:15:13
Tesho Akindele
A lot of, for example, like Yimby in California has been winning a lot. The kind of laws and regulations around the country have been winning a lot recently in a way that I think is kind of historically unprecedented. So I think the momentum is behind us and it's it's a great time to be to be a part of this movement, to be having these conversations, to be developing these types of projects, because I think it really is where this country is headed.

01:03:15:16 - 01:03:26:27
John Simmerman
Yeah, I totally agree. I'm on board with the auto show team. So yes. Hey, thank you so very much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure.

01:03:27:00 - 01:03:31:16
Tesho Akindele
Thanks for having me. I hope I can make it out to see a new 32 and catch you in Cincinnati.

01:03:31:18 - 01:03:34:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, and come visit in Austin one of these days.

01:03:34:15 - 01:03:35:26
Tesho Akindele
We'll do well there.

01:03:35:29 - 01:03:50:05
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you so much for joining and I hope you enjoyed this episode with Tazo. And if you did, please give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and read the notifications bill.

01:03:50:13 - 01:04:16:06
John Simmerman
And if you're enjoying my content, please consider becoming an active town's ambassador. Just head over to the Active Towns website Active towns dawg, and click on the support button as many opportunities for you to get engaged and involved and become one of the active Towns ambassadors. I also have a store where I sell a really cool streets for people swag out there, so click on the Active Towns, store button right there on the website.

01:04:16:08 - 01:04:36:11
John Simmerman
We can thank you so very much for tuning in. It means so much to me to have you here each and every episode. And until next time. This is John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers. And again sending a huge thank you to all my active towns ambassadors supporting the channel on Patron Buy me a coffee YouTube super Thanks.

01:04:36:13 - 01:04:47:09
John Simmerman
As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated. Thank you all so much.