Transcript exported from the video version of this episode - Note that it has not been copyedited

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:12:10
John Simmerman
Thank you so much for joining me on the Active Towns podcast. I'm so delighted to welcome in from all the way up from Montreal, Canada, Séverine and Zvi, thank you so much for joining me here on the podcast.

00:00:13:00 - 00:00:14:02
Séverine Le Page
Thank thanks for having us.

00:00:14:11 - 00:00:16:12
Zvi Leve
It's a pleasure. Look forward to fantastic way.

00:00:16:12 - 00:00:20:20
John Simmerman
I love to have my guests introduce themselves real quickly so serene. Let's start with you.

00:00:21:22 - 00:00:44:13
Séverine Le Page
My name is Séverine Le Page, and I've lived in Montreal most of my life. I've also lived in the U.S., but I've been a bike activist and militant for about ten years following my husband's death. And now I'm a spokesperson for video content Kinect, which is now Ghost Bikes and Trek. So yeah, and I'm part of other militant groups to get things infrastructure to change in our city for safer streets.

00:00:44:28 - 00:00:47:01
John Simmerman
Okay, cool. Excellent. So yeah.

00:00:48:00 - 00:01:15:24
Zvi Leve
Zvi Leve and I actually work in the transportation profession as a travel demand modeler. But my passion is really streets is public space. And I've been riding a bike pretty much all of my life is my primary motive interest. I grew up in the States actually, but I'm from Israel and I moved to Montreal in 95. And I right away, you know, tried to ride into the winter and sort of for me, the end of my second season was when I fell.

00:01:16:18 - 00:01:33:11
Zvi Leve
But gradually, like over the years, like the community, the winter community in particular has gotten more supportive and more organized and like where the bicycle is practical in the winter as well. So like, it's really impressive the amount of people who continue riding year round despite our serious winters here.

00:01:34:02 - 00:01:39:07
John Simmerman
Yeah, so you both have a little bit of experience living in the United States every Where were you at?

00:01:40:17 - 00:02:02:09
Zvi Leve
I grew up in Rochester, New York, and went to university in Buffalo and Berkeley. So I actually did ride even in the U.S. I wouldn't necessarily ride year round, but I mean, I was familiar with Winter and I remember in Buffalo I definitely road bike in cold sometimes snow weather. Yeah, maybe not every day but it was it was there weren't a lot of other people around but it was, I don't know.

00:02:02:09 - 00:02:06:26
Zvi Leve
It's always been my sort of easiest way to get around right.

00:02:06:26 - 00:02:10:12
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's ever. Even when you were in the States, where were you?

00:02:10:25 - 00:02:30:20
Séverine Le Page
Well, I grew up in California when I was in early childhood, and then I finished my high school in Florida. But I didn't. I rode my bike as a child in California, but not much in Florida there. I know the infrastructure has changed recently, but I didn't really have a bike then, so it's not too bad. But I just want to point out how beautiful these pictures are.

00:02:30:20 - 00:02:41:25
Séverine Le Page
I mean, he's what are the ones that we get to see on our social networks? And he captures cycling in Montreal and the joy of cycling really well. So it's really a pleasure to see him. Yeah.

00:02:43:12 - 00:02:45:21
Zvi Leve
Yeah. Street street photography is a passion of mine.

00:02:46:04 - 00:03:06:06
John Simmerman
I was going to say. Yeah. So street photography is one of your passions and we'll make sure that we we have plenty of links in the show notes so that folks can appreciate and see some of your great work that you do. And you said you're sort of in that industry. What what is actually, you know, the work that you're doing in the organization you're with?

00:03:06:06 - 00:03:29:17
Zvi Leve
Well, I'm now I'm an independent consultant. For many years I worked for a software company that made travel demand modeling software, and I would train people to use their product to plan, do transportation planning, essentially. And when I started my career in Israel as a transportation planner, like, one of the first things I realized was if you are not in a vehicle, you're basically not in the model, like you don't matter.

00:03:30:05 - 00:03:47:26
Zvi Leve
And I'm like, Well, you know, I ride a bike, you know, but I might have an opinion about whether I like light rail or the metro. And as far as the model was concerned, my opinion didn't matter. So that really bothered me. And um, and when I moved to Montreal, I fell in love with a montrealer in Israel and she brought me to Montreal.

00:03:48:09 - 00:04:07:01
Zvi Leve
Yeah. And one of the first things I noticed here was they really have a very special attitude towards the street as public space. Like opening up that space for community uses was a normal thing here. Like we, we opened the street for my son's fourth or fifth birthday. We had a street party in front of our house and that was like a normal thing to do.

00:04:07:15 - 00:04:27:03
Zvi Leve
So and I didn't I mean, I sort of knew in the back of my head that this was unusual, but it really is unusual, like the attitude of using streets as public space. And yeah, so and Montreal is like I don't consider myself a cyclist per se, but I appreciate the bicycle is practical for most of my needs.

00:04:27:03 - 00:04:31:26
Zvi Leve
And Montreal is a really great urban scale, so the bicycle is even more practical.

00:04:32:20 - 00:04:56:26
John Simmerman
It's so funny that you talked about that, you know, from the modeling perspective and that default towards auto normativity, you know, it's it's just like in that car brain. And before we hit the record button, Séverine and I were were talking just about that. It's just like how everything defaults to car brain and and motor vehicle language It's it just kind of creeps into our everyday life.

00:04:57:03 - 00:05:15:02
Zvi Leve
I fortunately use the models I work with. They're also public transportation. So you could be in a bus or a metro or light rail like those were options, but they're still essentially vehicle based. And if you're walking or riding a bike or using bike share or something like you're you're literally just left you're left out of the model.

00:05:15:10 - 00:05:23:19
Zvi Leve
Like it's like your opinions don't matter or you don't you don't exist for as far as the decision of the value of the project is concerned.

00:05:23:19 - 00:05:30:16
John Simmerman
So every work you're doing, I mean, some of this obviously is very, very much a part of what you're trying to counter.

00:05:31:03 - 00:05:57:10
Séverine Le Page
Well, it's true, because when we as part of a group with that now called overload, so and we're trying to kind of counter-culture so that actually other people are taking into account and and that's why we were saying it is so pervasive like you don't realize that cars dominate everything about the space they take in the street. Like you say, it opens all over the streets and everything, but it's just keep the width of the vehicles and the fact that they're so ever present.

00:05:57:14 - 00:06:17:07
Séverine Le Page
Like I said, I haven't always been an avid cyclist, but once I realized how much space the car takes, it just kind of scared me for the sake of my children because I have five children. And it just it just seems so dangerous to have them on the streets and have so much little space given to them. And and and it's it's so much fun to have more options in something that are not just cars.

00:06:17:07 - 00:06:18:12
Séverine Le Page
So. Yeah.

00:06:19:18 - 00:06:34:26
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. Now, the reason I've brought you here today is the you and I had a quick little interaction based on something that was posted about winter cycling.

00:06:35:09 - 00:06:37:09
Séverine Le Page
Can you remember what that was all about?

00:06:38:03 - 00:07:11:08
Zvi Leve
I don't remember which city it was, but I shared my photos. I have a very large photo album of winter cycling in Montreal, so and I've been following this and taking photos of winter cyclists for literally a decade or more. And it's really impressive. Like there's a number of Facebook groups dedicated to cycling issues in Montreal, but the winter cycling community in particular is by far by far the most active and they're actively around could like at some point they contemplated changing the name of the group to maybe all season cycling.

00:07:11:08 - 00:07:22:19
Zvi Leve
Right. But it's too big. It's too big actually. Like you're not allowed to change when like once a group, you know, passes like, I don't know, 5000 people or something. You cannot change the name and there's more than 20,000 people in that group.

00:07:23:10 - 00:07:42:12
Séverine Le Page
Wow. And it's really interactive. People will comment and share info all over the place. And there's actually there's 400 now, which is this Saturday. And it's just it's to attract even more winter cyclists. And there's like you said, there's it's grown in the past ten years. You see more and more people in the bike counters take that into account as well.

00:07:42:22 - 00:08:01:23
Séverine Le Page
And I don't know if you listen to there's a radio show in French every afternoon. They detail the number of bikers, the past on the winter, on the past. This is just to mention how many cyclists have gone that day, just to counter the fact that it's not just cars that are the ever present in the city. It's a lot of bikes now, even during winter, regardless of the weather.

00:08:01:23 - 00:08:06:19
Séverine Le Page
So it's actually it's growing a lot. It's exponential ever since the red, I'd say.

00:08:06:19 - 00:08:34:02
Zvi Leve
But even before even I would sort of place the beginning actually with Bixi, I think like Bixi really. I've been I've been riding a winter bike here before. It was mean. There were other people who did it. Like, I'm certainly not like one of the early adopters, but it was still a bit unusual. And Bixi like really sort of shifted perspective fixes are bike sharing system here in Montreal right And when it launched it was really ambitious actually, like way more than most other cities in North America.

00:08:34:02 - 00:08:52:06
Zvi Leve
Like it really was covered a large portion of the network from the beginning and it really changed perspectives about who is a cyclist. So people saw like, Oh, I can do that. And like you really had a wide range of people getting involved and it put a sort of a fire under the city to get more proactive and turn in adding better cycling infrastructure.

00:08:52:28 - 00:09:12:00
Zvi Leve
So it brought away, like the city understood that it's not just these like extremists on bikes, it's like really everyone and it's an important resource. And also how we use space, like the Bixi stations were actually in the street, they remove car parking for these bike parking things and that as well was like really revolutionary to actually put bike parking in the street.

00:09:12:27 - 00:09:14:20
Zvi Leve
Now if only we could find a way to keep it in the winter.

00:09:15:20 - 00:09:20:08
Séverine Le Page
But A Well, they're time. I mean, there's some station they stay but yeah, yeah.

00:09:21:00 - 00:10:15:24
John Simmerman
So I linger on this particular slide here because it's sort of speaks to something that you mentioned very, very quickly by saying, I don't identify myself as a cyclist because it gives us kind of into that language too, of, of cyclists versus non cyclists and cycling and all this sort of stuff. It's one of the reasons why as we see more and more mobility modes being able to take advantage of quote unquote the cycle network, it starts to we start to realize that active mobility and mobility is a little bit more agnostic to the the type of machine that you're on, as well as identifying as a as a cyclist in the in sometimes the

00:10:15:24 - 00:10:41:27
John Simmerman
baggage that comes along with being called a cyclist. You know, the Dutch don't think about that. I mean they're just like, oh yeah, we just, we ride bikes, you know, the mode of transportation or, you know, Chris and Melissa Brant let you know. Chris loves to just say it's pedestrian plus and just moving a slightly faster speed than I and more practical speed than if I'm walking.

00:10:42:06 - 00:11:05:22
John Simmerman
And so I just wanted to highlight that because you did highlighted in this very first slide of, you know, being able to to, to point out that what we're talking about here is not just sport and leisure. This is just a mode of getting around a practical mode of getting around if the infrastructure is there. And then we'll talk about this, too, because I know this is a subtheme, especially with winter.

00:11:06:00 - 00:11:16:27
John Simmerman
If the infrastructure is there and there's that layer of maintenance and management of that infrastructure so that you can actually use it exactly.

00:11:16:27 - 00:11:30:06
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, that's true. And and you do see a lot more families like this picture. It seems so much more common now with the cargo bikes and the long tails. And in winter I'll I'll throw winter knowledge that it's so much more fun to see this being normalized, Right.

00:11:30:16 - 00:11:50:01
John Simmerman
Yeah. And here it is, though, in the early days, there have always been people who rode year round. But it can be a challenge if if it's just really, really difficult. Now, I'm in Austin right now, so I'm in Texas. I don't get very much of this when we get this. It's a problem, a big problem because we're not ready for it.

00:11:50:10 - 00:12:16:05
John Simmerman
But I have lived in Chicago, I've lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan, so I've lived and ridden my bike for utilitarian purposes through this type of weather. Talk a little bit about that evolution that has happened there in Montreal with regards to this fact that there are people who want to ride year round. But in the early days it was it was rough.

00:12:17:28 - 00:12:38:21
Zvi Leve
Guys. So here in both of these pictures, I used to work at the University of Montreal as a researcher and there is actually a metro station there, but the university is up on the mountain. It's actually quite high. And despite having public transportation options like the bike was just so much easier for me to get there. So I would ride up and it was uphill the whole way.

00:12:39:03 - 00:13:00:13
Zvi Leve
So I would ride there and I wasn't the only one. So these are people and I actually would ride in this corridor before there was a bike path there and there were a few other people who did it. And then at some point the city built like a pretty wide bidirectional bike path, which really changed. It was a game changer for the kind of people who are writing to the university and beyond.

00:13:01:14 - 00:13:18:08
Zvi Leve
But it wasn't being maintained in the winter, so it was like, yes, you have this bike path, which actually it was it was sort of problematic because it was bi directional, so I tended to avoid it. But anyway, but it was like really frustrating though that it was there and it wasn't being maintained in the winter.

00:13:18:22 - 00:13:22:28
Séverine Le Page
So but soon it is.

00:13:22:29 - 00:13:55:11
Zvi Leve
But this is what it looks like. Like this. The bike became like a snow dump. Yeah. And so there were actually this was bothering like a number of people and it got them so motivated that they actually literally took the shovels into their own hands and sort of made a sort of symbolic statement in front of the town hall when when a city council meeting was going on that, you know, you have this brand new psychopath and like if you don't maintain it, will maintain it sort of you know, we invited the media to be there and it got a lot of attention.

00:13:55:11 - 00:14:15:05
Zvi Leve
And the city did start maintaining that that particular psychopath in the winter. Yeah. And it really did bring like it was it was impressive. Like the amount of people who would ride bikes in that corridor. Like when I was doing it, we were we were not many, but like once a psychopath came was there were a lot of people who are writing.

00:14:15:05 - 00:14:21:29
Zvi Leve
There's a few cegeps and schools along there as well, like there were a lot more people and a wider range of people who were writing there.

00:14:22:05 - 00:14:57:01
John Simmerman
So it's a very you and I were talking before we hit the record button about the different kind of levels of of I don't want to say leadership, but it includes leadership. The things that have to, you know, be in place to be able to see transformation in cities. And so, yes, the leadership at the very, very top, including city government, provincial government, state government, all the way up to federal government, but then pushing down into city administration, down to advocacy, organized actions and people, you know, coming together to do things.

00:14:57:13 - 00:15:20:07
John Simmerman
But then in between advocacy and just the community is activists and militant groups and people who are willing to grab shovels and just take it into their own hands and invite the news to come out. Talk a little bit about that, because that's one of the things that you self-identified with, is that you're very active and involved with militant groups.

00:15:21:14 - 00:15:31:26
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about that and also talk about the the cultural use of that word of militant groups, because it kind of like, oh, gosh, well, what is this?

00:15:32:20 - 00:15:49:19
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, I know media has a different kind of station in the U.S., but here it really sounds very positive. And there was actually in the seventies, there was a militant group that led to the creation of our bike path, and it was called Lemonade Slept, which was led by Clair Morissette and Bob Silverman. And he even coined the term bikes of it.

00:15:50:02 - 00:16:18:08
Séverine Le Page
So and they would build their own bike parts over the night when they thought that there weren't any. So it's very similar to the ones that the people who did their shovels. But I'm part of militant groups because my my husband, like I said, he's the spokesperson for our neighborhood group. But what I've seen is in many boroughs, and this is part of one in his in his neighborhood as well, neighborhoods have created local mobility and active mobility groups just to act for infrastructure where there is none.

00:16:18:20 - 00:16:42:15
Séverine Le Page
And we're lucky in my neighborhood with and hunting because we've gotten very cool cycle paths that are connected and very used. But we that we discussed with our local elected officials, we have conversations, we sit on panels, we write briefs, and now we organize activities that are fun. And just to get people in the neighborhood involved with a cycle of laughs where we ask people to take the bike paths because that would just be more fun.

00:16:42:15 - 00:17:05:05
Séverine Le Page
And we figured if people take ownership of the streets going back to the street as public spaces like will say, then you're going to want to keep using that space for fun activities which have to do with, you know, interacting and social and physical physical bonuses. Not like I'm part of that group. I'm part of video Phantom, which installs the ghost bike when cyclists have died because of the collision.

00:17:05:16 - 00:17:38:23
Séverine Le Page
And and I'm also, like I said, part of the video show which is the more than 2.0 and we're trying to do fun stuff fun activities to just get the conversation started about the appropriation of our space versus human space. And there's been a really cool study conducted by pretty technical Montreal when they measured the space that cars take up in our city, and it's 78% of the space in our city is for cars alone and there's 1.3 for bike parts and like about, I don't know, 2% for public transport.

00:17:39:01 - 00:17:58:28
Séverine Le Page
So it's a huge amount on vehicles and and things that are not human. And whereas when you're on a bike, you get to see somebody, you cross them at the light, you say, Hi there, you've got a flat or maybe can you give me a hand? Where are you going? There's a critical mass. I can try to you can talk to people when you can't do So that's basically with the community.

00:17:58:28 - 00:18:02:07
Séverine Le Page
It's all interconnected to be part of your city, in your neighborhood.

00:18:03:04 - 00:18:35:22
John Simmerman
Yeah, it's it's really very, very interesting, too. And oh, by the way, here we are. Here's a Bixi. Here's the here's one of the Bixi stations that stays open, the winter Bixi. But yeah, it's it's fascinating, too. And I want to point out that we sort of hold upon the high the Dutch system and where they're at and and the success that's happened in Copenhagen in several other locations and for good reason.

00:18:35:22 - 00:19:00:03
John Simmerman
I mean, the numbers that they are putting up are just extraordinary. And the integration of riding a bike for utilitarian purposes is second nature there. We mentioned it earlier. They don't identify as a as a cyclists, they just ride the bike. But it's worth pointing out that five decades ago, you know, they went through the battles. They had the militant groups, the activists that had to fight for this.

00:19:00:03 - 00:19:33:09
John Simmerman
They're just a few decades ahead of us here in North America. Arguably, Montreal is the farthest ahead in terms of, you know, making progress. I'm sure that doesn't you know, you're like big wow, we've got lots to do yet, but you really are. I mean, it's amazing, you know, how far along Montreal is. And so I like to point I like to point your direction and say, hey, if you're looking for a North American example, make sure if you haven't been there, make sure you get there and pick your season.

00:19:33:29 - 00:19:49:15
John Simmerman
If you want to see examples of what it's like to do it right in the winter, you know, hey, they'll they'll walk you along. They'll show you the good, the bad and the ugly, you know, the stuff that is working well and the stuff that still needs work. Or if you want, you know, summertime, get up there. I mean, it's a frickin party up there.

00:19:50:04 - 00:20:14:03
Séverine Le Page
So but it's interesting that you mentioned that we have so much to do because that's why the critical masses have taken up again that they started again last year. And there's one every last Friday of every month because people find we still have so much that needs to be done. But we're far from the objectives that we want where everybody can choose their mode of transportation, depending on which the most feasible in the most practical.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:31:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, I would say this let's let's put a pin in critical mass because I want to talk about critical mass by itself. But to follow up on the whole reason why we're talking winter cycling, and this is as these you know, this was your I keep saying the V Xavier's a v.

00:20:31:23 - 00:20:33:00
Zvi Leve
To v v z.

00:20:33:17 - 00:20:34:21
John Simmerman
Yes, there we go.

00:20:35:05 - 00:20:36:29
Zvi Leve
But I don't, I don't I'm used to not correcting people.

00:20:36:29 - 00:21:06:01
John Simmerman
So this, this is the whole point of what are that interaction that you were having was the fact that there is these groups, these events and these things that are happening. Because one of the things that I like to point out from an active towns perspective, when we when we talk about this in this language of creating building activity assets, building the hardware, getting the infrastructure done, that's just step one.

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:34:29
John Simmerman
It's got to be safe, it's got to be authentic, it's got to be inviting. But the second step is the software bringing, you know, the that hardware to life. And that's where the policies come in. That's where the procedures are in place. That's where events and activation must take place. And the social support networks talk a little bit about this in terms of of how you all are coming together to support each other in the wintertime, to remain active, keep writing.

00:21:35:16 - 00:21:52:11
Zvi Leve
Well, first of all, I think it's really important to emphasize that I think people like Montreal is really leaps and bounds ahead of other cities in North America in terms of the number of people and the type of people who ride bikes. Right. But it's not because of our infrastructure. It's really to some degree, in spite of it.

00:21:52:21 - 00:22:14:09
Zvi Leve
It's really the urban scale of the city. And like we have a very mid-scale density over huge parts of the city. So it's like walking, cycling and public transportation are valuable ways of getting around here. And there have been the city actually is still trying to change that to make it easier to drive cars. But but I think that's really the reason why.

00:22:14:09 - 00:22:34:13
Zvi Leve
So many people use active transportation here. And even in the winter, like it's surprising, like, yes, we have serious winters, but when you're outside, people still walk, people still ride bikes and they still like we have actually festivals outside in the winter like our are we have it's called them or in Yeah like a light festival that's just beginning tonight.

00:22:34:13 - 00:23:09:24
Zvi Leve
It's like a three week period of outdoor events like outdoors in the winter. And so this is pretty common here. This is photo for a few years. Velo Quebec is sort of like our, our provincial bicycle organization like the they've been institutionalized they actually began at the same time as long to be secret and then day the think that was more militants and more the and also I think it's important to and one that basically we really wanted to change the world like they saw the bicycle as a way as a tool for enacting social change like it wasn't just about cycling, it was like really about changing the world.

00:23:11:05 - 00:23:34:06
Zvi Leve
So anyway, Velo Quebec has been like focused on cycling issues and they have an annual events riding around the island of Montreal, which has been a really big thing and very successful and as winter cycling increased the, they did a few winter events as well. So this photo I think was from the first events where as it happened, it was like -30 that day.

00:23:34:19 - 00:23:42:02
Zvi Leve
It was incredibly cold. Like the first two years that they did it, it was, it was insanely cold and and.

00:23:42:02 - 00:23:45:14
John Simmerman
That's my -30 Celsius, not Fahrenheit. Folks.

00:23:46:03 - 00:23:56:18
Zvi Leve
What they're they're pretty close to the same amounts, like it's well below zero like in my photo album I call it I call it subzero cycling. And it really was.

00:23:56:18 - 00:23:58:25
Séverine Le Page
Yeah. You have to have some leg warmers. Yeah.

00:23:59:11 - 00:24:22:21
Zvi Leve
Yeah. Normally like I would probably. And when it's that cold, it's actually clear, bright, sunny skies actually. And it's so cold that the even the ice sort of form like, it's not slippery, it's granular because it's so and this is the second year I remember and there were kids who came. It was really like like literally you cannot have any exposed surface on your body.

00:24:22:29 - 00:24:24:00
Zvi Leve
It's that cold.

00:24:24:14 - 00:24:49:11
John Simmerman
But your but you're moving and it creates you create a little bit of warmth on that. And I had the same conversation with Pekka to call from Oulu Finland and he's like, Oh yeah, we if, if you've got the infrastructure and if you maintain the infrastructure, well people will continue to ride. Yes, it's, it's bitter cold but guess what you know in their city, you know, 70% of the kids arrive to school by by.

00:24:50:08 - 00:25:09:15
Zvi Leve
Yeah well it's yeah it's it's you have to be careful. Actually, as you said, it is very easy to warm up, but you can get too hot as well. Can you go back to the previous picture? So that was this is the I think the third or fourth edition of the thing. This is the year that Clarence was there and it was in the it was in the evening and it was like integrated with our do fest.

00:25:09:15 - 00:25:15:01
Zvi Leve
And and it was actually quite a bit warmer, even though Clarence said it was freezing, but it was it was much more than Wait.

00:25:15:06 - 00:25:18:06
John Simmerman
Wait, wait, wait a minute. You guys had an igloo fest?

00:25:18:16 - 00:25:37:05
Zvi Leve
Yeah, we have an Igloo Fest, which is an outdoor dance rave party in the old port. And like in this particular ride, there were probably over a thousand people who rode to this. And during this thing, and as you can see, like, all kinds, there were people with kids. And like, the theme was like, really? It was part of the also the month, the Light festival.

00:25:37:05 - 00:25:46:08
Zvi Leve
So it was like really about bringing light to the city. Yeah. And it was a lot of fun. Like from, from my perspective is actually a pretty warm evening.

00:25:46:08 - 00:26:09:04
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, it's all relative when you get the like can look organizers but now other groups and other like you know it's not we're in the we had one in December is it overall I think you pulled that picture earlier where we were in dissolve and there was a bunch of like and they decorated their bikes and we rode around the city with decorated bikes just to, you know, to bring light into the city and to say, hey, you can cycle anytime.

00:26:09:04 - 00:26:26:00
Séverine Le Page
So it's the same. Just this is all comes from this event that we're organized and it's made day to day. But it's it's not it's it's like so much time to write it when you're all lit up and it's it's dark out and then you it's it's better than being a Christmas tree so it's it's a lot of fun.

00:26:26:21 - 00:26:53:23
John Simmerman
And I don't mean to be cavalier about riding in cold weather, riding in bad weather. I had the same conversation recently with some some of my Dutch audience about the fact that you do have to use some common sense. You know, they're when the winds are blowing people over, you know. So, I mean, yes, don't do dangerous activities if it's that cold that you're your skin's going to freeze on contact, you know, take appropriate measures.

00:26:54:04 - 00:27:18:03
John Simmerman
But my real message here is that we can actually handle much more than we think we can. And when we have the support of of a community to do some fun events and to have like the Facebook groups that, you know, give that social support network propping us up, we you know, we can surprise ourselves frequently and realize, oh, well, that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

00:27:18:12 - 00:27:35:08
John Simmerman
You know, originally, I didn't think I would ever ride in the wintertime in it's like, Oh, yeah, no, I mean, now that I've done it a few times. Piece of cake. Originally, I would think, Oh my gosh, I'm not going to ride in a rainstorm. It's like, Oh, I'm not made of sugar. I'm not I don't I'm not dissolving yet.

00:27:35:11 - 00:27:51:25
Séverine Le Page
And then to what we see happening now is people are organizing workshops to teach people how to ride winter bikes and and how to ride in winter. So you get prepared and they actually have people you can have a like a sponsor, so you can try it out with someone. And once you do it with someone, you teach it.

00:27:51:26 - 00:28:10:13
Séverine Le Page
It's easy to do. You're like, Oh, I can take this on myself. And and there's a new thing that happened in my Vero in another one is that the city there are well elected officials for our borough gave out money to people to put on their bikes for winter. So it's like what's the word in this documentary?

00:28:10:13 - 00:28:13:07
Zvi Leve
And it's subtree like this.

00:28:13:07 - 00:28:28:26
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, it's something you $200 in bike equipment so that you can get your bike ready to, to, to, to bike if you want to during the winter. So this was a new thing and it's such a great thing. And then they organize a bike ride to get people to try it out with them. And there are a lot of suffering.

00:28:29:04 - 00:28:32:26
Zvi Leve
It's you have to recognize the photo here with photos.

00:28:32:26 - 00:28:33:27
Séverine Le Page
This one where it was that.

00:28:34:02 - 00:28:43:13
Zvi Leve
It's Parker Hadzic. It's actually they also are, bro. They also had a program in the park where they would rent out winter bikes and stuff, let people try them out in the park.

00:28:43:26 - 00:28:49:15
Séverine Le Page
I didn't know this one. This is really cool. Yeah.

00:28:49:26 - 00:29:15:09
John Simmerman
Well, and that's I think that's so important too. I mean, what you're really talking about here are programs that help to incentivize and give a little subsidy to trying something different. And we you know, obviously, that's all the news right now at a global level of institutions and organizations and governments trying to subsidize the transformation over to electric vehicles.

00:29:15:09 - 00:29:21:06
John Simmerman
And it's like, hey, what about us? Help us out to, you know, get more people riding more often.

00:29:21:06 - 00:29:41:19
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, that's something we have I have a problem with because they they subsidize electric cars, like you say, but there's nothing for electric bikes or bikes in general. And we're just imagining this is something our group is trying to figure out. If people that come to immigrate to Canada were given like a bike once they land. And you say, Here, welcome to Canada, please feel welcome.

00:29:41:19 - 00:29:50:19
Séverine Le Page
And here are the bike paths. Here's a bike, feel comfortable, You won't need a car. We're going to assist you. This would be a great program. You just a better way to make incentive. I get.

00:29:51:14 - 00:30:16:14
Zvi Leve
Well. There are actually groups said to work specifically with new immigrants to Canada. And one of the things that I find quite fascinating with the winter cycling community is it actually is a lot of new arrivals, like there are a lot of women involved and a lot of new arrivals from not necessarily cold countries that people quite quickly, they see that cycling is easy and practical here and a lot of people don't want to stop just because it's the winter.

00:30:17:04 - 00:30:37:06
Zvi Leve
So like there's a lot of South Americans who do it. Few are Maghreb in their name, and there's cultural issues as well about riding a bike. Like certain cultures, owning a car is a status symbol. So like when they've arrived in Canada, like from their point of view, they've made it so they would not be seen. Riding a bike like that would be like, you know, and like.

00:30:37:11 - 00:30:44:01
Zvi Leve
So it's interesting the dynamic around how cycling is perceived in different communities, but the winter cycling community is really diverse.

00:30:44:01 - 00:31:02:22
Séverine Le Page
It's really like it's another good point. You bring the that there weren't a lot of women from my time that were cycling, but there's a program when they do connect on the loop, which is women teaching women how to cycle so that in I know in my neighborhood we had to do and it is stunning. It's really, really impressive what it's done for women.

00:31:02:22 - 00:31:16:01
Séverine Le Page
And one woman has said, I've discovered my freedom here that I would never have had in my country. And now I can ride my bike, I can go anywhere I want. It's just amazing. So, I mean, that's that's really cool. And that's also part of the part of the bike culture that we have here is really cool today.

00:31:16:21 - 00:31:39:14
John Simmerman
So we're here lingering at the critical mass ride, one of the critical mass rides that happened in the winter time. Let's go ahead and dive a little bit deeper into into critical mass and talk a little bit about what critical mass is, because I'm sure some of the viewers and listeners are going to be like, what? What are you talking about?

00:31:39:14 - 00:31:40:23
Séverine Le Page
Do you wanna go to?

00:31:41:00 - 00:32:00:00
Zvi Leve
I actually lived in the Bay Area back in the early years of critical mass when they were being done in San Francisco. Like the idea is basically that you have a critical mass of cyclists who take up the whole street space and basically show that we, you know, we, we are enough people that we, we deserve to have the space that we need.

00:32:00:13 - 00:32:24:11
Zvi Leve
And they would ride in San Francisco. They would ride around during rush hour, which in rush hour already is crazy. And they would like totally cause it's like incredible traffic, like chaos. And it was like very provocative. In Montreal. It's been much more tame. They sort of go sort of it's Friday afternoon, the last Friday of the month, and they go sort of after the rush hour downtown is already finished.

00:32:24:16 - 00:32:50:27
Zvi Leve
So it's fairly they don't really do a lot of disruption. It's more of a festive sort of thing where you just go and enjoy the space. This music, yeah, there's music and people like ride around together and and we the events have been sort of there have been a few like there were even a few party themed events like in the last few years, but they sort of stopped because the city seemed to be being sufficiently proactive in terms of responding to cyclists needs.

00:32:51:17 - 00:33:15:06
Zvi Leve
But now, like there's actually despite having a very seemingly pro bicycle administration, like people are still frustrated that things are not changing fast enough. And so they've been now they've come back basically every single month, even in the winter. The photo you have there is from last year, last month. So we were actually surprised that it turned out to be perfect weather.

00:33:15:06 - 00:33:33:25
Zvi Leve
It was snowing and the temperatures were just a bit below freezing. And we had probably a hundred people or so and we were surprised at how many turned up for that event. Yeah. So here is speaking to the infrastructure. It is getting better, but we need more. We need much more of this. This is actually on a main street and it's one way in one direction.

00:33:33:25 - 00:33:40:04
Zvi Leve
It's sufficiently wide for passing, but we need a lot more of this. We need it everywhere. Like our slogan is basically bike lanes everywhere.

00:33:41:11 - 00:34:03:08
John Simmerman
So, Sabrine, why don't you go ahead and address the the other thing that was mentioned there, which is getting more women riding and also being part of this movement, because it's it's just so frustrating how white and how male, you know, the movements have been in North America over the decades.

00:34:03:29 - 00:34:08:17
Séverine Le Page
Yeah. What do you mean? Do you want me to talk about the program that exist for women? Well.

00:34:09:01 - 00:34:35:07
John Simmerman
Just in general, I mean, we've got a wonderful, you know, photo here of, you know, somebody enjoying good infrastructure. So it doesn't need to be that program in particular. But just the fact of of the fact that getting more and more women engaged in and, you know, feeling like, hey, I've got infrastructure that's truly safe and inviting, I'm going to be able to do this, but also being part of the movement to get.

00:34:35:07 - 00:34:54:24
Zvi Leve
Can I just jump in for a second? After last night, we had a meeting of our is sort of the umbrella group for the various active mobility coalitions. And we the invited representative was the woman who's sort of responsible for cycling infrastructure at the city, like she was invited to come and talk to us in response to questions.

00:34:54:24 - 00:35:12:25
Zvi Leve
And she remarked in with with reason. That's like it's basically her and a bunch of women, middle aged white women. What? No middle aged white men around the table? No, no, no. Unfortunately, there were not a lot of women present. And and it's true. Like I.

00:35:13:29 - 00:35:31:14
Séverine Le Page
Get it. It's hard to get women involved. I mean, one of the reasons I'm the spokesperson or one of the spokespeople for us in Quebec is because there was an active decision to try and portray the fact that it's not just men, that white men that can ride bikes because it is off putting for women who are afraid to ride bikes.

00:35:31:14 - 00:35:49:16
Séverine Le Page
And so you have to be really you have to be a cowboy, you have to be careful. But like I like the fact that you have the picture up here to talk about the infrastructure because the race is something that has pulled in. A lot of women, making them feel safe because it's why this large they're not afraid to fall is most of the time it's lit up.

00:35:49:16 - 00:36:12:03
Séverine Le Page
And I guess it depends on the area where you are riding your bike in the. But it's just so much safer. I'm never afraid if I'm riding my bike with my kids that I'm going to slip and fall and get crushed by a car. It was infrastructure, like the roads untainted bike houses, just not the same thing. So when once we're going to have more of these things, more of these bike paths and it's supposed to be an integrated network, I think there's going to be even more women.

00:36:12:03 - 00:36:37:27
Séverine Le Page
They're to find it more comfortable and just easier. It's just like you said, we want it to be a Dutch way of things. It's not you ride your bike because it's the most practical thing to do because it's a you shouldn't have to think of that not being a mode of transportation. I mean, and this makes me think and I don't know if you want me to switch into this subject, but it makes me think as a little girl and telling you about that was killed while walking to school in early December.

00:36:38:06 - 00:36:57:23
Séverine Le Page
But one of the reasons and there have been mass protests all throughout the province, around schools, asking for safer school infrastructure and safer streets for people who get to go to school. And it's because that them were pointing the finger at the fact that parents are afraid for their kids to walk to school, so they drive them, creating more chaos.

00:36:57:23 - 00:37:15:24
Séverine Le Page
So it's like an infernal cycle. And what we're asking is for people to stop being afraid to let their kids walk to school by removing the cars so that kids feel safer to go to school. But like I said, it's all tied in and it's an echo to this stop, the Kinder movement that happened in Amsterdam as well.

00:37:15:24 - 00:37:24:21
Séverine Le Page
And it's biking, walking, active mobility. It's all or all these things that we just want for our kids to stand safe and to appropriate the city. Think.

00:37:25:14 - 00:37:42:11
John Simmerman
Yeah, why don't you go ahead and continue along the thread of talking about the rev? And I believe that there was a ghost bike that actually was removed. Can you can you talk a little bit about that and first explain what a ghost bike is? And then secondly, why would you remove it?

00:37:42:28 - 00:38:00:22
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, I started Ghost. I started in the US and goes bikes are installed when a cyclist has been killed by a driver of a vehicle and the language we use is really important. I'm always trying to remind myself that it's not a car that killed a cyclist, it's the driver of somebody in car because cars are not human.

00:38:01:09 - 00:38:28:03
Séverine Le Page
And and so we install ghost bikes and families allow it so that we can remember the person that was that died there and that the person died for no reason at all. Just because imperceptibly decision and had there been a separated bike paths had had there been, I don't know, extended curb curbs or whatever, anything that can make somebody feel safer, not in a car is what a person would not have died going about their daily life that way.

00:38:28:03 - 00:38:51:10
Séverine Le Page
So that's that's why we have ghost bikes. And in Montreal and around Montreal we have about 20 that ghost like they use installed in our association for ten years. And but in May 2021 we removed the ghost bike along the rest because that infrastructure now means nobody, no cyclist would die the way that metal blade died had it existed back then.

00:38:51:23 - 00:39:15:27
Séverine Le Page
And something really special about those bike. It's now in a museum in Quebec City. So I think just putting that in in in a larger perspective as a museum is also very interesting. Hopefully that means that we're changing our mindset about infrastructure and cycling and and transportation. But yeah, so that's, that's the REV definitely is definitely something that makes you feel safer unless there's cars riding in it.

00:39:15:27 - 00:39:27:07
Séverine Le Page
But when there's no cars in the rear, we feel very safe. So that it's actually fairly common because I mean, it looks so inviting. Why wouldn't somebody driving a car want to of see.

00:39:28:12 - 00:39:39:28
Zvi Leve
Anyone your area. It's so wide that it's actually there's some sections where it's actually wider than the street. Yeah. And in the car I can understand actually why a driver might be confused about where they're supposed to go.

00:39:40:19 - 00:39:59:03
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I've Clarence had a portion of his video where he, you know, pointed out I think he was like, look out why this is so. It's crazy. And again, here's here's you know, the previous one is the infrastructure is getting better and then a truck and also or maintenance.

00:39:59:16 - 00:40:00:06
Séverine Le Page
Exactly.

00:40:00:10 - 00:40:18:25
John Simmerman
So yeah it's got to be it's got to be both. You can't just have you just can't be done, you know, with building the good infrastructure. It has to be truly, truly good. And but then you also have to make sure that you have the other little things like the maintenance. And I shouldn't even call it little. I mean, that's crucial.

00:40:19:12 - 00:40:38:27
John Simmerman
And but then, you know, the additional things like bike parking and the other things that support these are all activity assets that cities can be thinking about and saying, oh, if I do these things that help support this culture of activity, that helps support this active mobility lifestyle, you know.

00:40:39:11 - 00:40:55:22
Séverine Le Page
And people look drive cars, I realize how much of a good idea it is for more people to be on bikes because more people on bikes means less cars. If you really need your car. So it's always a win win situation. But it's it's hard to grasp because we're told it is something you just have to start thinking about.

00:40:56:04 - 00:41:03:01
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And here is a great example of an inappropriate bike parking option.

00:41:03:25 - 00:41:08:20
Séverine Le Page
So yeah, but those are the actual bikes. That's a bike parking. It's installed that way, right.

00:41:09:04 - 00:41:31:05
Zvi Leve
Yeah. And the snow removal, like basically they're, the bikes are sort of like on the sidewalk and we actually Montreal does do an excellent job of snow removal and even on sidewalks like sidewalks are often cleared priority for in priority, as are the bike lanes. So the snow removal really is a crucial element in terms of making it a viable option, like it needs to be cleared for rush hour in the morning.

00:41:31:05 - 00:41:46:28
Zvi Leve
Basically, like if it's not, people are not going to use it. And now there's like sort of late pedestrians are sort of complaining that, oh, the bike path is cleared but the sidewalks not are. And which is true. Like my response is always if that's the case, just walking the bike in the yeah, welcome the bike path.

00:41:46:28 - 00:41:52:29
Séverine Le Page
But is this true because it's logic. I mean there's more there's less bike paths than there are sidewalks. So I mean, yeah.

00:41:53:27 - 00:42:10:00
Zvi Leve
But bike parking is a big problem in the city. Removes a lot of the on street bike parking for the winter. So parking options are fewer fewer in the winter and they get in the way of the snow removal things and like the that yellow vehicle on the on the left is what we use to sort of clear the sidewalks.

00:42:10:00 - 00:42:28:20
Zvi Leve
And if that hits a bike, it's going to like destroy it basically. So like there's a lot of in it and once it's destroyed it's often still attached to the pole. So I can fall over and get, you know, turn to a pretzel and can, you know, making it more problems. So in this photo, there's actually two dead bikes that I can see.

00:42:29:14 - 00:42:38:13
Séverine Le Page
There's there's a Facebook group for the for the snowplow plow. I killed my bike.

00:42:38:13 - 00:43:06:07
John Simmerman
I think there's a Facebook group for everything. The shifting gears towards like the residential areas and sidewalks and bike lanes through those areas, is that the same level of municipal government taking care of and responsibility of clearing those, the snow and the ice from that? Because most north American snowy cities it's the responsibility of the landowner.

00:43:07:05 - 00:43:07:14
Zvi Leve
Here is.

00:43:07:14 - 00:43:09:00
John Simmerman
To to clear the snow.

00:43:09:24 - 00:43:35:15
Zvi Leve
Here. It's in Minnesota. It's the borough government which actually assumes the operational responsibility. But yes, it is the borough that does that. And some are more proactive for pedestrians than others. But it's it's yeah, it's not like elsewhere. No, it's America. Although bike parking like the more residential area the more bike parking is a problem with these are paws for the paid parking so like the pole exists, but in a residential neighborhood you have street signs here and there.

00:43:35:15 - 00:43:49:15
Zvi Leve
But other than that, there aren't a lot of bike parking options. And we do have a lot of dense neighborhoods where people don't have a garage. So in these residential areas like on Square where 17 lives, there's probably not a lot of bike parking options.

00:43:50:04 - 00:44:10:17
Séverine Le Page
There's not enough We have to ask we have to make inquiries with the shop owners and everything so that they actually do install bike park in front of their shops because otherwise people never know where to meet their bikes. And it's an issue. If you don't have a place to leave your bike, you're not going to use your bike like I have an electric bike, which is cost more than I'd like to really think about that.

00:44:10:24 - 00:44:16:28
Séverine Le Page
I don't want to leave it anywhere. And unless there's really secure parking, I don't I don't do that anyway. So that's kind of a problem.

00:44:17:08 - 00:44:45:13
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad that you included this this particular image here, because one of the things that I think is really, really crucial for our our urban environments is shifting away from an addiction to these big box delivery package delivery situations. So cycle logistics, being able to do some bicycle related e-cargo bike delivery is huge. So I'm glad you included this.

00:44:46:04 - 00:44:49:23
Séverine Le Page
And there's a new center, the calibration center in the more city.

00:44:50:16 - 00:45:04:19
Zvi Leve
Yeah, there's a few. There's growing number like in my area, like you see the number of competing companies. Actually, this is a photo of a pure leader like it's a, it's one of the big, you know, delivery agencies. So it's becoming in a lot of area and they do work around.

00:45:05:06 - 00:45:05:14
John Simmerman
Yeah.

00:45:06:13 - 00:45:30:24
Séverine Le Page
And now with video content, one of the things that we've noticed is a lot of the cyclists killed are killed by huge trucks which are which are blind essentially because they don't have a large windows, they don't have the flat front, they don't have the lateral sides, which would prevent hitting someone. And so delivery trucks are a big problem in our city because our streets aren't that wide everywhere and there's too much parking.

00:45:31:06 - 00:45:38:15
Séverine Le Page
So if we could have if we could move on to electric delivery and electric bike delivery, that would be really, really cool.

00:45:38:15 - 00:45:41:00
John Simmerman
Yeah, we'd see less issues like this.

00:45:41:11 - 00:45:43:04
Séverine Le Page
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:45:44:08 - 00:46:05:05
Zvi Leve
And we actually as well, we have bicycle mounted police who also ride year round. So the people in the foreground there, those are actually police officers on bicycles. Yeah. But they actually do, they're not dedicated to cycling issues out there like regular police doing regular things, but they're just getting around by bicycle and they don't have a specific mandate to deal with.

00:46:05:05 - 00:46:09:28
Zvi Leve
Like this truck is actually stuck in the cycle path.

00:46:09:28 - 00:46:27:03
Séverine Le Page
So but when when people do block the cycle path where we're told we have to call the police, which kind of it seems like inadequate use of resources, you know, that's not what the police should be doing. And but it just it puts people in danger when they do use the bike path and they park in it and they block it and whatever.

00:46:27:03 - 00:46:45:20
Séverine Le Page
But and that's an action that they really cemented in November is a and I think I put the article in the list of the world earlier and they just they blocked the bike path The thing went something a group that in fact just a few years ago saying just give me 5 minutes will block your car just for 5 minutes all of this long just to protect our cyclists.

00:46:46:01 - 00:47:09:00
John Simmerman
Yes, I am speaking of another activist militant type of activity that that was a brilliant one that made its way around on social media is, oh, don't mind me. We're just going to block your your travel motor vehicle travel lane and until the bike path gets unblocked. And here we are, you know, this this is the key. Absolutely.

00:47:09:00 - 00:47:11:28
John Simmerman
It's got to be well-designed and it's got to be well maintained, period.

00:47:12:22 - 00:47:41:16
Zvi Leve
This is right in front of a school as well. So this is the crossing of two of, you know, inside psychopaths on two different directions. And and even there like there was actually this is a school that in fact it has bike psychopaths on every side. And they have produced too many cyclists in some ways. So it's crossed like the kids getting to the school like it's a bit it's a problem with the cyclists going like between the streets and the school.

00:47:42:04 - 00:48:12:25
John Simmerman
Yeah, well I saw recently that it like Patrick and Jasmine from oh the urbanity YouTube channel have moved back to Montreal and you mentioned it earlier, is that the urban form, the built form of Montreal is very conducive to be able to walk and bike and use transit. But you also made the comment that it seems as if the the municipality in the city is still trying to double down on an emphasis of making it easier to get around by car.

00:48:13:19 - 00:48:16:16
John Simmerman
It seems that those two things are very much in conflict.

00:48:17:04 - 00:48:27:22
Zvi Leve
Well, I wouldn't say that the local government is trying to do that, but they're afraid of making any waves and it's like they will inconvenience the.

00:48:27:22 - 00:48:31:16
John Simmerman
Oh, we can't possibly inconvenience the motor vehicle drivers.

00:48:32:08 - 00:48:57:25
Zvi Leve
Well, it's really the parking, I would say, which is sort of like the political kryptonite, like parking like we do. Montreal actually has a lot of one way streets where we make them two ways for cyclists, which is wonderful. Like this is sort of a reverse direction psychopath. It's one way for cars and even big streets, like there's been some pretty major streets that have been converted to one way for cars and you have a wide cycle path on each side for the cyclists that is fine like that that we're able to do.

00:48:58:15 - 00:49:11:07
Zvi Leve
But heaven forbid you should try to take parking off of that street bike. And that's that's really what is causing the the biggest challenge is how to deal with coming up with other alternatives for parking.

00:49:11:24 - 00:49:33:00
Séverine Le Page
Well, it's also because parking costs nothing in Montreal and people have no idea. It's just so I mean, like I said, I have five kids and sometimes we try to measure how what's the best way for us to go downtown? Taking the metro is important for our family, whereas if we take our car and we just park it for 2 hours, it's going to cost you like $5 for all seven of us.

00:49:33:02 - 00:49:55:25
Séverine Le Page
So I don't, you know, have to the incentive for it to be really unfun to take your car has to be there too. So I really think by parking a car parking is really not not expensive enough. And it's because it's all we have to pay for parking all the time, not just from time to time, but because I really like I like the expression you said political to Right.

00:49:56:28 - 00:50:24:18
Zvi Leve
But it's hard to see what the my the logo in the upper right hand corner of my images is community parking Actually, like this is one of my pet projects where actually particularly in neighborhoods like Sovereign's, which is a residential neighborhood like we need alternative options that are not on the street and you can actually create like small mobility hubs and like we need to create other options to reappropriate the street as public space and reallocate street space differently.

00:50:24:26 - 00:50:48:26
Zvi Leve
You know, you have more loading on the delivery zones like deliveries are huge problem. Like the trucks don't have anywhere to park when there are you know bringing products and the all too often they blocked the cycle path because that's often the only option they have really. It's either the cycle path or the traffic path. So we need to we need to like recognize that parking is an integral part of our mobility ecosystem for parking for bicycles as well.

00:50:49:07 - 00:50:53:02
Zvi Leve
Like it's just as important for parking a bicycle as it is parking a car.

00:50:54:03 - 00:51:16:03
John Simmerman
And so funny how parking, you know, comes up so frequently. One of my all time favorite episodes that I've produced is with Don Shoup, the author of The High Cost of Free Parking. And and we joke about that. It's just like it's so integral to everything. And as you mentioned, as a it's it's like this is this political kryptonite that's there.

00:51:16:24 - 00:51:48:20
John Simmerman
But a couple weeks ago, I mean, the big news was, you know, Amsterdam opening another seven spot parking garage for bikes, you know, and very, very convenient, very, very beautiful and really trying to make it easy and comfortable and safe and welcoming for people to be able to use their bike to get to transit and then go on to their their ultimate destination.

00:51:48:26 - 00:51:50:13
John Simmerman
So incredibly important.

00:51:50:24 - 00:52:04:17
Zvi Leve
But I add an even more important thing that Amsterdam is doing, as well as they're systematically removing on street parking. Yes. Yes. They added 7000 bike parking, but they remove every single year where, of course, the 2000 on street parking places.

00:52:04:24 - 00:52:12:08
John Simmerman
Yeah, I think they're on en route for their most recent initiative. They're trying to remove 12,000, I believe so. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:13:04 - 00:52:34:02
Séverine Le Page
We're not close to that here. We're not close. I mean, we simply, you know, maybe enough since Montreal is an island, maybe another way for for it to be harder to park would be to maybe have calls on our bridges. I know that's another hard decision, but we have to start thinking about limiting the number of cars we have in our city, because recent reports have shown how, what?

00:52:34:11 - 00:52:48:25
Séverine Le Page
And I won't even try to get into the numbers, but the number of cars every year that we add on to our streets is just incredible. And they're larger, too. So, I mean, like you said, if we remove the parking, maybe people will think that's complicated. Maybe I should get rid of my car because it's just it's a nuisance.

00:52:48:25 - 00:52:49:00
Séverine Le Page
So.

00:52:49:09 - 00:53:17:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Sabrina, I'm going to have you speak to to this particular slide as a parent of five. And one of the things that I find most encouraging about the Dutch system, the experience that they have, they've built at this point, and in large part also what we're seeing in Copenhagen and several other critical cities where it's truly, truly safe and inviting for for kids to be able to get around again all to Finland.

00:53:17:11 - 00:53:33:15
John Simmerman
A great example is the fact that kids can then become free range kids. They you have that ability because you're able to encourage that next generation. They're embraced, they're inspired. They can be able to do that. Speak a little bit to that from from your perspective as a parent?

00:53:34:08 - 00:53:51:05
Séverine Le Page
Well, I actually have one of my my children go to school seven kilometers from her house. He goes by bike and he actually really hates it. Wouldn't take the car now. And because it gives him the freedom, he knows the city better than any of my other kids. He knows how to get anywhere. He was confident and he started doing this when he was 11.

00:53:51:05 - 00:54:13:10
Séverine Le Page
So, I mean, this is something I didn't have that confidence when I was his age. I took the metro, but I didn't know much else about traveling around the city. He knows how to avoid conflict. He knows how to deal with intersections. He knows exactly how to time his like to know what speed he should write. These are all just fun things to to know and learn when you're riding a bike and it is freedom.

00:54:13:10 - 00:54:32:01
Séverine Le Page
And when we talk about when they get adults in, they never none of them want to have their driver's license because they don't see the point to know how to get around. We have a bike. That's all we need. We can walk, we can run, we can do these things. And I think that's great. You know, we talk about the fact that kids don't move around and I don't know what these than riding your bike to go somewhere.

00:54:32:01 - 00:54:54:18
Séverine Le Page
I mean you teach Brazil and stone so I love that my kids feel confident on the secure bike path to go. I'm always a bit nervous when they choose to go in the street and not use the security. Right. But it is a beautiful town. You know, I see the other side, but I don't hear bike. I mean, I go, it is really secure that they are comfortable and safe on them.

00:54:55:15 - 00:55:09:16
John Simmerman
That I know for the Dutch children, it's right around 11 or 12 where they actually have sort of their proficiency exams of being able to demonstrate that they can get around the city on their own on bike. It's just amazing.

00:55:09:29 - 00:55:28:05
Séverine Le Page
And we have we have a similar program here called Cyclist LRT, which is also with Quebec and schools choose to have the program and then you have teachers that come in and the teachers sit in fourth and fifth graders. How to know the road rules when you're on the bike, how to process securely, how to how to ride your bike.

00:55:28:05 - 00:55:40:05
Séverine Le Page
And some of them learned that they get loaned bikes to do that and then it encourages their their parents. Hey, Mom, Dad, can you come and take me on the bike? And so it's all it's all integrated and it's a great, great program.

00:55:40:23 - 00:55:59:28
John Simmerman
Yeah. So for your final word, talk a little about, you know, this experience that you've seen over the decades or over the years there in Montreal. And, you know, the this transformation and this ability to keep pedaling through these obstacles?

00:56:00:29 - 00:56:18:03
Zvi Leve
Well, one of the things that's interesting is a lot of kids, small kids, do like to ride to school. And in in in Quebec, like our school system is primary school and secondary school. There's no middle level. And usually the secondary schools are bigger and farther away. So there's a steep drop off in terms of active transportation to schools.

00:56:18:20 - 00:56:47:28
Zvi Leve
And my daughter as well, because of COVID actually. So so a lot of kids, they discover public transportation that sort of becomes their their opening to discover a new world and the like. Literally from the age of 11 or 12, they start going everywhere by public transportation on their own because of COVID. My daughter actually returned to cycling like she cycled a lot when she was little and she returned to cycling and basically she now appreciates it like me, like it's just practical for her.

00:56:47:28 - 00:57:09:03
Zvi Leve
Things like her boyfriend lives like 20 kilometers away from us, and then they ride their bikes to like, see one another. And she rides to college every day now. And she she has ridden in the snow like quite a bit and like, she's like, I guess you could she's on the verge of becoming a winter cyclist, you know, So But she has, like, ridden.

00:57:09:23 - 00:57:31:05
Zvi Leve
Yeah. Like her friends were actually surprised that she she didn't she didn't show up by bike but in this photo is like you see a lot of young kids like really want to ride and in this particular case the car is actually parked too into the bike path. So this bike path, normally the snow is better cleared. But in this one section, because the cars were didn't leave enough space, they weren't able to clear the snow.

00:57:31:11 - 00:57:55:01
Zvi Leve
So the father is actually literally like pushing, like pedaling, helping his son to pedal through the back. Yeah, but but like, you see a lot of little kids who want to ride bikes. And I think this is a good metaphor. You know, it's you know, there's still it's not a direct path to improvement. Like things are definitely getting better, but there are still obstacles along the way.

00:57:55:01 - 00:58:02:00
Zvi Leve
And like, we need to, you know, keep pedaling through them to really transform the way people appreciate moving in the city.

00:58:03:10 - 00:58:33:11
John Simmerman
Well said. Well, said something for you for your final word. I'd like you to just two things, actually. One is Xavier just mentioned, you know, his daughter continuing to ride or, you know, picking up, riding again and riding into into her teens, into college. That's one of the biggest challenges that I see in cities globally, except for the Netherlands, is that the the ridership levels of girls really drops off once they get into their teen years.

00:58:33:28 - 00:58:43:22
John Simmerman
I'd love to have you sort of address that from your perspective. And then finally, anything else that we haven't talked about that you want to make sure we leave the audience with?

00:58:44:22 - 00:59:02:10
Séverine Le Page
Well, well, in regards to the teen ridership, I personally all my my, my kids are boys and it's just my last one. It is my only girl. But I just I find I don't I don't see why they would stop riding their bikes now, now that they've learned. And I think if I had a girl, it's the same thing.

00:59:02:19 - 00:59:20:21
Séverine Le Page
It's like like she said, it's convenient and it's the fact that everything's so safe and secure and and well, well equipped. In the more bike lanes we have, the more secure bike lanes we have and the more room we take away from cars, the narrow the streets and and helps cars reduce their speed makes it safer for everyone.

00:59:20:21 - 00:59:39:00
Séverine Le Page
So I think, you know, ridership should be on the up if as long as they start when they're kids but just not I just I'm amazed that there is a bike culture in our city. That's true if you look at all the events all year round that take place, that that can form into young people's minds and to the fact that.

00:59:39:02 - 00:59:53:03
Séverine Le Page
But riding a bike is a possibility here and it's a choice that you had now has. And I'm not sure I heard that 20, 30 years ago when when I moved back to work. But if I was growing up now, I think you totally do see why not ride a bike. I mean, it's one of the most viable options.

00:59:53:03 - 01:00:14:10
Séverine Le Page
And there's so many things fun associated with it with that, with the critical mass with there, with all the types of bike rides and your burros and everything and other biking related events. Her and I think we're pretty lucky. But like you said, you have to see the positives about it in Montreal is on is up and coming and going to keep going through its obstacles and and finding better ways to the title.

01:00:14:29 - 01:00:23:06
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah. I want to give you a quick moment to talk about two organizations that you sent my way so that this particular group.

01:00:24:00 - 01:00:44:26
Séverine Le Page
This is in my neighborhood. So this is my husband's spokesperson for this one. And we just we started this about ten years ago, and it was our neighborhood active mobility. And it's been so popular that a second group has has been born in our neighborhood as well. So we're a very active mobility neighborhood and we're the furthest away from the downtown.

01:00:44:26 - 01:01:05:19
Séverine Le Page
We're ten kilometers out, but we're starting to get bike paths. And what's really cool is there's a neighboring group which has been walking a lot, and they follow us and they're trying to follow our lead in asking us how they how we we might that we were able to mobilize and get by us. And after 40 years of not getting bike paths, they're starting they're getting their bike paths this year as well.

01:01:05:19 - 01:01:24:25
Séverine Le Page
So so that's that's fine with me. We just try to gather people and do a wee survey and news and find bike shop around the world. And then time obviously is what I am one of the groups I'm the spokesperson for. And we our goal is to not exist is that our motto is we don't want to exist anymore.

01:01:24:25 - 01:01:47:15
Séverine Le Page
We do exist. And we're there for families and for cyclists and for the community. And it's important to remember cyclists that have died. But it's it's just so heartbreaking every time we do install a bike. And actually this year we installed a plaque for a woman who was killed 40 years ago and her best friend contact because she was still so heartbroken about the fact that her friend had died and she wanted to remember her in this way.

01:01:47:15 - 01:02:00:11
Séverine Le Page
So we didn't sell a plaque for her and so there is it's a very important group, and I think it does reach people, but it's incredibly sad and I just hope we don't exist. Sometimes we'll just be in the museum.

01:02:01:04 - 01:02:05:11
John Simmerman
Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. All right, Debbie, final, final word from you, sir.

01:02:06:10 - 01:02:39:24
Zvi Leve
I think it's interesting. A growing number of smaller cities in Quebec are actually starting to be perhaps more progressive than Montreal, I think. I think in Montreal in some ways, I think the city now is doing too much consultation. And I think the city, like we understand enough what needs to be done and and they should just do it like they don't need to every single time that they like there there's a psychopath very, very near house that it was rolled out literally in two weeks during COVID as a sort of temporary solution.

01:02:40:12 - 01:02:58:20
Zvi Leve
And it was unbelievably successful and like everyone was like really shocked and they had like it was like very perverse. They had to take it away because it was provincial funding for COVID. And if they left it in place, the city would have to pay for it. So they had to take it away because they didn't want to pay, they didn't want to.

01:02:58:27 - 01:03:04:06
Zvi Leve
Whatever expense. So anyway, they're bringing it back now, but they sort of reopened the consultation once again.

01:03:04:24 - 01:03:05:18
Séverine Le Page
And really.

01:03:06:13 - 01:03:22:21
Zvi Leve
Know it is coming back. But like a lot of people are, I went through the consultation and a lot of people are very mad because, yes, the city is saying it's coming back and we're only just talking to you for details. So it's like people are very like some people are upset about this.

01:03:22:21 - 01:03:49:09
John Simmerman
I think that is a really, really good thing to say. You made two very, very important points. Is that smaller communities can be more nimble. They can actually move, you know, quicker oftentimes because they may not have the same level of of bureaucracy that's there. The other thing that's very, very important about what you said is that at some point in time, do we really have to have endless consultations and open houses and meetings?

01:03:49:24 - 01:04:10:18
John Simmerman
And I don't know the right answer to that, because every single every single community, every single city, every single country, you know, has a different kind of culture to this. We were talking a little bit about Mayor Hidalgo in in the things that she's doing in Paris, and she's basically like, this is my mandate. This is what I'm doing.

01:04:10:18 - 01:04:17:13
John Simmerman
This is the leadership, this is what I'm doing. If you've got a problem with that, tough, you'll adapt. We have to do this. This is.

01:04:17:17 - 01:04:18:15
Zvi Leve
Sort of what we have to do.

01:04:18:18 - 01:04:41:25
John Simmerman
This sense of urgency here. But that's not necessarily going to fly in in every in every, you know, location. I know here in Austin, Texas, I mean, literally every single project, every single street has to have that continual communication. And I get it on both sides. I get it on on the desire to be able to want to move, you know, quicker with a sense of urgency.

01:04:42:02 - 01:05:02:04
John Simmerman
But I also get the sense that in our democracies we have this sense we don't want to feel like we're losing our sense of agency of what's happening to us. Because if they if we have that kind of feel like it's happening to us. So I don't I don't have the right answer there. I'm just kind of like acknowledging you just brought that up and it's so it's relevant.

01:05:02:18 - 01:05:08:25
Séverine Le Page
Like someone said, you don't have that many consultations to build sidewalks. Why should you have consultations to build like that?

01:05:09:08 - 01:05:20:25
John Simmerman
Or more importantly, you know, let's get get out of the active transportation realm, because here in Austin, we do have that many meetings about building sidewalks, but we don't have that many meetings about building an additional car lane.

01:05:21:17 - 01:05:21:26
Zvi Leve
Right.

01:05:22:22 - 01:05:51:02
John Simmerman
Craziness. Thank you both so very much. This has been an absolute joy and pleasure and I can't wait to get back up there. My last visit was 2018 and it was for the summertime celebration events that the Kodak does, the Tour de Ville and tours tours La la Neue and Tour de Ville. Absolutely. You know, two fun celebration activities of the bicycle in the summertime.

01:05:51:06 - 01:05:56:24
John Simmerman
But I do need to get up there in the wintertime and check out some of your fun events. Again, thank you so very much to you both.

01:05:57:12 - 01:05:58:01
Séverine Le Page
Thank you, Don.

01:05:58:17 - 01:05:58:28
Zvi Leve
Thank you.

01:06:00:01 - 01:06:23:12
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning and I hope you enjoyed this episode was The End Submarine. And if you did, please remember, give it a thumbs up, leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you. Subscribe here to the Active Towns Channel. Just click on that subscription button down below and ring the notifications bell right next to it so you can customize your notification preferences for all the new content coming your way.

01:06:24:01 - 01:06:48:02
John Simmerman
And again, I really appreciate you tuning in. It means so much to me. And also if you are enjoying this channel and getting some value out of this content that I'm creating, please consider becoming an active town's ambassador and supporting me out on Patreon. Buy me a coffee or even making donations to the nonprofit. The links are down below in the video description and in the show notes.

01:06:48:02 - 01:07:17:27
John Simmerman
I really do appreciate any and all support that you're able to provide. It helps keep me going Well, until next time. This John signing off by wishing you much activity. Health and happiness cheers and again sending a huge thank you to all my active town's ambassadors supporting the channel on patron buy me a coffee YouTube super. Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the active town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.

01:07:18:08 - 01:07:27:07
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much.